Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiJournals: A proposal to become a new sister project

2019-06-03 Thread Thomas Townsend
What is the objection in principle to ND licencing?  If you publish a paper
detailing your experiments on apricot kernels as a cure for cancer with a
conclusion that they are completely worthless, and give it a BY licence, I
can now "remix" it, that is publish exactly the same material, except with
a new conclusion that apricot kernels are a complete cure for cancer,
provided that I attribute it to you.  Is that what you want, in any sense
at all?

The Turnip

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 at 19:55, James Heilman  wrote:

> It already is Plan-S compliant :-)
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_S#Licensing_and_rights
>
> Plan-S unfortunately is looking at allowing ND content.
>
> James
>
> On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 8:14 AM Mister Thrapostibongles <
> thrapostibong...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thomas
> >
> > Is it intended that the journals should be Plan-S compliant?
> >
> > Thrapostibongles
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 9:01 AM Thomas Shafee 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Wikipedians,
> > >
> > > Over the last few years, the WikiJournal User Group
> > >  has been
> > building
> > > and testing a set of peer reviewed academic journals on a mediawiki
> > > platform. The main types of articles are:
> > >
> > >- Existing Wikipedia articles submitted for external review and
> > feedback
> > >(example )
> > >- From-scratch articles that, after review, are imported to
> Wikipedia
> > (
> > >example )
> > >- Original research articles that are not imported to Wikipedia
> > (example
> > ><
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_of_Medicine/Acute_gastrointestinal_bleeding_from_a_chronic_cause:_a_teaching_case_report
> > > >
> > >)
> > >
> > > *Proposal: WikiJournals as a new sister project
> > > *
> > >
> > > From a Wikipedian point of view, this is a complementary system to
> > Featured
> > > article review, but bridging the gap with external experts
> > >  >,
> > > implementing established scholarly practices
> > > <
> https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_User_Group/Ethics_statement
> > >,
> > > and generating citable, doi-linked publications
> > > .
> > >
> > > Please take a look and support/oppose/comment!
> > > All the best,
> > > Thomas Shafee
> > >
> > > ps, We are attempting to improve awareness within the existing
> wikimedia
> > > community, so feel free to share with others.
> > > ___
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>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiJournals: A proposal to become a new sister project

2019-06-04 Thread Thomas Townsend
On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 18:46, James Heilman  wrote:

> Wiki Journals use CC BY SA. We do not support or want to us ND as that
> would prevent translation into other languages. That is why I disagree with
> Plan S's move to allow ND.
>

So part of the offer is that an author's article may be translated into
other languages without the original author having any say in the process?
 Surely you would not permit your own articles to be republished in another
language with your name still on them and your having no control over what
the translation says in your name?

The Turnip
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-17 Thread Thomas Townsend
Am I right in thinking that this email, containing a long account of
the alleged poor treatment of the Treasurer of WMBE, referred to
throughout in the third person, was in fact written by that person?

The Turnip

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 10:00, Romaine Wiki  wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> On Saturday 15 June 2019 Wikimedia Belgium had its annual General Assembly
> in Brussels.
>
> *New board*
> Two board members have indicated to step down:
> * Afernand74
> * SPQRobin
>
> We thank them for their work and valuable input in the past years!
> They remain available for advice to the board.
>
> Two board members were up for re-election after their previous terms ended.
> Both board members have been re-elected without any votes against them, and
> they will keep serving Wikimedia Belgium in their roles.
> * Geertivp - president
> * Romaine - treasurer
>
> One new board member has been elected without any votes against.
> * Taketa - long term Wikipedia editor and organiser of various activities
>
> Welcome Taketa!
>
> The rest of the board remains the same and the board continues the work and
> development of our chapter.
>
>
> *Evaluation behaviour WMF*
> As board we have the obligation to inform the General Assembly and other
> stakeholders about the developments with our chapter, both the good
> developments as well as the bad developments.
>
> A year ago, with our previous General Assembly, we were hopeful to resolve
> the issues we then had with on other organisation in the movement, the
> Wikimedia Foundation. Sadly we had to inform the General Assembly that
> instead of improvements, the behaviour of multiple individuals from the
> Wikimedia Foundation is below any standard. This concerns one member of the
> grants team and multiple members of the Trust and Safety team, as well as
> their supervisors.
>
> On request of the Trust & Safety team no names are mentioned. Below is a
> summary of what happened.
>
>
> *Case 1*
> In April 2017 the treasurer of Wikimedia Belgium (Romaine) spoke with our
> new grants staff member from the Wikimedia Foundation as WMBE was scheduled
> to change from successful project grants in 2017 and earlier years to
> Simple Annual Plan grants. During this meeting the plan for WMBE in 2018
> was proposed and was fine for the grants staff member. In the Summer of
> 2017 this had been worked out, and with an online call our annual plan was
> considered fine. With the final submission in October 2017, our annual
> grants proposal was reviewed by the grants staff member from WMF, had some
> minor remarks we fixed, and was considered to be excellent.
>
> In December 2017 we were informed that our grant request (suddenly) was, to
> summarise, complete wrong. It contained factual errors (like facts do not
> matter), inconsistencies, the comment that Wikimedia France and Wikimedia
> Netherlands could take everything over in Belgium, suggesting that Belgium
> has no culture (this is a serious insult to us), and much more.
> (For your reference: Wikimedia Belgium had over 90 events and activities in
> 2017, including a photo contest, education program, GLAM program with
> content donations, workshops and edit-a-thons, and more.)
>
> It raised us a lot of questions, which we asked, but our grants member of
> WMF refused to seriously answer them.
>
> Even with our lack of information and received insults, we tried to be
> constructive and before Christmas we proposed to the grants staff member
> that we would re-write during the Christmas holidays our annual plan (as
> the staff member had said many times we could improve it). With the e-mail
> following from the grants member of WMF this proposal was not rejected. So
> during the two weeks of the Christmas holidays we spent many days, together
> with the help from another experienced chapter representative, re-writing
> our annual plan. After the Christmas holidays, we were ready, and the
> response from the grants member from WMF was then that the re-written
> version could not be taken into account...
>
> After some further e-mails with this staff member we concluded as WMBE mid
> January 2018 that a collaboration with this individual from WMF is
> impossible and we banned this individual from ever contacting us again and
> we never communicated ever with this person again.
>
> The supervisor of this staff member has been informed by us about what
> happened, and refused to even investigate the situation.
>
> A colleague from the staff member took over and we received our budget for
> 2018. Later during 2018 and 2019 this WMF staff member helped us very well
> with questions, provided useful feedback and the annual plan for 2019 which
> was approved. We are now happy with this collaboration.
>
>
> *Case 2*
> During the Wikimedia Conference in April 2018 we still had many questions
> and our treasurer spoke with various other affiliates if they had advice,
> good practices, etc etc, so that we could improve our future annual plans.
> Instead of 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

2019-06-20 Thread Thomas Townsend
Amir

May we not know the real names of the committee members, as opposed to
their pseudonyms?  Surely that is necessary, both as a matter of
general principle, and specifically in case it were ever to turn out
that a member of the committee might be involved in a complaint.

The Turnip

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 10:39, Amir Sarabadani  wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
> The deadline for the public feedback was yesterday. Some objections have
> raised but committee decided not to change the structure of committee and
> its candidates. It means the new committee with the given members starts
> serving as of today until 19 June 2020.
>
> Please join me on thanking Nuria and Rosalie for their service and welcome
> Tonina and MusikAnimal to the main members of the committee.
>
> Best
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM Amir Sarabadani  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > The committee has finished selecting new members and the new committee
> > candidates are (In alphabetical order):
> >
> >- Amir Sarabadani
> >- Lucie-Aimée Kaffee
> >- MusikAnimal
> >- Tonina Zhelyazkova
> >- Tony Thomas
> >
> > And auxiliary members will be (In alphabetical order):
> >
> >- Huji
> >- Matanya
> >- Nuria Ruiz
> >- Rosalie Perside
> >- Tpt
> >
> > You can read more about the members in [0]
> >
> > The changes are:
> > * Nuria and Rosalie are moving from main member to auxilary members
> > * MusikAnimal is moving from auxilary member to main
> > * Tonina Zhelyazkova is joining the main members
> >
> > This is not the final structure. According to the CoC [1], the current
> > committee publishes the new members and call for public feedback for *six
> > weeks* and after that, the current committtee might apply changes to the
> > structure based on public feedback.
> >
> > Please let the committee know if you have any concern regarding the
> > members and its structure until *19 June 2019* and after that, the new
> > committee will be in effect and will serve for a year.
> >
> > [0]:
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee/Members/Candidates
> > [1]:
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee#Selection_of_new_members
> >
> > Amir, On behalf of the Code of Conduct committee
> > Best
> >
> >
>
> --
> Amir (he/him)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

2019-06-23 Thread Thomas Townsend
Amir

> The committee is a body of volunteers and they can't be forced to disclose
> their real identities. There's no such policy in the CoC

That does not appear to be correct.  The CoC policy requires that the
volunteer committee members identify themselves *to the Foundation*.

The Turnip

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-06-15 Thread Thomas Townsend
On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 at 18:39, Dan Rosenthal  wrote:
>
> There is no "very basic principle of Human Rights and dignity" to be free
> from the presumption of guilt by others.  You may be confusing Article 11
> of the UHDR, but this applies explicitly only to "penal offenses."  Unless
> Fram is getting locked up in prison for his actions, let's drop the absurd
> hyperbole that this is somehow a human rights violation.


The Foundation has explicitly stated at
https://wikimediafoundation.org/advocacy/ that
"everyone has the right to seek and share knowledge." and at
https://wikimediafoundation.org/2019/05/23/wikimedia-foundation-petitions-the-european-court-of-human-rights-to-lift-the-block-of-wikipedia-in-turkey/
that the ability to contribute to Wikipedia is a matter for the
European Court of Human Rights.

So it seems that Dan is incorrect -- this *is* a human rights matter.
All the more reason, then, to have it supervised by the competent
professionals of the Foundation.

The Turnip

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banning real identities

2019-07-05 Thread Thomas Townsend
Alphos

You don;t explain why being "doxxed" was a bad thing for you, or
indeed what the downside is for anyone,  You simply assert that it is
a Bad Thing and must not happen.  Would you like to give your reasons
for those assertions?

The Turnip

On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 15:12, Alphos OGame  wrote:
>
> I was doxxed by someone in the movement a few years ago, and I cannot stress 
> this enough : WE MUST NOT DOXX PEOPLE.
> It doesn't matter how good our intentions are.
> It doesn't matter how bad these people are.
> We as a community choose to block, ban, lock, whether or not globally, the 
> accounts of people we deem unable to contribute.
> We must not disclose unilaterally after the fact the identity of a 
> contributor. And not only because we may well have no clue about it. It may 
> get them jailed for the wrong reasons. It may get them harmed for their 
> genuine contributions.
> That MUST NOT (rfc2119 [1]) be how we handle things.
> Once again, I cannot stress this enough.
>
> Do not do this. This is a bad idea on so many levels. Pretty much all of 
> them, really.
>
> Alphos
>
> [1] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
>
> Le 2 juil. 2019 à 08:17, Thomas Townsend  a écrit :
>
> >> Why do you think this is important and what real purpose do you think this
> >> will serve?
> >
> > A good question.  The stated object of global bans is "to help assure
> > the safety of users of the Wikimedia projects and/or assist in
> > preventing prohibited behavior that hinders dialogue, project
> > development and expansion".  Identifying those persons banned as fully
> > as possible helps to achieve that assurance and protect the community.
> >
> > The Turnip.
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-07-05 Thread Thomas Townsend
Nathan

> Yes, the environment is full of toxic people. This has always been true,
> and yet it exists. You want a revolution to make Wikipedia a friendlier
> place? It isn't going to happen. There is no such place, at least not with
> the critical mass of human participants that this project needs. Have you
> been to a city? Have you seen Reddit or 4chan? Participated in a national
> election? If so, do you really think that the WMF is going to institute
> some sort of culture program that will solve problems inherent in human
> nature?

Nathan

I think we in agreement that people en masse rarely organise
themselves effectively to achieve a common goal.  The examples you
cite, together with Wikipedia and the other projects demonstrate that
well.  The solution, then is not for some attempt to tweak the culture
so that the desired effective organisation happens spontaneously, but
for an external structure to be imposed.   There are models for
organising tens of thousands of people to create, curate and
disseminate knowledge -- universities, schools, libraries, academies,
leaned societies, ...

The Turnip

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] An updated design for the Wikimedia Foundation website

2019-07-11 Thread Thomas Townsend
Andy

> What kind of accessibility audit was undertaken on the new design?

You might like to look at Phabricator ticket T6845 concerning an
accessibility issue dating back to 2006 which remains unresolved.

The Turnip

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-06-29 Thread Thomas Townsend
Astonishing the amount of speculation on this list about what might
have happened and who might or might not be telling the truth.
Considering that nobody posting here has any information about the
facts of the case, would it not be better to cease from speculation
which can have no positive aspects but will certainly be offensive or
even defamatory to named individuals?

The Turnip

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 13:53, Fæ  wrote:
>
> WMF T will not do anything about off-wiki harassment either, apart
> from banning on-wiki users or offering to block your account as the
> target of harassment.
>
> There's a lot that can be improved around harassment and civility, but
> honestly, the WMF has no special answers or powers, they do not claim
> to be experts. As someone who has had blackmail and death threats,
> advice from the WMF was a lot worse than advice I had from the either
> the police or victim support.
>
> Though my experience is mostly dated, the WMF gave me bad advice which
> significantly delayed me from contacting the police, and I cannot
> recommend that a target of harassment put their faith in the WMF if
> they are targeted with harassment. The only reason I reported some
> nasty transphobic threats targeting me earlier this year was to ensure
> that the WMF had them logged, in case there was a wider pattern of
> abuse against other LGBT+ Wikipedians. WMF T have given me no useful
> feedback or updates on my own case in the months since.
>
> I am very sorry to say this so bluntly, but from personal experience
> though WMF senior management write a lot of nice soft words about
> harassment and safe spaces, in practice a user being targeted is
> better off having private chats on IRC with volunteer stewards and
> checkusers that they trust, rather than WMF employees.
>
> P.S. I encourage the use of the words "target of harassment". Being
> labelled as a "victim" which puts the focus on you just because you
> made a complaint, rather than the troll harassing others, is not
> helpful.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 13:29, Isaac Olatunde  wrote:
> >
> > I have seen a known user attacking me on one of Wikipedia's criticism site
> > during my ArbCom case on the English Wikipedia but when it was report, they
> > said there is nothing they can do about off-wiki attacks/harassment. That
> > event alone gives me an impression that the English Wikipedia community
> > cannot protect anyone from off-wiki harassment. Why would people feel
> > comfortable to report a case of harassment to a community or group that can
> > not protect them?
> >
> > Isaac
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 8:33 AM Pine W  >
> > > I think that I understand the GamerGate reference. A decentralized swarm 
> > > of
> > > harassment can be a major problem, and in this case I am concerned (I
> > > haven't attempted to review the evidence) that at least one person is 
> > > being
> > > hounded off-wiki regarding their alleged involvement in this matter in a
> > > way that would receive a firm response by ENWP administrators if the same
> > > hounding was happening on ENWP.
> > >
> > > Fear of being hounded can discourage people from reporting problems.
> > >
> > > On English Wikipedia we have some administrators who are willing to make
> > > politically difficult blocks, and we have an arbitration committee that 
> > > has
> > > been willing to review alleged misconduct by high profile people including
> > > administrators, but I'm not sure that all wikis have a sufficient number 
> > > of
> > > competent and good faith administrators to address allegations of
> > > misconduct, especially misconduct by people who have relatively high 
> > > levels
> > > of local political support.
> > >
> > > Even more challenging to moderate are off-wiki activities in places which
> > > do not honor ENWP norms. I do not know of a robust solution to this
> > > problem, and my guess is that there is no robust solution unless we want
> > > governments to have more ability to proactively filter and to suppress
> > > Internet content that does not meet with their approval.
> > >
> > > I think that ENWP is more like a busy, diverse, and loud public square 
> > > than
> > > a quiet office with tight control of what everyone does and a central
> > > authority that quickly gets rid of people who make statements that are not
> > > acceptable within narrow parameters. I worry that the concept of "safe
> > > spaces" may come to mean something like: "People are only allowed to
> > > participate on Wikimedia sites if they act according to WMF's opinions
> > > regarding politically correct behavior and create content that does not
> > > offend WMF". Political correctness and safety are not characteristics that
> > > I would associate with Wikimedia sites, for better and for worse, and I
> > > think that attempting to create more political correctness and safety can
> > > come at too much expense of honesty, due process, freedom of expression,
> > > and editorial 

[Wikimedia-l] Banning real identities

2019-07-01 Thread Thomas Townsend
All,

In an attempt to move the discussion on from unprofitable and
inappropriate speculations about information shared in confidence,
let's look at one of the aspects that is made public.  When the WMF
issues a WMF Global Ban in line with
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Global_Ban_Policy it  has been in
the habit of doing so by login identity or pseudonym as at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Global_Ban_Policy/List

This makes perfect sense in terms of blocking users from logging in,
but the bans are not only issued against individuals personally rather
than specific account names ("A Foundation global ban is placed
against an individual instead of against a specific username") but
applies to real-world activities such as events and meetings ("as well
as any in-person events hosted, sponsored or funded by the
Foundation") for which people tyoically register and pay under a real
name.

Has the time not come to for WMF Global Bans to name people under
their real names, where known?  In answer to one likely objection:
this is not outing, since that applies only to members of the
Wikimedia community.  People subject to WMF Global Bans are no longer
members of that community: the ban pernamentaly and irrevocably
removes them from membership ("Foundation global bans are final; they
are not appealable, not negotiable and not reversible.").

The Turnip

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banning real identities

2019-07-02 Thread Thomas Townsend
> Why do you think this is important and what real purpose do you think this
> will serve?

A good question.  The stated object of global bans is "to help assure
the safety of users of the Wikimedia projects and/or assist in
preventing prohibited behavior that hinders dialogue, project
development and expansion".  Identifying those persons banned as fully
as possible helps to achieve that assurance and protect the community.

The Turnip.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal forced HTTPS backdoor in Kazakhstan

2019-07-28 Thread Thomas Townsend
Yaroslav

If there is no local chapter willing and able to take action, then
presumably it falls to WMF central to do so, as they have in the USA
and Turkey

The Turnip

On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 12:41, Yaroslav Blanter  wrote:
>
> I do not think Kazakhstan has a chapter. In the past, some Kazakh
> Wikimedians enjoyed close collaboration with the government (for example,
> the Kazakhstani Encyclopedia has been released under a free license and
> verbatim copied to the Kazakh Wikipedia, so that I do not expect much.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:45 PM Thomas Townsend 
> wrote:
>
> > Yury
> >
> > What is the position of the Kazakhstan chapter on this?
> >
> > The Turnip
> >
> > On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 11:36, Yury Bulka
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm sure many have heard about this:
> > >
> > https://thehackernews.com/2019/07/kazakhstan-https-security-certificate.html
> > >
> > > Essentially, the government in Kazakhstan started forcing citizens into
> > > installing a root TLS certificate on their devices that would allow the
> > > government to intercept, decrypt and manipulate all HTTPS traffic.
> > >
> > > Without the centificate, it seems, citizens can't access HTTPS pages (at
> > > least on some ISPs).
> > >
> > > I think this has serious implications for Wikipedia & Wikimedia, as not
> > > only they would be easily able to see which articles people read, but
> > > also steal login credentials, depseudonymize people and even hijack
> > > admin accounts.
> > >
> > > Another danger is that if this effort by Kazakhstan will succeed, other
> > > governments may start doing the same.
> > >
> > > I wonder if WMF has any position on this yet?
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Yury.
> > >
> > > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal forced HTTPS backdoor in Kazakhstan

2019-07-23 Thread Thomas Townsend
Yury

What is the position of the Kazakhstan chapter on this?

The Turnip

On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 11:36, Yury Bulka
 wrote:
>
> I'm sure many have heard about this:
> https://thehackernews.com/2019/07/kazakhstan-https-security-certificate.html
>
> Essentially, the government in Kazakhstan started forcing citizens into
> installing a root TLS certificate on their devices that would allow the
> government to intercept, decrypt and manipulate all HTTPS traffic.
>
> Without the centificate, it seems, citizens can't access HTTPS pages (at
> least on some ISPs).
>
> I think this has serious implications for Wikipedia & Wikimedia, as not
> only they would be easily able to see which articles people read, but
> also steal login credentials, depseudonymize people and even hijack
> admin accounts.
>
> Another danger is that if this effort by Kazakhstan will succeed, other
> governments may start doing the same.
>
> I wonder if WMF has any position on this yet?
>
> Best,
> Yury.
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 

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