Re: [Wikimedia-l] Trust and safety on Wikimedia projects

2020-05-25 Thread Thyge
The board resolution aims at "addressing harassment and incivility on
Wikimedia projects".

I don't see that this covers "disputes", i.e disputes over content.  We
can, of course, disagree with someone totally over a topic, as long as we
discuss our differences in a civil and respectful way - and consider our
opponent's point-of-view and arguments seriously.

Regards,
Thyge - Sir48


<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail>
Virusfri.
www.avg.com
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Den man. 25. maj 2020 kl. 14.45 skrev DerHexer via Wikimedia-l <
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>:

> That's a tricky topic, especially when local dispute resolution bodies
> (which should in most cases be approached first, I agree here) cannot solve
> the dispute or when multiple projects are involved. At the moment, there is
> in fact a lack of such body and of course it should be transparent,
> composed of multi-diverse community members who are trained and supported
> by professional mediation, etc. as pointed out. Currently, stewards like me
> are quite often approached with such topics but this user group is more
> focused on technical stuff like userrights. A former steward fellow and I
> discussed this topic at the Safety Space at Wikimania. Due to the nature of
> the space, the discussion have not been documented but you can find the
> presentation with backgrounds of the situation and open questions on
> Commons
> <
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_2019_%E2%80%93_Do_we_need_a_global_dispute_resolution_committee%3F.pdf
> >.
> Maybe it can give some ideas how to proceed with this.
>
> Best,
> Martin/DerHexer
>
>
> Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 06:19 Uhr schrieb Aron Demian <
> aronmanni...@gmail.com>:
>
> > On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 04:25, AntiCompositeNumber <
> > anticompositenum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Would it be fair to say that:
> > >  - Enforcement of a universal code of conduct would happen though a
> > > fair, clearly-defined process without significant bias and with
> > > significant community oversight and input
> > > - Universal code of conduct enforcement actions would be appealable
> > > through a fair, clearly-defined process with significant community
> > > oversight that allowed statements from involved parties and uninvolved
> > > community members
> > > - To ensure proper community oversight, code of conduct enforcement
> > > actions and appeals would be made as public as possible as often as
> > > possible (excepting issues where public disclosure would harm privacy
> > > or safety)
> > >
> > > AntiComposite
> > >
> >
> > Yes! These are fundamental requirements that need to be met by the
> process
> > that will be implemented in the second phase (Aug - end of 2020).
> > It seems there will be an opportunity to incorporate these requirements:
> >
> > The second phase, outlining clear enforcement pathways, and
> > > *refined with** broad input from the Wikimedia communities*, will be
> > > presented to the Board
> > > for ratification by the end of 2020;
> >
> >
> > I'd add a few more points:
> > - To handle workload and different languages, local boards should be
> > selected as the first step of the process, with possible escalation to a
> > global board if necessary (eg. for conflict-of-interest reason).
> > - To minimize bias the boards should consist of people from different
> > areas. As long as the local DR processes remain operational (ANI and the
> > likes), there should be a clear separation of powers: CoC board members
> > should not be involved with local DR to avoid concentration of power.
> Being
> > an admin should not be a requirement, in fact adminship and dispute
> > resolution should be separate roles, as the latter requires specific
> > training or experience, which is not part of the requirements to be
> admin.
> > - There should be at least 2 independent global boards so one can review
> > the other's decisions and handle appeals. Cases should be evaluated by
> the
> > board that has more members unrelated to the involved parties.
> > - Functionaries and board members should be regularly reviewed and terms
> > limited to a few years.
> >
> > About the DR process:
> > - Most of our communication is publicly visible on-wiki, therefore the
> > cases should be resolved in public. Transparency is crucial for community
&g

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Banning real identities

2019-07-05 Thread Thyge
- and please explain the meaning of 'doxxed" as well. Is that US slang?

Thyge - Sir48

Den fre. 5. jul. 2019 kl. 11.53 skrev Thomas Townsend :

> Alphos
>
> You don;t explain why being "doxxed" was a bad thing for you, or
> indeed what the downside is for anyone,  You simply assert that it is
> a Bad Thing and must not happen.  Would you like to give your reasons
> for those assertions?
>
> The Turnip
>
> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 15:12, Alphos OGame  wrote:
> >
> > I was doxxed by someone in the movement a few years ago, and I cannot
> stress this enough : WE MUST NOT DOXX PEOPLE.
> > It doesn't matter how good our intentions are.
> > It doesn't matter how bad these people are.
> > We as a community choose to block, ban, lock, whether or not globally,
> the accounts of people we deem unable to contribute.
> > We must not disclose unilaterally after the fact the identity of a
> contributor. And not only because we may well have no clue about it. It may
> get them jailed for the wrong reasons. It may get them harmed for their
> genuine contributions.
> > That MUST NOT (rfc2119 [1]) be how we handle things.
> > Once again, I cannot stress this enough.
> >
> > Do not do this. This is a bad idea on so many levels. Pretty much all of
> them, really.
> >
> > Alphos
> >
> > [1] https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
> >
> > Le 2 juil. 2019 à 08:17, Thomas Townsend  a
> écrit :
> >
> > >> Why do you think this is important and what real purpose do you think
> this
> > >> will serve?
> > >
> > > A good question.  The stated object of global bans is "to help assure
> > > the safety of users of the Wikimedia projects and/or assist in
> > > preventing prohibited behavior that hinders dialogue, project
> > > development and expansion".  Identifying those persons banned as fully
> > > as possible helps to achieve that assurance and protect the community.
> > >
> > > The Turnip.
> > >
> > > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] On wiki versus off wiki - it may not be that simple

2019-06-30 Thread Thyge
Den søn. 30. jun. 2019 kl. 18.48 skrev Todd Allen :

> "Even if the answer is "Some of the conduct was off-wiki",
> that tells us nothing about what it was or how WMF came to be aware of it."
>

I'm not so sure that is correct.

Thyge Larsen (Sir48)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] proposals

2019-04-09 Thread Thyge
I for one would prefer that proposals were entered on wiki and only links
to them be posted in an email here with a 5-word topic for each.
Kind regards,
Thyge Larsen

Den tir. 9. apr. 2019 kl. 10.58 skrev James Salsman :

> I would like to send some proposals, less than a kilobyte each, to
> this email list, but just in case I would like to know whether anyone
> seeing this would prefer that I not send them. Please let me know.
> Thank you. Best regards, -Jim
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Anti-viruses [was Re: Information on "Multiple failed attempts to log in" emails]

2018-05-07 Thread Thyge
"Imagine a world, where all windows installations have turned off their
antivirus protection"!

Regards,
Thyge

Den man. 7. maj 2018 kl. 17.09 skrev Shlomi Fish <shlo...@shlomifish.org>:

> Hi Gabriel,
>
> On Mon, 7 May 2018 14:02:44 +0100
> Gabriel Thullen <gabr...@thullen.com> wrote:
>
> > I am also a Linux advocate, and have been so for years (decades?). That
> > been said, I imagine that there are still more people using Windows XP
> than
> > there are people using Linux. Last time I checked (october 2017) it was
> > something like 5% using XP and less than 1% using linux, all distros
> > included. We can safely predict that virus outvreaks will be a problem
> for
> > linux once it reaches 5% or 10% market share...
> >
>
> Most linux viruses have never outbroke and never caused much harm. Linux
> can be
> susceptible to other forms of malware such as worms or rootkits, but it
> hasyet
> to exhibit a large scale virus epidemic and it isnt because it wasn't
> tried.
> Linux is an attractive target because many servers run on it. See also
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=linux+viruses=web
>
> Regards,
>
> Shlomi
>
> > Gabe
> >
> > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 1:51 PM, Shabab Mustafa <shabab.must...@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I have been a Linux advocate for almost a decade now and from 'my past
> > > experience', I can tell you have opened a topic of a huge discussion
> about
> > > people should switch to Linux Desktops (which is off-topic here). But I
> > > respectfully disagree with your statement, "anti-virus programs
> usually do
> > > more harm than good".
> > >
> > > From a conservative viewpoint, some protection is still better to have
> than
> > > no protection at all. And the example you gave here, an anti-virus
> > > mistakenly classified your domain as a potential threat, makes a weaker
> > > point. By a few mistakes, we cannot cancel out a million of other
> > > successes. A false alarm is yet favourable than no alarm at all.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Shabab Mustafa
> > > President
> > > Wikimedia Bangladesh
> > >
> > > ​
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 5:56 PM Shlomi Fish <shlo...@shlomifish.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thu, 3 May 2018 19:27:16 -0500
> > > > John Bennett <jbenn...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > Many of you may have been receiving emails in the last 24 hours
> > > > > warning
> > > > you
> > > > > of "Multiple failed attempts to log in" with your account. I
> wanted to
> > > > let
> > > > > you know that the Wikimedia Foundation's Security team is aware of
> the
> > > > > situation, and working with others in the organization on steps
> to
> > > > decrease
> > > > > the success of attacks like these.
> > > > >
> > > > > The exact source is not yet known, but it is not originating from
> our
> > > > > systems. That means it is an external effort to gain unauthorized
> > > access
> > > > to
> > > > > random accounts. These types of efforts are increasingly common for
> > > > > websites of our reach. A vast majority of these attempts have been
> > > > > unsuccessful, and we are reaching out personally to the small
> number of
> > > > > accounts which we believe have been compromised.
> > > > >
> > > > > While we are constantly looking at improvements to our security
> > > > > systems
> > > > and
> > > > > processes to offset the impact of malicious efforts such as these,
> the
> > > > best
> > > > > method of prevention continues to be the steps each of you take to
> > > > > safeguard your accounts. Because of this, we have taken steps in
> the
> > > past
> > > > > to support things like stronger password requirements,[1] and we
> > > continue
> > > > > to encourage everyone to take some routine steps to maintain a
> secure
> > > > > computer and account. That includes regularly changing your
> > > passwords,[2]
> > > > > actively running antivirus software on your systems, and keeping
> your
> > > > > system software up to date.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > From my ex

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees appointments and officer positions

2017-08-23 Thread Thyge
I think we all know the substance of this topic  and have known for quite
some time. Everyone may call the procedure whatever suits her/him best.

Regards
Thyge - Sir48

2017-08-23 16:32 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:

> On 23 August 2017 at 12:32, Katie Chan <k...@ktchan.info> wrote:
> > On 23/08/2017 00:33, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> By definition, no, it is not. "An election is a formal group
> >> decision-making process by which a population chooses an individual to
> >> hold public office." In this case the choice of who holds office is
> >> made by the board, not the community who "vote". At best it's a
> >> nomination process.
> >>
> >
> > Let's go with the broader definition from (en) Wiktionary - "A process of
> > choosing ... or other representatives by popular vote.", or even beyond
> the
> > first sentence from en Wikipedia - "To elect means "to choose or make a
> > decision", and so sometimes other forms of ballot such as referendums are
> > referred to as elections, especially in the United States.".
>
> The community does not chose the representatives. It merely makes
> *non-binding* recommendations.
>
> The choice - as to whether *or not* to accept them - rests entirely
> with the board.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: stranded travelers offered asylum in Canada

2017-01-29 Thread Thyge
I hope the above is quite off-topic for this list.
Regards
Sir48-Thyge


2017-01-29 23:58 GMT+01:00 James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com>:

> https://www.yahoo.com/news/canada-offers-temporary-home-
> those-stranded-trump-order-221401138.html
>
> I strongly disagree that Bannon is not a if not the primarily
> responsible party for both the SSL certificate revocation threats and
> the travel ban:
>
> http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/steve-bannon-personally-
> overruled-dhs-decision-not-to-include-green-card-holders-in-
> travel-ban-cnn/
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Concerns in general

2017-01-28 Thread Thyge
It's not so challenging, Nathan -we just need to make a copy of a full
backup for each language version, we have and store it in the
country/countries where the language is spoken. This avoids any bias in the
selection.

Regards,
Sir48-Thyge

2017-01-28 2:12 GMT+01:00 Nathan <nawr...@gmail.com>:

> Romaine makes some good points. There is a legitimate concern that the turn
> to populism and unpredictability threatens the environment in which
> Wikimedia operates, and its only reasonable to consider a move of core
> assets somewhere safer from the unspooling of Western social fabric.
> Perhaps the Netherlands is a good alternative, although Geert Wilders is
> quite popular there... The United Kingdom, perhaps? Yet with Brexit and
> UKIP, one wonders how safe Wikimedia would be there. Perhaps France, if not
> for Marine Le Pen... This is more challenging than I expected. Where will
> we find some place that is protected from the pernicious threats that beset
> the Wikimedia Foundation in the United States?
>
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:33 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Today I was reading in the (international) news about websites with
> > knowledge on the topic of climate change disappear from the internet as
> > result of the Trump administration. The second thing I read is that
> before
> > something can be published about this topic, the government needs to
> > approve this.
> >
> > Do you realise what the right word for this is? censorship.
> > Even if it is only partially.
> >
> > Luckily there are many scientists working on getting all the data abroad,
> > out of the US to ensure the research data is saved, including on servers
> in
> > the Netherlands where Trump (hopefully) has no reach.
> >
> > In the past week I was reading about the Internet Archive organisation,
> who
> > is making a back up in Canada because of the Trump administration. I did
> > not understood this, you may call me naive, but now I do understand,
> > apparently they have some visionary people at the Internet Archive.
> >
> > I miss a good answer to this situation from the Wikimedia Foundation.
> >
> > Trump is now promoting harassment and disrespect, already for some time,
> >
> > What signal is given to the rest of the world if an America based
> > organisation is spreading the thought of a harassment free Wikipedia and
> > the free word, while the president of the US is promoting harassment,
> > disrespect and censorship on a massive scale.
> >
> > This is just the first week of this president!
> >
> > I am 100% sure everyone in the Wikimedia movement is willing to make sure
> > Wikimedia faces no damage whatsoever, including in WMF, but to me this
> > still starts to get concerning.
> >
> > If we as Wikimedia movement think that free knowledge, free speech,
> freedom
> > of information, etc are important, I would think that the location where
> > the organisation is based is that country where liberty is the largest, I
> > do not know where this is but it is definitely not the US.
> >
> > To my impression WMF is stuck in the US, so I do not believe they would
> > actually move when the danger grows.
> >
> > But I think it is possible to make sure risks are spread over the world.
> > Certainly as we are an international movement that intends to cover the
> > knowledge of the whole humanoid civilisation.
> >
> > To come to a conclusion, I think WMF and the Wikimedia movement should
> > think about a back-up plan if it actually goes wrong.
> >
> >
> > If you do not agree with me: that is perfectly fine, that's your right
> and
> > should be protected.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Romaine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] DEITYBOUNCE and reader logs (was Re: Introducing Victoria Coleman, WMF Chief Technology Officer)

2016-11-08 Thread Thyge
James Salsman wrote:

>
> If this does not imply that the logs are copied from Foundation
> servers, that is certainly advantageous over the apparent meaning
> of the language used.


Reading the links you provided, and Robert West's acknowledgements which
you did not link to, the above strikes me as being creation of drama as
opposed to asking a question assuming good faith. Since Robert West had
a Wikimedia Fellowship 1), I assume that he was able to analyze data from
Wikipedia directly and that no transfer data outside of the WMF has taken
place. I'm sure Leila Zia is able to clarify.

Regards,
Thyge - Sir48

1) https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Research
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Katy Love to direct WMF Resources team

2016-02-26 Thread Thyge
I'm also in strong support of Maggie - no exception this time :)

Thyge

2016-02-26 19:08 GMT+01:00 Sydney Poore <sydney.po...@gmail.com>:

> I completely agree with Maggie that promoting Katy Love was the smart
> decision. We need someone who can step in and quickly provide strong
> leadership.
>
> Sydney
>
> Sydney Poore
> User:FloNight
> Wikipedian in Residence
> at Cochrane Collaboration
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:54 AM, Maggie Dennis <mden...@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello, Ruslan.
> >
> > Yes, Katy is stepping into the role in a permanent, full-time basis.
> >
> > Determining HR direction is not my role. :) Stating how the Board feels
> > about open hiring is also not my place (and I don't know). But I am happy
> > to share my own opinion.
> >
> > While some roles will and should be filled in an open, public search,
> some
> > roles may be appropriately filled by promoting existing staff with a
> proven
> > track record. The costs of hiring are not small, both in the amount of
> time
> > it takes to recruit and fill a position and the amount of time it takes
> to
> > onboard a new person. The leadership of our resources team needs to be
> > filled quickly. Stability is important in the work they do. And we have a
> > person at hand who has been well trained for the role and successfully
> > worked with community on this basis for years. She is not being hired,
> but
> > promoted - a promotion she has amply earned.
> >
> > That said, the role Katy had previously filled will be an open new hire,
> > with opportunities for all to apply. It'll just take a little bit of time
> > to put the hiring packet together. We are also getting ready to open the
> > search for the replacement for the leadership of Community Engagement,
> > which I have taken in the interim - and for which I hope to see many
> > community applicants.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Maggie
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 3:01 AM, Ruslan Takayev <
> ruslan.taka...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Maggie, et al
> > >
> > > Is Katy "stepping into" the role on a full-time, permanent basis?
> > >
> > > I ask this question, as questions I asked relating to the "new, open
> > > approach" towards recruitment at the WMF are yet to be answered[1] and
> I
> > > don't recall there being any advertisements as a call for applications
> to
> > > fill Siko's position.
> > >
> > > TBH, this doesn't sound like a "new, open approach" towards recruitment
> > at
> > > the WMF, but more of the same..."jobs for the boys".
> > >
> > > Comment would be welcome Maggie.
> > >
> > > Warm regards,
> > >
> > > Ruslan Takayev
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-February/081677.html
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Maggie Dennis <mden...@wikimedia.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello, all.
> > > >
> > > > I am delighted to announce that Katy Love has agreed to step into the
> > > role
> > > > of Director of Resources in the Community Engagement department,
> > picking
> > > up
> > > > the baton so ably carried by Siko Bouterse before her. Katy has been
> > with
> > > > the Wikimedia Foundation since January 2013, beginning as the first
> > > program
> > > > officer to work with the Funds Dissemination Committee (FDC). I’m
> > > grateful
> > > > to her for moving into this role and am looking forward to
> > collaborating
> > > > with her closely in WMF’s Community Engagement department.
> > > >
> > > > We will be hiring her replacement to oversee the FDC/full annual plan
> > > > grants program in the weeks ahead.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Maggie
> > > >
> > > > P.S. Their page! https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Resources
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Maggie Dennis
> > > > Interim Sr. Director of Community Engagement
> > > > Director, Support and Safety
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Gui

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Transition plans for WMF leadership - Board Reform

2016-02-25 Thread Thyge
I already proposed a "house of representatives" earlier to represent the
stakeholders and take care of the diversity issue, appointing the BoT etc.

Regards,
Thyge


2016-02-25 10:14 GMT+01:00 Jens Best <best.j...@gmail.com>:

> just very short input here on the list:
>
> A community council or membership structure representing the diversity and
> plurality of the movement in a democratic way would be great idea, in fact
> it is a much needed idea to be realized.
>
> BUT:
>
> This structure would need to be a true counter-balance to WMF/BoT.
> Therefore true power (decision-making, money etc.) would need to be
> transfered in appropiate ways into the responsibility of this new
> structure. If all the final decisionmaking would stay with the BoT and the
> management of WMF any such more representative council would only be a
> toothless thing.
>
> Best,
> Jens
>
> 2016-02-25 5:21 GMT+01:00 James Alexander <jameso...@gmail.com>:
>
> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Denny Vrandecic <
> dvrande...@wikimedia.org
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I disagree very much with Dariusz on this topic (as he knows).
> >
> >
> > I must say I also disagree with you ;).
> >
> > That is not to say that a community council or membership structure of
> some
> > sort might not be good (I think there are some logistical challenges that
> > are so difficult that it may not be possible... I'd rather us try to deal
> > with things like global dispute resolution first before we try to think
> > about some governance council... but the idea is certainly intriguing)
> but
> > I think the idea that  that body is 100% independent or that the board
> > itself should not/is not speaking for the movement too is missing some of
> > the point and being far too simplistic for the good of the org and the
> > movement. I know you don't really mean it this way but it can easily come
> > across as a bit of "don't look at me if this was bad for the movement I
> had
> > to ignore that".
> >
> >
> > > I think that
> > > a body that is able to speak for the movement as a whole would be
> > extremely
> > > beneficial in order to relieve the current Board of Trustees of the
> > > Wikimedia Foundation from that role. It simply cannot - and indeed,
> > legally
> > > must not - fulfill this role.
> >
> >
> >
> > > To make a few things about the Board of Trustees clear - things that
> will
> > > be true now matter how much you reorganize it:
> > >
> > > - the Board members have duties of care and loyalty to the Foundation -
> > not
> > > to the movement. If there is a decision to be made where there is a
> > > conflict between the Movement or one of the Communities with the
> > > Foundation, the Board members have to decide in favor of the
> Foundation.
> > > They are not only trained to so, they have actually pledged to do so.
> > >
> > > - the Board members have fiduciary responsibilities. No, we cannot just
> > > talk about what we are doing. As said, the loyalty of a Board member is
> > > towards the organization, not the movement.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Whether the board wants it or not it DOES end up serving a leadership
> role
> > in the Movement and arguably the top leadership role. Yes it has a
> > fiduciary responsibility to the org but part of that is it also has a
> "duty
> > of obedience". That duty of obedience includes, ensuring the board
> members
> > "have a responsibility to be faithful to the organization’s stated
> mission
> > and not to act or use its resources in incompatible ways or purposes" in
> > addition to ensuring the org follows applicable laws. [1] So if we don't
> > think that the Foundation has to do what's best for the movement as well
> > then perhaps we should be reevaluating the wording of that mission.
> >
> > I would say  a non-profit has an obligation to wind itself down if its
> > mission (and remaining money) is better served elsewhere (as an extreme
> > example, but one I've certainly seen) or to transfer the copyrights out
> of
> > country if that was the right move etc. A duty to the organization does
> not
> > meant that you do not have a duty to the movement and so I think it is
> > wrong to try and side step that under the umbrella of fiduciary
> > responsibility which is much more then just money and personnel.
> >
> > [Could say a lot more but probably not useful here and now :) I feel
> like I
> > ei

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Anybody alive?

2016-02-24 Thread Thyge
I think the rest is on FB.

Thyge

2016-02-24 20:10 GMT+01:00 Joseph Seddon <jsed...@wikimedia.org>:

> I got distracted by a passing sheep.
>
> Seddon
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 6:47 PM, Richard Symonds <
> richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > I'm not actually here, I'm a sockpuppet using my wife's laptop.
> >
> > Richard Symonds
> > Wikimedia UK
> > 0207 065 0992
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
> 4LT.
> > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> >
> > *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> > over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
> >
> > On 24 February 2016 at 18:20, Thehelpfulone <thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 24 February 2016 at 18:18, Milos Rancic <mill...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think we should find first at least one of the list admins, so we
> > > > could find the names of the persons we are searching. Austin?
> > > > TheHelpfulOne? Richard (from Australia)?
> > > >
> > >
> > > *waves*, it's actually closer to ~1500, so a few more to find.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thehelpfulone
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > ___
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Seddon
>
> *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)*
> *Wikimedia Foundation*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Transition plans for WMF leadership - Board Reform

2016-02-23 Thread Thyge
Lane Rasberry,

I'm aware of the ongoing election - but in all respect, that has nothing to
do with a house of representavtives as I envision it, i.e. being "above"
the board.

The present structure allows the existing board to decline access to the
persons being elected.

Regards,
Thyge


2016-02-23 16:05 GMT+01:00 Lane Rasberry <l...@bluerasberry.com>:

> Hello,
>
> Could I remind you all that there is a board election in progress right now
> for 2 of the 10 seats? Please see details for the 2016 Affiliate-selected
> board seats election at
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate-selected_Board_seats/2016>
>
> Amir, you said that you wanted representation from "India, China, Russia,
> Iran, Brazil, Korea, Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia, Arab countries and
> finally, all of Africa". If you like, you may encourage anyone from those
> countries to seek a nomination. Also, it would be very helpful if you could
> encourage the Wikimedia chapters in those countries to participate in the
> election in any way that they could, especially by planning to vote during
> the upcoming voting period.
>
> Thyge - we do have a sort of house of representatives and it has a board
> election happening right now.
>
> Nominations for the board are open till March 8! Election starts March 24!
> Please share the message.
>
> Thanks - if anyone has questions post on the election page.
>
> yours,
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter <pute...@mccme.ru>
> wrote:
>
> > On 2016-02-23 14:54, Thyge wrote:
> >
> >> We should not have direct elections to the board. We should have a
> "house
> >> of representatives" with X members from each part of the world and
> charged
> >> with electing the board and decide major issues like location of the
> WMF,
> >> changed of bylaws etc.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Thyge
> >>
> >>
> > I do not think it could solve the diversity issue.
> >
> > To appoint the number of individuals with a set of skills and needed
> > diversity, one needs candidates which will have needed skills and desired
> > diversity to start with.
> >
> > Our experience as a movement (and also of people in other organizations
> in
> > different contexts) that these people do not always queue at the doors of
> > the WMF office to wait for being elected. They need to be scouted,
> > negotiated with, and convinced to be willing to sit at the board. This is
> > what currently various companies are paid to do, and this seems to be a
> > reasonable arrangement to me.
> >
> > As far as the candidates are there, I do not see much of a difference
> > whether the community, a selected group (like house of representatives),
> or
> > the Board votes for them. And as soon as there is no difference there is
> > also no need to make the structure more complicated. I thus conclude that
> > this House of representatives is not needed for the Board elections.
> >
> > (It might be needed for other things, which are outside the scope of this
> > discussion).
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > ___
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> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Lane Rasberry
> user:bluerasberry on Wikipedia
> 206.801.0814
> l...@bluerasberry.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Transition plans for WMF leadership - Board Reform

2016-02-23 Thread Thyge
I agree - few complicated problems can be solved once and for all - but it
is possible to move in a better direction. "Better" in this context means
to improve the existing lack of diversity and WWV (world wide view) of
things.

I´m fine with outsourcing the search for candidates for the board to ensure
that it holds the knowledge and talent required.  But the decision should
rest with the house of representatives - which then could be also take care
of those other things needed.

Regards,
Thyge

2016-02-23 15:47 GMT+01:00 Yaroslav M. Blanter <pute...@mccme.ru>:

> On 2016-02-23 14:54, Thyge wrote:
>
>> We should not have direct elections to the board. We should have a "house
>> of representatives" with X members from each part of the world and charged
>> with electing the board and decide major issues like location of the WMF,
>> changed of bylaws etc.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Thyge
>>
>>
> I do not think it could solve the diversity issue.
>
> To appoint the number of individuals with a set of skills and needed
> diversity, one needs candidates which will have needed skills and desired
> diversity to start with.
>
> Our experience as a movement (and also of people in other organizations in
> different contexts) that these people do not always queue at the doors of
> the WMF office to wait for being elected. They need to be scouted,
> negotiated with, and convinced to be willing to sit at the board. This is
> what currently various companies are paid to do, and this seems to be a
> reasonable arrangement to me.
>
> As far as the candidates are there, I do not see much of a difference
> whether the community, a selected group (like house of representatives), or
> the Board votes for them. And as soon as there is no difference there is
> also no need to make the structure more complicated. I thus conclude that
> this House of representatives is not needed for the Board elections.
>
> (It might be needed for other things, which are outside the scope of this
> discussion).
>
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Transition plans for WMF leadership - Board Reform

2016-02-23 Thread Thyge
We should not have direct elections to the board. We should have a "house
of representatives" with X members from each part of the world and charged
with electing the board and decide major issues like location of the WMF,
changed of bylaws etc.

Regards,
Thyge

2016-02-23 14:38 GMT+01:00 Yaroslav M. Blanter <pute...@mccme.ru>:

> On 2016-02-23 14:30, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
>
>> Well, since someone brought that up, I'd risk asking:
>> Does it make any sense to make the board in some of its future
>> incarnations
>> more representative?
>> More representative of the editors?
>> More representative of the world's lands and languages?
>> More representative of the world's different economic regions?
>> More representative of some relevant professional fields that are relevant
>> for being in the Board of a massively-international-and-multilingual
>> transparent web-oriented education-oriented non-profit?
>>
>>
> Hi Amir,
>
> in my personal opinion, the current composition of the Board (elected vs
> nominated by affiliates vs appointed seats) is in principle fine. It can be
> fine-tuned by moving may be one seat here and there, but this is a big deal
> and it is not clear for me how it is needed.
>
> A big question which was there from the very beginning is how to ensure
> the diversity. This is related to the composition of the board. We know if
> we make all seats directly elected we do not necessarily have the desired
> diversity and needed skills. If we make all of them appointed we can in
> principle have diversity and skills (though recent events shown this can
> have some problematic side issues) but then the community has no voice.
>
> I do not know how this can be currently solved. Or, to be precise, how one
> can solve it without compromising on bigger issues.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Transition plans for WMF leadership

2016-02-23 Thread Thyge
It is in cases like this that an advisory board could/should be an asset. I
hope the board could reach out to one or more participants in that
group for additional help and advice.

Regards,
Thyge


2016-02-23 5:41 GMT+01:00 Risker <risker...@gmail.com>:

> On 22 February 2016 at 22:00, Sydney Poore <sydney.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > > I also hope that the current Board members will thoughtfully consider
> > > whether it's in the best interests of the Wikimedia Foundation and the
> > > larger Wikimedia movement for them to continue as Board members.
> >
> > The instability that would result from large scale resignations of
> > Board members would be devastating to WMF.
> >
> > That aside, under the best of circumstances, the volunteer BoT of WMF
> > are faced with an extremely demanding and challenging work load. And,
> > no volunteer board has the skill set to manage the problems that have
> > come up over the last few months and have escalated out of control.
> >
> > I strongly encourage giving the BoT time to react to the most recent
> > comments, and develop a responsible plan of action.
> >
> >
>
> I also agree with Sydney, and will point out that in the past year, we have
> had brand new board members in 3 board-selected seats (one of whom only
> participated for a few weeks), and 3 community seats (two of whom remain in
> place, the third being replaced by a former board member.  That is at least
> five new members in a single year, no matter how one cuts it - and it
> doesn't even take into consideration the ongoing process for
> chapter-selected seats.
>
> This past year has already seen the largest turnover in board membership
> that the Foundation has ever experienced; it was unusual to have more than
> two seats change incumbents in all the past years. We have already seen
> very significant change in the make-up of the Board, and half the board is
> still learning the ropes and responsibilities. This level of change is
> likely to be at least partly responsible for some of the unfortunate
> situations we have seen in the last several months. But those who are
> seeking a new board...well, you already have one.
>
> Risker/Anne
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Post mortems

2016-02-21 Thread Thyge
I acknowledge that a group of wikipedians may discuss in any forum, they
prefer. Doing
it in a closed forum on FB does not, however, constitute a discussion by
the community,
because it excludes a  lot of people who reject i.e. the FB license, the FB
terms of use, and
last not least the FB privacy policy.

The latter is of special interest to me after having served as an ombudsman
for wikimedia.
Are people aware of the fact, that joining that group and commenting there
could easily lead to
their real identity being linked to their wiki user name - and that this in
some cases could be
more dangerous than "voicing their opinions in other forums"?

Regards,
Thyge


2016-02-22 2:57 GMT+01:00 Andrew Lih <andrew@gmail.com>:

> Hi all, it’s probably useful to paste in the “What for?” message for the
> Wikipedia Weekly Facebook group. Hopefully it will help clear things up.
>
> —-
> From:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/notes/wikipedia-weekly/introduction-to-the-ww-group/961015923946239
>
> This is a quick note about what goes on here in the Wikipedia Weekly
> Facebook group. Thanks for joining what has become a useful forum in the
> last few years, and especially in recent months.
>
> Perhaps a useful motto for this group is: "High signal, key voices,
> efficient volume." That's a label few would use to describe Wikimedia-L or
> on-wiki discussions, even though those are very necessary and key parts of
> the movement. In many ways, this is a meta-news group, pointing to the best
> and most interesting things happening in our community and the public. It's
> not meant to be a direct replacement for any venue that exists now.
>
> This group started informally as a lively community space in lieu of, or in
> reaction to, Wikipedia Weekly podcast episodes. Signpost, Wikimedia chapter
> folks, WMF comms team, bloggers or any concerned community members are
> welcome in the interest of productive and informative discussions about the
> movement. One of the key aspects is that this is a respectful and highly
> interactive space that, like it or not, is Facebook's main value.
>
> As for the public/private nature of what is said here: we probably don't
> have a great term for it. In some sense, it's like the open access vs TWL
> (The Wikipedia Library) argument – should the comments here be referenced
> (or given prominence) if it's firewalled behind a Facebook login. People
> can be expected to be quoted here, but not truly hyperlinked-to. Signpost,
> for example, has referenced discussions here on multiple occasions in its
> news stories. This group might get people to write opinions they wouldn't
> voice in other forums. I see that as a useful part of our communications
> ecosystem.
>
> Experiments like Discourse (https://discourse.wmflabs.org/) might be the
> answer to help moderate the noisy, disparate and acerbic social spaces in
> our movement, and I welcome it. For now, I like that this group is serving
> an unmet need, and I thank the folks here for making it engaged and
> meaningful.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 7:26 PM, Risker <risker...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I can agree with what you're saying, Craig.  I can also understand what
> > Brandon is saying - that some people prefer that interface.
> >
> > Unlike many Facebook pages, though, this one is not public and cannot be
> > viewed by anyone who does not have a FB account.  It's the one venue that
> > many interested parties cannot even read, let alone participate in,
> unless
> > they're willing to give up some fairly significant privacy.  I am
> > disappointed, but I do not hold it against anyone for preferring to
> discuss
> > issues in a venue not associated with Wikimedia.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> >
> > On 21 February 2016 at 19:01, Craig Franklin <cfrank...@halonetwork.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > People will have discussions at a location that is personally
> convenient
> > > for them.  Unless you're going to reprogram human nature, I don't see
> > that
> > > there's anything to be done about the resulting balkanisation of the
> > > discussion.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Craig
> > >
> > > On 22 February 2016 at 09:54, Thyge <ltl.pri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I really wonder why wikimedia discussions have migrated to FB. Are we
> > > > applying for a grant?
> > > >
> > > > Thyge
> > > >
> > > > 2016-02-22 0:51 GMT+01:00 Newyorkbrad <newyorkb...@gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > I too am one of those people who is not to be found on Facebook.  I
> > > > > only have

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Post mortems

2016-02-21 Thread Thyge
I really wonder why wikimedia discussions have migrated to FB. Are we
applying for a grant?

Thyge

2016-02-22 0:51 GMT+01:00 Newyorkbrad <newyorkb...@gmail.com>:

> I too am one of those people who is not to be found on Facebook.  I
> only have room in my life for one online timesink ... and I already
> have Wikipedia :)
>
> Newyorkbrad
>
> On 2/21/16, Risker <risker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As has already been explained on this list, many people do not have
> access
> > to Facebook.  If this is something germane and useful to a lot of people
> on
> > this list, perhaps it would be appropriate to ask Jonathan to post it
> here.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> >
> > On 21 February 2016 at 18:34, Anthony Cole <ahcole...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> For those not following, I recommend the discussion in response to
> >> Jonathan
> >> Cardy's comment here:
> >>
> >>
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/960989863948845/
> >>
> >> Anthony Cole
> >> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] An Open Letter to Wikimedia Foundation BoT

2016-02-19 Thread Thyge
Thanks, Denny Vrandecic (and to Dariusz Jemielniak as well) for expressing
some individual views as members of the BoT.

Denny:
A firm choice between the two communication strategies needs not be made.
Both could be proper solutions depending on the situation. But don't you
honestly think,
that the BoT in this case ought to convene and work out a common and
comprehensive response
to the issues raised? I don't necessarily see the need for it to be handled
through legal or why that
would mean its ending up as "a bloodless, corporate-like speech".

The BoT should set the direction for the WMF after discussing topics with
the community.  I am absolutely
sure that the intelligence of the members of the BoT is sufficient both to
realize the situation and to know
that lack of response for so long in itself adds to the Fear, Uncertainty,
and Doubt in the community and the WMF staff.

And for one actual thing, I wonder how anybody could enter the BoT as
affiliate (s)elected members without knowing
the thoughts of the present BoT members on these important issues.

Regards,
Thyge

2016-02-20 0:49 GMT+01:00 Denny Vrandecic <dvrande...@wikimedia.org>:

> Delphine,
>
> thank you.
>
> Whereas I do not agree with everything you say (but I think those are
> discussions for another time), I wholeheartedly agree with your insight
> that the Board as a whole is dumber than its member on average. Thank you
> for putting this down to words. I would even say, dumber than any of its
> members (including myself, who probably ranks at the bottom).
>
> The Board is not the governing body of the movement, and the Foundation is
> not the movement. The ED is not the president, and the Chair of the Board
> is not the Queen or King. The FDC is neither Santa Claus nor the IRS. Some
> of the issues come from the demands and expectations to these positions
> that would come from such roles - e.g. the expectations towards the Board
> are sometimes mistaken for the expectations one would have towards a
> representative governing body of the movement. But the actual, and
> sometimes legal roles and responsibilities these bodies have (your much
> aligned fiduciary responsibility comes to mind) weight stronger than these
> mere expectations, which leads to much suffering.
>
> I do not know of many topics as important as clearing up the roles and
> bodies of the movement as a whole. But I know that unless we do, we will
> continue to crash face-forward into brick walls again and again. I have no
> idea how to get to that promised land, but I hope it will not take us forty
> years of wandering in the desert to do so.
>
> I want to say it very clearly, that I honestly believe that, no matter how
> stupid the Board seems to have acted, that I believe that each and every
> member of the Board during their time on the Board while I have been there
> - and I want to explicitly include James - has acted to their best
> intentions and to the best of their knowledge. I expect that to continue.
> It is utterly frustrating to see how things are turning out.
>
> To all others: many of the Board members receive and read these comments on
> many different channels. But we have basically two options to engage, and
> both are suboptimal.
> # One option is to make sure that the Board's communication with the
> community always represents the opinion of the Board as a whole, which
> means to discuss it internally at first, to check with legal and PR, and to
> go through these cycles again and again. Almost any message, no matter how
> vivid and bubbly it might have been, will turn out as a bloodless,
> corporate-like speech after that. Never mind that such a process will never
> be fast enough to allow for anything that resembles a conversation.
> # The alternative is to allow every member of the Board to engage
> individually as they like. This will mean that there are much more
> individual conversations going on, things can be better explained. But this
> also means that the individual Trustee's statement must not be taken as
> golden representations of the Board's thinking. If ten Board members engage
> with the community (which won't happen anyway, but even if it's five), do
> expect five different voices and opinions, and don't expect that everything
> said will actually become a resolution (which, in the end, is the only way
> the Board as a Board can communicate anyway). This obviously can lead to
> plenty of "that Trustee said that" or "no, I talked with Trustee X, and she
> said that this change is a bad idea", etc. - never mind possible legal
> implications.
>
> Since I have been on the Board there was never even really a discussion
> which of these options we should take. And I am not surprised by it -
> considering how creative and d

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An Open Letter to Wikimedia Foundation BoT

2016-02-19 Thread Thyge
This marvellous thread goes a long way to prove that we are in possession
of a very able, considerate, and polite WMF-oriented community in addition
to the "silent" community that goes on editing our sites.
But it also makes me wonder whether the BoT as a  body maintains its
silence about the issues? If they have answered somewhere else, please
someone point to it.

Regards,
Thyge

2016-02-19 23:24 GMT+01:00 Delphine Ménard <notafi...@gmail.com>:

> Here you go SJ,
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 10:09 PM, Sam Klein <sjkl...@hcs.harvard.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > Delphine writes:
> >>   
> >> We freaking built an encyclopedia, of course we can take care of it
> > without
> >> having to fear everyone and their brother! And while an organisation is
> > not
> >> a wiki, and revert not always an option, I'm pretty sure that
>
>
> ... reverting sometimes *is* a good idea. And maybe the only idea.
>
>
> Delphine
> --
> @notafish
>
> NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get
> lost.
> Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive -
> http://blog.notanendive.org
> Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] "9 annoying nonprofit trends that need to die"

2016-02-07 Thread Thyge
2016-02-07 19:10 GMT+01:00 Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>:

> A marketing slogan that I'd like WMF to banish is that Wikipedia is 100%
> written by volunteers. That's simply false.


I find that point of view entirely wrong. The WMF does not pay anybody to
edit, so editors are volunteers. I might follow the same line of reasoning
and say, that Wikipedia is not neutral, because people are allowed to write
about their own country/city etc.

Contributors make a living from other sources. Anybody could have some
affiliation other than getting paid and total neutrality is hard to come by.

Thyge

2016-02-07 19:10 GMT+01:00 Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>:

> A marketing slogan that I'd like WMF to banish is that Wikipedia is 100%
> written by volunteers. That's simply false. Wikipedia is written by
> individuals with a mix of motives, and for some people those motives
> include financial compensation.
>
> Diverging a little into the topic of paid contributions: generally I feel
> that *disclosed* paid editing is ok so long as it's done in a manner that's
> compliant with our policies. For example, a museum staffer who publicly
> discloses their affiliation and writes on Wikipedia about a fossil that the
> museum has in its collection may be a net positive writer for the
> encyclopedia. On the other hand, a someone who's a POV-pusher for a
> political interest, whether paid or unpaid, may be a net negative for the
> encyclopedia.
>
> In any case, Wikipedia is only partially written by volunteers, and public
> communications from WMF should be consistent with this reality.
>
> Pine
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 1:58 AM, rupert THURNER <rupert.thur...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > lol  This is why “Nonprofit: The Musical” will have, as one of its
> > characters, a consultant robot, whose only job is to repeat exactly
> > what an internal staff or board member says; the difference is that
> > the robot actually gets listened to.
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think that a number of us may appreciate this article, specifically
> > > people who are involved with Wikimedia affiliates, grant committees,
> and
> > > WMF Community Engagement including CR and PC
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://nonprofitwithballs.com/2015/06/9-annoying-nonprofit-trends-that-need-to-die/
> > >
> > > Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board

2016-01-06 Thread Thyge
Transparently, I suppose?

Thyge

2016-01-06 19:31 GMT+01:00 Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>:

> Just a note that I am continuing to discuss the subjects of turnover and
> WMF employee morale with Boryana, and I have also asked Lila about this.
>
> Pine
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Craig Franklin <
> cfrank...@halonetwork.net
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > While it's not hard to find a WMF employee who will privately (or
> > > increasingly, not-so-privately) complain of poor morale, I'd be wary of
> > > reading too much into submissions to sites like Glassdoor.  Employees
> > that
> > > are content rarely take the time to report this, so you end up with a
> > > skewed sample consisting largely of the unhappy and demotivated.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Looking a bit further into Glassdoor disproves that theory.
> >
> > For comparison, here are two non-profits of roughly similar size for
> > comparison:
> >
> > * NPR has an approval rating of 4.0 out of 5, based on 96 reviews, with
> 79%
> > saying they would recommend working there to a friend.[1]
> >
> > * The American Enterprise Institute has an approval rating of 4.1 out of
> 5,
> > based on 53 reviews, with 89% saying they would recommend working there
> to
> > a friend.[2]
> >
> > You can find approval ratings in excess of 90% on Glassdoor for some
> large
> > corporates, based on literally thousands of reviews.
> >
> > [1]
> > https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Overview/Working-at-NPR-EI_IE3965.11,14.htm
> > [2]
> >
> https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Overview/Working-at-AEI-EI_IE151782.11,14.htm
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Something

2016-01-03 Thread Thyge
It seams that NDA could by anything (1). Which one is something?

(1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDA

Thyge

2016-01-03 10:02 GMT+01:00 Milos Rancic <mill...@gmail.com>:

> On Jan 3, 2016 09:56, "John Mark Vandenberg" <jay...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Something is covered in NDAs.
>
> I heard quite general notes, that they couldn't be inside of NDAs. And they
> weren't personal, but related to the WMF and WMF leading position inside of
> the movement.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA

2015-03-18 Thread Thyge
I do not think that WMF's filing a suit against NSA should be a starting
point for demanding the WMF to cure all the evils of the World, political
or otherwise
.
Even handling the recognized problems of some minor Wikipedias fall outside
the scope of the WMF.

Wikipedia is the Encyclopedia anyone can edit - except the WMF!
(if they want to uphold their status as service provider).

Regards,
Thyge

2015-03-18 14:03 GMT+01:00 Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com:

 On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:55 PM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 
 
  On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 10:14 PM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 5:53 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
 
  What other unfortunate laws are
  happening elsewhere in the world and how do we track and maybe act on
  those?
 
 
 
  Here is a concrete suggestion:
 
  Reach out to the most reputable human rights organisations.
 
  Starting with the countries at the bottom of the press freedom league
  table, have the human rights organisations form working groups to assess
  the relevant Wikipedia language versions for their coverage of the human
  rights situation in the countries they serve.
 
  If a working group finds that a Wikipedia language version does not
  accurately reflect the government's human rights record, issue a public
  warning that – in the human rights organisations' opinion – the Wikipedia
  in question appears to be subject to undue political manipulation.
 
  Provide funding for this work. Ensure high visibility for the resulting
  reports. Ideally, place a superprotected link to the report in the
  Wikipedia itself.
 
  This will increase the chances that the content will be accurate, while
  relieving pressure on activists in the countries concerned.
 
  Think of it as a Wikipedia freedom index.
 



 One more case to illustrate the need.

 Human Rights Watch summarizes the situation in Uzbekistan[1] as follows:

 ---o0o---

 Uzbekistan’s human rights record is atrocious. Torture is endemic in the
 criminal justice system. Authorities intensified their crackdown on civil
 society activists, opposition members, and journalists. Muslims and
 Christians who practice their religion outside strict state controls are
 persecuted, and freedom of expression is severely limited. The government
 forces more than one million adults and children to harvest cotton under
 abusive conditions. Authorities still deny justice for the 2005 Andijan
 massacre, in which government forces shot and killed hundreds of
 protesters, most of them unarmed. Despite this, the United States and
 European Union continue to advance closer relations with Uzbekistan,
 seeking cooperation with the war in Afghanistan.

 ---o0o---

 Here is the biography of Uzbekistan's president in the Uzbek Wikipedia, as
 translated by Google:


 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=yprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8u=https%3A%2F%2Fuz.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FIslom_Karimovedit-text=

 Even from this broken translation, it is quite evident that this is another
 hagiography, devoid of any hint of criticism. Here are some samples:

 ---o0o---

 ... a well-thought-out program to build the country's economic foundation
 ...

 Karimov initiative promoting global policy is always the best ideas in the
 world, regardless of their point of view, it is known as a person who can
 achieve the desired goal. He has been committed to peace and unity policy.

 Karimov new residential construction, including a great step-by Jolanda
 prosperity of our ancestors, plays an important role in the implementation
 of the economic capacity to build large enterprises, cities, towns, and
 above all, a radical transformation of the capital, Tashkent,
 
 https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1hl=enie=UTF8prev=_trurl=translate.google.comsl=autotl=enu=https://uz.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshkentusg=ALkJrhguDlungYjoz2D8dUf12x2v7u6qjA
 
 supervises
 the work.

 Karimov to establish an independent state and a democratic civil society
 based on the construction of the new century, the main directions of
 development of the country has developed into a bright future in the way of
 the people, it is the great goals.

 ---o0o---

 The English Wikipedia biography of the president[2] mentions dissidents
 being boiled alive.

 Peter Hitchens wrote about this some years ago, in an article titled Our
 new best friends boil dissidents alive.[3]

 Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan were among the countries represented
 at the Turkic Wikimedia Conference 2012, which according to the
 documentation on Meta[4] was coordinated by Wikipedian of the Year
 winners Wikibilim, and financially supported by the Wikimedia Foundation.



 [1] http://www.hrw.org/europecentral-asia/uzbekistan
 [2]
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_Karimov#Human_rights_and_press_freedom
 [3]

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-228241/Our-new-best-friends-boil-dissidents-alive.html
 [4] https

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Patrolling photographs of living people

2015-03-13 Thread Thyge
No more, please. If needed, start a thread to discuss the scope of
wikimedia-l.

Regards,
Thyge

2015-03-13 16:57 GMT+01:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk:

 On 13 March 2015 at 14:32, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'll hold you to this PoV next time I'll feel the need to
  constantly remember other people about my initiatives.

 constantly?

 How many times has Fae made such posts in, say, the last three months?

 --
 Andy Mabbett
 @pigsonthewing
 http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Warning: Wikimedia-l Google Group

2015-01-09 Thread Thyge
No, that is not the case.
I got a confirmation by email about being unsubscribed, and 6 hours later a
new email that I was subscribed again.
Fortunately, this gave me the opportunity to report the group twice.

Regards,
Thyge

2015-01-10 0:05 GMT+01:00 Charles Gregory wmau.li...@chuq.net:

 I believe the problem occurs if you use a gmail (or domain with google
 apps) email address which differs to the email address you were subscribed
 to the list with.  Being a Google service, the group interface tries to use
 your gmail account.  MZ's email method works well!

 If you need the direct link to report the group, you can use
 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/wikimedia-l/abuse.

 Regards,

 Charles / User:Chuq




 On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 5:43 AM, Thyge ltl.pri...@gmail.com wrote:

  My experience is the same :-(
 
  2015-01-09 19:28 GMT+01:00 Ricordisamoa ricordisa...@openmailbox.org:
 
   Thanks for the notice. I unsubscribed some hours ago and got
 resubscribed
   again...
  
   Il 07/01/2015 19:26, Austin Hair ha scritto:
  
You may have already received a message indicating that you've been
   added to the Wikimedia-l Google Group; if not, you likely will soon.
  
   In case it's not clear, this Google Group is in no way affiliated with
   Wikimedia-l, the Wikimedia Foundation, me, or anybody you'd ever want
   to be friends with.
  
   If you do find yourself subscribed, I strongly urge you not to engage
   in any way. Report it to Google (not to me or the list) as an abusive
   subscription using the link at the bottom of the message, and leave it
   be.
  
   If you find yourself being impersonated or wrongly implicated in this
   latest round of troublemaking, don't fret. Nobody will hold it against
   you, and in fact you'll have everyone's sympathies.
  
   Austin
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Warning: Wikimedia-l Google Group

2015-01-09 Thread Thyge
My experience is the same :-(

2015-01-09 19:28 GMT+01:00 Ricordisamoa ricordisa...@openmailbox.org:

 Thanks for the notice. I unsubscribed some hours ago and got resubscribed
 again...

 Il 07/01/2015 19:26, Austin Hair ha scritto:

  You may have already received a message indicating that you've been
 added to the Wikimedia-l Google Group; if not, you likely will soon.

 In case it's not clear, this Google Group is in no way affiliated with
 Wikimedia-l, the Wikimedia Foundation, me, or anybody you'd ever want
 to be friends with.

 If you do find yourself subscribed, I strongly urge you not to engage
 in any way. Report it to Google (not to me or the list) as an abusive
 subscription using the link at the bottom of the message, and leave it
 be.

 If you find yourself being impersonated or wrongly implicated in this
 latest round of troublemaking, don't fret. Nobody will hold it against
 you, and in fact you'll have everyone's sympathies.

 Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Google Groups: You've been added to Gender Gap

2014-12-05 Thread Thyge
I reported the group for spamming. Adding me and others without our consent
and sending unsolicited emails must be stopped somehow.

Regards,
Thyge

2014-12-05 22:12 GMT+01:00 Austin Hair adh...@gmail.com:

 For the record, about an hour ago I permanently banned Site Admin,
 going so far as to create regex filters for his content. And no,
 Russavia, I didn't think it was you.

 Unfortunately, I can't do anything about the individual
 subscriptions—yes, I got one too.

 Austin

 On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Hi all
 
  Below is an email I've just received inviting me to join the Gender Gap
  mailing list. It's sent from russiaviat...@gmail.com and has been
 passing
  off as me.
 
  I mentioned on the Gender Gap mailing list the other day that this was
 not
  me, but now it would appear that email addresses on this mailing list are
  being scraped.
 
  If you receive an email purporting to be from myself and it's not from
 this
  email addy (and with an IINET IP), you can be assured it is not myself.
 If
  I wanted to troll you all, you all know that I have more elaborate ways
 of
  doing this if I really wanted to do that. :)
 
  It could appear from the message they sent it is our Indian friend who is
  doing this; but of course it could be someone joe jobbing them too. Who
  knows, who cares, it's not me all the same.
 
  Cheers
 
  Russavia
 
  -- Forwarded message --
  From: Russavia (Google Groups) gender-gap+nore...@googlegroups.com
  Date: Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 1:08 AM
  Subject: Google Groups: You've been added to Gender Gap
  To: russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com
 
 
  Gender-Gap International spreading Transparency and WikiLove
  --
  I regret that XYZ has thought it necessary to bring his/her personal
  grievance to the Wikimedia-l mailing list now that s/he is unable to make
  such comments on the Wikimedia-XYZ list or the WM-XYZ website. I would
 hope
  that the moderators will consider whether providing a platform for this
  type of attack is conducive to the health of the Wikimedia movement.
  ___
  Michael Maggs
  Chair, Wikimedia UK
 
  About this group:
 
  Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the participation
  of women within Wikimedia projects. We want to encourage you to engage
 with
  others in this effort.
  The owner of the group has set your subscription type as Email,
  meaning that you'll receive a copy of every message posted to the group
 as
  they are posted.  Visit This Group
  http://groups.google.com/d/forum/gender-gap?hl=en
   [image: Visit Google Groups] https://groups.google.com/?hl=en
 
  Start your own group http://groups.google.com/d/creategroup?hl=en,
  unsubscribe
  from this group
  
 http://groups.google.com/d/forum/gender-gap/unsubscribe/1KzA4xQp3EJgqb7qgoVQ1Ojd6d1ig1serHmoKtUOx11h3NXzJA?hl=en
 ,
  or stop invitations like this
  http://groups.google.com/d/optout?hl=en. or report
  spam
  
 http://groups.google.com/d/abuse/YQAAAEwZXucMMHY_I2wAAADPrIBRAUs70uGdiRxE_60cAW3p5LQ?hl=en
 .
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia and Ebola

2014-12-04 Thread Thyge
What a positive and encouraging information. Thanks a lot, James Heilman!

Regards,
Thyge



2014-12-04 15:34 GMT+01:00 James Heilman jmh...@gmail.com:

 Hey All

 I would like to share the following:

 “Wikipedia has been the most widely used single source of information about
 Ebola in the most affected countries, among people who searched for
 information through Bing. The use of Wikipedia was greater than that of
 either CNN, the World Health Organization, or the Center for Disease
 Control during the time periods examined. The countries in question
 include: Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea.

 I have been collaborating with a researcher from microsoft by the name of
 Elad Yom-Tom who has provided this interesting data. We are looking at
 submitting something to a peer reviewed journal soon. Journal will of
 course need to be Open Access, PLoS Medicine or Open BMJ interested?  :-)

 I think this is a real accomplishment for all the amazing individuals and
 organizations that have made Wikipedia what it is today including the many
 dedicated Wikipedians, the Wikimedia Foundation, our collaborators at
 Translators Without Borders, the Cochrane Collaboration, and the University
 of California San Francisco College of Medicine among others. I hope this
 is also encouragement for organizations such as the World Health
 Organisation among others that are not currently engaging with Wikipedia as
 a platform for knowledge sharing to do so.

 --
 James Heilman
 MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

 The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
 www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] $20 donation to WMF for vandalism edit from US House of Representatives

2014-08-01 Thread Thyge
To me, the only thing at stake is the seriousness of this list - and that
is not a new issue, unfortunately.
Regards,
Thyge /Sir48


2014-08-01 21:59 GMT+02:00 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com:

 On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Rjd0060 rjd0060.w...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 
  No, I'm saying this doesn't matter and people should get back to doing
  whatever they feel is actually important.
 
  Let it go.  It really does not matter.  AT ALL.
 
 
 I can't agree. It's clear that lives are at stake, not to mention our
 international reputation and the livelihood of all employees as well as the
 self-esteem of many thousands of contributors. This couldn't possibly be
 more serious.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] AFD survey

2014-07-16 Thread Thyge
the http:// part has been left out.
Correct link is

http://fluidsurveys.com/s/WikipediaSurvey/

Regards
Sir48/Thyge



2014-07-16 8:29 GMT+02:00 Peter Southwood peter.southw...@telkomsa.net:

 Link does not work.
 Cheers,
 Peter

 -Original Message-
 From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
 wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Askin
 Sent: 16 July 2014 04:00 AM
 To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Subject: [Wikimedia-l] AFD survey

 We are looking for Wikipedians to participate in a survey. The survey is
 designed to help us understand group decision-making and Wikipedia’s
 Articles for Deletion (AfD) process. The research is being carried out
 under the terms of the University of Western Ontario - Code of Conduct; it
 will not lead to any sales follow up; no individual (or organization) will
 be identified in our reporting.

 If you are an adult Wikipedian, we would be grateful if you could spare
 approximately 10-15 minutes to complete this survey.

 As a token of our gratitude, for each completed survey we will make a
 charitable donation of CAD$2 to the Wikimedia Foundation. If you have any
 questions, please contact Lu Xiao at lxiao24 (at) uwo.ca.

 To start the survey please click ONCE on the link below: http://
 fluidsurveys.com/s/WikipediaSurvey/

 Please try to complete the survey by August 1, 2014.

 Thank you very much for your time, we really value your input.

 Sincerely,

 UWO Wikipedia Research Team
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 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7858 - Release Date: 07/15/14


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-06-01 Thread Thyge
I agree with Ting's remarks about the importance of the social aspect.
Maybe we need a taskforce against rudeness. But looking into the social
aspect does not exclude improvements on the tech side.

I think that maybe instead of VE we should have an 'invisible editor',
meaning that if someone hits edit, no edit window with syntax shows up, but
the page gets open for marking/inserting some text and change it (like it
is done in wordprocessing programs). To place the change correctly in the
body text or in some highly complicated template should be done by the
wikimedia software without user intervention.

As it is now, even simple changes like correcting a typo or a date often
requires a lot of effort in locating it in the edit window. If it is hidden
inside a template, even a page search does not show it.
Regards,
Thyge


2014-06-01 11:53 GMT+02:00 Ting Chen wing.phil...@gmx.de:

 Hello Risker,

 you have my sympathy, and let me tell you this: I am man and programmer,
 and when I edit articles nowaday I tend to ignore the info boxes and the
 templates at the end of each article. If I create a new article and I
 happen don't have a similar article with the templates and infobox already
 at hand, I simply create an article without both.

 And I think it is essential to tell the beginner to do the same: Don't
 bother with things that are too complicated, it is the content that counts.

 What I also do is help newcomers to wikify articles. I think it is an
 utterly bad habitate just to put a wikify template in a not nicely
 structured article instead of to do something by one self. It is usually
 just a few edits, two '''s, a few [[ and ]]s, and maybe a [[cateogry:...]]
 that can make the difference.

 Personally, there are two reasons that I don't really care about info
 boxes and templates: First it is my own habitate as a user. For me the
 summary at the begin of an article tells me more than the info boxes. Info
 boxes are great for machines, for semantic web or things like that, but as
 a human I am more content with the summary. Second, I am sure that there
 will be at some time some nice and capable people who will put the
 necessary info boxes and templates in the articles I created. I never try
 to start a perfect article (I even never start an article in my own
 sandbox, people can always see my progress in the articles), I just do
 something and then leave it as I am able to.

 In all the discussions about editor retention and new comer barriers there
 is one thing that astonishes me again and again, and that is the whole
 discussion seems to be highly biased on the technical aspect, while the
 social aspect mostly tend to be neglected. People put a HUGE TON of hope in
 the visual editor as if it can resolve everything. But actually I think
 what VE can do is very limited, as far as our rules and our scope don't
 change.

 Nowaday Wikipedia articles (across all major languages) are highly biased
 in style and in content to academic thesis. How references are used and
 put, the criteria for references as valid, are almost one-by-one copied by
 the standards from academic thesis. Content without references are by
 itself considered as delete candidates. Both of these strongly put up
 constraints on who can put new content in Wikipedia and what content is
 considered as viable. I always feel sorrow, that both the Foundation and
 the community neglected the Oral Citation Project lead by Achal (
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Oral_citations ). I believe it has the
 potential to revolutionary how anthropology (and maybe a lot of other
 sciences where field study is necessary) is done just like Wikipedia
 revolutionized how Encyclopedia can be done. And it can really give a lot
 of people, who did not enjoyed the academic training, the possibility to
 contribute their knowledge.

 The other major topic that I see neglected in this whole complex of
 discussion is how our rules are set up. They don't really put on a price or
 punishment against rude behavior. There are a lot of initiative to be
 welcoming and helpful, they are all great, but in the end, one rude comment
 can destroy efforts of two or three welcoming volunteers. Our rules only
 set in if the rude behavior is obvious, but not if they are acid and
 suttle. And people tend to ignore rude behavior if they come from a high
 performer editor.

 Change our attitude to non-academic-content and change our play rule on
 rude behavior is harder than change in technology, this is why people do so
 as if the VE is the holy grale. But it is not. By the start of the last
 strategic period, in the years 2009 and 2010, the Foundation conducted a
 lot of studies about why people leave our community, and Wiki-syntax is
 only one of at least three other reasons. VE is just a tool, tools can be
 used for good or for bad, it is the mind, that decides for which the tools
 are used.

 Greetings
 Ting


 Am 01.06.2014 08:55, schrieb Risker:

  On 1 June 2014 01:39

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Child Protection and Harassment Policy

2014-05-29 Thread Thyge
2014-05-29 7:46 GMT+02:00 Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com:


 * I'm quite capable of thinking for myself. I am truly interested in
 protecting children and preventing harassment. And I'm particularly
 interested in the current state of the policies around these issues as
 the leadership of the WMF changes. Old discussions might contain
 outdated information. I could go on-wiki to see the current policies,
 but I keep having to reply to mails like these that somehow attribute
 a bunch of opinions to me that I've never expressed.

 I'm still trying to understand what I've done wrong here. I've
 basically asked some questions and replied to posts that either were
 directly addressed to me (as yours is here), or made extensive
 reference to me (as some of the mails calling for my blocking). Let me
 ask you a simple question that may help me understand where you are
 coming from: do you find the questions themselves personally
 upsetting?

 Thanks again!
 ,Wil


Wil,
if the discussions are outdated, so are the questions, since they for
years already have been considered at length on-wiki with a lot of
spill-off here.

In order to make progress in any direction, new suggestions that can obtain
consensus are needed. As far as I can see, you raise old questions without
apparently showing interest in the comprehensive past treatment and without
presenting any new point of view or a perspective that points to a
solution. In addition, as I and others have remarked earlier, the
questions basically belong to meta and not on this list.

This is what I feel you 'have done wrong'  and - since that takes away from
my available time and from my reading about other topics here - that
is what upsets me.
Regards,
Thyge
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Child Protection and Harassment Policy

2014-05-28 Thread Thyge
Please raise and discuss questions about policy on meta. This is not the
place.

Regards,
Thyge


2014-05-28 23:54 GMT+02:00 Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com:

 Sorry, the n00b has to step in with a couple of clarifications. :) I
 was asking about 2 separate issues, so no conflation there.

 Also I asked very carefully for *all* sides of the issues: Now, I'll
 just sit back and hear all sides of the story.

 All right, back on topic! :)

 ,Wil

 On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:13 PM, Thomas Morton
 morton.tho...@googlemail.com wrote:
 
  Child Protection- I'd like to hear about ways that policy might be
  changed here to better protect children, especially given some of the
  content on Commons. I'd also like to hear about specific examples of
  content on Commons that a parent might not find appropriate for their
  children. Note that this is not a repeat of the discussion to
  understand what policies are in place, as I have already opened a
  specific thread for that.
 
 
  You seem to have conflated two items here... one is the idea of child
  protection, and the other is of objectionable items on commons. I don't
  think that in any way works.
 
  Our child protection policies are about protecting children when they
  interact online. This is a perennial problem for any internet site, as I
 am
  sure you know. We do have some policies that help a lot (for example,
  admins always err on the side of caution and delete personal details that
  underage editors post). We have avenues to report potential issues such
 as
  grooming.
 
  Could more be done? Yes, I've thought so; for example publicising the
  problem more.
 
  But is WP worse that other communities (note; not site) of similar size?
  Probably not. At least not in my experience (which, of course, is pretty
  extensive given my former job).
 
  Child protection from porn, etc.? I think it's well established that kids
  can come across porn anywhere (apparently, Facebook, if my cousins'
  activity on there are anything to go by :S). And frankly, it's never
 struck
  me as an issue under the umbrella of xhild protection.
 
  How far does policing it become our job and not that of a parent? It's a
  difficult decision... especially when browser-based content filters are
  prevelant and easy to set up.
 
  I've always said; we should educate our users about how to install and
 use
  content filters, as this will benefit them outside WP too!
 
  So then, on the flip side of your comment here you have the global issue
 of
  objectionable images.
 
  This is a much broader issue that the narrow one you're focusing on here.
  For example, one of the main (and by main I mean constant and persistent,
  beyond any complaints of porn!) complaints we see relate to images of the
  prophet mohammed.
 
  How do you, then, feel about Commons hosting images like that?
 
  One of the tenets of the projects are that they are not censored, which I
  think is a good thing. However, we've not yet struck a balance between
  displaying everything and filtering things an individual doesn't want to
  see.
 
  I like the Mohammed example because it emphasises the problem where those
  of us who are not Muslim find a subset of images perfectly okay, but a
  Muslim might not.
 
 
 
 
  Since I don't have enough experience with the community and WP yet to
  discuss controversial topics myself, I will not chime in unless the
  thread has very obviously gone off topic. Just to pick an arbitrary
  about of time that is more than the few months that others have
  mentioned here, let's say that you can only participate in this
  discussion if you have at least one year of experience as an active
  contributor.
 
 
  I'm not sure what purpose it serves to bring up controversial topics, in
  this forum, with an express note that you have nothing new to bring? ;)
 
  Not to be too critical; but do you imagine that these issues aren't being
  discussed on the various projects - hopefully with incremental
 improvement
  each time. Or that individuals here are not aware of them?
 
  More than anything though, I'm sure you're an experienced internet chap -
  what did you expect to recieve in stirring up two relatively ingrained
  sides? It wasn't very deft, I have to observe :)
 
  One thing it might be important to communicate is that whilst this list
 is
  useful for global discussion, it's not a venue that any agreement or
  consensus is reached. So these discussions are really best conducted
  on-wiki. I'm not sure if you've actually attempted to open such topics on
  any of the projects, but the discussion you appear to be looking for can
  really only happen there (rather than here, or IRC, for example).
 
  Regards,
  Tom
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikidata vs Wikipedia

2014-05-20 Thread Thyge
Something seems to have gone wrong. According to the list, en:wikipedia
specifies the birth date of Jimmy
Waleshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Walesas being 1966-08-08,
where in fact Wikipedia has the (sourced) date August
7, 1966 which is identical to the date in Wikidata.

Regards,
Thyge


2014-05-20 9:33 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com:

 Hoi,
 Amir Ladsgroup has developed reports that show differences between the date
 of birth and the date of death as known in the English Wikipedia and
 Wikidata.

 Such differences may be wrong in either Wikidata or Wikipedia. They are the
 ones that need attention, they are the ones where sources makes a real
 difference.

 At this stage Amir is finalising the code. Given that this software can run
 repeatedly, the results will change when the software l earns about changes
 in either Wikidata or Wikipedia.

 One practical question is where should these reports be located. It can be
 in both Wikipedia and Wikidata. It is likely that many similar reports
 reporting on different statements will become available.
 Thanks,
  GerardM


 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Ladsgroup/Birth_date_report/Conflict_with_Wikidata

 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Ladsgroup/Death_date_report/Conflict_with_Wikidata

 http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2014/05/wikipedia-vs-wikidata-qualitative.html
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] COM:IDENT?

2014-05-20 Thread Thyge
What a kind communication! It gives me the impression that you are afraid
to discuss matters outside of Commons.

The special role of Commons as a joint resource should occationally allow
concerns to be raised outside the community of commonites. If concerns are
not of a general nature, please at least deal with them in a friendly
manner.

Regards,
Thyge



2014-05-20 17:51 GMT+02:00 Pipo Le Clown plecl...@gmail.com:

 You didn't get the answer you wanted, so you're forum shopping to get the
 right one ? How nice of you.
  Le 20 mai 2014 17:37, Jeevan Jose jkadav...@gmail.com a écrit :

 
 
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Odderoldid=124445321#Commons_talk:Nudity
 
  Is this the way Commons:Photographs of identifiable people works?
 
  Regards,
  Jee
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Botopedia?

2014-02-04 Thread Thyge
 A great tip would be to avoid changing this thread into a personal
attack on Risker or anybody else.
Thank you.
Thyge/Sir48

2014-02-04 Fæ fae...@gmail.com:
 On 4 February 2014 17:48, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 4 February 2014 12:27, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Risker, 04/02/2014 17:59:

 doesn't deserve to have his case reheard on this mailing list

 Risker, here's a great tip: If you *really* do not want the case
 reheard, then why not just stop emailing and publicising the case,
 repeating the name of the accused and providing links in an attempt to
 prove some point or other. Try spending your volunteer time welcoming
 a few new Wikipedia editors instead of banning contributors and making
 life ghastly for those who are under your hammer.

 I welcomed and helped many thousands of newer en.wp contributors
 during the time I was an admin. Even after the machinations of a few
 individuals shot my reputation to hell and got me banned from what was
 my home project for many years, I still helped Wikipedians with tricky
 problems behind the scenes; in fact my highly publicised case made me
 someone that those upset and having difficulties with our arcane
 processes could turn to in confidence, in a way that most trusted
 users do not have the real life experience and grey hairs to offer.
 Having authority is not all about dishing it out, or even having the
 badges to prove you must be respected.

 Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Thyge
I'm not into the technicalities, but to hide ip's entirely on the sites
would be the biggest advance in improving privacy I can think of...

regards,
Thyge - Sir49


2014/1/13 Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org

 On 01/13/2014 12:19 AM, Tim Starling wrote:
  Not as fast as revisions, and we seem to cope with those.

 Fair enough.

 So you'd implicitly create the user, track it by cookie?  With some well
 designed UX this'd work well and hide IPs entirely (and allow users that
 do create an account to retroactively rename their contribs).

 Wouldn't that affect caching though?

 -- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF employee writing articles for $300

2014-01-06 Thread Thyge
I'm not in principle against transparent paid editing, but it could
actually be considered to violate the ToU's wording: misrepresenting your
affiliation with any individual or entity

Regards,
Sir48


2014/1/6 Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com

 Sure, Todd. But that is not actually in the Wikimedia terms of use. The
 terms of use say,


- Attempting to impersonate another user or individual, misrepresenting
your affiliation with any individual or entity, or using the username of
another user with the intent to deceive;


 They do not say,


- Attempting to impersonate another user or individual, misrepresenting
your affiliation with any individual or entity, or *using more than
username* with the intent to deceive;


 That whole section is about impersonating other people, making out that you
 represent someone you do not represent, etc. Silence as to one's
 affiliations and identity has always been permitted on Wikimedia projects.

 Andreas


 On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Todd Allen toddmal...@gmail.com wrote:

  They are, however, avoiding scrutiny, as evidenced by widespread
  disapproval of their actions. That is not a permissible use of socks. The
  community expects to place more scrutiny on paid editors, not less.
  On Jan 6, 2014 6:23 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   That doesn't follow to me from that wording, Nathan. The English
  Wikipedia
   for example allows socking to enable contributors to contribute to
  articles
   that they would rather not have their real-life name or normal Internet
   persona associated with.
  
   User:John Smith is allowed to create an account named
   User:ColourfulCharacter to edit those articles. In doing so, he is not
   using the username *of another user* with the intent to deceive.
  
   There is no other user of that name. (The only exception would be if
  there
   were a user called User:ColorfulCharacter, say, and Smith's intent was
 to
   create confusion between the two accounts.)
  
   User:John Smith is using a secondary screen name to obscure the fact
 that
   both accounts are operated by the same person. And that is allowed.
  
   I don't even see that Wiki-PR infringed the letter of that section, as
 a
   normal person would read it. Just like John Smith, they did not use the
   name of some other user. They created multiple accounts. There was no
  other
   user whose username they used, or whom they tried to impersonate.
  
  
   On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:
  
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   
 Nathan,

 I am unable to find a mention of sockpuppetry in the Terms of Use,
whether
 in Section 4 or elsewhere.

 http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use

 I don't think there could be such a mention, really, given that
  project
 policies recognise a number of legitimate uses of socks.

 A.


The term isn't used, but the behavior is clearly encompassed by the
prohibition described in the Engaging in False Statements,
  Impersonation
or Fraud - specifically using the username of another user with the
intent to deceive.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF employee writing articles for $300

2014-01-06 Thread Thyge
To edit is to say something, Andreas Kolbe.

To me it is very fortunate that the right to anonymity takes presedence
over COI-editing. Edits can be changed or removed, a personal identity
cannot.
Regards,
Sir48



2014/1/6 Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com

 Well, if you don't say anything, Sir48, you are not misrepresenting
 anything, are you?

 It's a path many people have chosen in Wikipedia. They just remain silent.
 The right to remain silent about who you are and who you work for is
 enshrined in the principle of anonymity.

 People (including the English Wikipedia's arbitration committee) have long
 said that the policies guaranteeing the right to edit anonymously are in
 tension with the guidelines discouraging editing with a conflict of
 interest, and that the conflict between these two sets of policies and
 guidelines is imperfectly resolved.

 And in the final analysis, the English Wikipedia's policy against
 harassment and outing takes precedence over the conflict-of-interest
 guideline.

 At any rate, conflict-of-interest editing is discouraged, but not forbidden
 in the English Wikipedia, while posting another editor's employer is a
 banning offence (unless the editor has previous disclosed it himself on
 Wikipedia).

 That this creates a lucrative market for companies like Wiki-PR should not
 come as a surprise.

 While non-transparent paid editing does not seem to me to violate the
 Wikimedia terms of use, transparent paid editing clearly does not violate
 them either. Surely, the way forward lies that way.

 But while the German Wikipedia community for example is quite welcoming to
 paid editors who act transparently – the German Wikipedia even has verified
 company accounts like User:Coca_Cola_Germany – the English Wikipedia
 community is exceedingly hostile to such users, to the point of blocking
 company account names *on sight*, with the result that many such editors
 prefer to fly under the radar, using a made-up name and the shield of the
 anonymity policy.

 Andreas


 On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 6:16 PM, Thyge ltl.pri...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'm not in principle against transparent paid editing, but it could
  actually be considered to violate the ToU's wording: misrepresenting
 your
  affiliation with any individual or entity
 
  Regards,
  Sir48
 
 
  2014/1/6 Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com
 
   Sure, Todd. But that is not actually in the Wikimedia terms of use. The
   terms of use say,
  
  
  - Attempting to impersonate another user or individual,
  misrepresenting
  your affiliation with any individual or entity, or using the
 username
  of
  another user with the intent to deceive;
  
  
   They do not say,
  
  
  - Attempting to impersonate another user or individual,
  misrepresenting
  your affiliation with any individual or entity, or *using more than
  username* with the intent to deceive;
  
  
   That whole section is about impersonating other people, making out that
  you
   represent someone you do not represent, etc. Silence as to one's
   affiliations and identity has always been permitted on Wikimedia
  projects.
  
   Andreas
  
  
   On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Todd Allen toddmal...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  
They are, however, avoiding scrutiny, as evidenced by widespread
disapproval of their actions. That is not a permissible use of socks.
  The
community expects to place more scrutiny on paid editors, not less.
On Jan 6, 2014 6:23 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:
   
 That doesn't follow to me from that wording, Nathan. The English
Wikipedia
 for example allows socking to enable contributors to contribute to
articles
 that they would rather not have their real-life name or normal
  Internet
 persona associated with.

 User:John Smith is allowed to create an account named
 User:ColourfulCharacter to edit those articles. In doing so, he is
  not
 using the username *of another user* with the intent to deceive.

 There is no other user of that name. (The only exception would be
 if
there
 were a user called User:ColorfulCharacter, say, and Smith's intent
  was
   to
 create confusion between the two accounts.)

 User:John Smith is using a secondary screen name to obscure the
 fact
   that
 both accounts are operated by the same person. And that is allowed.

 I don't even see that Wiki-PR infringed the letter of that section,
  as
   a
 normal person would read it. Just like John Smith, they did not use
  the
 name of some other user. They created multiple accounts. There was
 no
other
 user whose username they used, or whom they tried to impersonate.


 On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:

  On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Andreas Kolbe 
 jayen...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   Nathan,
  
   I am unable to find a mention of sockpuppetry in the Terms of
  Use

[Wikimedia-l] Ombudsman commission activity report

2013-07-15 Thread Thyge
Please note that a report about the activities of the Ombudsman commision,
covering the months February through June, 2013, has now been published on
Meta.

The report can be found here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission/Report_Feb-Jun_2013

Looing forward to hearing any remarks!

On behalf of the Commision,
Sir48 / Thyge
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