Re: [Wikimedia-l] If you are passionate about world hunger, sustainability and global issues please read this

2013-06-17 Thread Deryck Chan
Wouldn't this fall within the scope of [[WP:Outlines]] already, and
therefore doesn't need its sister project? Future developments of Wikidata
will make it even easier for such articles on Wikipedia to be updated.

On 17 June 2013 19:56, Alex Peek alexpe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Homepage: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_Economic_Map

 The goal of this project is to improve public understanding economic data
 and serve public administration.

 It's time that we create a standardized model that everyone can understand
 and relate to. Given the challenges that our world faces today, our
 civilization must realize the economic reality that we live in. Global
 warming, world hunger, education and unemployment are all economic issues
 that require a new perspective.

 The voting public must be provided the materials to properly allocate
 resources. We can end world hunger with foreign aid. We can create a modern
 day renaissance by building schools around the world. We should put more
 public money RD into renewable energies and create a cheaper alternative.
 The world must understand wake up to the reality.

 This format can be repeated for all 196 countries, every locality and city.
 There can also be a standardized format for every company (model does not
 exist yet).


 Countries ranked by 2011 GDP

 1. United States:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/Economy_of_the_United_States

 2. China:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/Economy_of_China

 3. Japan:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/Economy_of_Japan

 4. Germany:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/Economy_of_Germany

 5. France:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/Economy_of_France

 6. Brazil:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/Economy_of_Brazil

 7. United Kingdom

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom

 8. Italy

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/Economic_summary_of_Italy

 9. India

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/Economic_summary_of_India

 10. Russia

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/Economic_summary_of_Russia
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] SOPA related bill in Taiwan

2013-06-04 Thread Deryck Chan
So will there be a Wikipedia blackout?
PS. June 4 is the perfect date for such protests :)

On 3 June 2013 23:42, Tilman Bayer tba...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 The EFF reports that this announcement by Taiwanese Wikimedians does
 appear to have had an effect:

 https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/taiwanese-users-thwart-government-plans-introduce-internet-blacklist-law

 Taiwanese users were going to stage an Internet black out on Tuesday
 June 4th. Several websites, including Wikipedia Taiwan and Mozilla
 Taiwan pledged to go dark in order to raise awareness. ... After
 several news outlets reported that the new initiative was akin to
 mainland China’s “Great Firewall,” the Taiwanese intellectual property
 office made an effort to reject the comparison ... In the face of
 these criticisms and the planned blackout, the Taiwan Intellectual
 Property Office abandoned this severe copyright law.


 On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 6:43 AM, Ted Chien hsiangtai.ch...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  My dear colleagues,
 
  Recently on May 21 the Taiwan Intellectual Property Office has announced
  that they will amend the Copyright Act to demand local ISPs to block
  illegal contents on foreign websites, just like the SOPA bill in USA last
  year. For more information, you can read the following news reports:
 
  Focus Taiwan:
  http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aall/201305210035.aspx
 
  ZDNet:
 
 http://www.zdnet.com/cn/taiwans-copyright-act-amendment-proposal-comes-under-fire-715943/
 
  Now there are many Taiwan netizens protesting the bill:
 
 
 http://globalvoicesonline.org/2013/05/26/netizens-fear-copyright-amendment-will-bring-web-filter-system-to-taiwan/
 
  But today we just see an news that TIPO just ignored these protests and
  insist that this bill will not harm the net freedom and rights of general
  users:
 
  http://newtalk.tw/news/2013/05/28/36854.html (it's in Chinese, you may
 use
  Google translate to read the news.)
 
  Indeed we should protect the copyright, but to ask ISPs to block websites
  is too over-reaction.
 
  We Wikimedia Taiwan is now against the bill and has just released an
  Chinese announcement on our official website to explain why we against
 the
  bill and ask the government to stop the act:
 
  http://bit.ly/ZbvTX0
 
  We also started an discussion on zh.wp to ask the community if we could
 put
  the announcement as an global site notice, we even think about blackout
  zh.wp for 24 hours (the date is still in discussion):
 
  http://goo.gl/fXi8g
 
  This is because according to Alexa.com (http://Alexa.com), Wikipedia is
 now
  the top 10 website in Taiwan. To blackout Wikipedia in Taiwan should get
  the attention of TIPO and has some effects.
 
  My questions are:
 
  * Could we ask for blackout Wikipedia (not just zh.wp) ONLY for Taiwan
 IP?
  (Some users from China hope this blackout will not effect them)
  * If we could not blackout Wikipedia only for Taiwan IP, could we ask to
  blackout zh.wp? (from what we have discussed on zh.wp, the Chinese
  community has agreed on such blackout, but the date is still on
 discussion)
  * If we could implement such blackout, how soon it can be done?
  * What suggestions from you that we should do as an local Chapter?
 
  Thanks and Regards,
  Ted Chien
  Chairman
  Wikimedia Taiwan
  --
  Blog: htttp://htchien.tw (http://htchien.tw/)
  Facebook: http://facebook.com/htchien
  Twitter: http://twitter.com/htchien
  LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/htchien
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 --
 Tilman Bayer
 Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications)
 Wikimedia Foundation
 IRC (Freenode): HaeB

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[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimania-l] Proposed prohibition of local uploads and deletion of non-free-licence working documents of Wikimedia events

2013-06-03 Thread Deryck Chan
Following this discussion up, I've proposed an exemption doctrine policy
for Meta: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Exemption_doctrine_policy

On 29 May 2013 17:24, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Crossed to Wikimedia-l, see Deryck's e-mail below.

 On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Dear Wikimania community,
 
  There are currently two discussions on Meta which will have a fundamental
  impact on the technical logistics of all future Wikimania bids.
 
  As many of you would know, working documents of Wikimania bids, such as
  letters of support and venue information, are conventionally uploaded to
  Meta locally because they don't come with a Commons-compatible free
 licence.
  However, currently there's no explicit exemption doctrine policy on
 Meta,
  so two discussions are ongoing, with the aim of deleting all
  Wikimania-related non-free files which have been uploaded in the past
  years[1], and to ban future uploads of non-free media to Meta including
  Wikimedia events' working documents[2].
 
  [1]
 
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_deletion#All_files_in_Category:Unfree_Wikimania_bid_media_files
  [2]
 
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Babel#Restrict_or_abolish_local_file_uploading_to_Meta-Wiki
 
  Since this would mean future Wikimania bids may not include copies of
  third-party working documents on Meta, these proposals will change the
  logistics of Wikimania bids completely. I therefore urge all of you to
  scrutinise the proposed changes and comment as appropriate.
 
  Deryck
  WM2013 local team
 
  PS. To those of you who also run chapters: the proposed changes will mean
  that chapter financial statements may not be uploaded to / will be
 deleted
  from WMF-hosted wikis since they're have an implicit no-derivative
  requirement.
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage logo

2013-06-02 Thread Deryck Chan
MZM,

This time misses the point of risk management - it's all probabilistic
rather than deterministic. It is totally reasonable for WMF to have judged
that the differences between the two logos are large enough that a
trademark claim is sufficiently *unlikely* to happen. But outliers do occur
and in this case WTO chose (against perceived odds) to make a claim. And
it's totally reasonable, too, for the WMF to now judge that the risks of
going to court about this logo isn't worth fighting.

Saying that WMF must've made a mistake last time because they allowed the
logo in the first place but then gave in on the trademark claim simply
misses the point.

Deryck
(Putting his engineer hat on. Ironically engineers typically fight against,
not defend, lawyers when they invoke arguments from statistical science.)
On 1 Jun 2013 15:22, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:

 Craig Franklin wrote:
 I'm sure that the legal team has done their homework on this and would not
 have made this recommendation unless they felt that the WTO had a credible
 argument.  Asking the Foundation to play chicken with the lawyers of a
 major international organisation over a trademark claim on a relatively
 new and easily replaced logo of ours does not offer a very good
 risk/reward ratio in my view.

 You mean has done their homework on this this time, right? The General
 Counsel position is one of the oldest in the Wikimedia Foundation and the
 Legal and Community Advocacy team certainly existed before the previous
 Wikivoyage logo contest. If this were an issue, you'd think someone
 would've said something six months ago. And, of course, there's no
 shortage of trademark, patent, or copyright trolls in the world. I've seen
 both logos and while they're obviously similar, I'm sure there are a great
 number of lawyers who could make a number of arguments as to why there's
 no real issue here. Anyone can send a cease and desist letter, right?

 Presenting a logo selection procedure from a black box and then trying to
 pressure the community to accept it as global policy within ten days
 doesn't seem appropriate to me. Ten days is being very generous, as the
 draft procedure is only fully translated into two languages at the moment
 and we're fast approaching June 2.

 There are also at least a few Wikivoyagers who are concerned that the
 active participants of Wikivoyage weren't properly enfranchised during the
 last logo contest. That is, there's a concern that the people most
 involved with Wikivoyage will get drowned out by the much larger Wikimedia
 community in any contest of this nature. This needs further thought,
 deliberation, and discussion; however this is being rushed by an
 apparently hard deadline from the Wikimedia legal team to change the
 Wikivoyage logo no later than July 31. This isn't a great situation to be
 in.

 I would think some of these issues would be of concern to you. This isn't
 about asking anyone to play chicken. It's about ensuring that communities
 are free to choose their own identity.

 MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Approval of Wikimedians of Nepal user group

2013-05-30 Thread Deryck Chan
Congratulations Ganesh and the Nepal team! Are there plans to move on and
transition to an incorporated Wikimedia chapter?
Deryck

On 30 May 2013 17:32, Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dear all,

 I am happy to inform you that the Affiliations Committee has approved the
 recognition of a Wikimedia User Group today:  Wikimedians of Nepal.

 Please join me in welcoming this new group into the fold of Wikimedia
 entities, and let's celebrate their success and hard work as Wikipedia
 turns eleven in Nepal!

 == Wikimedians of Nepal ==

 Wikimedians of Nepal http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Nepal is a
 group of enthusiastic Nepali Wikimedians working towards developing and
 promoting Wikimedia projects in Nepal. They've been actively working to
 help expand the community, launch projects in more languages of Nepal and
 promote and support the existing ones.

 The group is working towards chapterhood, and have a good chance of
 attaining that status this year. Granting them user group recognition
 allows the movement to express its appreciation for their hard work even
 while they are working on the bureaucratic aspects of meeting the
 requirements of chapterhood. The timing is fortuitous  in that the group is
 going to mark the 11th anniversary of Wikipedia in a Nepali language on 3
 June, next Monday.

 Ganesh, the group's interim president has been invited to this year's Milan
 conference, where he gave a comprehensive overview of the group's history,
 its projects (including a successful 'wikiwomen programme) and its
 ambitions. The slides are at:
 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/WMNepal_WMC_2013.pdf

 The Affiliations Committee's
 recognition
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Wikimedians_of_Nepal_-_May_2013
 is
 valid until 28 May 2014, or until they are recognized as a chapter.


 == Wikimedia User Groups ==

 Wikimedia User Groups are one of the three new types of affiliations
 created last year to empower volunteers wanting to conduct offline work and
 provide them recognition from the Wikimedia movement.

 User group status is meant to be an easy form of affiliation, where the
 main requirements are an agreed goal, plans for offline work, at least
 three people participating and a public wiki page with all the relevant
 information).

 Under the movement roles
 recommendations
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_affiliation_models/User_Groups
 , user groups are to be recognized in a quick and easy process directly by
 the Affiliations Committee, for a fixed, renewable time-period and they are
 to enjoy limited trademark use and simplified access to grants.



 Best regards,
 Bence Damokos
 Chair, Affiliatons Committee
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)

2013-05-28 Thread Deryck Chan
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com wrote:


  Personally I think this line of the conversation (people resigning/fired)
  is taking the situation a bit too far.
  At the least not having volunteers administer the WMF's wiki is just
  punishment already.
 
  It seems that the WMF is unlikely to change its policy, so the best they
  can do to heal the hurt caused by their action is to apologise (and
 perhaps
  explain their reasons), which they have done.
  If they had restored the admin rights, that would have healed some part
 of
  the hurt but not all of it, and the affected volunteers would still have
  the option to punish the WMF by not caring about their wiki (i.e. the
  same situation the WMF has chosen for itself). Apart from this
 tit-for-tat
  satisfaction and giving enough time to heal and restore the trusts and
  relationships, I do not think that further debating this decision would
  lead to any good results.
 
  I have the feeling that we will not get more satisfactory answers as the
  line of questioning going on creates a situation where the WMF can only
  defend themselves - I am sure they have shared their best arguments that
  can be published and the harder they are pushed the more likely they are
  going to scramble to make up further reasons (instead of either changing
  the decision or admitting that they had no better reasons) a situation
 that
  is unlikely to improve the situation in the way the questioners hope.[1]
 
  I would recommend for those personally hurt by the WMF's decision to
  accept the WMF's apology, stay in the movement but if they feel any
  satisfaction in it, mete out the punishment of not caring about the WMF's
  wiki, and move on. The people working at the WMF are multidimensional
  persons, one mistake does not define them and I am sure the existing
  relationships will be healed through other channels of interaction and
  working together.
 
  For those of us who were not hurt (this time), I think it would be
 helpful
  if we moved the discussions towards more constructive areas: for example,
  helping come up with some guidelines on community-WMF interactions,
  including suggestions on best timing of news and the appropriate level
 and
  venue of consultations before major decisions, and making sure this kind
 of
  training is provided to WMF employees.
 
  Best regards,
  Bence
 
 
  [1] It is just an intuition, but I fear that this property of some
  questions (their pre-coded response) can be lowering the quality of
 some
  of the other community review discussions (FDC, GAC, AffCom) that rely on
  the QA format.


Yes. Because ten years ago the community set WMF's agenda. But nowadays WMF
staff sets the community's agenda and presents them as a done deal. Hurtful
examples from the last year or two are now springing into my mind like a
fountain.

Deryck


 
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some interesting thing about our friend User:Shujenchang

2013-05-18 Thread Deryck Chan
Addis:
从我来看,事情大概已经解决了,没必要小题大做。家丑不出外扬。在一个这么公开的环境里面谈论中文维基百科的小事,实在不适合。
翘仔

On 18 May 2013 19:30, AddisWang addiswan...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Everyone

 There may be no reason for me to post a Blocking Notification to the mail
 list, but this thing will absolutely  let you feel shocked which I think
 it's necessary to reveal what kind of people working with us, and even
 making important decision.

 User:Shujenchang, as know as User:ZH979433, who announced to quit the
 Chinese Wikipedia after local CheckUsers were elected. But coincidentally,
 the person who was strongly against the the ZHWP has local CheckUser, was
 checked and blocked for his disgusting and abominable behavior.

 User:Shujenchang stole his ex-boyfriend's Wikipedia account and vandalize
 Wikipedia because of the broken relationship. By considering his
 announcement that forever quit ZHWP, User:BenMQ only blocked him in one
 month to warning. People will lose control in sometimes, it might be too
 unfriendly if presuming his moral quality only by this. When we thought
 User: Shujenchang will leave ZHWP and things turn to good, another crazy
 thing happened.

 User:Shujenchang post personal attacks on his ex-boyfriend by using the
 account of User:Ltdccba when Ltdccba went to the restroom and left his
 laptop. By using others' trust, User:Shujenchang framed the person who took
 him as friend. Was checked twice, I finally understand why User:Shujenchang
 tried to stop the election of local CheckUser.

 His account was blocked right now by User:BenMQ. But this friend still
 try to do something on Wikimedia. Please be aware of this thing, who knows
 who is next EX or next Ltdccba.

 The first Blocking Notification:
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Shujenchang#Blocking_Notification_on_ZHWP
 Meta User Page: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Shujenchang
 Voting Members of the Wikimania 2014 Jury:
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014_jury
 Blocking information on zhwp:
 http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:%E5%B0%81%E7%A6%81%E7%94%A8%E6%88%B7/ZH979433
 User:Ltdccba's explanation:
 https://zh.wikipedia.org/?oldid=26580664#.E8.AF.B7.E4.B8.8D.E8.A6.81.E4.BB.BF.E7.85.A7IP.E7.94.A8.E6.88.B7.E7.AD.BE.E5.90.8D

 Sorry if disturbing!

 Best Wishes!

 Addis Wang
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board candidates page: please set as a subject of translation

2013-05-14 Thread Deryck Chan
Hello. Meta now supports automatic conversion between different regional
variants of standard Chinese. Can someone disable translation to zh-hans,
zh-hant, zh-hk, and zh-tw? Otherwise we'll end up with 4 redundant
translations.

On 14 May 2013 17:38, Benjamin Chen bencmqw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi guys,

 Before I saw the reply, I went ahead and tagged the page for translation,
 including Francis's statement.
 I have learnt and realised that it wasn't the best idea to translate that
 part just yet. Thanks Thehelpfulone, I've reverted that section. Sorry.

 The other parts of the two new statements are ready for translation.

 Regards,

 Benjamin Chen / [[User:Bencmq]]

 On 15 May, 2013, at 12:26 AM, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Hi Takashi,
 
  Thanks for the reminder. I saw that Francis had his statement trimmed
  by Philippe in his capacity as a Board Election Committee member
  because it was over the character limit so decided not to mark it for
  translation until he had the opportunity to rewrite it, so as to not
  waste the valuable time of translators. I also waited to mark Jeromy's
  candidacy for translation as he was making a couple of changes the
  other day but just confirmed with him that he has finished making
  tweaks to his statement.
 
  If the election committee don't get round to it, I'll mark Jeromy's
  statement for translation later today but will follow up with Francis
  before making his statement for translation - I don't think it's fair
  for translators to translate a statement that could be considerably
  tweaked (and would need re-translating).
 
  ---
  Thehelpfulone
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone
 
  On 14 May 2013, at 16:05, Takashi OTA supertakot+foundatio...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Hi all,
 
  Could anybody (maybe admin on meta) set recent changes of the
  board candidates page as a subject to translation, so that we can
  translate candidacies of Francis and Jeromy-Yu with the translation
 tool?
 
 
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/Board_elections/2013/Candidates
 
  --Takashi
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Deryck Chan
In such resolutions, one always budget for the maximum plausible cost and
then underspend. It is rather unhelpful to look at the budgeted amount and
shout at it as if it's the actual amount spent.

PS. Jealous? Run for the forthcoming elections. Winners of those elections
also get to travel to Hong Kong for Wikimania 2013, expenses paid for by
WMF. I look forward to seeing you in Hong Kong :)

On 13 May 2013 20:30, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,

 It recently came to my attention by way of this blog by Odder
 (http://twkozlowski.net/how-40k-dollars-turned-to-petty-cash/) that
 the AffCom approved a $40,000 budget to send 9 of their members to HKG
 in August (the 10th member lives in HKG). The issue was raised at

 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Affiliations_Committee#.2440.2C000_Hong_Kong_junket.3F
 (I see the words transparent being used there a lot).

 The budget request resolution was then published a

 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Budget_request_for_2013_annual_meeting_%E2%80%93_April_2013
 - discussion has carried on at

 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Budget_request_for_2013_annual_meeting_%E2%80%93_April_2013

 What we are seeing is that there is a lot evasive answers, with
 questions not really being answered. After asking about accommodation,
 it's been advised that AffCom is basically budgeting approximately
 US$12,600 towards accommodation (based upon NINE single rooms for 7
 nights at a cost of $200 per night). This, I feel, is an outrageous
 amount of money to be spending. There is no reason that twin rooms can
 not be used (i.e. 2 per room); or less luxurious accommodation can
 be booked.

 I understand that the guys on AffCom might feel like they are being
 singled out here, but given that they are members of the community,
 first and foremost, they should be open to such criticism on their
 spending. It's unfortunate that none of the 9 feel it necessary to
 comment there, given all the talk of transparency.

 Perhaps some gentle nudges from others in the community (especially
 those involved with Chapter wikipolitics) could get this particular
 committee to understand that although WMF is flush with cash, this is
 simply not on. I'll leave other issues which have been raised to
 others. Odder's latest blog at
 http://twkozlowski.net/saving-by-spending-according-to-affcom/ might
 be of interest.

 Cheers,

 Russavia

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-11 Thread Deryck Chan
Given the foundation's recent tsunami of centralisation I'm not surprised
by this at all. The message is clear - the community doesn't belong here.
Go back to meta.

I'll be interested to see how long the WMF wiki will last before they hit
their first massive technical problem happens and they need to call in a
volunteer to fix it.

Deryck

On 11 May 2013 12:15, K. Peachey p858sn...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is the email that got sent out to everyone,

 ---
 Dear XXX,
 Thank you for your work with the Foundation wiki.  At this time, we
 are formalizing a new requirement, which is that administrator access
 is given only to staff and board.  I am having administrator access to
 accounts that are neither staff or board be disabled, effective
 immediately.
 Sincerely,
 Gayle
 --
 Gayle Karen K. Young
 Chief Talent and Culture Officer
 Wikimedia Foundation
 415.310.8416
 www.wikimediafoundation.org
 ---

 Gayle's response (which was the first time she has edited the wiki in
 ~5 months[2]) seems lacking[1] in general and the subsequent responses
 about knowing what these people do on the wiki

 Another interesting fact is that Mz got desysoped first, When you
 would expect it to be done in alphabetically order.

 We've been discussing this for awhile, and the thought is that it's
 ultimately the Foundation's web presence, not the community's web
 presence. A useful parallel to consider might be how userrights are
 given to staffers on the community wikis; they're distributed as and
 when they're needed for a specific task.

 Um, Rights for staff on wikis are given out like candy?, although not
 as much thee days but it still happens.

 Also, How is the foundation wiki not apart of the community? Has the
 position of the legal department changed? or the boards? just randomly
 changing without any imput or discussions seems utlimately strange.
 since it is actually their wiki (just like everything else that falls
 under the foundation)

 [1]. 
 https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?diff=91857oldid=91855#Users_stripped_of_rights.3F
 
 [2]. 
 https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributionstarget=Gyoung
 
 [3]. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Special:Log/rights

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Deryck Chan
On 30 April 2013 09:48, Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org wrote:



 Yes I read your reply, but you keep stating we want, that is not that
 same as together with the grant giver we agreed… I cannot overstate the
 importance of the difference between the two…

 People don't instantly agree on everything. There is always something the
WMF grants team can disagree with anyone, if they so choose to. I'm
referring to the sequence of events here (grant report accepted, then
eligibility announced, then suddenly disqualification happened because the
settlement of remaining funds hasn't been agreed to), not the nature. We
all agree that the leftover grant funds eventually need to be settled by an
agreement between WMF and WMHK.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-30 Thread Deryck Chan
On 30 April 2013 10:22, Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hey Florence

 On Apr 30, 2013, at 1:12 AM, Florence Devouard anthe...@yahoo.com wrote:

  Le 4/30/13 12:04 AM, Nathan a écrit :
 
 
  It's not logical to assume that because the WMF has funds it should in
  some way equitably distribute those funds around the world.
 
  What happens to the idea according to which the funds belong to the
 Wikimedia mouvement rather than to Wikimedia Foundation ?

 Please note that you are disagreeing with Nathan, not with others (like me
 and as far as I know the entire board) who have supported the idea of the
 FDC because it is a great way to ensure that the funds are distributed
 amongst the movement in the interest of the movement. The funds are those
 of the movement, and although we might disagree on how the funds are
 divided we agree on that. I am happy to see that the FDC as a body (and the
 community review process as a important addition) ensures much more
 transparent processes.

 
  Supporting
  chapter operations, and funding offices and staff in dozens of
  countries, is not the chief object of the money raised from donors. We
  need to get away from the belief that chapters are unquestionably the
  best use of movement resources. There is a place for outreach,
  publicity, and targeted educational programs. But the WMF is best
  situated to supplement the efforts begun by volunteers, in the same
  way the WMF itself was created and has grown.
 
  I would object to the idea that WMF is best situated to supplement
 efforts started by volunteers and that statement parts from the decision
 made some months ago to deflate WMF role.
  But we may agree to disagree on this.

 I would agree with you here. I think that the WMF is in a good position to
 help certain initiatives and that in several cases there are better
 alternatives. This is why I am so excited about chapters helping chapters
 and all affiliations being able to join the wikimedia conference in Milan
 this year. It is that kind of exchange of experience which is perfect for
 all involved, and lets remember that what works for some might not work for
 others.

 
  Additionnaly... I must add that when WMF was precisely at the current
 stage of most chapters (with no staff and no office), it was run in a
 rather creative fashion that would make everyone cough today in comparison
 to the requirements and obligations made mandatory to chapters. Uh. You may
 have a slightly more ideal view of the past :)

 True, but just because things used to be bad is no reason that they
 should be bad now if we can prevent it (I was there with you, and we are
 both happy that we outgrew that phase with a minimal of damage and a LOT of
 luck in finding the right ED)  the scale of the organisation now makes it
 impossible to tolerate that kind of creativity when not absolutely
 necessary.
 
  It would be a poor use
  of movement funds indeed if the WMF decided to pour money into infant
  chapters with minimal development and fuzzy strategic goals. That's a
  recipe for, at an absolute minimum, good-faith mismanagement and waste
  of scarce donor resources. Avoiding this path was a very wise decision
  by the trustees, and I only hope they remain resolute despite
  criticism and Sue's impending departure.
 
  I mostly hope that they stay consistant with their own past decisions
 (=we were sold the fact that the money collected belong to the mouvement,
 not to the entity collecting it. If so, decisions of allocations should not
 become WMF ones).

 Agreed, which is why I think the FDC's advice is so important and I hope
 to never have to question it (although the board does have to have a final
 say in these matters as a matter of governance)

 
  In any cases... I know not if WM HK should have been funded or not. What
 I know is that the mouvement need happy and rested and humanly treated
 volunteers to stay healthy.

 True, but volunteers also have to ensure not to force themselves into
 positions of make or break and thereby put themselves at risk.

 
  We keep talking about editors decrease. Maybe in the future, we'll talk
 about irl volunteers (as in chapter members) decrease as well.

 I think we should, and I think that some of that discussion took place in
 Milan. As we know there are different kind of volunteers who organise
 affiliates (because the problem is not limited to chapters) and it takes
 different ways to keep motivated. These are important topics to discuss and
 keep track of. But lets not fall into the trap of blaming the big
 bureaucratic body of the WMF for all the problems we have. Volunteers burn
 out because of lots of reasons and we should all take care to fix those
 problems that are within our reach to control, and try to reduce the risk
 of burnout for all those involved (and again: meeting each other physically
 and exchanging experiences is a really good way of recharging)...

  In the past years, we have seen 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Deryck Chan
On 29 April 2013 12:32, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote:

 I'd like to come back to this - if the entity was told they were eligible
 (which certainly looks to be the case from the public documents), when was
 it discovered they were not?


When the FDC recommendations were published. (see my reply to THO)


 Obviously, putting together an FDC
 application is a tremendous amount of work for a chapter, and if the effort
 was futile from the start, then the time that Deryck and WMHK put into this
 could have been better spent on useful programme work instead.


Or, ironically, putting together a reallocation grant. Here's another
hen-and-egg problem for you all. We saw little value in settling the
remaining funds from the 2010-11 grants because the FDC results will change
everything anyway. Ironically the WMF and FDC became convinced that this is
a valid reason to retrospectively disqualify us.


 Cheers,
 Craig Franklin


 On 29 April 2013 17:25, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com wrote:

  On 29 Apr 2013, at 07:52, Tilman Bayer tba...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 
   I'm not familiar with the case, but reading that page, it seems that
  
 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:WM_HK/Education_Toolkits_For_Liberal_Studies/Report#Remaining_funds
   might also have played a role for the FDC's recommendation?
 
  Indeed, yet it looks like there has been no (public) follow up by the
 paid
  WMF grants staff for over a month. In addition,
 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/Proposals/2012-2013_round2/Wikimedia_Hong_KongshowsWMHK
  to still be an eligible entity.
 
  Winifred/Asaf, please can you clarify whether WMHK is still an eligible
  entity and what follow up was done after that message a month ago?
 
  ---
  Thehelpfulone
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone
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[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Re: Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-29 Thread Deryck Chan
We have replied multiple times that we want the remaining funds from the
2010-11 grants to be considered in conjunction with the FDC proposal. (ie.
the FDC proposal is the reallocation request.) This is because it is
logistically impractical for us to return any funds to WMF before the end
of Wikimania.

Winifred informed us of the out of compliance well after the grant report
was accepted and the FDC eligibility of WMHK was announced. *There was no
indication whatsoever that this late notice of out of compliance may lead
to retrospective disqualification.*

Deryck

(cc. Patricio and Jan-Bart as the official contacts for FDC complaints.
Yes, I'm accusing WMF grants staff of foul play with the FDC rules.)


On 29 April 2013 12:50, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com wrote:

 Deryck please could you confirm what happened with regards to the unused
 funds - did WMHK request a reallocation?

 Sent from my iPhone

 ---
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 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone

 On 29 Apr 2013, at 12:43, Deryck Chan deryckc...@wikimedia.hk wrote:

  -- Forwarded message --
  From: Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com
  Date: 29 Apr 2013 12:42
  Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark
  to everyone
  To: cfrank...@halonetwork.net
  Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 
  See the footnotes on the FDC decision page. Both WMHK and WMCZ were
  declared eligible at the time of submission, but the WMF subsequently
 found
  new faults during the review period which they chose to use as convenient
  excuses to disqualify these 2 chapters.
  On 29 Apr 2013 12:33, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net
 wrote:
 
  I'd like to come back to this - if the entity was told they were
 eligible
  (which certainly looks to be the case from the public documents), when
 was
  it discovered they were not?  Obviously, putting together an FDC
  application is a tremendous amount of work for a chapter, and if the
 effort
  was futile from the start, then the time that Deryck and WMHK put into
 this
  could have been better spent on useful programme work instead.
 
  Cheers,
  Craig Franklin
 
 
  On 29 April 2013 17:25, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  On 29 Apr 2013, at 07:52, Tilman Bayer tba...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 
  I'm not familiar with the case, but reading that page, it seems that
 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:WM_HK/Education_Toolkits_For_Liberal_Studies/Report#Remaining_funds
  might also have played a role for the FDC's recommendation?
 
  Indeed, yet it looks like there has been no (public) follow up by the
  paid
  WMF grants staff for over a month. In addition,
 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/Proposals/2012-2013_round2/Wikimedia_Hong_KongshowsWMHKto
  still be an eligible entity.
 
  Winifred/Asaf, please can you clarify whether WMHK is still an eligible
  entity and what follow up was done after that message a month ago?
 
  ---
  Thehelpfulone
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone
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[Wikimedia-l] Resignation announcement, and a parting remark to everyone

2013-04-28 Thread Deryck Chan
Dear trusty Wikimedians,

The FDC decisions are out on Sunday. Despite my desperate attempts to
assist WMHK's board to keep up with deadlines and comply with seemingly
endless requests from WMF grantmaking and FDC support staff, we received an
overwhelmingly negative assessment which resulted in a complete rejection
of our FDC proposal.

At this point, I believe it's an appropriate time for me to announce my
resignation and retirement from all my official Wikimedia roles - as
Administrative Assistant and WCA Council Member of WMHK. I will carry out
my remaining duties as a member of Wikimania 2013 local team.

My experience with the FDC process, and the outcome of it, has convinced me
that my continued involvement will simply be a waste of my own time, and of
little benefit to WMHK and the Wikimedia movement as a whole.

My experience with the FDC process has confirmed my ultimate scepticism
about the WMF's direction of development. WMF has become so conservative
with its strategies and so led into mainstream charity bureaucracy that
it is no longer tending to the needs of the wider Wikimedia movement.

My experience with the FDC process has shown me that WMF is expecting fully
professional deliverables which require full-time professional staff to
deliver, from organisations run by volunteers who are running Wikimedia
chapters not because they're charity experts, but because they love
Wikimedia.

My experience with the FDC process has demonstrated to me that WMF is
totally willing to perpetuate the hen-and-egg problem of the lack of staff
manpower and watch promising initiatives dwindle into oblivion.

WMHK isn't even a new chapter. We've been incorporated and recognised by
WMF since 2007. Our hen-and-egg problem isn't new either. We've been vocal
about the fact that our volunteer force is exhausted, and can't do any
better without funding for paid staff and an office since 2010. Our request
for office funding was rejected. The year after, our request to become a
payment-processing chapter was rejected. The year after, we've got
Wikimania (perhaps because WMF fortunately doesn't have too much to do with
the bidding process), which gave us hope that we might finally be helped to
professionalise. But it came to nothing - this very week our FDC request
was rejected.

And the reason? Every time the response from WMF was, effectively, we
aren't good enough therefore we won't get help to do any better. We don't
have professional staff to help us comply with the endless and
ever-changing professional reporting criteria, therefore we can't be
trusted to hire the staff to do precisely that.

My dear friends and trusty Wikimedians, do you now understand the irony and
the frustration?

Wikimedia didn't start off as a traditional charity. It is precisely
because of how revolutionary our mission and culture are, that we as a
movement have reached where we are today. A few movement entities,
particularly the WMF, managed to expand and take on the skin of a much more
traditional charity. But most of us are still youthful Wikimedia
enthusiasts who are well-versed with Wikimedia culture, but not with
charity governance. Imposing a professional standard upon a movement entity
as a prerequisite of giving it help to professionalise, is like judging
toddlers by their full marathon times.

Is this what we want Wikimedia to become? To turn from a revolutionary idea
to a charity so conservative that it would rather perpetuate a
chicken-and-egg problem than support long-awaited growth? I threw in days
and days of effort in the last few years, often at the peril of my degree
studies, with the wishful thinking that one day the help will come to let
WMHK and all the other small but well-established chapters professionalise.

I was wrong.

With the FDC process hammering the final nail into my scepticism about
where WMF and the movement is heading, I figured that with a degree in
environmental engineering from Cambridge my life will be much better spent
helping other worthy causes than wasting days on Wikimedia administration
work only to have them go unappreciated time and time again.

But I feel that it is necessary for me to leave a parting message to my
fellow Wikimedians, a stern warning about where I see our movement heading.
I feel that we're losing our character and losing our appreciation for
volunteers, in particular the limitations of volunteer effort.

I leave you all with a final thought from Dan Pallotta: charitable efforts
will never grow if we continue to be so adverse about overheads and
staffing.
http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pallotta_the_way_we_think_about_charity_is_dead_wrong.html

With Wiki-Love,
Deryck

PS. I wish there was an appropriate private mailing list for me to send
this to. Unfortunately, most of the important WMF stakeholders aren't
subscribed to internal-l, and most veteran chapters folks know what I want
to say already. I just hope that trolls wouldn't blow this out of
proportion. Or perhaps I do 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New design for the list info page?

2013-04-17 Thread Deryck Chan
You mean, there is a cabal-l? How I wish I was invited! ;-)

On 17 April 2013 21:30, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,

 Last week I noticed a nice design for the list info page of the WLM-US
 mailing list that I tweaked for this mailing list:
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l

 What do you think? Mentally replace all instance of cabal-l with
 wikimedia-l and compare to
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l. Unfortunately
 Mailman only seems to allow this change to be made for the English version
 of the page, so if you try to view the page in another language, you'll
 still get the standard list info page.

 Any objections to changing it?

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Favicon notes

2013-04-13 Thread Deryck Chan
So it has changed indeed! A non-Wikimedian friend told me today that he
noticed the font of the favicon is different.

On 13 April 2013 21:56, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:

 For the curious: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Favicon.

 MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] xkcd collecting donations for WMF?

2013-04-01 Thread Deryck Chan
As a side note, the first panel of the comic also openly calls its readers
to edit war over certain articles.


On 1 April 2013 20:22, Manuel Schneider manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.chwrote:

 Did you see this April's Fool Day comic on xkcd, with an interactivly
 growing dog: The dog gains a pound for every $10 donated to the
 Wikimedia Foundation via this link.

 http://xkcd.org/

 Is this real? How can it tell how much has been donated to WMF through
 this comic? I see that there is a special campaign reference in the
 donation link but how can it fetch the amount?

 Has there been any cooperation / negotiation between Randall Munroe and
 the WMF beforehand?

 /Manuel
 --
 Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
 Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Adopt a page

2013-03-29 Thread Deryck Chan
Because we've decided that [[WP:Ownership of articles]] is wrong, and
wronger if there's financial sponsorship involved.

On 29 March 2013 22:36, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I've just seen an OTRS ticket asking why isn't Wikipedia giving its
 pages for adoption (like when you adopt a page and your name ends up
 on its cage or something like that). I've moved the ticket to the
 donations queue, but I was wondering if this has ever been
 discussed/considered before.

 Thanks,
Strainu

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation's non-disclosure agreement

2013-03-07 Thread Deryck Chan
On Mar 7, 2013 8:11 AM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Katie Chan k...@ktchan.info wrote:

  On 06/03/2013 23:00, MZMcBride wrote:
 
 
  Out of curiosity, if you sign an NDA as a volunteer, what is the
  disclosure period, then? Is it indefinite?
 
 
  Disclosure period? If you mean how long the party is bound by the
  agreement, then it'll depends on the exact agreement. For things like
  personally identifiable information, it will be forever which is kinda
the
  point of having the NDA in the first place.
 
  KTC


 My NDA, signed 7 November 2011, is for three years.  I found the copy.

Same for mine, except for personally identifying information, which is
forever.


 James Salsman:

 There are no terms about disparaging information or anything like that.
  Save it for another thread, please.

 --
 ~Keegan

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation's non-disclosure agreement

2013-03-06 Thread Deryck Chan
As far as I know, NDAs are primarily for protecting people's privacy. I
signed a WMF NDA because I'll be reviewing Wikimania scholarships, and I'll
see the real names and nationalities etc of many Wikimedia volunteers who
attend Wikimania but still try to keep their RL identity separate from
their Wikimedia usernames.
On Mar 6, 2013 4:43 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com wrote:

 Just a quick note - while I was a fellow, I don't remember signing a NDA.
 I think people who did surveys had to (researchers, staff members,
 whatever) depending on the type of information they'd be gathering from
 people. Or, of course, the type of database you'd be given access too (i.e.
 it makes sense that maybe someone from analytics or grantmaking depending
 on the role would have to sign an NDA versus someone from the education
 program).

 Most organizations don't walk around releasing their NDA's. In fact, I
 don't know a single organization that would engage people to do so. And
 even though WMF is WMF, I don't think it's bad for it to hold onto some
 professional practices like that. It's common practice, in the States, for
 non and for profits to do. I always thought it was funny that NDA's existed
 at WMF just because of the openness, but, at the same time, it's industry
 standard and doesn't phase me. People should be glad WMF has one.

 -Sarah

 On 3/5/13 11:34 PM, K. Peachey wrote:

 On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 5:11 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:

 ...

 As far as I know the relevant issue is that anyone who has access to
 private personal information of users needs to sign an agreement that
 they will not share that information.

 This definition doesn't seem to include CheckUsers, oversighters, OTRS
 volunteers and OTRS administrators, wiki administrators, and many others,
 so I'm not sure it's accurate.

 (OTRS Wise) That may be a historical thing and queue dependant, I know
 the gentlemen from OTRS (Martin?) had to sign one before he could
 start work on updating the foundation's install

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2013 scholarship now accepting application

2013-02-18 Thread Deryck Chan
No, because you haven't described what you're bringing :)

On the other hand, a detailed, grammatically correct description of
stroopwafels will almost certainly gain full marks for the English ability
criterion. (And perhaps a bonus for interest in Wikimania if you make a
good case)

On 18 February 2013 09:52, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote:

 oh... so replying with I will bring my own food wasn't such a good idea
 after all? ;-)

 2013/2/18 Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com

  On Monday, 18 February 2013, Abbas Mahmood wrote:
 
From: liamwy...@gmail.com javascript:;
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 11:47:06 +
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:;
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2013 scholarship now accepting
   application
   
   
 Hong Kong is an international gourmet paradise. Please use less
 than
   200
words to describe your favourite dish of food.
   
Is this an English-language test? Or, is this to help determine the
  best
catering options? Or something else?
  
   +1 to what Liam asked. I honestly don't understand the premise of that
   question in the scholarship application form.
   Abbas.
  
 
  Upon further questioning I was informed that:
 
  This question is referring to the selection criteria #4 Fluency of
  English language.  
 
  So... Apparently this is where you are expected to write something that
  convinces people you have a firm grasp of English. Unfortunately, this
 is a
  written test, not an oral test - because an oral test might be quite
  useful. I know many people from my own country and other
  English-native-speaking countries that are officially literate but when
  asked to speak in a formal setting (or even semi-formal situation like
  Wikimania) are incapable of clear enunciation, diction, grammar,
  intonation, accent and speed. Certainly, they can be understood by
 *other*
  native English speakers but they have no concept of how difficult it is
 for
  non-native speakers to understand them.
 
  Perhaps a mandatory class for native speakers before the conference
  entitled:
  Speak English, like, more good 'n stuff for all y'all. Mmm'kay?
 
 
 
 
  --
  wittylama.com
  Peace, love  metadata
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

2013-02-05 Thread Deryck Chan
On 5 February 2013 15:30, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 05.02.2013 16:18, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote:

 there's nothing to pick up so far. The FDC has not held any meetings since
 (obviously), and it generally operates within the mandate given by the
 Board (which makes all decisions, FDC is only making recommendations). I


 Strange world that of Wikimedia where everyone makes recommendations to
 someone and for something.

 Sorry, is it possible to identify in this strange world the key decision
 makers?

 Ilario


 Sue. [/me shuts up and hides]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Blog: Virtual Learning Environment

2013-01-11 Thread Deryck Chan
There is also some work being conducted to investigate ways of writing a
modification to Moodle to allow HTML to be imported from wiki pages to
directly, providing a transclusion function.

This sentence looks somewhat awkward...

On 11 January 2013 15:41, Stevie Benton stevie.ben...@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:

 Hello everyone,

 I hope you're having an enjoyable Friday.

 I wanted to drop you a line to let you know about a blog that Wikimedia UK
 published today at

 http://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2013/01/virtual-learning-environment-making-good-progress/

 It's about our Virtual Learning Environment, providing an update on how the
 work is progressing and detailing some next steps.

 I hope you find it interested and do let me know if you have any comments
 or suggestions.

 Thanks and regards,

 Stevie

 --

 Stevie Benton
 Communications Organiser
 Wikimedia UK+44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173
 @StevieBenton

 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
 and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
 Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street,
 London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a
 global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the
 Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

 *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal
 control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] proposed urgent Board of Trustees resolution without a meeting

2012-12-24 Thread Deryck Chan
Wait, fundraising is finishing early this year? Last time I heard anything,
the storytelling team is still desperately scrambling new appeals to try
out within this fundraiser. Correct me if I'm misinformed.

Deryck
On Dec 24, 2012 6:00 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Dec 24, 2012 6:42 AM, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Whereas I'm confused.

 I think it is James that is confused...
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikipedia-l] Sort it

2012-10-26 Thread Deryck Chan
Too often what happens is: I try to help a newbie by email; but before they
make much progress another admin comes and blocks them for the damage
they've already caused. Obviously the newbie gives up.

Suggested technical improvement: create notices like editnotice on the
block screen saying Admin xyz is mentoring this newbie - please consult
him before you bite.
On Oct 26, 2012 1:03 PM, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com
wrote:

 As a biologist, I'd say it's the I need to figure this out
 mentality, which leads to frustration if the system (which you had
 believed you figured out!) apparently turns against you.

 My advice here is: That should not happen, but there is so much more
 to do on Wikipedia; let this specific issue rest, for month or years
 or forever, and contribute something else. The issue will get sorted,
 with or without you, eventually.

 Magnus



 On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Charles Andrès
 charles.and...@wikimedia.ch wrote:
  Amir is right, without judging this specific case, the pattern describe
 here is a problem.
 
  Especially the massive revert attitude , it's really a challenge for
 retaining new specialist editor.
 
  Charles
 
  ___
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  Wikimedia CH – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
  www.wikimedia.ch
  Skype: charles.andres.wmch
  IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
 
  Le 26 oct. 2012 à 13:43, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il
 a écrit :
 
  Shortened, and grossly over-simplified:
  A biologist wrote some things about biology and they were not
 challenged.
  Then he wrote some things about dinosaurs, and they were reverted. If
  I understood correctly, the reason for the reverts was that it
  appeared to be original research (WP:NOR).
  And now the biologist is pissed off, possibly for a good reason, and
  wants his previous contributions removed, too.
 
  This is a story that repeats itself quite often, with surprisingly
  similar details: an expert does some acceptable things, then doing
  some things that turn out to rouse controversy, then wanting to retire
  with a storm. I'm not implying that the expert is bad, absolutely not;
  I'm just noting a pattern.
 
  Whatever the details of the story are, it's not good and it may
  justify discussion.
 
  But as a meta-comment, it should be done on wikien-l or on
  wikimedia-l, and not on this list, which is called wikipedia-l, but
  is not active in practice.
 
  --
  Amir
 
  2012/10/26 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com
 
  TL;DR (Too long; didn't read.)
 
  Please provide a summary that makes clear what point you are trying to
 make...
 
  On 26 October 2012 11:55, John Jackson strangetrut...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Greetings –
 
  I hope this is a good place to send a weighty message to Wikipedia.
  You’ll want to read all through.
 
  I am a scientist who has always liked the Wikipedia idea, and I like
  your implementation.  Lately I’ve started making contributions.
  Although I’m a cognitive scientist who taught biological psychology at
  degree level for several years and have done AI research since the
  ‘80’s, I’ve diverted for a decade or more to resolve a set of major
  evolutionary puzzles.
 
  Fairly peripheral but within the overall project was an investigation
  of bird breathing, and I decided to piece together the research into
  it, and deliver it properly to the public.  Trust me, the finer
  details were obscure.  On the way I discovered why penguins’ lungs
  don’t collapse even at 500m when whales’ lungs collapse by 100m; I
  found out what the neopulmo did (though not why) and why penguins
  don’t have it, and I changed our understanding of flow within it; I
  also resolved the old chestnut of whether birds had counter-current
  exchange in their lungs.  That is, completely discovered, not just for
  myself.  By careful editing and addition including the long overdue
  diagram the subject needed, I converted the two Wikipedia pages
  dealing with bird breathing from an incomplete mire to a place of
  revelation (though the German version needs starting afresh, and
  Duncker agrees).  But it was an honour do so.
 
  More central to my overall project was cladogenesis, the heart of
  palaeontology and just the thing that I, as an MSc in info. sys.
  engineering would be expected to get into.  I’ve written my own clad.
  software, invented and implemented my own heuristic version, proved
  the theorem in graph theory that resolves an issue in checking
  evolutionary trees by time and rooting them, and highlighted a serious
  statistical fallacy invalidating another major current of work in the
  time-checking of trees.
 
  In these activities I was almost entirely alone as regards other
  workers in the overall field, since that field, dinobird
  palaeontology, is notorious for its abuse of the lack of scientific
  and indeed academic constraint that all historical disciplines are
  

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

2012-10-17 Thread Deryck Chan
On 17 October 2012 09:16, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.ilwrote:

 2012/10/17 Strainu strain...@gmail.com:
  2012/10/17 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com:
 
  This has been discussed in the language committee. In the committee we
 all
  agreed that the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start without
 any
  interference of us and that new languages should start through the
 normal
  process because from now they are just like any other new project in a
  language.
 
  But how about languages already existing in Wikitravel? They already
  have the content, if not the community.

 As Gerard said, the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start
 without any interference.


Amir,
I think Strainu is referring to languages that exist on Wikitravel but not
Wikivoyage.
Deryck
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia-blog] [Wikimedia Announcements] Joint statement from Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia UK

2012-09-28 Thread Deryck Chan
On 28 September 2012 22:39, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sep 28, 2012 9:45 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Wow. I honestly didn't think the conflict of interest issue was this
  serious.

 The conflict wasn't that bad, but the very poor handling of it casts
 serious doubts on how well Wikimedia UK leadership understands its
 responsibilities and its ability to carry them out. I suspect that is why
 the wmf has insisted on this.


I respectfully disagree. As I see it, the crux of the problem comes not
from the WMUK leadership's handling of the situation, but the continuous
hounding by outsiders against the Wikimedians involved in the conflict,
which from my point of view made it largely impossible for the WMUK board
to navigate through the conflict unscathed.

Perhaps that means I do agree there's doubt on how much ability WMUK's
leadership can deal with the conflict; but I simply don't see how it
could've been better handled given the situation WMUK was in.

Over the last two years WMF has become increasingly conservative over how
payment-processing should work, so much as to cause constant decry from the
local chapters, though it still comes as a surprise that WMF is retracting
payment-processing from WMUK. I can but guess that WMF is now becoming so
overly conservative that they would rather stop supporting local groups
altogether than risk the local groups bringing WMF into any trouble, a move
which I understand but am very disappointed to see.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Naming for the Travel Guide project

2012-09-27 Thread Deryck Chan
Tom,
Thanks for making this offer. The worst that could happen to a Wikimedia
competition is, indeed, one that requires money to join.
Deryck
On Sep 27, 2012 2:15 PM, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.com
wrote:

 If anyone has a good idea for a name, but lacks to funds or means to pick
 it up (and the WMF declines to do so), feel free to get in touch. I am
 happy to handle the purchase and later transfer (if it wins!) for you :)

 Hopefully that removes that hurdle :D

 Tom

 On 27 September 2012 13:48, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:

  Hi Lodewijk,
 
  Currently the process is that the suggested name must be owned by the WMF
  or a volunteer who is willing to transfer it free of charge.  Any
  exceptions would have to be worked out with Kelly and Erik.
 
  Thanks,
  pb
  ___
  Philippe Beaudette
  Director, Community Advocacy
  Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
 
  415-839-6885, x 6643
 
  phili...@wikimedia.org
 
 
 
  On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 4:05 AM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org
  wrote:
 
   Thanks Philippe,
  
   just as clarification: do I understand correctly that people can only
   suggest names that are either owned by the WMF or they are willing to
   invest money to buy the domains for at least the .org and possibly some
   more? Or would the WMF also be willing to buy/reimburse the domains
 that
   would likely be serious candidates? This wasn't entirely clear from the
   page to me.
  
   Best,
   Lodewijk
  
   2012/9/27 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com
  
Thanks for keeping this rolling, Philippe.
It's great to see the names turned up already.
   
SJ
   
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 4:24 AM, Philippe Beaudette
phili...@wikimedia.orgwrote:
   
 Hi all,

 The straw poll [1] for the name of the new travel guide project has
closed.
  While there's been strong support for the name Wikivoyage, there
  have
also
 been strong arguments expressing the desire for a more open-ended
   process
 and no overall consensus to go forward without it. The Wikimedia
Foundation
 therefore would like to invite participation in an open process,
  which
   is
 described at
   https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Travel_Guide/Naming_Process
,
 and begins immediately with the submission of suggested names
 (please
note
 the submission process).  Thank you for your participation.

 Thanks,
 pb


 [1] -
   https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Travel_Guide/Naming_straw_poll/en
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[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Re: FUDChilling EffectsFiltersOutlawing

2012-09-25 Thread Deryck Chan
-- Forwarded message --
From: Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com
Date: Sep 25, 2012 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] FUDChilling EffectsFiltersOutlawing
To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

This is old news. This is what we've been protesting against all throughout
the SOPA/ACTA related actions. Yes it is alarming, but we've been aware of
them for years.
On Sep 25, 2012 9:22 PM, ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Some of what that article describes is absurd and would run counter to
 principles that I think Europe generally supports. I think most of us would
 agree that the internet can be used for dangerous and fraudulent purposes
 and that governments have a role in protecting the public from genuine
 danger and fraud, but those efforts need to be done in a reasonable and
 balanced way that respects important liberty principles that underpin
 governments that are of the people, by the people, for the people.

 I hope that WMF Legal takes a look at this article and evaluates how much
 of it is truthful. Hopefully that article is more rumor than truth.

 Pine

 -

 Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:52:30 +0300
 From: Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonav...@gmail.com
 To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
 wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**orgwikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 
 Subject: [Wikimedia-l] FUDChilling EffectsFiltersOutlawing
 AnonymityUnrestricted Surveillance of the Nets 'Alive and Well in the
 European Union'!!!
 Message-ID:
 CAJ9-**EKJNS9T7tCdFBe4aOYEHQfPuQpYaoO**AiWVVRYYEnV5ZmoA@mail.gmail.**comcaj9-ekjns9t7tcdfbe4aoyehqfpuqpyaooaiwvvryyenv5z...@mail.gmail.com
 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 http://www.edri.org/cleanIT

 I challenge any knowledgeable and clueful person to peruse that above
 link and not reel back in horror and incredulity... Can somebody either
 confirm that people in WMF are aware of the above Charlie Foxtrot;
 or failing that, bump it up to people who are qualified and empowered
 to consider how WMF should approach the situation. Would be nice to
 hear that the above report is inaccurate, unwarrantedly alarmist, or that
 the proposals will come to nothing in any case, but...

 --
 --
 Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Foundation Seeks Declaratory Relief in response to Legal Threats from Internet Brands

2012-09-12 Thread Deryck Chan
One possibility lies within their terms of use:
If you're not interested in our goals, or if you agree with our goals but
refuse to collaborate, compromise, reach
consensushttp://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Consensusor make
concessions with other Wikitravellers, we ask that you not use this
Web service. If you continue to use the service against our wishes, we
reserve the right to use whatever means available -- technical or legal --
to prevent you from disrupting our work together.

The goals page (http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Goals_and_non-goals)
does imply the goal of making Wikitravel the travel guide, not just a
travel guide. It is therefore possible to make a case against the
fork-enthusiasts, and James in particular because he spent more time on
Wikitravel preparing the fork than actually improving Wikitravel, that
they're violating the Wikitravel terms of use in some fringe way, which is
a form of breach of contract.

I'm glad that WMF has decided to file a counter-suit and help James and
Ryan defend their cases.
Deryck

On 12 September 2012 10:13, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote:

 The more interesting legal line:

 1) Does IB believe there is a legal basis that members of the public (in
 the absence of contractual obligation) cannot consider where they and their
 fellow hobbyists want to engage in a hobbyisyt activity, be it drinking
 beer, discussing philosophy, playing cards, or writing online information?

 2) Does IB believe it is tortious to discuss or offer a service to members
 of the public, or for a member of the public to suggest to other
 potentially interested members of the public, that a different venue or
 provider of services might please them more than their present one?

 3) Is IB aware of any litigation based upon that very novel theory? For
 example,



- In the commercial world, does case law suggest it is tortious for
Apple to either target PC users, or suggest PC users might prefer a
 Mac, or
a store to state they price compare and are cheaper than another store,
 or
a conference centre to state it has facilities better suited than a
competitor for the needs of an inquirer and their peers?
- In the social world does case law suggest it is tortious for a member
of a tennis-playing peer group to suggest that in light of changed
 rules at
the current venue a different venue might be better, or to propose to
explore moving the tennis club to play at that venue?
- Can you sue users of your bar (absent a contract) to force them to
continue using your bar if you hear them planning to shoot pool
 elsewhere?

 This would be very odd, and novel.


 In short, IB's problem is it conceived WT's content, and the community
 writing WT, and the WT site/brand, as its possessions, but the first two
 are not.

 FT2




 On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net
 wrote:

  On 09/11/12 4:29 AM, Thomas Morton wrote:
 
  No comment on whether they *can* prove this as I haven't seen the email
 in
  question, or the other evidence. But on the face of it there may be some
  case to answer. A response from the defendants may clear up the matter.
 
  Seeing as the intent is to replace IB's as the host of the main travel
  site
  wiki then I think IB is justified in defending their position if they
  believe they have been unfairly undermined. I do disapprove of doing it
  via
  lawsuits though (they could e.g. just import WT...).
 
 
   I heartily congratulate the two volunteers for being sued.
 
  Going through the courts with this will certainly be welcome because of
  the legal points that will be clarified.
 
  It will be interesting to see how they will show that someone has
  tortuously caused injury. (Para 1).
 
  Also from Para 1, how can a person violate a contract without being a
  party to it?
 
  Relief point 2(a) is interesting. In some cases a reference to Travelwiki
  may be necessary to fulfill the requirements of the CC-BY licence.
 
  Ray
 
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Foundation Seeks Declaratory Relief in response to Legal Threats from Internet Brands

2012-09-12 Thread Deryck Chan
On 12 September 2012 12:27, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.comwrote:

 [...] fortunately courts do not rely on metaphors :)

 Tom


Oh they do. That's precisely what case law is. Inaccurate metaphors are the
reason that courts worldwide have a ridiculous view on what constitutes a
copyright violation.

Deryck
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Travel Guide: Board statement

2012-09-07 Thread Deryck Chan
Just write Imported from Wikitravel and list the names of all page
authors by scrubbing the Wikitravel page. Attribution given, problem
solved! (okay, not the import practicality bit)

On 7 September 2012 21:14, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM, emijrp emi...@gmail.com wrote:
  When we use 1911 Britannica texts, we only attribute to the encyclopedia,
  not its authors, so we can put This text comes from Wikitravel.
 
  Anyway, if we are going to use Wikitravel texts, writing a script to
 scrape
  just the usernames from histories is trivial
  http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Kaprunaction=history
 

 That's not really accurate, and not how Wikimedia projects expect to
 be credited either. Wikipedia or Wikitravel are not the authors of
 any project content (other than, for Wikitravel, that written by
 employees in the course of their employment).

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Foundation Seeks Declaratory Relief in response to Legal Threats from Internet Brands

2012-09-06 Thread Deryck Chan
In contrast to Tom's opinion, I believe that WMF has done the right thing -
write the blog post in a way so as to create the biggest PR impact within
the limits of factual accuracy; and link to the PDF and discussions for the
sake of transparency.

On 6 September 2012 15:12, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.comwrote:

 Nonsense; the blog post is the PR release.

 So, yes, unfortunately I assert bad faith - hiding it in the brief is
 basically standard misdirection, in my experience. And for a movement
 dedicated (supposedly) to transparency it is very sad to see.

 Tom

 On 6 September 2012 15:03, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:

  On 6 September 2012 14:53, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.com
  wrote:
 
   Everyone (including in the recent board statement) seems to be avoiding
   mention that this new travel site has come about due to Wiki Travel
  admins
   having an interest in moving away from IB, or that it will be seeded
 with
   Wiki Travel content.
   It seems intellectually dishonest to leave this out of public
 statements.
   It doesn't materially affect the issue - but it could well be seen as
   underhand by the cynical mind (i.e. if someone as suspicious as me,
   approaching this for the first time, later found out this fact it would
   certainly be an aha moment).
 
 
  It certainly explicitly says just that all over the PDF. Did you read
  it, before asserting bad faith?
 
  The blog post is somewhat wordy, but it does correctly note The
  Wikimedia movement stands in the balance. I really don't think
  they're soft-pedaling this.
 
 
  - d.
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia redefined -- typography and UX and such

2012-09-05 Thread Deryck Chan
Keyhole solution:
The MediaWiki API and Wikipedia copyright and trademark licences allow
Wikipedia Redefined to implement their ideas already. It will, of course,
be marketed as an alternative browsing and editing device like AWB
currently is. If there's enough uptake, it's never too late for WMF to buy
them up :)

On 5 September 2012 22:11, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:


 http://www.fastcodesign.com/1670648/a-promising-wikipedia-overhaul-designed-to-squash-info-overload#1


 A follow-up article on the redesign. Excerpt:


 ---o0o---


 So, will we all be able to enjoy this clear and concise online experience
 anytime soon? Kazlauskas put the odds at a discouraging, and definitive,
 “zero chance,” even though the response has been positive. “So far the
 reaction of people at Wikipedia--creators, not users, mind you--is they are
 not ready for anything radical,” he says (and the whole endeavor reminds me
 a bit of Wired’s similar attempt to updating
 Craigslist
 http://www.wired.com/entertainment/theweb/magazine/17-09/ff_craigslist_makeover
 
 for
 a feature package a few years ago).

 Despite the unlikelihood of implementation, the team still sees an
 opportunity to leverage what they’ve done for an audience who would no
 doubt welcome the opportunity to tool around with the slick style. “We are
 already working on app which will use new interface to read Wikipedia,”
 Kazlauskas explains. “We’ll see how that goes and if anyone’s interested.”
 What say you, knowledge-seekers?
 ---o0o---


 Personally, I would welcome third-party offers of alternative skins.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] conversations between WMF and non-English projects

2012-07-30 Thread Deryck Chan
Hire someone from the local Wikipedia community to do it. This can be
integrated into the proposed language community and cultural translation
WMF fellow's job description.

MediaWiki feature decisions are gruesome chores. In small language project
communities the active editors typically don't involve themselves with
feature decisions until the feature is rolled out and breaks an entire
Wikipedia with one commit. (eg.
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30392 )

By hiring the local editor you can make sure they can be bothered to
involve themselves in feature decisions, and informing their local
communities about it.

Deryck

On 30 July 2012 16:11, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 As a very general point; working out how to include non-enlang editors in
 features decisions is right at the top of my list of wicked problems to
 handle. If anyone has any ideas, please shoot me an email :)

 On 30 July 2012 14:07, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote:

  John, when those meetings happened, what they said was we want to meet
  people from Brasil and when asked who they wanted to meet, the answer
 was
  anyone, doesn't matter how long you contribute or how much, we only want
  to talk with the Brazilian community,so no, none of those meetings were
  calls for top editors. They were called meetups, they were  advertised
  that way, and they were treated that way.
 
  And I can aso say no WMF people contact any Portuguese editor in
 regarding
  to that (let's not say they travel there, but Skype and e-mail also
 exist,
  and weren't used)
  _
  *Béria Lima*
 
  *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
  livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
  construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
 
 
  On 29 July 2012 19:33, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 5:09 AM, Thomas Dalton 
 thomas.dal...@gmail.com
   wrote:
On 29 July 2012 22:57, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:
Can your masters degree in mathematics point out where in
 Wikimedia's
statement it said all or implied anything other than having met
 some
   of
Portuguese Wikipedia's top contributors? Not sure what the big deal
  is.
   
The word all actually appeared in my email that Steven was replying
to. He claimed that a majority of Portuguese Wikipedians being from
Brazil contradicted my statement that not all (top) Portuguese
Wikipedians are from Brazil. That was a straw man argument, due to
all and majority not meaning the same thing.
  
   confirming.. there are residents of Portugal in
  
   http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaPT.htm#wikipedians
  
   but the 'majority' do appear to be Brazilian.  I cant easily see if
   those top contributors attended the meetups at
  
   https://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/03/22/brazil-meetups-march/
  
   --
   John Vandenberg
  
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 Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board appointments July 2012

2012-07-25 Thread Deryck Chan
See
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Talk:Resolution:Personal_image_hiding_feature

Votes were initially cast on 11 July with Phoebe and Arne still on the
board. Then Jimmy changed his vote on 16 July.

On 25 July 2012 14:50, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote:

 If they got confirmed at July 11, (from the resolution: *This written
 Resolution will be effective as of July 11, 2012*) why are Phoebe and Arne
 voting in all other resolutions passed at the day??

 And why they vote on this one:

 http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Personal_Image_Hiding_Featurefrom
 July
 *16*?
 _
 *Béria Lima*

 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
 livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
 construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*


 On 25 July 2012 03:12, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.com wrote:

  Greetings, all.
 
  And apologies. This resolution approving the Wikimedia Chapters'
 selections
  to the Board of Trustees was unanimously approved, in-person, on July 11,
  2012.
 
  It took much longer to publish than it should have due to a procedural
  issue.
 
  It has finally been published at:
 
 http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_appointments_July_2012
 
  Best
  Bishakha
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

2012-07-25 Thread Deryck Chan
I think the clear moral of this story is that, as accommodating and
reader-friendly you can be, you just can't make everyone happy.

We should listen to all opinions and suggestions, but expect to decide most
of the time that the suggestions are simply dumb or unhelpful.

On 25 July 2012 16:22, Michel Vuijlsteke wikipe...@zog.org wrote:

 On 25 July 2012 15:57, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote:

 
  That's default web behaviour. If you want narrower columns, just make the
  browser window narrower.
 
  * If your answer is Some people don't know how to use a browser...
  well...
ARGH
 

 Most people never resize their browser windows.
 If your answer is Most people are stupid and don't *deserve* a better
 reading experience… well, sum, yeah. There's that.


  * Else If your answer is Lets make it narrower for everyone (including
 us
  WIMPs
who *do* know how to use Windows Icons Menus and Pointers) whether they
want to or not.   I KL YOU
 

 It's not about making it narrower. It's about making it *better*.
 Analogy: Let's reduce the amount of words in the lede  Let's make the
 lede better.


  * Else If your answer is better DTPishlayout control in CSS, including
  some sane way to
do proper columnated text: YES YES, 1000 TIMES YES!
 

 Column layout on scrolling web pages doesn't make a lot of sense.
 Some additional DTP-ish layout control in CSS would be nice, sure, but
 that's not the point.


  * Else If other: Ok, go ahead, I'm listening? :-)
 

 Well, see points raised earlier. Making Wikipedia easier to read and use is
 not just mollycoddling lazy users who should know better.

 Michel
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

2012-07-25 Thread Deryck Chan
On 17 July 2012 00:46, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:

  I honestly don't understand why it is taking so many years to develop a
  WYSIWYG editor, for example, or a new Commons search function. Honestly,
  people, if you want to create paid jobs, don't inflate the chapter
  structure, but employ and pay a few programmers and designers.

 On 25 July 2012 16:41, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:

 I don't understand it, so it must be simple. This often turns out
 not to be the case.

 I realised both that it was an incredibly difficult problem, and that WMF
is really serious about getting on with it, when they decided to hire James
F. to take charge of the project.

Deryck
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Geolocalization improvement proposal

2012-07-23 Thread Deryck Chan
On Jul 23, 2012 2:59 PM, Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com wrote:


 On Jul 23, 2012 11:48 AM, aude aude.w...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Cristian Consonni 
 kikkocrist...@gmail.com
   wrote:
 
   2012/7/18 Cristian Consonni kikkocrist...@gmail.com:
I know that the feature may be perceived as invasive so I would like
that as many people as possible share their opinion on this and I
 hope
that we can anyway start a discussion that will lead to an improved
geolocalization system, whichever we found appropriate.
  
   I am sorry to insist on this issue but having received almost no
   answers in the past week I fear that I was not clear in my request.
   But I indeed have some questions, so I restate them here:
   * Using browser localization capabilities may be perceived as
   invasive. Would you like to use browser localization tool in
   Wikipedia? (yes/no, why?)
  
 
  Yes, I think it's invasive and Wikipedians can be quite sensitive about
  privacy. (even if it's all in the browser, with JavaScript, etc.)   It
 may
  not be the case everywhere, but the IP based geolocation is good enough
 for
  purposes of geonotices.

 Doesn't work well enough in the UK for our purposes - there are threads
 and threads of debate on wikimediauk-l if you want to delve into that. The
 US is the exception, not the rule, in that lat-lon geolocation actually
 works to a useful accuracy.
 Deryck

 
  Right now, we pretty much opt everyone into the geonotices, though each
 can
  be dismissed or people can turn them off with css / js.  I think people
  would freak out about the more precise geolocation and more would opt
 out.
 
  (e.g. whatever happened with Twitter's geolocation?  as far as I see,
  people don't use it much)
 
 
 
   * Do you think the trade-off between bothering user asking to send
   position information and potential benefits (more accurately localized
messages) is worth?
  
 
  Not worth it.  Not enough benefit over the current approach.
 
 
   * Are you happy with the current system ?
  
 
  Yes.  Obviously the UI for the geonotice tool can use improvement, and
  would be nice to see more geolocation functionality in CentralNotice.
 
 
   * Do you think a deeper study of the issue (i.e. a new survey,
   conducted on a broader sample and in a more scientifically precise
   way) would be useful or would help you make a more informed decision?
  
 
  No.
 
  Cheers,
  Katie
 
 
 
   * Have you any further proposal for the use of the system?
  
   Thank you, please also use the discussion page of
  
  
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Geonotice#Open_questions_.28feedback_welcome.29
   for comments.
  
   Thank you,
  
   Cristian
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Request for comment on global bans

2012-07-06 Thread Deryck Chan
Short answer as I understand it:
Global blocks are the technical feature and refer to the accounts, the IPs
and the software capability; global bans are the policy and refer to the
people who are unwelcome.

On 6 July 2012 10:44, ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Hi Steven,

 Could you explain the distinctions between https://meta.wikimedia.org/**
 wiki/Global_locks https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_locks,
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Global_blockshttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_blocks,
 and 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Global_banshttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_bans?
 These look to me like they have some redundancy and some areas where they
 diverge. A chart which compares these three side-by-side would be helpful.

 Also, if Global Bans are decided by an RFC on Meta, that gives me pause. I
 can envision sockpuppets and meatpuppets attempting to sabotage the process
 and giving Meta checkusers more work to do, potentially much more work,
 especially if WP:DUCK behaviors need to be evaluated on multiple projects
 in multiple languages and/or coordination is needed with checkusers from
 projects in other languages. I'm a bit more supportive of the process at
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Global_lockshttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_lockswhich
  seems to involve Stewards making the decision to take a global action
 based on multiple local projects taking local actions, rather than because
 there was a global community RFC at Meta. I agree with AFBorchert's comment
 at the RFC, Meta is working great for non-controversial project
 coordination, requests to stewards etc. But Meta is in no way prepared to
 serve as a battleground for a large-scale global ban discussion which would
 tend to revive previous debates at other projects.

 Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm thinking that global locks and
 global blocks would be the best two of the three options to deal with a
 user who is problematic enough to be unwelcome on all wikis.

 Thanks,

 Pine

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] OFFICE actions and WMF image tagging

2012-07-03 Thread Deryck Chan
On 3 July 2012 19:08, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:

 I love it when people send e-mails to the public list, and purposefully
 refrain from actually discussing the actual events at issue. You have to
 read 3/4ths of the e-mail to get an idea that it's about someone being
 blocked, but you still don't know why, when, or by whom.


That's precisely the crux of the problem: office actions often aren't
properly explained and documented. No one who wasn't involved in the
original office action decision really knows why, when, or by whose
authority was the office action taken out.



 Following the yellow brick road, however, leads you to discover that this
 is about a global ban of user Beta_M, performed by the WMF as an office
 action seemingly in March of this year. Phillipe, Maggie Dennis, Jimbo and
 Sue have all weighed in on the issue, saying that they are unable to
 disclose specifics for this case but that the decision was made by Sue in
 consultation with the WMF general counsel.

 So, can you say what it is about this that made you bring it up now, in
 July?

 On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hi
 
  I would like to bring up an issue with office actions that was brought up
  elsewhere. There has been an issue on commons with User:Saibo tagging
  images from WMF staff. He disagreed with a particular office action taken
  by WMF staff. He gives an explanation with relevant diffs here[1]. The
  issue is rather complicated, and the specifics of it seem to be in
 secret.
  And that is mostly the problem here. He asked for an explanation is
 several
  places, but so far, the response from Philippe, and the rest of the staff
  has been that office actions are not explained - that is the crux of the
  entire offered explanation.
 
  Office actions have historically been used to blank or delete pages, the
  current listed policy on Meta and commons[3][4] make no mention of Global
  bans or blocking a user locally, or even globally. I have not known for
  office actions to extend to users and global bans, the last I know was a
  discussion going on with Steven on Meta about this. This might be its
 first
  usage. The proposed policy[5] and open RfC[6], have not concluded yet.
 The
  RfC received comments just today. Is that proposed policy already being
  used on commons?
 
  Office actions, have been limited to blanking pages, though sometimes
  contentious, they have been exercised with caution. It is a different
  ball-game when it goes from just blanking a page, to instantly blocking a
  user globally, and giving no explanation to community members who have
  known that user for years. if it is stretched to banning a 2 year old
 user
  with no explanation beyond, OFFICE ACTION it is going to do more than
  just raise eyebrows. I understand the specifics of the issue here, but
  banning users with absolutely no explanation can not be this widely
  accepted.
 
  Regards
  Theo
 
  [1]http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Saibo/WMF
  [2]
 
 
 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Philippe_(WMF)#Why_did_you_block_a_user_without_a_reason.3F
  [3]http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Office_actions
  [4]http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Office_actions
  [5]http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_bans
  [6]http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Request_for_comment/Global_bans
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Language links and double language links on the Wikipedias

2012-06-26 Thread Deryck Chan
One major problem with double language links I've encountered before was
that they confuse interwiki bots and therefore break things. Several
articles on the Cantonese Wikipedia (zh-yue.wp) pertaining to local
political and cultural issues in the Cantonese-speaking world have
__NOBOT__ on them simply because they have topic splits that are
significantly different from other Wikipedias, and bot interwiki
manipulation need to be prevented to maintain topic correspondence between
languages.

In short: double language links are a possible idea, but only if we can
upgrade the interwiki bots first.

On 25 June 2012 11:29, Denny Vrandečić denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de wrote:

 Hi all,

 I ran some analysis last week, to get some numbers out of the
 Wikipedia language links. One type of reports that were generated was
 the list of all articles in the main namespaces of the Wikipedias that
 link to more than one article in another language edition of Wikipedia
 (so called double language links). There are not that many of them
 (about 19,000 in total), split by language, all available here:

 http://simia.net/languagelinks/

 Double language links are not errors per se, but they contain a few
 nuisances
 * they lead to two links in the language links list that just look the
 same (you have to hover over them to see that they link to different
 languages), which is not really optimal from the user experience side
 * they are not saved in the langlinks table and thus are ignored in
 certain reports and also in the respective export

 I am not sure how to reach out to the respective Wikipedia
 communities, or if I should at all. Should I post to their respective
 version of the village pump? Remembering from the time I was active on
 the Croatian Wikipedia, I would have appreciated that list to check
 the entries. I reckoned the wikipedia-l list would be the right place,
 but that list looks rather dead.

 Cheers,
 Denny

 --
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 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
 Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de

 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
 Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
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 Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6

2012-06-13 Thread Deryck Chan
On a separate note about IPv6: I just saw the first IPv6 anon entry
appearing on my watchlist. It's exciting!
Deryck

On 13 June 2012 13:43, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:

 On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 6:39 PM, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl
 wrote:
  I noticed that my current IPv6 address appears to be assigned
  dynamically by XS4ALL. I can probably get static if I choose it. But the
  dynamic assignment option does alleviate some people's privacy
  concerns, right?

 One particular concern, which isn't really much different from IPv4.

 And in something like 90% of browser configurations, you're already
 giving out a semi-static unique string with every request anyway.
 (see https://panopticlick.eff.org/)

 The bigger concern for WMF is the possibility for increased privacy.

  ps. We all know that everyone needs to switch to IPv6 eventually.

 Unless IPv7 or IPv8 comes out first.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] TomTom does a Britannica

2012-05-29 Thread Deryck Chan
I was skeptical with parent-like satnavs when they were first
introduced back then; I still am skeptical today. What's inadequate
about Read map*, pay attention to the road, use brain?

Deryck

*I'm a big fan of using the automatic route-planning features of map
systems like Google Maps or even TomTom to help me plan routes. It's
just that the assumption that a machine is correct about the real
world is simply wrong.

On 29 May 2012 12:32, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
 Ha, makes for a good read. Thanks for sharing, David!

 Richard Symonds
 Wikimedia UK
 0207 065 0992
 Disclaimer viewable at
 http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Email_disclaimer
 Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk



 On 29 May 2012 12:28, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:

 TomTom press release:
 http://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/licensing/newsletter/201205/didyouknow/

 OpenStreetMap volunteer response:
 http://www.systemed.net/blog/index.php?post=23 Flags TomTom
 quote-mining.


 - d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] No internet censorship in Hong Kong

2012-05-11 Thread Deryck Chan
Not a problem. Many east and south-east Asian countries' citizens enjoy
visa-free access to Hong Kong (
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HK_Visa_Policy.png ).

Visa-on-demand for business or leisure travel is also available for
residents of most major cities in mainland China and all of Guangdong
province (the province surrounding Hong Kong). Application needs to be done
prior to travel, but rejections of such visa is unheard of in the last few
years. I have relatives from Guangzhou who visit Hong Kong regularly on
these visas and they've never had a problem :)

That said, more complex procedures are needed for people from rural areas
of mainland China to visit Hong Kong. With our working partnerships in the
Meeting and Exhibition Office in the government, we endeavour to ensure
that every registered attendee of Wikimania 2013 gets the visa assistance
they need.

There are special visa for residents of Taiwan to visit Hong Kong. Other
than a few extraordinary cases involving high-profile controversial
politicians, rejection of such visa is also unheard of.

Deryck

On 11 May 2012 22:53, Katie Chan k...@ktchan.info wrote:

 On 11/05/2012 21:16, Kim Bruning wrote:

  Right. My concern about Israel was that almost no one from the
 surrounding area would be
 able to visit.  (This turned out to be accurate, but it was too late to
 fix).

 Will many people from surrounding countries be able to visit .hk without
 problems? If so,
 that should be ok then.

 That and I'm looking forward to visiting a place with sane border customs
 practices for a
 change ;-)


 While pretty much every countries from Europe, NS America  Australasia
 are visa free according to the bid page, a lot of Asian and Middle Eastern
 countries would require visa. Even those places from where visa would be
 required, they should be okay I believe. Ironically, the only exception to
 that is if the person is from mainland China (PRC).



 KTC

 --
 Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] No internet censorship in Hong Kong

2012-05-10 Thread Deryck Chan
Dear all,

It has come to the attention of the Wikimania 2013 Hong Kong organizing
team that there may be confusion over the situation of internet censorship
in China and whether it affects Hong Kong. [1]

We would like to clarify that, although Hong Kong has been nominally part
of the People's Republic of China since 1997, the city-state of Hong Kong
retains complete independence over civilian affairs. This, of course, means
that internet regulation in Hong Kong is completely separate from that of
Mainland China, and therefore internet censorship in Mainland China (the
Great Firewall of China, [2]) does not apply to Hong Kong.

We would like to reassure all Wikimedians, especially those considering to
attend Wikimania 2013, that *Wikipedia has never been censored in Hong Kong*.
Visitors to Hong Kong will enjoy, among other things such as exuberant
local cuisine and efficient public transport, uncensored internet
connection and unhindered access to Wikimedia projects.

We hope to see you all at Wikimania 2012 in Washington DC and Wikimania
2013 in Hong Kong.

With best wishes,
Deryck Chan
Global engagement coordinator
Wikimania 2013 organizing team / Wikimedia Hong Kong

[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-05-07/News_and_notes
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall

(cross-posted to wikimania-l, internal-l and wikimedia-l)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] No internet censorship in Hong Kong

2012-05-10 Thread Deryck Chan
Todd,
I'm afraid you've mistaken. Hong Kong is fiscally independent from the rest
of China, and not a single cent of the Hong Kong government's income is
passed on to the PRC government in Beijing.
Deryck

On 10 May 2012 22:27, Todd Allen toddmal...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Deryck Chan deryckc...@wikimedia.hk
 wrote:
  Dear all,
 
  It has come to the attention of the Wikimania 2013 Hong Kong organizing
  team that there may be confusion over the situation of internet
 censorship
  in China and whether it affects Hong Kong. [1]
 
  We would like to clarify that, although Hong Kong has been nominally part
  of the People's Republic of China since 1997, the city-state of Hong Kong
  retains complete independence over civilian affairs. This, of course,
 means
  that internet regulation in Hong Kong is completely separate from that of
  Mainland China, and therefore internet censorship in Mainland China (the
  Great Firewall of China, [2]) does not apply to Hong Kong.
 
  We would like to reassure all Wikimedians, especially those considering
 to
  attend Wikimania 2013, that *Wikipedia has never been censored in Hong
 Kong*.
  Visitors to Hong Kong will enjoy, among other things such as exuberant
  local cuisine and efficient public transport, uncensored internet
  connection and unhindered access to Wikimedia projects.
 
  We hope to see you all at Wikimania 2012 in Washington DC and Wikimania
  2013 in Hong Kong.
 
  With best wishes,
  Deryck Chan
  Global engagement coordinator
  Wikimania 2013 organizing team / Wikimedia Hong Kong
 
  [1]
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-05-07/News_and_notes
  [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall
 
  (cross-posted to wikimania-l, internal-l and wikimedia-l)
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 It is still disgraceful that WMF, an organization supposedly devoted
 to free information, is implicitly supporting a regime that routinely
 and as a matter of policy refuses free information flow to its
 citizens. Hong Kong in particular may not do that, but Hong Kong is
 part of China, and China does. China will receive money from this
 event.

 Perhaps Google and the like are concerned only with profit and will do
 business in China regardless of ethical considerations, but WMF is a
 nonprofit dedicated to the exact opposite of China's policies, and
 should refuse to provide any monetary support for China until and
 unless China removes all censorship from its population. The fact that
 it has failed to do so, and is indeed implicitly supporting China, has
 me strongly reconsidering both my editorial and monetary support.

 --
 Freedom is the right to say that 2+2=4. From this all else follows.

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