[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wikisource-l] Google not indexing Wikisource for last few years now.

2023-08-01 Thread Ilario valdelli

To better index, you must follow as much as possible structured page.

More gadget you use, more unreadable is the pages to the machines.

Try to have a blind person reading the Wikisource pages with their own 
tools. Will it be difficult for them? Found the problem.


You want to create pages which are more user friendly? But you do it for 
people having eyes. Machines doesn't have eyes.


KInd regards

On 01/08/2023 08:47, Bodhisattwa wrote:

Hello all,

Apologies for cross-posting.

For those who have not noticed till now, Google is not indexing any 
Wikisource language editions for the last couple of years which 
practically means that any Wikisource contents in any languages, which 
are being created in these years, are not searchable on Google and 
hence largely remain invisible on the web.


This is an extremely demotivating and frustrating situation for the 
existing Wikisource volunteers to witness, draining away all of our 
past and current efforts to bring and retain viewers, readers, GLAM 
partners and any potential new editors. We already have a very low 
awareness and visibility about Wikisource among general internet users 
due to lack of organized support in these years but the invisibility 
on Google search engine could become the last nail in our coffin, 
unless it is fixed soon.


There is a phabricator ticket raised by Darwinius back in December 
2022 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T325607.


Can't this issue be put into priority by sys admins and WMF to work 
upon? Wikisource is still a sister project of Wikimedia and it needs 
some very basic care, after all.


Regards,
Bodhisattwa
(Bengali Wikisource volunteer)


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[Wikimedia-l] Re: activity around Wikimedia.ru

2023-05-26 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I know Medeyko as he started long time ago and may be it was also in the
Affcom if I remember well. That time it was strange to consider how a
person that basically was not able to communicate in English (or in other
language than Russian) was part of a committee.

What is strange is the time taken by the chapter to react to this situation.

I strongly agree that the problem of governance in chapters and user groups
is quite serious.

Sometimes the capacity of reaction to situations of bad governance is on
the shoulders of the same chapter.

The disconnection from the community stresses more that because the chapter
misses one important stakeholder that in some cases can unblock the
situation of renovation.

This resume is quite shocking honestly and also the naivity of Medeyko to
fork a collaborative project without a community.

Good luck

On Thu, 25 May 2023, 20:13 Yaroslav Blanter,  wrote:

> This story made some headlines in Russian-language media, and I guess it
> could be of general interest here.
>
> Vladimir Medeyko, who has been the president of Wikimedia.ru, the Russian
> chapter of WMF, since its foundation in the 2000s, announced yesterday that
> he is starting a Russian Wikipedia fork [1]. The media on the payroll of
> the Russian government, which for a long time were saying that Wikipedia is
> an anti-government and anti-Russian project and must be blocked in Russia,
> supported the initiative, commenting that this is exactly the start of a
> pro-government encyclopedia which would replace the Russian Wikipedia.
>
> Wikimedia.ru, whose main (or even exclusive) activity was to raise money
> to pay salaries to the functionaries including Mr. Medeyko was suddenly
> pissed off and held a meeting yesterday. Before the meeting, Mr. Medeyko
> said he does not see a problem with his actions, however, being in danger
> of getting expelled from the chapter he resigned and quit the chapter.
>
> The Russian Wikipedia community, which knew that Mr. Medeyko supported the
> Russian invasion of Ukraine, and which was critical against his activity on
> advocacy for his paid editor friends, was pissed off as well.[2] He first
> responded that he has taken the only correct decision, and everybody else
> eventually would understand why the decision was correct. However, later he
> resigned his admin flag, was blocked indef, and now has an arbitration case
> pending against him. The discussions are ongoing whether having a chapter
> in Russia at all is now beneficial, however, the chapter was for many years
> totally disconnected from the community anyway.
>
> I could add my personal perspective, since on- and off-wiki activity of
> Mr. Medeyko was one of the reasons why I stopped editing the Russian
> Wikipedia in 2011, after having served two terms as an arbitrator, and
> never came back, but I do not think this is important at the moment.
>
> Best
> Yaroslav
>
> [1] https://habr.com/ru/companies/ruwiki/articles/737260/
> [2]
> https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC/%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8#%D0%A0%D1%83%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%BE%D1%82_%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B0_%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B9%D0%BA%D0%BE
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: ChatGPT as a reliable source

2023-05-17 Thread Ilario valdelli

Define "reliable source".

A source is reliable if can be consulted by other people than the editor 
to check the content.


Is this possible with ChatGPT? No, becaue if you address the same 
question to CHatGPT, you will have a different answer.


In this case how the people verificaying the information can check that 
the editor did not invent the result?


Kind regards

On 17/05/2023 09:08, Kiril Simeonovski wrote:

Dear Wikimedians,

Two days ago, a participant in one of our edit-a-thons consulted 
ChatGPT when writing an article on the Macedonian Wikipedia that did 
not exist on any other language edition. ChatGPT provided some output, 
but the problem was how to cite it.


The community on the Macedonian Wikipedia has not yet had a discussion 
on this matter and we do not have any guidelines. So, my main 
questions are the following:


* Can ChatGPT be used as a reliable source and, if yes, how would the 
citation look like?


* Are there any ongoing community discussions on introducing guidelines?

My personal opinion is that ChatGPT should be avoided as a reliable 
source, and only the original source where the algorithm gets the 
information from should be used.


Best regards,
Kiril

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikianswers Proposal

2023-05-15 Thread Ilario valdelli
I think that here the proposal is to have a new sister project 
(https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_projects).


There is a long list: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_new_projects


The concept behind a new sister project is the capacity to build a 
community and an enthusastic group of people.


The policy is here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/New_project_process

There is nothing about capacity and risk management.

I wanted to encourage Adam after some very demotivating comments and to 
look to the positive aspects that, in my opinion, are present in this idea.


To start his project, he needs 10 interested participants / supporters. 
Are you interested?


Kind regards

On 15/05/2023 19:16, Risker wrote:
Sohow much does it cost to develop and run an entirely new and 
different type of project?  Who develops it?  How much would the 
hosting cost on an ongoing basis?  Is this project more important and 
more needed than an existing project type?


These aren't small questions; they are in fact the questions that need 
to be asked every time we come up with an idea (no matter how great 
the idea) for a new project type. Contrary to popular belief, there 
isn't an unlimited budget, and there aren't unlimited staffing 
resources for these things.  Everything costs real money and the time 
of real people, and we as a broad community need to be far more 
cognizant of the limitations of these resources, and the likelihood 
that the financial situation is not going to change significantly in 
the coming five years.


Personally, I think this is an idea with possibilities, but it is a 
very expensive one because it will need an entirely different way of 
operating.  So...where would be cut costs to make this possible?  
Should we close some little-used projects so they no longer draw on 
our limited pool of resources? Should we cut back on 
volunteer/community safety and resources?


There are always trade-offs.  In the WMF annual plan, they talk about 
some of those trade-offs.  This is another one. New, different 
projects need to be able to justify their cost and existence. In fact, 
in the not-too-distant future, I can foresee that some minimal-use 
projects may also have to justify their existence.  I am all in favour 
of being visionary - but I'm also in favour of planting these visions 
in solid ground.


Risker/Anne

On Mon, 15 May 2023 at 12:19, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

I like the idea.

Sometimes people need a simple answer.

At the moment to receive an answer from Wikipedia for some
articles people need a Phd.

A solution like that can give a smart and quick and understable
answer.

Kind regards

On Mon, 15 May 2023, 11:48 Adam Sobieski,
 wrote:

Wikimedia,

Per the recent interest in and discussions about artificial
intelligence in this mailing list, I am pleased to indicate
the /Wikianswers/ project proposal. The proposal describes
some approaches for integrating these technologies (e.g.,
multimodal dialogue systems, chatbots, and question-answering
systems) with existing Wiki platforms.

"Wikianswers would be a large-scale, user-editable cache of
multimodal answers from artificial intelligence systems, e.g.,
one or more large language models, which tightly integrates
with Wikipedia, Wikidata, and Commons."

This project proposal is described in more detail here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikianswers .

Thank you. Please feel free to review the project proposal and
to comment either here or there with any opinions, questions,
feedback, or suggestions.


Best regards,
Adam Sobieski

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikianswers Proposal

2023-05-15 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I like the idea.

Sometimes people need a simple answer.

At the moment to receive an answer from Wikipedia for some articles people
need a Phd.

A solution like that can give a smart and quick and understable answer.

Kind regards

On Mon, 15 May 2023, 11:48 Adam Sobieski,  wrote:

> Wikimedia,
>
> Per the recent interest in and discussions about artificial intelligence in 
> this
> mailing list, I am pleased to indicate the *Wikianswers* project
> proposal. The proposal describes some approaches for integrating these
> technologies (e.g., multimodal dialogue systems, chatbots, and
> question-answering systems) with existing Wiki platforms.
>
> "Wikianswers would be a large-scale, user-editable cache of multimodal
> answers from artificial intelligence systems, e.g., one or more large
> language models, which tightly integrates with Wikipedia, Wikidata, and
> Commons."
>
> This project proposal is described in more detail here:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikianswers .
>
> Thank you. Please feel free to review the project proposal and to comment
> either here or there with any opinions, questions, feedback, or suggestions.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Adam Sobieski
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT

2023-02-05 Thread Ilario Valdelli
There is a problem of incompatibility of examples of AI like ChatGPT.

1st: Wikipedia is not primary source, the references are important. In
ChatGPT there are statements but not references to support the statements.

2nd: Bias. In Wikipedia all positions for a problem must be indicated.
ChatGPT is not able to describe the different positions. It takes generally
only one.

3rd: disambiguation. Examples like ChatGPT don't process well the
disambiguation. It means that the system has a weak AI. It looks that in
case of disambiguation, it takes only one meaning.

4th: neutral point of view. Examples like ChatGPT don't give a neutral
answer. Frequently they are trained to take a specific answer.

However I personally consider that investigate in AI makes sense because AI
is doing a lot of progress and Wikimedia projects can benefit.

But ChatGPT is a bad example for Wikimedia projects.

Kind regards

On Fri, 30 Dec 2022, 01:09 Victoria Coleman, 
wrote:

> Hi everyone. I have seen some of the reactions to the narratives generated
> by Chat GPT. There is an obvious question (to me at least) as to whether a
> Wikipedia chat bot would be a legitimate UI for some users. To that end, I
> would have hoped that it would have been developed by the WMF but the
> Foundation has historically massively underinvested in AI. That said, and
> assuming that GPT Open source licensing is compatible with the movement
> norms, should the WMF include that UI in the product?
>
> My other question is around the corpus that Open AI is using to train the
> bot. It is creating very fluid narratives that are massively false in many
> cases. Are they training on Wikipedia? Something else?
>
> And to my earlier question, if GPT were to be trained on Wikipedia
> exclusively would that help abate the false narratives?
>
> This is a significant matter for the  community and seeing us step to it
> would be very encouraging.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Victoria Coleman
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT

2023-02-05 Thread Ilario Valdelli
And this is a problem.

If ChatGPT uses open content, there is an infringement of license.

Specifically the CC-by-sa if it uses Wikipedia. In this case the
attribution must be present.

Kind regards

On Sun, 5 Feb 2023, 08:12 Peter Southwood, 
wrote:

> “Not citing sources is probably a conscious design choice, as citing
> sources would mean sharing the sources used to train the language models”
> This may be a choice that comes back to bite them. Without citing their
> sources, they are unreliable as a source for anything one does not know
> already. Someone will have a bad consequence from relying on the
> information and will sue the publisher. It will be interesting to see how
> they plan to weasel their way out of legal responsibility while retaining
> any credibility. My guess is there will be a requirement to state that the
> information is AI generated and of entirely unknown and untested
> reliability. How soon to the first class action, I wonder. Lots of money
> for the lawyers. Cheers, Peter.
>
>
>
> *From:* Subhashish [mailto:psubhash...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 05 February 2023 06:37
> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT
>
>
>
> Just to clarify, my point was not about Getty to begin with. Whether Getty
> would win and whether a big corporation should own such a large amount of
> visual content are questions outside this particular thread. It would
> certainly be interesting to see how things roll.
>
>
>
> But AI/ML is way more than just looking. Training with large models is a
> very sophisticated and technical process. Data annotation among many other
> forms of labour are done by real people. the article I had linked earlier
> tells a lot about the real world consequences of AI. I'm certain AI/ML,
> especially when we're talking about language models like ChatGPT, are far
> from innocent looking/reading. For starters, derivative of works, except
> Public Domain ones, must attribute the authors. Any provision for
> attribution is deliberately removed from systems like ChatGPT and that only
> gives corporations like OpenAI a free ride sans accountability.
>
>
>
> Subhashish
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 4:41 PM Todd Allen  wrote:
>
> I'm not so sure Getty's got a case, though. If the images are on the Web,
> is using them to train an AI something copyright would cover? That to me
> seems more equivalent to just looking at the images, and there's no
> copyright problem in going to Getty's site and just looking at a bunch of
> their pictures.
>
>
>
> But it will be interesting to see how that one shakes out.
>
>
>
> Todd
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 11:47 AM Subhashish  wrote:
>
> Not citing sources is probably a conscious design choice, as citing
> sources would mean sharing the sources used to train the language models.
> Getty has just sued Stability AI, alleging the use of 12 million
> photographs without permission or compensation. Imagine if Stability had to
> purchase from Getty through a legal process. For starters, Getty might not
> have agreed in the first place. Bulk-scaping publicly visible text in
> text-based AIs like ChatGPT would mean scraping text with copyright. But
> even reusing CC BY-SA content would require attribution. None of the AI
> platforms attributes their sources because they did not acquire content in
> legal and ethical ways [1]. Large language models won't be large and
> releases won't happen fast if they actually start acquiring content
> gradually from trustworthy sources. It took so many years for hundreds and
> thousands of Wikimedians to take Wikipedias in different languages to where
> they are for a reason.
>
>
>
> 1. https://time.com/6247678/openai-chatgpt-kenya-workers/
>
>
> Subhashish
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 1:06 PM Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
> From what I have seen the AIs are not great on citing sources. If they
> start citing reliable sources, their contributions can be verified, or not.
> If they produce verifiable, adequately sourced, well written information,
> are they a problem or a solution?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> *From:* Gnangarra [mailto:gnanga...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 04 February 2023 17:04
> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT
>
>
>
> I see our biggest challenge is going to be detecting these AI tools adding
> content whether it's media or articles, along with identifying when they
> are in use by sources.  The failing of all new AI is not in its ability but
> in the lack of transparency with that being able to be identified by the
> readers. We have seen people impersonating musicians and writing songs in
> their style. We have also seen pictures that have been created by copying
> someone else's work yet not acknowledging it as being derivative of any
> kind.
>
>
>
> Our big problems will be in ensuring that copyright is respected in
> legally, and not hosting anything that is even remotely dubious
>
>
>
> On Sat, 4 Feb 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Announcing the six candidates for the 2022 Board of Trustees election

2022-07-23 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I think that there is a very sensible point here.

Sometimes behind some usergroups there is not a specific community but only
few people and sometimes some usergroups are "userpersons".

Being more transparent helps to demonstrate that the whole process has been
conducted appropriately but also to have an overview that affiliates have
voted really on what their community proposed.

Kind regards

On Sat, Jul 23, 2022 at 3:28 AM Gnangarra  wrote:

> I am disturbed to see some community members blithely dismissing the need
>> to protect the well-being of potentially vulnerable community members,
>
>
> This is not some functionary volunteer role, nor is it a scholarship to
> attend some event. The affiliate and the members of the Board of Trustees
> are both very public facing aspects, when a person is on the Board of
> Trustees their identity is public
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/ .  It is obvious that a
> truly  vulnerable person would not even put themselves into a BOT
> position.  It's important for members of the community to know who their
> affiliate chose to represent them because it's a reflection of that
> community.  I know some affiliates actually didnt consult their communities
> for input into the decision process before the fact so knowing after the
> fact is at least pretending to be transparent in the voting.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 at 06:01, Benjamin Lees  wrote:
>
>> I don't think there's anything blithe in pointing out that an
>> after-the-fact promise of secrecy serves no one.  Affiliates had to decide
>> whether to vote without knowing whether the list would be published (but
>> hopefully realizing that the username of their voter would be published,
>> although I'm not sure if this was made clear).  The main effect of post-hoc
>> secrecy here would be to sow confusion and set up unrealistic expectations
>> about future votes; in the last affiliate-selected board seat process, not
>> only was the list of voting affiliates published, but *their individual
>> votes were as well*: <
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Asbs_presentation_matches_with_stv_py_results.pdf>,
>> and for the reasons Lodewijk describes, we might well wish to return to
>> such full transparency in the future.
>>
>> If a decision either way had been made and communicated beforehand,
>> affiliate voters could have made an informed decision, but as with most of
>> the rules for this election, it was announced in the middle of the
>> election, rather than in the many months before it.  In any event, I agree
>> with SJ that this is a decision to be made by the elections committee, not
>> WMF staff.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 4:45 PM Robert Fernandez 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am disturbed to see some community members blithely dismissing the
>>> need to protect the well-being of potentially vulnerable community members,
>>> especially in a community that usually prides itself on the ability to
>>> participate anonymously.
>>>
>>> That said, perhaps we could publish the names of participating
>>> affiliates who affirm the wish to be named publicly.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Announcing the six candidates for the 2022 Board of Trustees election

2022-07-21 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Considering this list, there is no sense to don't make public which
affiliated has voted.

Kind regards


On Thu, 21 Jul 2022, 16:09 Jan Ainali,  wrote:

> I think that what was requested was which affiliates that voted, not which
> individuals.
>
> But we should note, that the list of users who represented the
> affiliations and voted is already public here:
> https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/list/1350
>
> /Jan Ainali
>
> Den tors 21 juli 2022 kl 06:14 skrev Jackie Koerner <
> jkoer...@wikimedia.org>:
>
>> Hi Alice and Adamw,
>>
>> Thanks for this question. This has been a question those of us on the
>> team supporting the election asked ourselves: do we publish the
>> participants publicly, or no?
>>
>> Movement Strategy and Governance is made up of facilitators from around
>> the world. We all have a broad experience with cultures and community
>> experiences. Several facilitators said some affiliates from their regions
>> decided not to participate to avoid the risk of being labeled and accused
>> of engaging with a foreign organization. The aim is to protect those
>> organizations and individuals who did participate from extra attention that
>> might have real and lasting effects for them.
>>
>> For the reason above, making the list of participants more obvious is not
>> something that we wish to do so we can protect the people in our
>> communities who are vulnerable to just how political participating in free
>> knowledge still is in much of the world.
>>
>> If any organization needs to have documentation of their participation,
>> we can gladly supply that on an individual basis.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Jackie
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 6:46 AM Adam Wight 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 to this question, and whether we can make the list of voting
>>> affiliates public in the same way that we publicize the voting rolls for
>>> individuals participating in Community [S]elections.  The results page [1]
>>> shows that 112 affiliate organizations each cast one vote.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> [[meta:User:Adamw]]
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2022/Results/Affiliate_organization_voting
>>> On 7/19/22 21:11, Alice Wiegand wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jackie,
>>> Thanks for sharing the result. Where can we find information about how
>>> many chapters/thematic organizations and usergroups have casted their votes?
>>>
>>> Alice.
>>>
>>> Am 19.07.2022 um 19:32 schrieb Jackie Koerner :
>>>
>>> *You can find this message translated into additional languages on
>>> Meta-wiki.
>>> *
>>>  Please help translate to your language
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> The Affiliate voting process has concluded. Representatives from each
>>> Affiliate organization learned about the candidates by reading candidates’
>>> statements, reviewing candidates’ answers to questions, and considering the
>>> candidates’ ratings provided by the Analysis Committee. The selected 2022
>>> Board of Trustees candidates are:
>>>
>>>- Tobechukwu Precious Friday (Tochiprecious
>>>)
>>>- Farah Jack Mustaklem (Fjmustak
>>>)
>>>- Shani Evenstein Sigalov (Esh77
>>>)
>>>- Kunal Mehta (Legoktm 
>>>)
>>>- Michał Buczyński (Aegis Maelstrom
>>>)
>>>- Mike Peel (Mike Peel
>>>)
>>>
>>> You may see more information about the Results
>>> 
>>>  and Statistics
>>> 
>>>  of
>>> this Board election.
>>> Please take a moment to appreciate the Affiliate Representatives and
>>> Analysis Committee members for taking part in this process and helping to
>>> grow the Board of Trustees in capacity and diversity. These hours of
>>> volunteer work connect us across understanding and perspective. Thank you
>>> for your participation.
>>> Thank you to the community members who put themselves forward as
>>> candidates for the Board of Trustees. Considering joining the Board of
>>> Trustees is no small decision. The time and dedication candidates have
>>> shown to this point speaks to their commitment to this movement.
>>> Congratulations to those candidates who have been selected. A great amount
>>> of appreciation and gratitude for those candidates not 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Announcing the six candidates for the 2022 Board of Trustees election

2022-07-21 Thread Ilario Valdelli
For transparency purposes there is no question to ask. Surely the list must
be public.

Is WMF a transparent organization?

Kind regards

On Thu, 21 Jul 2022, 06:14 Jackie Koerner,  wrote:

> Hi Alice and Adamw,
>
> Thanks for this question. This has been a question those of us on the team
> supporting the election asked ourselves: do we publish the participants
> publicly, or no?
>
> Movement Strategy and Governance is made up of facilitators from around
> the world. We all have a broad experience with cultures and community
> experiences. Several facilitators said some affiliates from their regions
> decided not to participate to avoid the risk of being labeled and accused
> of engaging with a foreign organization. The aim is to protect those
> organizations and individuals who did participate from extra attention that
> might have real and lasting effects for them.
>
> For the reason above, making the list of participants more obvious is not
> something that we wish to do so we can protect the people in our
> communities who are vulnerable to just how political participating in free
> knowledge still is in much of the world.
>
> If any organization needs to have documentation of their participation, we
> can gladly supply that on an individual basis.
>
> Best,
>
> Jackie
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 6:46 AM Adam Wight 
> wrote:
>
>> +1 to this question, and whether we can make the list of voting
>> affiliates public in the same way that we publicize the voting rolls for
>> individuals participating in Community [S]elections.  The results page [1]
>> shows that 112 affiliate organizations each cast one vote.
>>
>> Regards,
>> [[meta:User:Adamw]]
>>
>> [1]
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2022/Results/Affiliate_organization_voting
>> On 7/19/22 21:11, Alice Wiegand wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jackie,
>> Thanks for sharing the result. Where can we find information about how
>> many chapters/thematic organizations and usergroups have casted their votes?
>>
>> Alice.
>>
>> Am 19.07.2022 um 19:32 schrieb Jackie Koerner :
>>
>> *You can find this message translated into additional languages on
>> Meta-wiki.
>> *
>>  Please help translate to your language
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> The Affiliate voting process has concluded. Representatives from each
>> Affiliate organization learned about the candidates by reading candidates’
>> statements, reviewing candidates’ answers to questions, and considering the
>> candidates’ ratings provided by the Analysis Committee. The selected 2022
>> Board of Trustees candidates are:
>>
>>- Tobechukwu Precious Friday (Tochiprecious
>>)
>>- Farah Jack Mustaklem (Fjmustak
>>)
>>- Shani Evenstein Sigalov (Esh77
>>)
>>- Kunal Mehta (Legoktm )
>>- Michał Buczyński (Aegis Maelstrom
>>)
>>- Mike Peel (Mike Peel
>>)
>>
>> You may see more information about the Results
>> 
>>  and Statistics
>> 
>>  of
>> this Board election.
>> Please take a moment to appreciate the Affiliate Representatives and
>> Analysis Committee members for taking part in this process and helping to
>> grow the Board of Trustees in capacity and diversity. These hours of
>> volunteer work connect us across understanding and perspective. Thank you
>> for your participation.
>> Thank you to the community members who put themselves forward as
>> candidates for the Board of Trustees. Considering joining the Board of
>> Trustees is no small decision. The time and dedication candidates have
>> shown to this point speaks to their commitment to this movement.
>> Congratulations to those candidates who have been selected. A great amount
>> of appreciation and gratitude for those candidates not selected. Please
>> continue to share your leadership with Wikimedia.
>> Thank you to those who followed the Affiliate process for this Board
>> election. You may review the results of the Affiliate selection process.
>> The next part of the Board election process is the community voting
>> period. You may view the Board election timeline here
>> 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Affiliations Committee's standing on hubs and its role in the process

2022-07-17 Thread Ilario Valdelli
;> Thematic Organizations. Our role, as it has evolved, is to support these
>>> different entities as they come into being and then as they grow, ensure
>>> that they integrate best practices and with a view to long-term
>>> sustainability. This has provided AffCom with both a broad overview, as
>>> well as a deep understanding, of the various challenges faced by
>>> affiliates across a range of circumstances that include socio-cultural
>>> issues and affiliate-based conflicts. Hubs are intended to function as
>>> formal movement bodies constituted by existing groups and/or affiliates,
>>> able to  use Wikimedia trademarks to present their association. They
>>> will need to be independent, legally constituted Affiliates, recognised
>>> by the Board of Trustees. This introduces a significant and exciting new
>>> Affiliate model to our movement and AffCom would welcome the opportunity
>>> to bring our institutional knowledge and experience to assist in their
>>> development.
>>>
>>> Recognising the principles of subsidiarity, the committee would like to
>>> offer its support as an advisory body for the Hubs piloting process,
>>> working with the community to develop a process that will lead,
>>> ultimately, to their approval by the WMF Board of Trustees.
>>>
>>>
>>> Wojciech Pędzich
>>> on behalf of AffCom
>>> ___
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>>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/JKTUL7UPO3U37WNFF4B4B5SNDTXFR62P/
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> GN.
>
>
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-- 
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
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Skype: valdelli
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Affiliations Committee's standing on hubs and its role in the process

2022-07-12 Thread Ilario Valdelli
That's a good option but I suppose that the same Affcom structure must be
re-considered probably enlarging the number of members and diversifying
more in terms of representatives of the different stakeholders (including
maybe more people from the affiliates and chapters?).

This discussion should be naturally a discussion done by the community and
not by the Affcom itself, naturally, like it's happening for the whole
strategy.

Kind regards

On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 8:54 PM Wojciech Pędzich  wrote:

> During the strategic meeting of the Affiliations Committee (AffCom) in
> Paris on June 24-26, members discussed how AffCom may be able to support
> the movement in relation to the upcoming Hubs pilot process. We reviewed
> two issues – whether it was within AffCom’s remit to contribute to the
> Hub pilot process and if so, what our involvement might look like.
>
> AffCom has, since its inception in 2004, worked directly with all
> Affiliates across the movement, i.e.: User Groups, Chapters, and
> Thematic Organizations. Our role, as it has evolved, is to support these
> different entities as they come into being and then as they grow, ensure
> that they integrate best practices and with a view to long-term
> sustainability. This has provided AffCom with both a broad overview, as
> well as a deep understanding, of the various challenges faced by
> affiliates across a range of circumstances that include socio-cultural
> issues and affiliate-based conflicts. Hubs are intended to function as
> formal movement bodies constituted by existing groups and/or affiliates,
> able to  use Wikimedia trademarks to present their association. They
> will need to be independent, legally constituted Affiliates, recognised
> by the Board of Trustees. This introduces a significant and exciting new
> Affiliate model to our movement and AffCom would welcome the opportunity
> to bring our institutional knowledge and experience to assist in their
> development.
>
> Recognising the principles of subsidiarity, the committee would like to
> offer its support as an advisory body for the Hubs piloting process,
> working with the community to develop a process that will lead,
> ultimately, to their approval by the WMF Board of Trustees.
>
>
> Wojciech Pędzich
> on behalf of AffCom
> ___
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-- 
Ilario Valdelli
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Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
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Skype: valdelli
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Three Month Update & Wikimedia Foundation Draft Annual Plan

2022-04-15 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Finally something that has a lot of sense.

The question of increasing of budget is an important point also looking to
the overlapping with affiliates.

There are several activities done by WMF and by affiliates with the
difference that affiliates do these activities in local languages.

In a movement that should be multilingual, checking what the affiliates
already do, would be welcome.

To be inclusive the first step is to communicate and operate in the local
language.

Kind regards


On Thu, 14 Apr 2022, 15:48 Maryana Iskander, 
wrote:

> This message is being translated into other languages on Meta-wiki.
> 
>
> ‎العربية • español • français • Русский • 中文 • Português bosanski
> You can help with more languages.
> 
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> It’s my third time writing to you in this format. My first note was on
> September 14 last year when my appointment was announced [1], then on
> January 14 when I shared what I heard from many of you on the listening
> tour [2], and now on April 14 to reflect on my first three months as CEO of
> the Wikimedia Foundation. I am home in South Africa after a few months in
> the United States, where the highlight of joining Wikimedia has been
> bringing colleagues together – volunteers, editors, affiliates, Foundation
> staff, board members – to reconnect at a human level. I sense that
> gathering in person again, where it is safe and practical to do so, may
> help us all build and rebuild relationships.
>
> Reinforcing connections to each other, and to the world beyond us, is some
> of what I reflected on in my “Puzzles and Priorities” letter, which
> followed from conversations with hundreds of Wikimedians. [2]  Three months
> later, I wanted to share some of the progress we’ve started to make on the
> priorities.
>
> Priority 1: Foundation’s Annual Plan
>
> My top priority was reimagining the way we approached planning at the
> Wikimedia Foundation. Since January, we have done the following:
>
>-
>
>We started by asking what the world needs from us now - a question I
>heard from many of you last year.  One starting point for this year’s
>planning was to look at some (not all) of the key trends shaping the world
>around us: from the rise of government regulation to the increased threats
>of misinformation and disinformation, the changing nature of search, and
>growing global demands for content. We hosted a staff conversation in
>January and
>
> asked
>communities for their additional insights. [3]
>-
>
>We then tried to answer – in two ways – the question of how the
>Foundation’s current resources were being allocated now: (1) an
>organizational overview looking at how the Foundation collectively supports
>Wikimedia projects, regions, language communities and audiences; and (2)
>department overviews to help our staff understand all of the current work.
>These processes have gone through 2-3 iterations since January based on
>suggestions for further improvement from our teams.
>-
>
>We also provided guidance on slower budget growth. The Wikimedia
>Foundation has grown very rapidly over the past 3 years – increasing
>its budget by more than 30% in the past year with the addition of more than
>200 new people since 2020. [4] This will not continue as we stabilize
>this expansion and make sure that new resources are delivering maximum
>impact for our mission. We anticipate a 17% increase in our 2022−2023
>budget, most of this representing inflationary and other year-on-year
>costs. Funding to other movement entities (individual and affiliate) will
>increase for next year by at least the same 17% percent, if not more.
>Because the vast majority of the Foundation’s own budget is allocated to
>staffing costs, our most important resource decisions are about the time
>and performance of our people and teams.
>-
>
>We spent time reflecting on the strategic direction that should guide
>our annual planning. The Wikimedia Foundation’s recent annual plans have
>identified important high-level goals and medium-term objectives
>
> .
>[5] Historically, it has not always been clear how these related to the
>movement strategy, a multi-year process to provide clarity of direction to
>2030. We have adopted the strategic direction of our Movement Strategy
>
> 
>[6] to guide 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Open Letter to Maryana Iskander

2022-04-12 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi
Some comments here too.

While in general the points are important and relevant, the 7 and 8
continue to be based on a geographical separation that it's almost updated
and is itself discriminatory.

If you base the discussion to the war between Europa and America vs
remaining world or to White people Vs World, the culture will remain not
neutral.

It makes more sense to speak about minorities in general as the point 10
stresses.

I am an example because I am white, male, European and middle age so I fit
perfectly in the stereotype of majority but I am a Swiss Italian and I am a
minority for Italian language and a minority for the Swiss people.
Unfortunately my culture is at the edge to be considered of 'regional
interest' and can be under several conditions of cancellation.

I think that old models based on a geographical separation are quite
outdated.

Except European or North American cultures there are several and more
serious situations of dominant cultures against minorities and it is
happening in Brazil against local indigenous or in China or in Russia or
Egypt against Copts to give some examples.

In all previous cases it's always a dominant culture against minorities and
not necessarly European/North American Vs the World.

Kind regards


On Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 21:19 Frederick Noronha, 
wrote:

> https://www.opensourceforu.com/2022/01/an-open-letter-to-maryana-iskander/
>
> --
>
> 
>
>  April 2022  | Frederick Noronha. 784 Saligao 403511 Goa
>
> Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa | M (after 2pm) +91 9822122436 Twitter @fn
>
>   1  2 | 
>
>  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  | fredericknoron...@gmail.com
>
> 10 11 12 13 14 15 16  | Books. Words. Photos. Wikipedia. Networks
>
> 17 18 19 20 21 22 23  | PHOTOS: https://flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/
>
> 24 25 26 27 28 29 30  | VIDEOS: http://t.ly/58ji
>
> 
>
>
> [image: Mailtrack]
> 
>  Sender
> notified by
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Open letter on negating race and ethnicity as "meaningful distinctions" in the UCoC

2022-04-09 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I think that the statement of UCoC wants somehow consider that the
definition of racism and ethnicity has a different meaning in the current
time and needs to be updated because the risk is to use outdated models
that sometimes can generate more confusions than solutions.

The statement of Whose Knowledge is speaking about colonialism and WWII and
genocid of Europeans but not considering that in the current time the
biggest genocids or racists activiries happen in other continents done but
not Western Europeans.

Do we want to speak about China? Central Africa? Middle East? Russia?

The statement below looks like a historical nemesis that does not help
because the risk is to limit the problem to a single and outdated context
and to forget most critical and important contexts.

Until racism and ethnicity would be limited to Europeans vs World, I think
that it would be complicated to have a "not neutral" statement or a
statement that risks to be partial.

Kind regards


On Fri, 8 Apr 2022, 19:38 Anasuya Sengupta, 
wrote:

> Tl;dr Urgent need to address the note denying race and ethnicity as
> “meaningful distinctions among people” in the Universal Code of Conduct
> (UCoC). The current wording is highly problematic and can result in
> endorsing systemic and individual discrimination and violence on the basis
> of race and ethnicity, rather than preventing it.
>
> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> We are writing this letter as the Whose Knowledge? user group, both to
> Wikimedia-l, as well as adding it to the talk page for the UCoC.[0] We
> endorsed the UCoC in the community voting process because we are committed
> to its principles and intentions (indeed, some of us have been expressly
> working towards it within the movement for a very long time, in multiple
> ways).
>
> However, we continue to be deeply concerned about the current wording of a
> specific note in the UCoC: under Section 3.1 about Harassment, the note
> under Insults states that “The Wikimedia movement does not endorse "race"
> and "ethnicity" as meaningful distinctions among people. Their inclusion
> here is to mark that they are prohibited in use against others as the basis
> for personal attacks." (emphasis ours)[1]
>
> This is both manifestly incorrect and entirely against what we believe to
> be the principles and intentions of the UCoC. Other Wikimedians have
> already pointed out the deeply contradictory nature of this statement,
> including WJBScribe on the talk page in May 2021,[2] but their comments
> appear not to have been considered yet.
>
>
>
> By stating that "The Wikimedia movement does not endorse "race" and
> "ethnicity" as meaningful distinctions among people," those responsible
> for this text do not seem to fully grasp that:
>
>
>-
>
>Even though the concept of ‘race’ as a biological distinction has been
>refuted, ‘race’ as a social construct has been fully accepted by modern
>scholars.[3] Even more importantly, we know historically that the concept
>of ‘race’ was created and developed to serve and justify European
>colonialism in its quest to enslave, marginalize, oppress, dominate and
>exterminate black, brown and indigenous peoples in the lands they
>colonized. This form of “racial science” was also responsible for the
>genocide of Europeans who would otherwise be racialized as white outside of
>Europe, in particular during World War II. Since then the concept of ‘race’
>has been used to develop and create some of the most wide ranging systems
>of power and privilege that currently marginalize and oppress the majority
>of the world.
>-
>
>By denying or not ‘endorsing’ the existence of race as a “meaningful
>distinction among people”, the Wikimedia movement is not doing non-white
>people any favors or helping to end racism or racist demonstrations, such
>as insults based on race. As we’ve said before, being silent about racism
>doesn’t make it go away. It only creates the perfect environment for the
>continued existence of the deep structural powers and privileges that
>created it in the first place.[4]
>-
>
>Additionally, it is equally manifestly important to acknowledge the
>ways in which the concept of ‘ethnicity’ is used to create “meaningful” -
>including violently discriminatory - “distinctions” amongst people,
>including Islamophobia and anti-Semitism as two obvious examples. It is
>equally obvious that the concepts of ‘race’ and ‘ethnicity’ are not
>equivalent and/or interchangeable, and cannot be used so.
>-
>
>By including such a problematic statement, the UCoC contradicts the
>movement’s commitment to knowledge equity, clearly stated and approved as
>part of our Wikimedia Movement Strategy for 2030. The Universal Code of
>Conduct of a movement that doesn’t “see” race or ethnicity or acknowledge
>the historical and current effects of our racialized and ethnically-driven
>world, 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Sanctions against the Russian Federation; support for Ukrainian Wikimedians

2022-03-02 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I agree and I think that the best support is to offer a neutral and
complete information against any kind of propaganda.

This is what Wikimedia can do better.

Kind regards

On Tue, 1 Mar 2022, 23:21 Valentin Nefedov, 
wrote:

> Thanks for your support! The best "sanctions" WMF can implement is raising
> awareness about the whole situation. For example, the promotion of Ukraine's
> Cultural Diplomacy Month 2022
> .
> About Russian Wikipedia: unfortunately, most likely it will get banned in
> the Federation. More than 70 Russian Wikipedians wrote open letter to us
> on our village pump
> 
> where they condemned the invasion, so WMF might support people who signed
> this letter legally because of possible threats.
>
> Best regards,
> Renvoy
>
> вт, 1 бер. 2022 р. о 22:57 James Heilman  пише:
>
>> I wonder if a banner raising awareness regarding the existence of offline
>> apps specifically Kiwix for when communication goes down would be useful?
>>
>>
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kiwix.kiwixmobile=en_CA=US
>>
>> We also have Internet in a Box, with instruction on how to build your own
>> here
>>
>> https://mdwiki.org/wiki/WikiProjectMed:Internet-in-a-Box
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 2:37 PM GorillaWarfare <
>> gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 on the "what can we all do to help?" question. On the VPN topic, I
>>> suspect the functionary teams will be pretty open to granting IPBE for
>>> folks editing from that region.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IP_block_exemption#Used_for_anonymous_proxy_editing
>>> has details if anyone needs it.
>>>
>>> – Molly White (GorillaWarfare)
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GorillaWarfare
>>> she/her
>>> ___
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Heilman
>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Regional Committees for Grants

2021-05-23 Thread Ilario Valdelli
This is a good point.

In addition some affiliates don't receive money from WMF (even big
affiliates).

I think that the rationale should be clarified because applied as is it's
quite discriminatory.

I understand that there should be a turnover but for grants the experience
is the main value to assure the accountability.

This is an important parameter. Renouncing to expert volunteers in name of
their affiliation is something strange for volunteers.

WMF has a long history of demotivating longtime volunteers in the name of
"new blood" and this action is on the same bad attitude used in the past.

Experience and years of activity are values and should be valued.

Being served in the committee for longtime I have seen a good mix of expert
people and new people that assured different points of view. If this
solution worked well, as the grantmaking team said, I don't know why to
change.

Kind regards

On Sun, 23 May 2021, 01:58 Pharos,  wrote:

> I would like to echo Bodhisattwa's concern, and add that there is a great
> ambiguity here.
>
> What is the definition of "affiliate board member" being used here? A
> large number of affiliates are small and do not have a board, but are more
> informally organized.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
> (User:Pharos)
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:19 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am concerned about the exclusion of affiliate board members in the
>> regional committees. This decision would exclude a large portion of
>> experienced volunteers who are there in different user group decision
>> making committees. For global south countries, that would diminish the pool
>> of volunteers who are experienced and suitable for this kind of work.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bodhisattwa
>>
>> On Fri, May 21, 2021, 19:27 Risker  wrote:
>>
>>> I am very concerned that you think you're going to get about 80
>>> qualified and committed volunteers to do this work within the next few
>>> weeks.  This is unrealistic. I also agree with Florence's concerns.
>>>
>>> Risker/Anne
>>>
>>> On Fri, 21 May 2021 at 08:33, Florence Devouard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello Julia


 I apology if I missed a step at some point.
 In this application, I read that

 "All the current grant committees (both active and inactive) will cease
 to function with the implementation of the new grants strategy of the
 Community Resources Team effective from 1 July 2021. We strongly encourage
 current and former committee members to apply to be part of the regional
 committees."

 So... is it to understand that absolutely ALL grants provided by the
 Wikimedia Foundation will go through those yet uncreated committees ?

 Does that mean all current recipients of APG grants will have to
 address their annual request to those yet unknown teams in the future ?
 (september in some cases)

 To whom will grants requests have to be addressed to for those groups
 who are not related to a specific region ? Do they have to pick up a region
 of their choice and consider themselves attached to it, or will they be
 appointed a region by default ?

 Sorry if the questions seem to be unrelated to your call but...
 1) I am trying to understand and measure how much unstable our current
 situation is as grantees so that we can anticipate...
 2) I am trying to evaluate the responsibilities that will be on the
 shoulders of those new regional committee members


 Best


 Florence


 Le 21/05/2021 à 08:06, Julia Brungs a écrit :

 Dear all,

 We hope this email finds you well and safe. The COVID 19 situation
 continues to affect many of us across the globe and our thoughts are with
 everyone affected. We are also aware that there are several processes
 currently in progress that demand volunteer time and we do not want to add
 more work to anyone's plate.

 We do want to draw your attention to our new Regional Committees for
 Grants though as they are an opportunity for you to have an active say in
 the future of our Movement!

  So today, we invite you to join our new Regional Committees for
 Grants! 

 We encourage Wikimedians and Free Knowledge advocates to be part of the
 new Regional Committees that the WMF Community Resources team is setting up
 as part of the grants strategy relaunch [1]. You will be a key strategic
 thought partner to help understand the complexities of any region, provide
 knowledge and expertise to applicants, to support successful movement
 activities, and make funding decisions for grant applications in the 
 region.

 Find out more on meta [2].

 Regional Committees will be established for the following regions:

- Middle East and Africa
- SAARC [3] region (Includes Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan,
India, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

2021-02-23 Thread Ilario Valdelli
First point for security.

What should be secure is the software AND the entity using it.

In case there is a third entity managing the data, there is an additional
level of insecurity to take care.

When people "donate" you your data, they don't take care what is the
software behind but who manages the data, where these data are stored,
until when these data are kept, with whom these data are shared.

As you can see who, when and what refer to people not to software.

If the processes and the people are secure, as it seems to be, the software
is a marginal risk.

Kind regards

On Tue, 23 Feb 2021, 09:53 Fæ,  wrote:

> Could someone provide a link to the discussed security review of
> LimeSurvey? I've been unable to find it.
>
> Considering that the currently open UCoC survey using Google Forms has
> quoted WMF terms and conditions, which imply a special agreement with
> Google, was there a security review for this solution including the
> asserted legal requirement on Google to ask permission from WMF Legal
> before releasing data to authorities in the USA, such as the FBI or
> NSA? It's not clear to me that Google would do this for anyone else.
>
> It would be helpful for all organizations that plan to do surveys on
> the Wikimedia community of volunteers, if the WMF could release a list
> of security assessments done for all survey tools they have used in
> the past, especially if this is now going to be asked of WMF
> Affiliates who will no doubt wish to save donor's money by not
> repeating the security assessments already published.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 02:51, K. Peachey  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 23 Feb 2021, 7:18 am Valerio Bozzolan via Wikimedia-l, <
> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >> Apologies for my TL;DR
> >>
> >> Interesting topic. I'm recently working on making ethical surveys more
> and more widespread, starting from here:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Italia/LimeSurvey
> >>Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> >> Every hand is welcome.
> >>
> >> Warm wishes!
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> [[User:Valerio Bozzan]]
> >
> >
> > Did WMIT do any sort of security review before deploying lime?
> >
> > Security issues were found the previous two times wmf looked at from my
> understanding and that was without doing a full security review process
> >
> > Have any sort of privacy impact assessment (PIA) since surveys could
> potentially collect personally identifiable data (PIDs)
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Surveys using third party tools on Wikimedia projects

2021-02-15 Thread Ilario valdelli
Instead of insisting to use a tool or another, I think that the main 
point should be the security.


What happens to all these data, who takes care of them, who will read 
them, where they will be published.


Third party or not the recurrent topic of free software is always badly 
managed because we consider that the open software is automatically secure.


Honestly I would suggest you to switch your mind and to stress the point 
of the security instead.


In Europe there is a strong stress of this issues with the GDPR exactly 
to vehiculate the message that what is free may not free at all.


Personally I would prefer someone saying to use another solution because 
the personal date are safer and not to use another tool only because is 
not of a third party.


Kind regards

On 13/02/2021 16:40, Fæ wrote:

As a consequence of the promotion of a Google forms based survey this
week by a WMF representative, a proposal on Wikimedia Commons has been
started to ban the promotion of surveys which rely on third party
sites like Google Forms.[1]

Launched today, but already it appears likely that this proposal will
have a consensus to support. Considering that Commons is one of our
largest Wikimedia projects, there are potential repercussions of
banning the on-wiki promotion of surveys which use Google products or
other closed source third party products like SurveyMonkey.

Feedback is most welcome on the proposal discussion, or on this list
for handling impact, solutions, recommended alternatives that already
exist, or the future role of the WMF to support research and surveys
for the WMF and affiliates by using forking open source software and
self-hosting and self-managing data "locally".

Links
1. 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Proposals#Use_of_off-wiki_surveys_using_third-party_tools

Thanks
Fae


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] please NOT to Telegram as first or only communication channel (WAS: Wikimedia 2030: Mark your calendars! We are meeting on Nov. 21-22)

2020-10-23 Thread Ilario valdelli

On 23/10/2020 11:43, Željko Blaće wrote:

On 10/22/20, Kaarel Vaidla  wrote:

How to participate

...

* Join our Telegram group [2].

It would be amazing if we could embody the values of movement strategy
whenever we can. Using only Telegram group as recommendation is NOT*.

Thank you for that, anyways there is also to consider the freedom of 
choice that, beside everything, is a freedom.


Anyways some communities experimented the possibility to integrate open 
source chat (i.e, an IRC channel) and a Telegram channel to have 
messages on both sides.


In this case the freedom of choice is kept "free" and there is no 
obstacles to use one or another solution because at the end the goal is 
the participation.


Kind regards

--

Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Sexual harassment

2020-08-23 Thread Ilario valdelli

Do other kinds of harassment have a different procedure or are tollerated?

On 23/08/2020 22:43, Chris Sherlock wrote:

Hello all,

I have been advised by the WMF that if anyone is concerned about being sexually 
harassed they must report this to AN/I and there are no private mechanisms to 
report this sort of thing.

Is this for real?

Chris Sherlock

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: The recommendations are now online

2020-05-12 Thread Ilario valdelli

Thank you Nicole

for all that great job!

On 12/05/2020 12:29, Nicole Ebber wrote:

Thanks, Anders and Anton, for your uplifting feedback.

We'll update the overview section right away.

We have documented the changes in this change log, I hope this is helpful:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Reports/Finalization_Change_Log_(January_-_April_2020)

Best wishes,
Nicole




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: The recommendations are now online

2020-05-12 Thread Ilario valdelli

Thank you

it was a big challenge and sometimes a lot of complicated issues but 
thank you to have given this good direction.


Kind regards

On 12/05/2020 10:40, Katherine Maher wrote:

*=== Thank you ===*
I want to extend my deep gratitude to every single person who has helped
create these recommendations. True to the Wikimedia way, it is through the
contributions of many that we have reached this milestone.

Working group members dedicated more than a year to engaging with movement
stakeholders and developing the draft recommendations. On-wiki contributors
took part in community conversations to share their thoughts on the content
and help improve it. Affiliates and community organizers held dedicated
events to discuss strategy and provided valuable advice throughout the
process. Wikimedia Foundation staff and Board of Trustees supported and
guided the process from the beginning. The writing team and the reviewers
[9] worked tirelessly to revise and finalize the recommendations. Community
and affiliate strategy liaisons facilitated countless discussions. Thank
you all.



--
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-04-11 Thread Ilario valdelli

More complicated.

The process has been managed as a "pure" marketing and communication 
process while it concerns more community management.


I don't see here (honestly) any community management.

Knd regards

On 11/04/2020 12:27, Gnangarra wrote:

Since the process has decided its not hearing that the community doesnt
want the change why continue to pretend the communities input or interest
in the project is even wanted.

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 17:25, John Erling Blad  wrote:


This is a reply Shamir, but it is more a reply to the process and Wikimedia
Foundation.

Reading [1] my immediate thought is that whoever wrote it is more focused
on reputing the core finding than respecting the outcome. It is a reaction
to the statement “We do not know what the Wikimedia Foundation’s new name
would be, only that it would utilize Wikipedia not Wikimedia.” and 91% says
“no”. Still the process continues as nothing has happen. When 91% opposes a
change in volunteer organization you stop and listen, this is an
earthquake.

I opposed the name change, even if I don't really agree with the RFC, but
what happen later I find perhaps more troublesome. This shows a real lack
of understanding of why people objected to the idea. People have said no to
this several times now, and the process continues like nothing has happen.
Someone must clarify what this is, and who is behind it, and why, because
as it is now the chance of onboarding the communities are virtually zero.

As it is now I would say call it a failure, and make a full halt.

[1]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/RfC_Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia

John Erling Blad
/jeblad

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:49 AM Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharb...@wikimedia.org>
wrote:






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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Memorandum of Understanding with NDLI, CIS and WMF

2020-03-14 Thread Ilario valdelli

Thank you for that,

I have checked some languages but it seems that this digital library 
have books of some languages completely taken from Project Gutenberg 
(http://www.gutenberg.org) or from World Ebook Library 
(http://www.worldebooklibrary.org/) and they have their own licenses.


It's not clear what is the library for whom the NDLI owns the copyrights 
and they can donate.


Kind regards

On 14/03/2020 09:38, Bodhisattwa Mandal wrote:

Through this understanding, we will work together on:

- integrating Wikisource and Wikidata contents on NDLI website.
<https://ndl.iitkgp.ac.in/>
- building up technical infrastructure on NDLI website to crowdsource
metadata curation on Wikidata and proofreading on Wikisource websites.
- importing relevant contents and data from NDLI website to Wikidata and
Wikisource.
- identifying and pursuing collaboration opportunities around other
Wikimedia projects, such as Wikibooks.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Recommendations released, join the conversation

2020-01-21 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi all
I agree on that point.

I suggest to the community to organize themselves to give a feedback and to
contribute to have better and widely supported reccomandations but this
process must progress.

Everything can be improved and can be better but what is important is to
keep this goal of improvement.

Kind regards

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020, 14:51 Philip Kopetzky, 
wrote:

> I'm not sure why you want to vote on something that you will have to adapt
> to your community needs and implement accordingly, Ziko. What exactly is
> contentious about them that needs a vote, especially when the
> implementation will hopefully lead to more decentralised structures? Or do
> you think it could get worse? ;-)
>
> On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 12:57, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>
> > Hello Anders,
> >
> > Could you please explain which of the mails in this thread are
> problematic
> > in your opinion? I think that I made a factual statement in the most
> > neutral way.
> >
> > Anders, your opinion is that the recommendations are „wonderful“. I want
> to
> > tolerate your opinion. But do you also tolerate other opinions? Or do you
> > think that opponents need a better „attitude“?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> > Anders Wennersten  schrieb am Di. 21. Jan.
> 2020
> > um 12:14:
> >
> > > Sometimes I wonder if we really belong to the same movement or even
> live
> > > on the same planet.
> > >
> > > A wonderful work has been done with the recomendations, and the end
> > > result looks very fine, with only a few minor comments needed as far as
> > > I can see.
> > >
> > >   And I believe whatever we think of the endresult we should commend
> the
> > > people who have participated, both their commitment and quality of
> work.
> > >
> > > As a 8 hours-a- day contributor to a project, I know, as all my
> > > colleagues, the importance to have a positive tone in our
> > > communityinternal conversation and always be strong in good faith. And
> I
> > > meet that positive tone in my activities in the community and when I
> > > meet volunteers and  functionaries IRL. But in this list i find
> > > appalling negative entries as i find to  be in direct opposition to our
> > > movement values.
> > >
> > > So please, please use a better tone and attitude in this discussion of
> > > the recommendations
> > >
> > > Andersw
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Den 2020-01-21 kl. 11:49, skrev Fæ:
> > > > Ziko, we can vote on whatever we want, whenever we want.
> > > >
> > > > Us having a RFC on meta does not need the WMF to approve it or like
> it.
> > > An
> > > > openly run RFC could itself recommend a board resolution asking the
> > > > community appointed board members (you know, the legitimate ones that
> > are
> > > > accountable to us) to reject or amend the 'recommendations' as the
> > > > community sees fit. The WMF board and their CEO know it is in their
> > > > interest to take on any firm community consensus rather than playing
> > > > political games to get around it.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest folks take some time out to re-review the recommendations
> and
> > > > wait for the dust to settle before deciding if we want to start a
> > > correctly
> > > > community-led process for voting on it.
> > > >
> > > > As others have expressed, I am not in the least bit inclined to give
> > any
> > > > feedback on meta. It's a waste of volunteer time, as effective as
> > > shouting
> > > > out of your office window expecting to make the weather change.
> > > >
> > > > Fae
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 09:54, Ziko van Dijk 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hello,
> > > >>
> > > >> We now have the confirmation on a Meta Wiki talk page: the WMF is
> not
> > > going
> > > >> to let the communities vote on the recommendations.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations#Community_consensus
> > > >>
> > > >> Kind regards
> > > >> Ziko
> > > >>
> > > >> Am Di., 21. Jan. 2020 um 09:39 Uhr schrieb Yaroslav Blanter <
> > > >> ymb...@gmail.com>:
> > > >>
> > > >>> We will be again talking to the wall. (Would be, I am not going to
> > > react
> > > >>> this time).
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Best
> > > >>> Yaroslav
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 5:06 AM Todd Allen 
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > >  Katherine,
> > > 
> > >  These are very disappointing. It does not seem like a bit of the
> > > >> feedback
> > >  on earlier versions was taken into consideration at all. Can we
> > expect
> > >  anything we say to matter this time around, or will we once again
> be
> > >  talking to the wall?
> > > 
> > >  Todd
> > > 
> > >  On Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 8:24 PM Katherine Maher <
> kma...@wikimedia.org
> > >
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Dear all,
> > > >
> > > > I wanted to share some news with you: the first version of the
> > > >> movement
> > > > strategy recommendations document has been published on Meta [1].
> > On
> > >  

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community survey: Wikimedia Diversity Conference 2020

2020-01-20 Thread Ilario Valdelli
That can be an output of the conference. Is not it?

On Mon, 20 Jan 2020, 13:57 Gerard Meijssen, 
wrote:

> Hoi,
> How do you define diversity?
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
> On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 at 13:44, Jon Harald Søby  wrote:
>
> > Hi all, and apologies if you receive this email several times – I will be
> > posting it to multiple mailing lists.
> >
> > Wikimedia Norge would like to organize a regional Wikimedia Diversity
> > Conference in 2020 for Europe, with the hope of many other regional
> > conferences on the same topic being held in the near future. The
> Wikimedia
> > Diversity Conference 2020 will provide a meeting place for discussing,
> > debating and generating recipes for change concerning diversity in the
> > Wikimedia movement.
> >
> > We will be sharing more updates regarding a possible conference later in
> > 2020. For now, we are working on drafting a grant proposal to the
> Wikimedia
> > Foundation to support the conference. As part of the drafting the
> proposal,
> > a Community Engagement Survey is crucial to understand what community
> > members are expecting out of such conference. In that regard, Wikimedia
> > Norge invite all those who are interested in the topic of diversity to
> take
> > part in the survey.
> >
> > Please take the survey here
> > <
> >
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdEaXc2AIaaFgKiQUWCDdnJKLd26KA8_DDQsyAqemXsH-wRyw/viewform
> > >
> > or copy and paste the URL below into your internet browser:
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdEaXc2AIaaFgKiQUWCDdnJKLd26KA8_DDQsyAqemXsH-wRyw/viewform
> >
> > *Participants*
> > For a Wikimedia Diversity Conference 2020 we would like to invite
> > participants who are decision-makers in the movement (volunteers, board
> or
> > staff members of a Wikimedia affiliate) or highly engaged in projects
> about
> > knowledge equity and diversity. The conference will be an opportunity for
> > the participants to discuss solutions for implementation of the 2030
> > movement strategy
> >  on
> > knowledge equity.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > *Jon Harald Søby*
> > Prosjektleder / Prosjektleiar / Prošeaktajođiheaddji / Project Manager
> > Wikimedia Norge / Wikimedia Noreg / Wikimedia Norga
> >
> > +47 977 67 510
> > jhs...@wikimedia.no
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2020 will be on August 5-9. Bangkok, Thailand.

2019-10-08 Thread Ilario valdelli

This question makes sense.

Probably people going in Japan and having a stop in Bangkok may generate 
as consequence a higher flight ticket's cost.


Kind regards

On 08/10/2019 19:53, Kiril Simeonovski wrote:

Dear Roman,

Thank you for announcing the dates of Wikimania 2020 and suggesting a trip
to other East Asian countries, including Japan for the Olympics, but was it
inevitable to schedule the event during the Olympics?

Best regards,
Kiril

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 18:54 Roman Bustria Jr.  wrote:


Dear Wikimedians,

I am delighted to announce that Wikimania 2020 will happen from 5-9 August,
2020 in Bangkok, Thailand.

We will announce other details in the upcoming weeks.

For now, you may start planning your Asian tour iterinary. You may consider
doing a side trip in other ESEAP countries like Myanmar, Cambodia, Japan
(Olympic Games), Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Timor Leste, Taiwan,
Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, China, Vietnam, and many others.




Kind regards,

Butch Bustria
Wikimedia ESEAP
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Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
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Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
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Wikipedia: Ilario
Skype: valdelli
Tel: +41764821371
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

2019-09-23 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I don't know but if the option is to pay 500 long travels for scholarships
by flight to attend a single event or to pay 500 travels for the staff of
WMF to attend several regional conferences,  the answer will be in favor of
the second option which is more sustainable and more efficient.

I have seen more interest for regional events where people can speak their
mother tongue and are lesser impactful for the environment than for big
events.

After i can say that in Wikimania we dont see really the Wikipedia
communities. We see the peak of the iceberg and this peak is not necessarly
representative.

Kind regards

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:57 Rebecca O'Neill,  wrote:

> Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events is
> not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow Wikimedians
> face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may
> never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is value
> in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space for
> both.
>
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:
>
> > Yes
> >
> > We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon
> we
> > receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
> >
> > It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train
> and
> > not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when
> we
> > ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen,  wrote:
> >
> > > I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small
> > > presentation).
> > >
> > > I think that you need to clarify you statement:
> > > "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
> people
> > > would not do long trips."
> > >
> > > When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read:
> > > "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover
> > > transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and
> > > registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult
> conditions
> > of
> > > eligibility on this page
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships>."
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > Gabe
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Anyways this is perceived by the community.
> > > >
> > > > In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
> > people
> > > > would not do long trips.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO the problem is these big events.
> > > >
> > > > For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
> > wikicon
> > > > than to Wikimania.
> > > >
> > > > This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein,  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
> > > wikigamal...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not
> > using
> > > > > > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
> > > billionth
> > > > > > time.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I laughed out loud.
> > > > >
> > > > > AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some
> practical
> > > > > thoughts.
> > > > >
> > > > > a) Reach out to Stripe
> > > > > <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>, which
> > has
> > > a
> > > > > through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the
> > Long
> > > > Now,
> > > > > to coordinate efforts.
> > > > > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated
> > by
> > > > >   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
> > > > >   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and
> > > > > prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> > > > > ___
>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

2019-09-23 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Yes

We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon we
receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.

It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train and
not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when we
ask the reason the answer is the climate change.

Kind regards

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen,  wrote:

> I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small
> presentation).
>
> I think that you need to clarify you statement:
> "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
> would not do long trips."
>
> When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read:
> "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover
> transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and
> registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult conditions of
> eligibility on this page
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships>."
>
> Best regards
> Gabe
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli 
> wrote:
>
> > Anyways this is perceived by the community.
> >
> > In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
> > would not do long trips.
> >
> > IMHO the problem is these big events.
> >
> > For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon
> > than to Wikimania.
> >
> > This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein,  wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
> wikigamal...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using
> > > > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
> billionth
> > > > time.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I laughed out loud.
> > >
> > > AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical
> > > thoughts.
> > >
> > > a) Reach out to Stripe
> > > <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>, which has
> a
> > > through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the Long
> > Now,
> > > to coordinate efforts.
> > > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated by
> > >   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
> > >   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and
> > > prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

2019-09-23 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Anyways this is perceived by the community.

In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
would not do long trips.

IMHO the problem is these big events.

For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon
than to Wikimania.

This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.

Kind regards

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein,  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez 
> wrote:
>
> > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using
> > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a billionth
> > time.
> >
>
> I laughed out loud.
>
> AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical
> thoughts.
>
> a) Reach out to Stripe
> , which has a
> through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the Long Now,
> to coordinate efforts.
> b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated by
>   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
>   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and
> prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-25 Thread Ilario valdelli

Hi Dariusz

in recent years WMF has emphasized the concepts of diversity and equity 
that are excellent and desirable but should not forget that Wikipedia 
today is what it is thanks to a community that for over 18 years has 
supported these projects and that cannot be forgotten from today to 
tomorrow.


Many recommendations forget this point and forget that Wikimedia 
projects stand on their feet thanks to this experienced group.


Participating in wikimedia projects is done on a voluntary basis, there 
are many excellent projects to work with that are out of the wikiverse.


Giving to these volunteers the feeling of not being accepted because 
they are male, western, middle-aged and with a good economic position 
will only speed up this process.


Kind regards

On 24/08/2019 23:40, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote:

Well, "the intention of building an encyclopedia based on a neutral point of view 
achieved by verifiable information attributed to reliable independent sources and 
disseminated under a free licence" is close to many of us (me including). I think it 
is quite unlikely that recommendations challenging every single part of that intent, in 
the understanding of the majority of our community, will go through.

It is my honest belief that the WMF Board of Trustees does not intend to 
radically reduce the number of volunteers involved.

In any case, I suggest we wait and see how the recommendations shape up anyhow.

best,

dj

On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 5:22 PM Jeff Hawke 
mailto:geoffey.ha...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dariusz

It seems very likely that the majority of the 60,000 contributors you mention 
are there with the intention of building an encyclopaedia based on a neutral 
point of view achieved by verifiable information attributed to reliable 
independent sources and disseminated under a free licence.  Since there are 
recommendations that would challenge every single part of that intent, it seems 
reasonable to assume that some non-trivial proportion of the volunteer 
workforce will not wish to continue to participate in a project that has so 
dramatically changed its entire raison d'etre.

Jeff



--

[http://crow.kozminski.edu.pl/minds.jpg]<http://nerds.kozminski.edu.pl/>
prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
kierownik katedry MINDS (Management in Networked and Digital Societies)
Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
http://NeRDS.kozminski.edu.pl <http://nerds.kozminski.edu.pl/>



Ostatnie artykuły:

   *   Dariusz Jemielniak, Maciej Wilamowski (2017)  Cultural Diversity of Quality of 
Information on 
Wikipedias<http://crow.kozminski.edu.pl/papers/cultures%20of%20wikipedias.pdf> 
Journal of the Association for Information Science and Technology 68:  10.  2460–2470.
   *   Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Wikimedia Movement Governance: The Limits of 
A-Hierarchical 
Organization<http://www.crow.kozminski.edu.pl/papers/wikimedia_governance.pdf> 
Journal of Organizational Change Management 29:  3.  361-378.
   *   Dariusz Jemielniak, Eduard Aibar (2016)  Bridging the Gap Between Wikipedia 
and Academia<http://www.crow.kozminski.edu.pl/papers/bridging.pdf> Journal of 
the Association for Information Science and Technology 67:  7.  1773-1776.
   *   Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Breaking the Glass Ceiling on 
Wikipedia<http://www.crow.kozminski.edu.pl/papers/glass-ceiling.pdf> Feminist 
Review 113:  1.  103-108.
   *   Tadeusz Chełkowski, Peter Gloor, Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Inequalities in 
Open Source Software Development: Analysis of Contributor’s Commits in Apache 
Software Foundation 
Projects<http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/asset?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0152976.PDF>,
 PLoS ONE 11:  4.  e0152976.
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Wikimedia CH
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Wikipedia: Ilario
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Tel: +41764821371
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-25 Thread Ilario valdelli

You are right and this is what it should be.

Anyways we must consider that the selection of the working groups 
followed more the parameters to select the "representatives" of 
Wikimedia than the "representatives" of Wikipedia's communities.


Basically the experience in Wikimedia projects has been quite neglected.

I have a personal feeling that the diversity has been stressed a lot but 
neglecting some parameters which are valued by the community and for 
this reason the community doesn't feel represented by these members of 
the working groups.


The comunity is perceiving these recommendations more likely a vision 
lowered from above.


On 24/08/2019 11:44, Aron Manning wrote:

On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 at 11:18, Benjamin Ikuta 
wrote:


It's obvious that you, for one, stand with the community.


Benjamin, this is not a clash between two opposing forces, albeit some
combative elements try to "divide and conquer", and turn the community into
two opposing camps.
The recommendations are about the path we choose for the future, and the
conversations are your chance to contribute to that vision.

Aron
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-25 Thread Ilario valdelli

Hi Bence,

I think that this recommendation is ambigous. There is a specific sentence:

"We need to pay or otherwise compensate people to participate"

which can be opened to any interpretation.

I think that this recommendation is quite complicated to be accepted by 
the community because it associates the diversity to the privileges and 
would justify the paid activities on this basis. Wikimedia projects and 
Wikimedia structure has been based always on volunteering time, as soon 
it will be open to paid activities, the sense of participation will be 
distorted.


Basically, if we would explain to the man of street, why the community 
should continue to contribute on volunteering basis if some activities 
are paid? The reason that there are unprivileged members is weak in my 
opinion.


This is a distortion itself.

On 25/08/2019 12:09, Bence Damokos wrote:

The recommendation you link to was about ensuring diversity on decision
making committees, and has this part “We are currently not sure about ‘paid
editing’, and leaning towards not supporting that. ”.

I think it would help the discussion if we did not distort the content of
the recommendations, especially as there may be people who read and engage
with this list who have not had time to study the recommendations (or
indeed the Fram saga cited a number of times earlier).


Best regards,
Bence

Todd Allen  (időpont: 2019. aug. 25., V, 11:44) ezt
írta:


Well then, why aren't you listening?

We've been begging WMF for years to come up with a solution for paid
editing. If you actually put something in the ToU against it, we can get
paid edit requests removed  from sites like Upwork, since they will not
allow requests that violate another site's terms of service. But we've been
completely unable to get WMF to do something unequivocal like that, so we
get left to deal with the spam and crapvertising. Wikipedia admins get to
deal with the fallout.

In the meantime, we get a WMF "working group" wanting to not only allow
paid editing, but have WMF do the paying. That is the direct, exact
opposite of what we've been asking for! No paid editing, and certainly no
paid editing from WMF!


https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Resource_Allocation/Recommendations/C

Why on Earth are we getting this garbage from WMF "working groups"? Do they
know nothing at all about how the projects work, or do they not care and
are trying to override them?

On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 4:07 PM Dariusz Jemielniak 
wrote:



On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 6:00 PM Todd Allen  wrote:


Then, why'd we hear something so dismissive as this?


My intent was not dismissive, but factual (I basically made a point that

a

majority of our communities is not interested in administration,
organization, structures, etc., so as to address an estimation error in

the

discussion).

5-10 thousand people are still a large and definitely worth listening to
group.

best,

dj


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-18 Thread Ilario valdelli

Hi Nicole,

I suggest also to harmonize a little bit the reccomandations of the 
working groups too.


I had a quick reading and I found several conflictual points among the 
different working groups.


An example is the technology working group where the first 
reccomandation is about a decentralization and I suppose about a 
"strong" decentralization where everyone can contribute to the vision, 
while the Resource Allocation reports the concept of hubs in several 
points of their reccomandations.


In this case to decentralize from one point to another point a 
competence doesn't mean "decentralization" but it's "delocalization". 
Basically it remains a central point of competence delocated 
geographically but basically a central point (so the opposite of 
decentralization).


This is an example but there are several ones and the time is short to 
comment.


Kind regards


On 09/08/2019 20:36, Nicole Ebber wrote:


Over the next month, working groups will take the input they receive
into the recommendations, alongside external advice and research, and
use it to refine and finalize them. Share your views, and help shape
what Wikimedia will look like in 2030 and beyond.

If you have any questions or feedback, please feel free to get in touch.

Best wishes,

Nicole

[1] 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
[2] 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
[3] https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Wikimedia_2030
[4] 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Strategy_Salons
[5] 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/People/Community_Strategy_Liaisons



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Ilario Valdelli
ing_lists/Guidelines and
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-- 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Ilario Valdelli
 here.
>
>
>
> In the world, people have been discriminated for their religion, political
> beliefs, the colour of their skin, because of their gender, because of a
> different gender identity, how they look like, ..., or just because they
> are considered to be "weird" when people do not understand the other. I
> would prefer that we do not copy that and instead organise a civilised
> complaint handling that works independently.
>
>
>
> Many of you gave me a welcome feeling, independent from who/how I am. Thank
> you!
>
> As I likely will not meet you again, the one thing that rests me to say is:
> thank you for collaborating, talking and sharing your thoughts, I wish you
> all the best!
>
>
> Romaine
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Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] How diverse are your readers?

2019-03-11 Thread Ilario valdelli

Hi Leila,

I have put my own but the problem we have in Switzerland is connected to 
the multi-lingualism.


Italian, for instance, which is one big language in WIkipedia, is at the 
opposite a minority in Switzerland.


Any study is interesting, but if it could be country-based, it would be 
better.


Kind regards


On 06/03/2019 22:12, Leila Zia wrote:

Hi all,

As I mentioned in an earlier thread [1], we will be running reader
surveys across a number of Wikipedia languages to learn about the
reader needs and motivations in these languages as well as some of
their demographic information (and perhaps the correlations between
demographics and user motivations and characteristics).

If your language community is interested to have statistics on the
distribution of reader gender, age, education, native language, and
geographic region (rural/urban) in your language (and depending on how
much data we collect in your language, perhaps more insights), this is
your chance to indicate interest at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research_talk:Characterizing_Wikipedia_Reader_Behaviour/Demographics_and_Wikipedia_use_cases#Interested_languages

I initially communicated 2019-02-15 as the deadline to sign up. Since
then, we have run a pilot test on enwiki and we are investigating some
of the results to see if any changes in the survey questions are
needed. You have now time until 2019-03-15 to indicate interest.

As always: this call is primarily a service to your language
community. If you like it, take action on it. If you don't, no action
is needed. :)

Best,
Leila

[1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-February/091762.html

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Croatian Wikipedia: persisting far-right bias?

2018-11-26 Thread Ilario Valdelli
History does not require a judge. It's the storiography to be judge.

Here the problem is to give relevance to some sources and to neglect
(completely) others.

If a single not neutral source is considered as the Holy Bible, the same
pillars of Wikipedia are infringed.

Kind regards

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, 14:06 Dennis During  Who is the judge? Are we going to join Facebook, Google, Twitter, et al as
> the new press barons?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Croatian Wikipedia: persisting far-right bias?

2018-11-26 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I think that this case is so complicated that the admin or the steward
sometimes are not prepared to face a big problem like this.

They evaluate two opinions without having a background to define what is
true and what is not. In this case the evaluation can be not neutral.

Anyways the bias us present in all several Wikipedias and not only in
Croatian mainly if it concerns the history of the area around Croatia.

It's a pity that still now, after long time, someone us reporting the same
problem. I would know personally what is the problem.

Kind regards

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, 12:38 stjn  This mailing list is usually positive, but we need to talk about
> something rotten. I was linked to this Meta RfC by my Russian colleague:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Administrator_abuse_on_the_Croatian_Wikipedia
>
> The author and commentators, with notable evidence, allege that admins
> and editors on Croatian Wikipedia are biased in favour of far-right
> denialist talking points, especially in regards to World War II, and use
> their rights to continue this type of deal. From my further readings,
> the problems in Croatian Wikipedia exist for a long time with the same
> participating actors. This RfC exists for 2 years already without any
> signs of notice from the WMF or Meta stewards, all while nothing is
> changing and the local press is continuing to report about this (maybe
> authors should get American coverage to get any support, though). What
> exactly is the course of action on this and what has already been done
> in regards to this by Meta stewards or WMF?
>
> Editors have tried to sound their alarms via different means:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=857974834#2013_controversy_about_right-wing_bias
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_231#On_the_state_of_Croatian_Wikipedia
>
> Support of extremist viewpoints should be the most pressing issue for
> Wikimedians, as we must recognise that our articles have consequences,
> and unabashed defence of Nazis in Wikipedia in one of the official
> languages of the EU is a big deal. I personally had to organise with
> others before to remove genuine jihadist view points from being reported
> as facts in one of Wikipedias (successfully), in the last year I also
> had to report to one steward that admin in one Wikipedia was deleting
> all (seemingly not bad) content in regards to LGBT without any
> explanation (unsuccessfully).
>
> Every time significant institutional bias towards non-neutral and
> harmful view points goes unnoticed, we poison our readers, especially
> students, and discourage other people from constructive contribution in
> our projects. Perhaps, on the larger point, it is good to talk about
> some kind of committee akin to CoCC that would safely enforce the
> founding principles of our projects, if these issues go unnoticed so much.
>
> I hope that something will be done with this eventually.
>
> Oleg
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Plea from Wikimedia Portugal

2018-10-11 Thread Ilario Valdelli
The best mistake you do is to consider the wikimedia chapter as a
representative of the Wikipedia community while this statement is basically
wrong.

When you say that Vasconcelos had no Wikipedia editing experience and
continue to support your position using this motivation, you probably have
no clear meaning of what is a chapter.

I have no position about the wikimedia Portugal conflict but i would stress
this point.

I Think that there is a clear and well known position inside the wikimedia
movement that any chapter is not responsible of the content of Wikimedia
projects.

A board should have an heterogeneous composition. If a wikipedia editing
Experience is welcome, that's is not sufficient. Having someone with
conflict management Experience in the board would be important and In some
cases more important than Wikipedia' s editing In this case I dont
understand why you did not invite to Vasconcelos to stay.

Kind regards

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018, 14:48 Alchimista,  wrote:

> As a wikimedia Portugal board member I totally agree with Gonçalo's
> statement. Despite what I believe where AffCom best efforts, they clearly
> didn't knew how to properly deal with this situation. They took official
> positions without hearing us, they've imposed a roadmap that we had to
> accomplish in order to lift the suspension, and now that we've accomplished
> it, some unexplained accusations came out of the blue. I feel that AffCom
> put us chasing ghosts during the last months and that all we've done so far
> was in vain, and more importantly, is making us reach the limit of our
> capacities. This last message is a clear example of what shouldn’t be done:
> we’ve been working with special motivation knowing that we were doing all
> what was requested in order to get our suspension lifted, and then AffCom
> sends us that opaque accusation, without any previous attempt to get any
> confirmation or information.
>
> Wikimedia Portugal is currently in a sustainable path, despite all the
> entropy, we’ve been able to fulfill all legal obligations, AffCom roadmap,
> improve our governance and transparency and organize activities. We intend
> to keep this path, continuously improving our capacities, but AffCom is
> clearly making it more difficult.
>
> Best regards,
>
> André
>
> GoEthe.wiki  escreveu no dia terça, 9/10/2018 à(s)
> 11:12:
>
> > The original message was rejected due to a filter rule match, but you can
> > access it here:
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediapt/2018-October/002698.html
> > I am sending it below without the links. Please access the link above for
> > the full version.
> > __
> >
> > Sorry in advance for the lengthy email – the tl;dr version is: Wikimedia
> > Portugal has done all it was asked to do, so the suspension that was held
> > conditional to performing those steps must be lifted accordingly. For the
> > sake of transparency, we are sending this out to not only the AffCom
> > mailing list, but also Wikimedia-l and WikimediaPT-l.
> > _
> >
> > Dear members of AffCom,
> >
> > (cc to the Wikimedia Portugal mailing list, Wikimedia mailing list)
> >
> > Last 5th October we were again surprised by the content of your email
> > (quoted below) in response to us completing the roadmap we had agreed
> upon
> > in order to remove the suspension of Wikimedia Portugal. On that message,
> > you say you have once more received information whose substantiation is
> not
> > mentioned, from sources that are not disclosed. And still you seem to
> > accept it as the truth without even providing us with the opportunity to
> > get properly acquainted with it, let alone rebate or contradict it. While
> > you speak of transparency, that message is unsettlingly opaque, as have
> > been multiple such messages relayed to us in the course of this whole
> > process.
> >
> > As you are well aware, Wikimedia Portugal was faced in March with a
> > situation where the president of the Board, João Vasconcelos, became
> > demissionary without any previous warning [1]. It should be noted that
> when
> > Vasconcelos was elected as president of the Board back in 2015, he wasn’t
> > elected based on any background as a Wikimedia editor, as he has no
> history
> > of contribution to any of the Wikimedia projects, but rather on his self
> > proclaimed merits on organisational and conflict management (!). Despite
> > the best efforts of several people from Wikimedia Portugal over the
> years,
> > Vasconcelos sadly never really integrated well neither on Wikimedia
> > Portugal, nor in the Portuguese Wikimedia community.
> >
> > So, in light of what looked like an existential threat for WMPT, I and a
> > number of other WMPT members have publicly and transparently mobilized
> > ourselves to organize an extraordinary General Election to elect the new
> > Board. Vasconcelos was probably expecting/hoping that we would ask him to
> > stay. But we have seen this sort of behavior elsewhere [a].We didn't.
> > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] FY1718 Fundraising Report now published

2018-10-01 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Yes but India has probably 2 times the population of the whole Europe...
and cannot be defined like a "poor" country. I Think that the same is valid
also for East Asia.

No it's not simple to compare but the amount donated in Asia is really
small.

Kind regards


On Mon, 1 Oct 2018, 15:21 Joseph Seddon,  wrote:

> Correction:  Our readership in Macao, QATAR and Singapore; is a fraction of
> that of the United States. (specifically 1.4% of the USA: Percentage
> remails effectively unchanged).
>
> Seddon
>
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 2:17 PM Joseph Seddon 
> wrote:
>
> > Hey Illario.
> >
> > It is not as simple to simply that the contribution from Asia should be
> 10
> > times bigger.  It is not just about GDP.
> >
> > Our readership from the three countries in the top 10: Macao, Oman and
> > Singapore; is a fraction of that of the United States. (specifically 1.4%
> > of the USA).
> >
> > Do not get me wrong. Fundraising sees area for potential long term growth
> > in both Asia and South America but we must be realistic for what that
> > growth is.
> >
> > That's why I gave a long list of the factors that affect the potential
> for
> > fundraising in Asia, Africa and South America.  Its a complex equation
> >
> > Regards
> > Seddon
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 11:58 AM Ilario valdelli 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I agree in that point.
> >>
> >> Please be back to this millenium.
> >>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
> >> (updated to 2017).
> >>
> >> Three Asian countries are listed in the top 10.
> >>
> >> And the estimation is to have sooner a fourth:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_projected_GDP_(PPP)#IMF_estimates_between_2020_and_2023
> >>
> >> We can say that we have to look at the distribution of GDP, but also in
> >> this case three countries of the top 10 are Asian:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
> >>
> >> Honestly there should be from Asia a contribution 10 times bigger in the
> >> fundraising.
> >>
> >> I think that it's time to say that Asia is a continent that can give
> more.
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >>
> >> On 01/10/2018 12:28, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote:
> >> > I suppose Asia can do a lot better than 3 million, but I don't augur
> >> much
> >> > success with increasing those campaigns for Africa and South America,
> at
> >> > least using the current model.
> >> >
> >> > Looking by the sample I know in Brazil (last year fundraising
> campaign,
> >> in
> >> > August I believe) the Brazilian Portuguese Wikipedia readers often got
> >> > enraged to the point of vandalizing articles stating their disgust
> for a
> >> > campaign asking money to an impoverished country (even more saying 10$
> >> was
> >> > the cost of a coffee there). Others "donated" money or attempted to
> >> donate
> >> > it thinking it was a kind of a fee for being allowed to read Wikipédia
> >> > (kind of a subscription).
> >> >
> >> > Paulo
> >> >
> >> > Pine W  escreveu no dia domingo, 30/09/2018 à(s)
> >> 20:30:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Thea,
> >> >>
> >> >> Thank you for sharing this report.
> >> >>
> >> >> I very much like the visual design, which I think is simple, clear,
> and
> >> >> concise. Who did the design?
> >> >>
> >> >> Regarding the sentences, "We imagine a world in which every single
> >> human
> >> >> being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Each year, with
> >> your
> >> >> support, we edge closer toward that vision.": I suggest removing the
> >> second
> >> >> sentence because the horizons of human knowledge continue to expand
> at
> >> a
> >> >> significant rate, and I doubt that we have evidence that we're
> keeping
> >> up
> >> >> in every human language with the pace that human knowledge advances,
> >> let
> >> >> alone moving fast enough to catch up.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm a bit surprised by the relatively low revenue from regions other
> >>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] FY1718 Fundraising Report now published

2018-10-01 Thread Ilario valdelli

I agree in that point.

Please be back to this millenium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) 
(updated to 2017).


Three Asian countries are listed in the top 10.

And the estimation is to have sooner a fourth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_projected_GDP_(PPP)#IMF_estimates_between_2020_and_2023

We can say that we have to look at the distribution of GDP, but also in 
this case three countries of the top 10 are Asian:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

Honestly there should be from Asia a contribution 10 times bigger in the 
fundraising.


I think that it's time to say that Asia is a continent that can give more.

Kind regards


On 01/10/2018 12:28, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote:

I suppose Asia can do a lot better than 3 million, but I don't augur much
success with increasing those campaigns for Africa and South America, at
least using the current model.

Looking by the sample I know in Brazil (last year fundraising campaign, in
August I believe) the Brazilian Portuguese Wikipedia readers often got
enraged to the point of vandalizing articles stating their disgust for a
campaign asking money to an impoverished country (even more saying 10$ was
the cost of a coffee there). Others "donated" money or attempted to donate
it thinking it was a kind of a fee for being allowed to read Wikipédia
(kind of a subscription).

Paulo

Pine W  escreveu no dia domingo, 30/09/2018 à(s) 20:30:


Hi Thea,

Thank you for sharing this report.

I very much like the visual design, which I think is simple, clear, and
concise. Who did the design?

Regarding the sentences, "We imagine a world in which every single human
being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Each year, with your
support, we edge closer toward that vision.": I suggest removing the second
sentence because the horizons of human knowledge continue to expand at a
significant rate, and I doubt that we have evidence that we're keeping up
in every human language with the pace that human knowledge advances, let
alone moving fast enough to catch up.

I'm a bit surprised by the relatively low revenue from regions other than
North America and Europe. Those look like areas where Fundraising could be
more successful in the future. Does Fundraising have plans to work on
improving revenue from those regions?

Congratulations on the success with asking donors to cover transaction
fees.

Thanks again for sharing this report.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )


On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 10:16 PM Thea Skaff  wrote:


Hi everyone,

I am writing to share with you our fundraising report for fiscal year

2018

. This

report

is a collaborative effort on behalf of many teams: fundraising tech, ops
and donor services, major gifts, online fundraising, legal,

communications,

and more.

The fundraising report offers us an opportunity to pause and reflect on
learnings from last year and also consider where we're headed,

particularly

as we approach one of our busiest times of the year for fundraising. It's
also an inspiring reminder of how many people across the world support

the

work of the community and WMF staff.

We welcome your questions and feedback.

Thank you,
Thea



--
*Thea Skaff*
Fundraising Program Manager
Wikimedia Foundation
1 Montgomery Street, Suite 1600
San Francisco, CA 94104
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: First round of Working Group members

2018-07-26 Thread Ilario valdelli

This is true,

but it's true also that the discussion is now restricted to few members 
and groups.


I can personally say that the communities (and when I speak about 
communities I speak about people not being able to speak english or not 
following the international mailing list) are ignoring partially what is 
happening, after the initial involvement in the colletion of the inputs.


Surely the Wikipedia's communities are not obliged to adopt what is 
discussed in this strategy mainly because "Wikipedia has /no central 
editorial board/"[1] and secondly because Wikipedia has not firm rules 
(5th pillar)[2] but a larger involvement of different members from the 
communities would have helped more, at least to address to the biggest 
communities some inputs coming from the strategy which is under discussion.


I agree with Karel that "/With regards to Diversity, the parameters for 
the diversity considerations//are outlined here, and do include voices 
that are not yet included in//strategic discussions/" and I like this 
sentence, but unfortunately I see the same faces in any step of this 
strategy and if the diversity is something important because the 
diversity assures also a rich and etherogeneous difference of opinions, 
I think that this is not happening and don't see a "diversity of 
opinion" represented here.


An example is the steering committee that, in my opinion should have 
been excluded from the working groups to bring "new blood in this 
process" and not to limit the discussion always to the same people and 
to the same actors.


What Micru reports is an important point and I personally have his same 
feeling not as wikimedian, but as wikipedian and as volunteer.


Kind regards

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars


On 25/07/2018 11:32, Frans Grijzenhout wrote:

Hi All, I cannot support the idea that the movement strategy is designed
for functionaries only. We encouraged editors and volunteers to meet and
discuss the strategy locally and also gave them (financial) support so that
they were able to attend the international conferences and take their part
in the discussions.
Frans (chair WMNL)



*Frans Grijzenhout*, voorzitter / chair
+31 6 5333 9499




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

2018-04-09 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi Kirill
It makes sense to explain a little bit about the conflict management and
the position of both sides to define why both groups have been
derecognized.

At the opposite this decision will give the feeling that, to attack a local
Group, it will be sufficient to create another local Group and to be
recognized and to open a conflict and to drive all parties to unresolute it
to reach the primary and original goal.

Kind regards

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 20:20 Kirill Lokshin,  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
> organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
> group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
> mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
> affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements, which
> are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic organization,
> or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia User
> Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging in
> activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations or
> Wikimedia projects.
>
> As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
> Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education Brazil —
> have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has resulted
> in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
> activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict
> have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
> withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
>
> Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and
> Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and the
> Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
> terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as practicable.
> Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
> these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
> any user group application or existing user group for a period of one year.
>
> The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
> unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
> Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
> structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
> participants and stakeholders in the country.
>
> Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
> Affiliations Committee.
>
> Regards,
> Kirill Lokshin
> Chair, Affiliations Committee
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Only an audit can answer. To switch from rumors to facts, this is the 
most appropriate solution.


It seems that Wikimedia France had two audits (but it would be 
interesting to know if limited only to the financial aspects) and 
another by the FDC.


The General Assembly can have the power to claim for an audit too, 
defining the auditing entity.


Kind regards

On 04/08/2017 11:27, Leigh Thelmadatter wrote:

Assuming of course that a chapter actually follows its bylaws


From: Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of Ilario 
Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 1:34:34 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List; James Salsman
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

The power of WMF, defined in the agreement, is basically limited to
revoke the chapters agreement.

There is no mention in the Chapters agreement that WMF can take a
control of a chapter and to manage a General Assembly.

You forget that the legal pilaster of a chapter is the bylaws.

On 04/08/2017 10:02, James Salsman wrote:

Rogol,

What content protected by safe harbor provisions would the Foundation
be exerting editorial control over by requiring governance standards
of a Chapter?

Is there some French law that requires charities to be more
independent of their international affiliates than would be under such
a requirement?

The chapter agreements already contemplate this sort of control,
because they state, "The Chapter agrees ... to refrain from ...
engaging in any activity that might negatively impact the work or
image of the Wikimedia Foundation," and are revocable upon three
months notice.


On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com> wrote:

If the Foundation is seen to be directing the activities of a chapter at
the proposed level of micro-management then it would jeopardise the legal
status both of the Foundation (in terms of their safe harbour status) and
of the chapter (as an independent and charitable body).  The Foundation is
free to fund or not fund, to recognise or derecognise.  But not to control.
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--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Ilario Valdelli
The power of WMF, defined in the agreement, is basically limited to 
revoke the chapters agreement.


There is no mention in the Chapters agreement that WMF can take a 
control of a chapter and to manage a General Assembly.


You forget that the legal pilaster of a chapter is the bylaws.

On 04/08/2017 10:02, James Salsman wrote:

Rogol,

What content protected by safe harbor provisions would the Foundation
be exerting editorial control over by requiring governance standards
of a Chapter?

Is there some French law that requires charities to be more
independent of their international affiliates than would be under such
a requirement?

The chapter agreements already contemplate this sort of control,
because they state, "The Chapter agrees ... to refrain from ...
engaging in any activity that might negatively impact the work or
image of the Wikimedia Foundation," and are revocable upon three
months notice.


On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com> wrote:

If the Foundation is seen to be directing the activities of a chapter at
the proposed level of micro-management then it would jeopardise the legal
status both of the Foundation (in terms of their safe harbour status) and
of the chapter (as an independent and charitable body).  The Foundation is
free to fund or not fund, to recognise or derecognise.  But not to control.
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--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

2017-08-04 Thread Ilario Valdelli

The comment is a little bit partial.

The governance is partially connected with the local system law. In some 
countries no profit association are linked to strict parameters and the 
governance is not an option. I don't know personally the system law of 
France, but I suppose that it's weaker than in other countries.


The last point is connected with the point of privileges which are, at 
the opposite, balanced by stricter parameters than user groups.


Chapters have some obligations compensated by few privileges, and 
honestly the state of User Group is at the moment the easiest way to get 
an official recognition by WMF.


It's sufficient to check how many user groups have been created recently 
and how many chapters to define clearly if there is a "marginalization 
of alternatives".


Kind regards

On 04/08/2017 09:55, Leigh Thelmadatter wrote:

The current situation (further) demonstrates a huge weakness in the current 
system of the governance of local communities. The problems being discussed 
here are far from unique to Wikimedia France and can be seen not only in other 
affiliates, but also in the long-festering problems of the administration of 
Wikimedia projects. As Rogol and others note... the Foundation has it hands 
tied to a large degree because of both legal and ideological concerns. But this 
means that individuals and small groups of people are able to work the system 
to their advantage, with little to no accountability to either their local 
communities or to the overall movement.


As for the idea of forming alternate organizations, that is easier said than 
done. I speak from my experience with Wiki Learning Tec de Monterrey. It took 
us almost 2 years to get approval from AffCom as a user group among other 
struggles. The privileges that chapters have in particular allow for 
marginalization of alternatives.



From: Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of Rogol 
Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 11:38:01 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France

If the Foundation is seen to be directing the activities of a chapter at
the proposed level of micro-management then it would jeopardise the legal
status both of the Foundation (in terms of their safe harbour status) and
of the chapter (as an independent and charitable body).  The Foundation is
free to fund or not fund, to recognise or derecognise.  But not to control.



--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

2017-06-19 Thread Ilario Valdelli
This is the correct approach.

There are technical issues and there are social issues.

It’s time to don’t mix them.

Tor can be one solution, not exactly the best and there is no sense to mix the 
discussion. 

Kind regards

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Tim Starling
Sent: 19 June 2017 07:10
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's set up a Tor onion service for Wikipedia

On 13/06/17 20:28, Gergő Tisza wrote:
> Now that we have ascertained (again) that wikimedia-l is a ​poor channel
> for focused discussions about tech proposals, can we move this to
> Phabricator?

I filed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T168218

On 14/06/17 12:12, Risker wrote:
> I see your point, Gergo, but in reality Phabricator is an even worse
> channel to discuss projects that are, essentially, social issues. 

I'd rather you didn't discuss social issues on Phabricator. I filed
the task for the technical part of the project.

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] May 5: Update on Wikimedia movement strategy process (#15)

2017-05-08 Thread Ilario Valdelli
In these cases the big advantage is the capacity to be cloned. A
governement can block an ip or a domain but it would be hard to block
internet.

The good approach is to invite the web to host kiwix and zim files for
downloading. That would be easier than cloning Wikipedia content.

However that approach will save readers but not writers.

Kind regards

Il 07 Mag 2017 23:36, "Gabriel Thullen"  ha scritto:

> I agree with James that we need to encourage initiatives like Kiwix
> Wikipedia Zero. We need to be able to distribute Kiwix in countries that
> have blocked Wikipedia, because it is no big deal for a government to block
> the Kiwix.org site as well, and phone operators providing Wikipedia Zero
> will have to obey government injunctions. Chances are that a block on
> kiwix.org will hardly be noticed by our community. Looks like the good old
> sneakernet with USB flash drives is still a viable option...
>
> Gabe
>
> On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
> wrote:
>
> > Yup. It would be interesting to ponder if wiki app could channel through
> > Tor by default - in the spirit of The Guardian project. Informing users
> > about Tor benefits has obvious disavantages related to the fact that most
> > people will not be able to grasp it.
> >
> > Dariusz Jemielniak
> >
> > On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 9:26 PM, James Heilman  wrote:
> >
> > > The issues occurring in Turkey highlight that we may also need to keep
> in
> > > mind:
> > >
> > > * Access
> > >
> > > over the next 15 years. Where access is not only potentially hindered
> by
> > > governments but also technical and monetary realities in various
> country
> > > and region. We of course have already worked and continue to do work in
> > > this area with initiatives like Wikipedia Zero and Offline Wikipedia /
> > > Kiwix.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Katherine Maher 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > *Summary: The report from cycle 1 discussion is online[1]. The start
> of
> > > > cycle 2 is delayed until next week.*
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your contributions! We have been hard at work reading,
> > > > sorting, and summarizing more than 1,800 community member statements,
> > > from
> > > > more than 100 community discussions from across five continents. Each
> > of
> > > > these statements was a response to the question: "What do we want to
> > > build
> > > > or achieve together over the next 15 years?"
> > > >
> > > > You can find the full report on the major themes, and more details
> > about
> > > > them, in a summarized report on Meta-Wiki.[1]
> > > >
> > > > Some common themes emerged from these conversations:
> > > >
> > > > * Reliable, neutral, high-quality content
> > > > * Community health & support
> > > > * Internal & external collaboration
> > > > * Improved and new features
> > > > * Users, editors, & contributors
> > > > * Outreach, awareness, & promotion
> > > > * Innovation and adaptation
> > > > * Funding, staffing, and other organizational needs
> > > > * Support for emerging communities
> > > > * Advancing Wikipedia in education
> > > > * Movement values
> > > > * Sustainability & growth
> > > >
> > > > Each of these themes is described in more detail within the body of
> the
> > > > report,[1] and the full data spreadsheet from this analysis will be
> > > posted
> > > > soon.
> > > >
> > > > The movement strategy team has been working to group these themes
> > > together,
> > > > so that we have a smaller number of concepts to consider in the next
> > > cycle.
> > > > Because this work is important, we want to make sure the grouping and
> > > > analysis are comprehensive and thoughtful. In order to make sure we
> can
> > > get
> > > > it right, we’re delaying the start of cycle 2 discussions until next
> > > week.
> > > >
> > > > As you probably know, the Turkish authorities blocked Wikipedia in
> > Turkey
> > > > this week.[2] We’ve been working around the clock to understand the
> > > > circumstances and respond appropriately, including appealing in
> Turkish
> > > > court. We’re grateful to everyone who has reached out to offer us
> your
> > > > thoughts and perspective. Government limitations on free knowledge
> are
> > > just
> > > > one of the critical issues that have come up during the movement
> > strategy
> > > > process. As we confront these challenges in real time, it has been a
> > > > reminder for me how important our work is, and how it has very real
> > > > implications for people around the globe. Again, thank you.
> > > >
> > > > Kendine iyi bak (Turkish translation: “Take care of yourself”),
> > > >
> > > > Katherine
> > > >
> > > > PS. A version of this message is available for translation on
> > > Meta-Wiki.[3]
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > > movement/2017/Cycle_1/Report
> > > > [2]
> > > > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Chapter De-Recognition: Wikimedia Philippines

2017-04-25 Thread Ilario Valdelli
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>> *JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM*
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>>
>> j <mailto:jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com
>> <mailto:jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com>>osh@wikimedia.org.ph
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>> wayuukanairua junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka.
>> Ayatashi waya junain."
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Concerns in general

2017-01-29 Thread Ilario Valdelli
As I know there should be a disaster recovery plan within US, but the 
question is to know if the risk assessment includes also the political 
issues and the option to move the data centers outside US in case of 
political risks.


It's not my competence, but in several points there is a description of 
a plan of disaster recovery.


The concerns in this case are more connected with the legal consequences 
connected with the placement of data centers in US.


At least for Switzerland, Commons is absolutely a *no competitive media 
repository* cause the application of very restrictive US law besides any 
change that can happen with an election and the consequent change of the 
the political scenario.


The real problem is to know how political aspects are considered in this 
risk assessment and what are the plans to mitigate or to resolve them 
because we know that we have to follow the US law, but this answer is 
becoming more and more unsatisfying.


Kind regards

On 27.01.2017 04:33, Romaine Wiki wrote:

This is just the first week of this president!

I am 100% sure everyone in the Wikimedia movement is willing to make sure
Wikimedia faces no damage whatsoever, including in WMF, but to me this
still starts to get concerning.

If we as Wikimedia movement think that free knowledge, free speech, freedom
of information, etc are important, I would think that the location where
the organisation is based is that country where liberty is the largest, I
do not know where this is but it is definitely not the US.

To my impression WMF is stuck in the US, so I do not believe they would
actually move when the danger grows.

But I think it is possible to make sure risks are spread over the world.
Certainly as we are an international movement that intends to cover the
knowledge of the whole humanoid civilisation.

To come to a conclusion, I think WMF and the Wikimedia movement should
think about a back-up plan if it actually goes wrong.


If you do not agree with me: that is perfectly fine, that's your right and
should be protected.

Thank you.

Romaine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] LGBT+ safety considerations for conference venues

2016-10-16 Thread Ilario Valdelli

Hi,
I suppose that it should be a group of people to give relevant reasons 
and to be more proactive when selecting a bid mainly if connected with a 
poor respect of rights or with the safety of some specific diversities.


The link you give is more related to the rights than to the safety of 
people. In my opinion is incomplete. For instance North Carolina is not 
mentioned and looking at your link I would suppose that the whole USA is 
a safety place.


I would suggest to your group/you to list places where your life can be 
at risk, places where diversities like LGBT are not accepted, and safety 
countries or towns. Afterwards to push it as important aspect/policy to 
consider when selecting a town for a conference within Wikimania community.


This may help a lot and may give more useful and transparent material to 
the selection committee of Wiki conferences (because I have understood 
that your reasons would include the selection not only of Wikimania).


Kind regards

On 16.10.2016 19:20, Pax Ahimsa Gethen wrote:
Thanks Anna. I forgot to include this relevant link (which I also 
posted in the Facebook discussion):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

- Pax


On 10/16/16 10:14 AM, Anna Stillwell wrote:

These are lovely suggestions / requests. Thank you for raising them. I'm
happy to hear of your positive experience at WikiConference.

+1
/a

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
list-wikime...@funcrunch.org> wrote:


Hello all. I had a positive experience at WikiConference North America
last weekend, where I gave a talk on transgender issues and 
Wikipedia.[1]

I'm posting because there's an active discussion in Wikipedia Weekly on
Facebook about choosing a host country for Wikimania 2018.[2] I am
concerned that some of the suggestions are not taking into account the
safety of LGBT+ people; not just those attending the conference, but 
also

those living in the host country.

As a queer trans atheist in a same-sex marriage, there are a number of
places where I am considered a criminal for just existing or going 
about my
daily routine. This applies to some parts of the U.S. as well, by 
the way;
I won't be visiting North Carolina as long as it's illegal for me to 
use

the men's restroom there. Please keep these considerations in mind when
planning meetups and conferences. Thank you.

- Pax aka Funcrunch

[1] http://funcrunch.org/blog/2016/10/12/making-connections-at-
wikiconference-north-america/

[2] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/
1114259788621851/




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Chapters] [Affiliates] Changes to current chapter and thematic organisation criteria

2016-08-25 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi,
I appreciate the effort, it's interesting but there should more flexibility
in my opinion.

All is relative. Probably in Estonia, to do an outdoor activity, people
must wait more time than buying a loaf of bread in Venezuela. Depending on
the variable everyone has more difficulties than another, but it's
different to divide the world into good and bad.

Some criteria should be meet, I agree, but the flexibility and more a
matrix of criteria makes sense.

The biggest problem in a general concept of rules is to introduce global
rules that can kill the diversity.

They will help to have standardized and well defined entities and easy to
monitor, but also similar and undifferentiated entities.

To measure a maturity of a model the best would be to introduce a
combination of variables and not only three. It would be good to have,
let's say, three different parameters for each areas to have at least 9
different standards as a combination.

I think that a more flexible criteria can be a valid support.

Kind regards


On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Carlos M. Colina <ma...@wikimedia.org.ve>
wrote:

> Hello Pine,
>
> El 19/08/2016 a las 06:28 p.m., Pine W escribió:
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> In general, I like the new criteria.
>
> I would like to suggest making the criteria entirely quantitative, so that
> there is minimal subjectivity about whether or not affiliates are meeting
> these standards and therefore there is likely to be less controversy about
> the status of affiliates.
>
>
> The problem of  making the criteria entirely quantitative is that the
> context where affiliates operate is not the same across the world. We
> cannot apply a rigid, based in fixed numbers criteria because the situation
> of Estonia or The Netherlands, to give an example, is not the same of
> Venezuela, where people need to queue for hours just to buy a loaf of
> bread, if they happen to be lucky enough to find a bakery operating, or
> where scheduled 4-hour daily blackouts are the norm across the country
> except for the capital.
>
> If all affiliates operated in the same conditions, that would be another
> story.
>
> --
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] WMF Board of Trustees appointments and officer positions

2016-06-23 Thread Ilario Valdelli
 the Wikimedia projects, she’s been an active contributor since 2011, and
> shortly after became an administrator of Ukrainian Wikipedia
> <https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Головна_сторінка>. She has also been a
> member of the Wikimedia Ukraine <https://ua.wikimedia.org/wiki/>
> community for nearly four years, and has served as the chapter’s Board
> Treasurer, Vice Chair, and volunteer Executive Director.
> --
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising Testing Update (Friday 6th May) - Hopefully the first of Many

2016-05-10 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi Joseph,
I think that the banner could be useful to test some problems I see when
there is a switch of context.

I live near the border Italy-Switzerland and I see several discrepancies
when I connect in Italy and in Switzerland.

Basically I continue to see banners of Switzerland when I connect in Italy
and viceversa.

Probably there is something connected with the cookies or with a
persistence of personal data of browsing.

In my opinion this experiment can be a good test to check if this problem
is persistent switching the content.

In addition my question is about the implementation of this kind of banner
because the centralnotice can be set per country, per project and per
language. Do this banner add also the possibility to set it by content?

Kind regards


On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 6:34 PM, Joseph Seddon <jsed...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Greetings all,
>
> I wanted to give you a heads up about a small test WMF Online Fundraising
> will be running over this weekend. Following a suggestion from
> User:Wittylama we are for the first time going to be testing fundraiser
> banners that are content specific. [1]
>
> From now until Monday 9th May we will be running an A/B test strictly on
> articles relating to Game of Thrones [2] and only within the United States.
> The reason being its huge popular appeal and expected spikes of traffic to
> related articles during the airing of the next episode this Sunday . This
> is the first test of its kind so we are being reasonable in our
> expectations. It's hoped that this sort of specific messaging will allow us
> to engage with our readership a little better through our fundraising and
> in time provide alternatives to our standard messaging.
>
> The banner we are testing [3] has gone through several iterations and we
> are trying to strike that fine line between engaging with our readers by
> being content specific but at the same time avoiding being seen as
> advertising or overt endorsement. There were certainly some more
> extravagant ideas but we have gone with the more conservative option for
> now.
>
> If you have any ideas you would like to suggest about either our process or
> banner ideas feel free to contribute on our fundraising ideas page. [4]
>
> It is my plan going forward to provide more regular updates about our
> testing and the results we find from it. What form that takes and where I
> post those I'll decide in the coming weeks and will update you then.
>
> Hope you all have a great weekend.
>
> [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising/2015-16_Fundraising_ideas#Related_content_banners
> [2] http://pastebin.com/M8AjB1tk
> [3]
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones?force=1=US=B1516_0506_enUS_dsk_p1_lg_got_got
> [4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising/2015-16_Fundraising_ideas
>
> --
> Seddon
>
> *Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)*
> *Wikimedia Foundation*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising Testing Update (Friday 6th May) - Hopefully the first of Many

2016-05-09 Thread Ilario Valdelli
In Switzerland is not expensive...
Il 09 Mag 2016 20:33, "Michael Peel"  ha scritto:

>
> > On 9 May 2016, at 18:36, Béria Lima  wrote:
> >
> > My 2 cents :D
> >
> > 1. I can't see the banner (not using the link posted or going by
> > CentralNotice) Could someone who can see it take a print please? :D
>
> Here's a screenshot as it appears on my computer:
> http://www.mikepeel.net/temp/wmf_fundraiser_got.pdf
>
> The part of it that sounds odd to me is that it still includes the
> statement "If everyone reading this right now gave $3, our fundraiser would
> be done within an hour." - is that still true for more
> narrowly-focused/seen banners, and for year-round fundraising? Plus, the
> expensive cup of coffee's still mentioned. ;-)
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What can we learn

2016-04-11 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Any COI generates burocracy. After or before.

Doing it before helps to avoid empty seats.

In an election is the same community to check it. If there is an
appointment, there is not a preliminary extensive check. A potential COI is
revealed after the appointment.
Il 09 Apr 2016 12:15, "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> ha
scritto:

> Hoi,
> Really more bureaucracy? As if that does not bring its own conflict of
> interest?
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
> On 9 April 2016 at 10:20, Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What should be noted is that a personal declaration of COI cannot be
> > sufficient. Probably an evaluation of potential conflits done by a
> > committee as neutral body can help the candidates to better evaluate the
> > candidacy and to manage them better.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Il 09 Apr 2016 8:26 AM, "Anders Wennersten" <m...@anderswennersten.se>
> ha
> > scritto:
> >
> > > I, as all others, has full sympathy for Danny and find that he in his
> > mail
> > > made an excellent explanation on how the situation made the option to
> > > resign the only reasonable way forward
> > >
> > > BUT this is the second community selected that has left the Board
> within
> > a
> > > year after being appointed, and before any future election (either a
> snap
> > > byelection soon, or the ordinary in a years time) I believe we should
> > look
> > > into if anything can be learnt. And if there are things, primary in the
> > > election process, that can be done to ensure the appointed community
> > > selected members of the Board staying on the whole term.
> > >
> > > For Danny my interpretation is that he is very operational role in
> > > ordinary work leads to many interaction with WMF etc and where COI
> > > consideration hampers his day-to-days activities. And that his major
> > > strength, "Wikidata", is hard to make use of in the Board as any
> > > influencing of decision re this also puts him in a COI situation, and
> > that
> > > he outside this competence finds he has limited "value" for the board
> > work.
> > >
> > > But all of these facts was known before the election (but not necessary
> > > the ramification). Would a more elaborate (tedious long?) description
> of
> > > requirements of serving in the Board helped Danny to understand the
> > > challenge before he entered his candidacy? Would some type of
> > (lightweight)
> > > "vetting" by the Election committee by all candidates have identified
> > this
> > > risk (which then could have been feedbacked to the candidate)? Should
> for
> > > future election the election committee not only be facilitator of the
> > > election, but also help he voters in complementing the data given by
> each
> > > candidate by some type of comments? For example last time the
> requirement
> > > from the board was non western (non English natives) persons and
> priority
> > > for nonmale. but 2 out of 3 was just his. Could some mark on the
> > candidate
> > > statement made by the EC (he/she is/is not fulfilling the Board
> criteria)
> > > had helped?
> > >
> > > The setup up of a Standing Election Committee is under formation but it
> > > will probably still be some month before it is established. Any changes
> > in
> > > the election process has to await this formation, but I believe a
> > > discussion of learnings can start independently.
> > >
> > > Anders
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What can we learn

2016-04-09 Thread Ilario Valdelli
What should be noted is that a personal declaration of COI cannot be
sufficient. Probably an evaluation of potential conflits done by a
committee as neutral body can help the candidates to better evaluate the
candidacy and to manage them better.

Kind regards
Il 09 Apr 2016 8:26 AM, "Anders Wennersten"  ha
scritto:

> I, as all others, has full sympathy for Danny and find that he in his mail
> made an excellent explanation on how the situation made the option to
> resign the only reasonable way forward
>
> BUT this is the second community selected that has left the Board within a
> year after being appointed, and before any future election (either a snap
> byelection soon, or the ordinary in a years time) I believe we should look
> into if anything can be learnt. And if there are things, primary in the
> election process, that can be done to ensure the appointed community
> selected members of the Board staying on the whole term.
>
> For Danny my interpretation is that he is very operational role in
> ordinary work leads to many interaction with WMF etc and where COI
> consideration hampers his day-to-days activities. And that his major
> strength, "Wikidata", is hard to make use of in the Board as any
> influencing of decision re this also puts him in a COI situation, and that
> he outside this competence finds he has limited "value" for the board work.
>
> But all of these facts was known before the election (but not necessary
> the ramification). Would a more elaborate (tedious long?) description of
> requirements of serving in the Board helped Danny to understand the
> challenge before he entered his candidacy? Would some type of (lightweight)
> "vetting" by the Election committee by all candidates have identified this
> risk (which then could have been feedbacked to the candidate)? Should for
> future election the election committee not only be facilitator of the
> election, but also help he voters in complementing the data given by each
> candidate by some type of comments? For example last time the requirement
> from the board was non western (non English natives) persons and priority
> for nonmale. but 2 out of 3 was just his. Could some mark on the candidate
> statement made by the EC (he/she is/is not fulfilling the Board criteria)
> had helped?
>
> The setup up of a Standing Election Committee is under formation but it
> will probably still be some month before it is established. Any changes in
> the election process has to await this formation, but I believe a
> discussion of learnings can start independently.
>
> Anders
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-09 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi Denny
Your email is very interesting to understand the conflict you were
experimenting to introduce innovation and good ideas in Wikimedia projects.

In my opinion the biggest problem is the overlapping between direction and
execution. Do you think that your action would be less efficient operating
outside the board of trustees?

Your opinion would be very appreciated because you are a good example of a
member who can really address the decisions in an innovative direction but
blocked by a strict definition of COI.

Kind regards
Il 08 Apr 2016 20:17, "Denny Vrandecic"  ha
scritto:

> I exchanged a walk on part in the war for a lead role in the cage.
>
> I find myself tied and limited in my actions and projects. In order to
> avoid the perception or potential for Conflict of Interests I have to act
> extremely carefully in far too many parts of my life. Instead of being able
> to pursue my projects or some projects at work - which I think would align
> very well with our mission - I found myself trapped between too many
> constraints. I feel like I cannot offer my thoughts and my considerations
> openly, since they might easily be perceived as expressions of interests -
> regarding my previous work, regarding my friends, regarding my current
> employment.
>
> This hit home strongly during the FDC deliberations, where I had to deal
> with the situation of people deliberating a proposal written by my Best
> Man, around a project that has consumed the best part of the previous
> decade of my life. Obviously, I explained the conflicts in this case, and
> refrained from participating in the discussion, as agreed with the FDC.
>
> This hit home every time there was a topic that might be perceived as a
> potential conflict of interest between Wikimedia and my employer, and even
> though I might have been in a unique position to provide insight, I had to
> refrain from doing so in order not to exert influence.
>
> There were constant and continuous attacks against me, as being merely
> Google’s mole on the Board, even of the election being bought by Google. I
> would not have minded these attacks so much - if I would have had the
> feeling that my input to the Board, based on my skills and experiences,
> would have been particularly valuable, or if I would have had the feeling
> of getting anything done while being on the Board. As it is, neither was
> the case.
>
> I discussed with Jan-Bart, then chair, what is and what is not appropriate
> to pursue as a member of the Board. I understood and followed his advice,
> but it was frustrating. It was infuriatingly limiting.
>
> As some of you might know, Wikidata was for me just one step towards my
> actual goal, a fully multilingual Wikipedia. I hoped that as a Trustee I
> could pursue that goal, but when even writing a comment on a bug in
> Phabricator has to be considered under the aspect that it will be read as
> "it is a Board-member writing that comment" and/or “It’s a Googler writing
> that comment”, I don’t see how I could effectively pursue such a goal.
>
> It was at Wikimania 2006 in Boston, when Markus Krötzsch and I had lunch
> with Dan Connolly, a co-editor of the early HTML specs. Dan gave me an
> advise that still rings with me - to do the things worth doing that only
> you can do. This set me, back then, on a path that eventually lead to the
> creation of Wikidata - which, before then, wasn't something I wanted to do
> myself. I used to think that merely suggesting it would be enough - someone
> will eventually do it, I don’t have to. There’s plenty of committed and
> smart people at the Foundation, they’ll make it happen. Heck, Erik was back
> then a supporter of the plan (he was the one to secure the domain
> wikidata.org), and he was deputy director. Things were bound to happen
> anyway. But that is not what happened. I eventually, half a decade later,
> realized that if I do not do it, it simply won't happen, at least not in a
> reasonable timeframe.
>
> And as said, Wikidata was just one step on the way. But right now I cannot
> take the next steps. Anything that I would do or propose or suggest will be
> regarded through the lense of my current positions. To be fair, I do see
> that I should not be both the one suggesting changes, and the one deciding
> on them. I understand now that I could not have suggested Wikidata as a
> member of the Board. It takes an independent Board to evaluate such
> proposal and its virtues and decide on them.
>
> I want to send a few thank yous, in particular to the teams at the
> Wikimedia Foundation and at Google who helped me steer clear of actual
> conflicts of interests. They were wonderful, and extremely helpful. It
> bears a certain irony that both organizations had strong measures against
> exactly the kind of things that I have been regularly accused of.
>
> I only see three ways to stay clear from a perceived or potential Conflict
> of Interest: to lay still and do nothing, to 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] What it means to be a *volunteer* organization

2016-02-29 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi Leigh
In general there is always a transparent hierarchy and an untasparent one
self organized following the real leaderships.

Problems happen when the gap between both increases. In this case the real
decisions are made in front of a coffee machine and not in the right places.

The solution is a strong commitment from higher levels and a different
organization  (for instance by matrix and not simply functional).

Anyway it is the C level having the power to introduce a revolution like
this.

Kind regards
Il 28/Feb/2016 08:09 PM, "Leigh Thelmadatter"  ha
scritto:

> I have to agree here. The WMF and its employees have forgotten that the
> mission is to support the work done on the various wikis, not make work for
> fireworks for themselves.
> Nothing we are dealing with here is new. It is just the eruption of some
> very long-standing problems with the WMF and the tone it sets for the rest
> of the movement. While some might be celebrating now, Lila was not the
> problem.  IMHO, the problem is a lot of hidden hierarchies (denied of
> course). Add to that, that the lack of transparency allows the growth of
> hidden agendas.
> Remember this blew when a community selected board member was tossed off
> the board unceremoniously. We find out through this that the community (or
> chapters) have no real voice on the board under the current set up.
>
>
> > From: dacu...@gmail.com
> > Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:52:30 +0100
> > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] What it means to be a *volunteer* organization
> >
> > I am starting a new thread because I disagree with the idea that the WMF
> > should be a high-tech organization as the other thread by Brion seemed to
> > suggest. Yes, technology is a tool that we use in our mission to gather
> and
> > process all forms of human knowledge, but in the end the driving force is
> > volunteership.
> >
> > Without volunteers there wouldn't be any movement and there wouldn't be
> any
> > need for tools, or any donations whatsoever. It is the concept of working
> > for free for the common good that allows us to exist and fulfill our
> > mission. The WMF is instrumental in providing the tools for it to happen,
> > but those tools are not only technological, they are also legal,
> > educational, and social, however when talking through computer screens we
> > seem to forget that.
> >
> > A hi-tech tool can work for a given task or not, but there are more
> > important topics like trust, commitment, empowerment, motivation, and joy
> > that cannot be assessed so easily, and that are at least as crucial as
> any
> > software. What is the point of having a perfect tool Z if I don't enjoy
> > working with my fellows on a common mission?
> >
> > The role of nurturing volunteers is not exclusive of affiliate
> > organizations, the WMF offer grants to volunteers and organizes several
> > gatherings. Is that enough to strengthen the volunteer community? Then I
> > look at organizations like WOOF or workaway that thrive with full-time
> > volunteers and I wonder if more opportunities could be opened for our
> > volunteers.
> > Is there anything holding us back to try new things besides old patterns
> of
> > participation?
> >
> > It is a challenge to do more for the volunteer community without
> resorting
> > to grants or payment, but that is the key to succeed as a volunteer
> > organization, to provide an ecosystem where personal growth is possible.
> >
> > I am interested in hearing what others have to say about it. Maybe it is
> > possible to gather ideas or even a team of people who wants to research
> > more information about the topic.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Micru
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What it means to be a high-tech organization

2016-02-29 Thread Ilario Valdelli
The KPIS is not only quantitave measures.

For instance an anonymous survey may measure the level of satisfaction of
people and it's more qualitative.

The simplicity of KPIS is to agree (all parties) about the indicators and
to cut off discussions about success/insuccess.

Something can be a success for someone an insuccess for another one.

They are indicators and not only measures.

Kind regards
Il 29/Feb/2016 14:58, "Brion Vibber" <bvib...@wikimedia.org> ha scritto:

> On Feb 29, 2016 3:13 AM, "Ilario Valdelli" <valde...@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','valde...@gmail.com');>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > in my opinion there is no need to differentiate and to clarify what
> > "high-tech" means.
> >
> > The real problem is to define the KPIs (key performance indicators) and a
> > balanced relation of those indicators.
> >
> > A corporation can be a high-tech corporation and take care of the comfort
> > of all stakeholders without problems, the big deal is to find this
> balanced
> > relation.
>
> I too like measuring things, but I think we can't just measure people and
> expect that's going to create a healthy productive environment for staff
> and volunteers. I think you have to talk and listen to people to do that.
> Rant time:
>
> It's great to track measurable things to engage in a feedback loop for
> whether we're accomplishing our goals, but the measures are always limited
> in what they tell you; at best they're proxies for the information you
> really wanted -- such as "page views" when we want to know "how many people
> are learning and improving their lives through Wikipedia?" or active editor
> counts when we want to know "do we have a strong, healthy volunteer
> workforce?"
>
> It's very common for such feedback loops to fail dramatically when you
> optimize for the measurement instead of for your actual goals...
>
> Focusing on KPIs is how people die in hospitals (because the sickest people
> don't get risky surgery to keep post-op survival rates up) or schools with
> at-risk children get defunded here in the US (schools whose students
> get low standardized testing results are punished under the "No Child Left
> Behind" law of 2001).
>
> This link came up in some discussions off list, and aligns with my
> concerns:
>
> http://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/08/03/the-costs-of-accountability/
>
> -- brion
>
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 10:29 PM, Brion Vibber <bvib...@wikimedia.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bvib...@wikimedia.org');>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I think there are many different interpretations of what it means to
> "be a
> > > high-tech organization", which makes it a difficult label to base
> arguments
> > > around; readers will interpret it very differently depending on their
> > > personal experiences and biases.
> > >
> > > One view might concentrate on notions of "innovation", "excellence", or
> > > "return on investment" achieved through super-smart people creating
> unique
> > > technology -- this view associates "high-tech" with success,
> competitive
> > > advantage, brand awareness/marketshare, and money (profit for
> traditional
> > > corporations, or investment in the mission for non-profits).
> > >
> > > Another view might concentrate on other features considered common to
> > > "high-tech" companies such as toxic work environments, lack of
> diversity,
> > > overemphasis on engineering versus other disciplines, disconnection
> from
> > > users' needs, and a laser-focus on achieving profits at the expense of
> > > long-term thinking. This view associates "high-tech" with social and
> > > economic inequality and exploitation of employees and users for their
> labor
> > > & attention to the detriment of their physical and emotional health.
> > >
> > > And there are many, much subtler connotations to be found in between.
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe a high-tech organization should invest in smart people
> creating
> > > unique technology. But I also think it should invest in people, period.
> > > Staff and volunteers must be cultivated and supported -- that's how
> loyalty
> > > and passion are developed, and I believe they pay dividends in
> productivity
> > > and recruitment.
> > >
> > > Absolutely Wikimedia Foundation needs to build better t

Re: [Wikimedia-l] What it means to be a high-tech organization

2016-02-29 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi,
in my opinion there is no need to differentiate and to clarify what
"high-tech" means.

The real problem is to define the KPIs (key performance indicators) and a
balanced relation of those indicators.

A corporation can be a high-tech corporation and take care of the comfort
of all stakeholders without problems, the big deal is to find this balanced
relation.

Kind regards



On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 10:29 PM, Brion Vibber <bvib...@wikimedia.org>
wrote:

> I think there are many different interpretations of what it means to "be a
> high-tech organization", which makes it a difficult label to base arguments
> around; readers will interpret it very differently depending on their
> personal experiences and biases.
>
> One view might concentrate on notions of "innovation", "excellence", or
> "return on investment" achieved through super-smart people creating unique
> technology -- this view associates "high-tech" with success, competitive
> advantage, brand awareness/marketshare, and money (profit for traditional
> corporations, or investment in the mission for non-profits).
>
> Another view might concentrate on other features considered common to
> "high-tech" companies such as toxic work environments, lack of diversity,
> overemphasis on engineering versus other disciplines, disconnection from
> users' needs, and a laser-focus on achieving profits at the expense of
> long-term thinking. This view associates "high-tech" with social and
> economic inequality and exploitation of employees and users for their labor
> & attention to the detriment of their physical and emotional health.
>
> And there are many, much subtler connotations to be found in between.
>
>
> I believe a high-tech organization should invest in smart people creating
> unique technology. But I also think it should invest in people, period.
> Staff and volunteers must be cultivated and supported -- that's how loyalty
> and passion are developed, and I believe they pay dividends in productivity
> and recruitment.
>
> Absolutely Wikimedia Foundation needs to build better technologies --
> technologies to serve the needs of our editors, our readers, our
> photographers, our citation reviewers, etc. This means Wikimedia Foundation
> needs a good relationship with those people to research, brainstorm, plan,
> develop, test, redevelop, retest, and roll out software successfully. The
> people who represent Wikimedia Foundation in those relationships are its
> staff, so it's important for management to support them in their work and
> help them succeed.
>
> It is my sincere hope that when the current crises are resolved, that the
> Board of Trustees and the executive can agree on at least this much as a
> shared vision for the Foundation.
>
> -- brion
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-- 
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
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Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Wikipedia: Ilario <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why we changed

2016-02-22 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi Kat
This is good.

But why not to look for a CTO?

Designing a CTO's profile and putting it in a CEO's profile is a big
challenge. This can happen but means also to have a big change of the
vision of WMF.

Kind regards
Il 22/Feb/2016 19:12, "Kat Walsh"  ha scritto:

> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:03 AM, George Herbert
>  wrote:
>
> > One phrase I see used quite often is "sometimes we need to break a few
> eggs."  For those who are not native american english speakers, this is
> referring to the need to move beyond shifting things around into breaking
> things apart, letting people go who may not fit in the new plan, stopping
> things outright, etc.  The eggs - people, projects, structures, policies,
> assumptions - need to partly go away - be broken - in order to reform.
> >
> > Lila's vision here clearly calls the change campaign out as having
> explicitly intended to break eggs.
> >
> > It further suggests strongly that this was the Board of Trustees'
> intention in hiring her, and that they agreed with breaking those eggs.
>
> I left the board during the search process, but remained on the search
> committee. So while I cannot know what the board was thinking after
> her tenure began, I can say that the search committee was not looking
> for a "turnaround CEO"--at least to my understanding we were looking
> for someone who would be able to execute better on some of the areas
> (particularly engineering) where we wanted to make more improvements
> but hadn't.
>
> (Which would naturally involve some change--but sweeping reforms were
> not envisioned; part of why Sue stepped down when she did was that she
> felt the organization was basically stable and could be smoothly
> handed off. It is certainly possible for someone to come in and decide
> that was a wrong assessment, but it wasn't what the committee had been
> looking for.)
>
> -Kat
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why we changed

2016-02-22 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi,
This explanation is really appreciated and it helps to understand a point
of view. The problem is that it's "a" point of view.

We can define it as a "change management". In this explanation are missed
some points.

The first point is the mapping of the stakeholders and to define what the
stakeholders think of this change and how they can influence or block this
change.

This point is really important and it's considered as "initiation phase" of
a change. Without this mapping a project can easily fail.

The second missed point is the communication.

A change should demonstrate to introduce several benefits and to be
efficient. Basically after the mapping, the communication helps to keep the
support of those stakeholders.

Personally I have seen big projects to fail cause a bad communication and
the creation of a block and of a resistance to the change in important
stakeholders. This is a risk that should be considered because this risk
can block any change even if good and rational.

A change cannot be "imposed" because WMF is an open system interacting with
the environment.

I remember that Sue Gardner, when introduced the strategic plan, spent a
long session during the chapters meeting in Berlin in order to communicate
and to collect feedbacks from the chapters considered an important
stakeholder.

Probably her strategic plan was weaker, but the introduction generated
lesser discussion and conflicts.

Kind regards


On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 1:22 AM, Lila Tretikov <l...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

>
> This has not been easy.
>
>
> In practice this means I demanded that we set standards for staff
> communication with our community to be professional and respectful. It
> meant transitioning people, shutting down pet projects, promoting some but
> not others, demanding goals and results to get funding. This level of
> change is necessary to set up our organization to address the challenges of
> the next decade.
>
>
> All of this means stepping away from our comfort zones to create capacity
> for building programs and technologies that will support us in the future.
> It is a demanding and difficult task to perform an organizational change at
> this scale and speed.
>
>
> I believe that in order to successfully serve our community and humanity,
> the WMF has deliver best-of class technology and professional support for
> community. This will ensure we are delivering significant impact to
> volunteer editors and opening avenues for new types of contributions. This
> requires that we choose the route of technical excellence for the WMF with
> support and encouragement from our community partners. Without this
> empowerment, the WMF will not succeed.
>
>
> The world is not standing still. It will not wait for us to finish our
> internal battles and struggles. Time is our most precious commodity.
>
>
> Lila
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] An Open Letter to Wikimedia Foundation BoT

2016-02-20 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I like this email of Chris and what seems to me strange is that there is an
evident lack of control of the board.

I have read the emails of resignation without being shocked. They were
expected. It's sufficient to use Mr.google and to reach Glassdoor to read
the anonymous comments of former employees to discover there is a general
unsatisfaction.

The motivation and the general "wealth" of employees and of the community
is important. These are the numbers that the board must ask to see and not
other stupid KPIs.

Kind regards
Il 20/Feb/2016 10:25, "Chris Keating"  ha
scritto:

> On 19 Feb 2016 23:49, "Denny Vrandecic" wrote
> > # The alternative is to allow every member of the Board to engage
> > individually as they like. This will mean that there are much more
> > individual conversations going on, things can be better explained. But
> this
> > also means that the individual Trustee's statement must not be taken as
> > golden representations of the Board's thinking. If ten Board members
> engage
> > with the community (which won't happen anyway, but even if it's five), do
> > expect five different voices and opinions, and don't expect that
> everything
> > said will actually become a resolution (which, in the end, is the only
> way
> > the Board as a Board can communicate anyway). This obviously can lead to
> > plenty of "that Trustee said that" or "no, I talked with Trustee X, and
> she
> > said that this change is a bad idea", etc. - never mind possible legal
> > implications.
>
> Hi Denny (and the rest of the Board),
>
> From my experience of Wikimedia movement conversations  (and other
> conversations from similar organisations) it is usually better to have
> Board members contributing to debates with their own voices. It's really
> reassuring to know that someone is saying something. Silence, by contrast,
> results in a lot of doubts. Thinking back to the Haifa letter and the
> discussion around fundraising and so on in 2011-2 - it was really helpful
> in that discussion when WMF board members started sharing their
> (conflicting) views rather than communicating through agreed statements  (
> which took hours to write and then ended up being really unclear anyway ).
> It meant that the Board started to look like a bunch of people trying to do
> the best job given conflicting perspectives, and stopped looking like an
> uncontrollable monolith.
>
> Of course it doesn't help that there are some people on this list who will
> leap at every statement to find fault with it - but usually those people
> are fed more by silence than by engagement.
>
> And of course it is not always possible to talk publically about
> differences of approach or upcoming issues - particularly where staff are
> concerned - but it is best to talk as far as you can, in my view.
>
> Chris
>
> >
> > Since I have been on the Board there was never even really a discussion
> > which of these options we should take. And I am not surprised by it -
> > considering how creative and dissective some community members can be
> with
> > the statements from Board members. Seriously, I am not feeling
> comfortable
> > with sharing any of my thoughts here, and even this mail I hope I will
> > press send before I just delete it.
> >
> > This mail, please, do not read it as an excuse for the Board. I am not
> > trying to downplay the current situation nor to take responsibility away
> > from the Board. I am not trying to blame anyone at all, but merely trying
> > to explain why the heck we act so fucking dumb sometimes.
> >
> > Again, thanks,
> > Denny
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Delphine Ménard 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I believe that Dariusz' comment was somewhat blown out of proportions
> > > (due in part to difficulties in communication inherent to our
> > > multicultural movement). I also think that some of the statements he
> > > made were too "blanket" to let go, so I understand the frustration.
> > >
> > > This said, Ori, I want to thank you for what I believe is the most
> > > daring, heartfelt and bold emails ever written to this list.
> > >
> > > And I use the word bold very specifically because I believe that this
> > > is what is missing today. Boldness. Boldness does not only translate
> > > in taking (un)calculated risks, it also comes in the capacity of
> > > admitting failure.
> > >
> > > I'll tell you where I think we, as an organisation, have failed. It
> > > was already a long time ago, when we started to talk about efficiency.
> > > When the Foundation started working and acting like an American Global
> > > Corporation, and stopped cherishing our diversity and leverage it to
> > > do that thing we once all dreamed of "taking over the world". I will
> > > give you a few examples which I think illustrate the failure to be
> > > bold in organisational ways. They might shed a light on today's
> > > governance chaos.
> > >
> > > Fundraising & Trademark: For 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An Open Letter to Wikimedia Foundation BoT

2016-02-18 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi Ido,
your email is interesting and reveals an important issue: the governance of
a no for profit organization is a little bit different from that of a
"commercial" company.

In my opinion there is an unclear definition of the stakeholders and the
definition of the importance of these stakeholders and the relations they
have.

Missing a clear definition of these entities and how they are related and
what kind of potential conflicts can be generated by them, it can only
drive to the current picture.

Kind regards

On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, ido ivri <idoi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear members of the WMF Board of Trustees,
>
> I’ve been following the recent events silently - from the voting out of
> James Heilman, to the unfortunate timing of recruiting Arnnon Geshuri and
> the lack of clear, timely communication around WMF strategy in in general
> and specifically around the so-called “Knowledge Engine” grant, received by
> the Knight Foundation.
>
> Even more alarming to me, is the slew of exceptional community-facing
> employees who left (or are leaving) the Foundation, accompanied by muffled
> sounds of discontent from staying Foundation employees.
>
> I’m breaking my silence because I’m very concerned. My concerns stem from
> my past experiences with facilitating strategic changes and my experience
> in grantmaking - both in and outside of the Movement.
>
> I’m concerned because it’s evident that the Foundation is undergoing a
> deep, strategic change. But this change is not accompanied by the required
> transparency, honesty and accountability required by the Foundation in
> order to truly transform in a way that's beneficial for the organization
> and its community.
>
> I’m concerned, because while the “Knowledge Engine” grant provides only a
> specific example, it underlines a larger picture that is disturbing:
> concealment (rather than openness) as a default, lack of consultation with
> the community and weak, general communication around important matters only
> after bad press. I also suspect that the vocal members of the community are
> right, and that a $250K grant is not the issue, but it part of a bigger
> move that will require significantly more resources for the Foundation to
> implement.
>
> Lastly, I’m concerned because all this stirs no clear communication from
> the Board of Trustees. A Board of Trustees implies there should be trust
> between the Board and its constituents. I suspect this isn’t the case
> anymore.
>
> If any APG-receiving affiliate conducted itself in such a non transparent,
> dishonest manner and with lack of clear, timely communication with its
> community and stakeholders, it would get seriously reprimanded by the
> Foundation: its board audited, its budget cut, etc. Expecting the
> Foundation to be held to a lower standard than any of its worldwide
> affiliates is just hypocritical.
>
> I urge the Board of Trustees - Don’t forget that the community of
> volunteers and affiliates is a major stakeholder of the Wikimedia
> Foundation - and many of us are concerned. I think the community deserves
> to better understand where the Wikimedia Foundation is going, and get
> honest answers about the changes in the organization, for us to be trusting
> again. Please start communicating clearly about those topics.
>
> With utmost respect,
>
> Ido (AKA AlleyCat80)
>
>
> Board Member, WMIL
>
> Member, Simple APG & GAC.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Monetizing Wikimedia APIs

2016-01-16 Thread Ilario Valdelli

Interesting.

It would make sense in general, but if we de-contextualize Wikimedia.

The potential of Wikimedia projects are connected with the question that 
they are free. Having a premium access means two kind of risks:


a) losing the community, and Wikipedia will become quickly a "big 
outdated content repository" without the community
b) managing a service, because a premium access would have a "premium 
service"


It's normal that someone else build a business on Wikimedia's content, 
but this allowed by the license, it's more difficult that Wikimedia 
Foundation can do a business with this content.


Kind regards

On 16.01.2016 10:23, Pete Forsyth wrote:

I'm interested to hear some perspectives on the following line of thinking:

Lisa presented some alternative strategies for revenue needs for the
Foundation, including the possibility of charging for premium access to the
services and APIs, expanding major donor and foundation fundraising,
providing specific services for a fee, or limiting the Wikimedia
Foundation's growth. The Board emphasized the importance of keeping free
access to the existing APIs and services, keeping operational growth in
line with the organization's effectiveness, providing room for innovation
in the Foundation's activities, and other potential fundraising strategies.
The Board asked Lila to analyze and develop some of these potential
strategies for further discussion at a Board meeting in 2016.
Source: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/2015-11-07
-Pete[[User:Peteforsyth]]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Yes but this list is public.

Being in the shoes of an external I would have so much material to do a
science fictional romance.
Il 09/Gen/2016 13:21, "Yaroslav M. Blanter" <pute...@mccme.ru> ha scritto:

> On 2016-01-09 13:14, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
>
>> Yes but this overlapping generates this kind of misunderstanding.
>>
>> For people being outside wikimedia community there are several changes too
>> much complicated.
>> Il 09/Gen/2016 13:08, "Yaroslav M. Blanter" <pute...@mccme.ru> ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>
> To be honest, I think people outside the Wikimedia community do not care.
>
> The problem at this point is the lack of mutual trust between WMF and the
> community, which started to get repaired in the second half of 2015, and
> which was not helped by the recent events.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Yes but this overlapping generates this kind of misunderstanding.

For people being outside wikimedia community there are several changes too
much complicated.
Il 09/Gen/2016 13:08, "Yaroslav M. Blanter"  ha scritto:

> On 2016-01-09 12:54, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote:
>
>> That James was replaced with Geshuri, who was involved in a scandal is
>> yet a other scandal.
>>
>>
> James Heilman was never replaced by Arnnon Geshuri. Arnnon replaced Stu
> West, and James will be replaced by a to-be-elected community member later
> this year.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board

2016-01-02 Thread Ilario Valdelli

Hi Dariusz,
governance is not a question mark that someone can mean as he wants.

In this case the real problem is connected with the stakeholders, and 
this is an unsolved real problem of governance.


As soon a board member has been selected/elected by a stakeholder, the 
board of trustees cannot dismiss it following the action taken in this 
specific case.


In this case the problem of un-governance is the identification of the 
stakeholders and the real power in the hands of each stakeholder.


The real problem of "un-governance" is more related with the action of 
the board of trustee than with James (at the moment).


I understand that James have "recognized his errors and admitted that he 
made mistakes and stepped out of process for a Board member" but at the 
moment the records of the board's meeting says that James voted against 
his dismission.


It means that you are doing a personal statement, but the official one 
is that James didn't accepted his dismission during the vote.


Kind regards

On 02.01.2016 12:08, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote:


Yet, when governance is involved, things work out a bit differently. I can
explain to you how I understand the results of the vote. I myself
considered voting in favor of the resolution. I also believe that others
reasonably considered their vote. James himself recognized his errors and
admitted that he made mistakes and stepped out of process for a Board
member. Our collective decision was carefully thought through. I also
understand well the reasons of many Board members who voted as they did.




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board

2015-12-31 Thread Ilario Valdelli

Hi Patricio,
a little question to understand.

Does it means that the majority of the board can dismiss the minority 
for some reasons?


I understand the effectiveness, but this sentence is a little bit critical.

Kind regards

On 31.12.2015 14:02, Patricio Lorente wrote:


Under the Wikimedia Foundation’s Bylaws, and, in accordance with Florida
law (where, as a 501(c)(3) charity, the Foundation is registered), members
of the Board who are selected through community or affiliate elections are
then appointed to the Board by the existing members. Since all members of
the Board are appointed by the Board itself, the Board retains the ability
to manage its composition as necessary to maintain the working environment
required to be effective.




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] AWB & Ubuntu: Can really someone help?

2015-12-29 Thread Ilario Valdelli

On 29.12.2015 10:10, Petr Kadlec wrote:

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com> wrote:


AWB is made in C#.

C# runs in .NET.

.NET is like a virtual machine to abstract the layer of the operating
system.

.NET runs in Windows doesn't run in Linux based OS.


Not really. Apart from Mono, we have .NET Core <https://dotnet.github.io/>
now. (However, I’m not saying AWB will run under either of those options or
even that it would be easy to make it work there.)

-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
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I have read that AWB is created using Microsoft Visual C#.

The big question mark is to know if something created on a .NET using 
the original framework can run in .NET Core.


But it could interesting to ask to the developers if they would migrate 
it and probably solving the big discrepancy and the big "operating 
system divide".


Kind regards

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board

2015-12-28 Thread Ilario Valdelli

On 29.12.2015 02:17, MZMcBride wrote:

---
; Approved: Patricio Lorente, Alice Wiegand, Frieda Brioschi, Jimmy Wales,
Stu West, Jan-Bart de Vreede, Guy Kawasaki, Denny Vrandečić,

; Oppose: Dariusz Jemielniak, James Heilman
---

This is a somewhat interesting breakdown. I'm also paying close attention
to what James posted on this mailing list. In my mind, he's the person
likely able to speak most freely about this removal and probably is more
familiar with it than most. For now, he seems to have chosen not to say
very much. Others involved in the removal likely can't (or maybe won't)
say much more, which of course just leaves everyone else to speculate.

MZMcBride



What is strange is that he votes and he votes in opposition.

Did someone see an inconsistencyon that?

Kind regards

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikisource technical issues (was Community Wishlist Survey: Top 10 wishes!)

2015-12-17 Thread Ilario Valdelli
The initiative is good also to train the community how to approach the
tools' development.

I think, and this is not a comment for Wikisource for it's a general
comment, that a tool is not a simple piece of software running for a bunch
of things.

The name "tool" is correct because is something available for a use: it can
used or not used.

Instead a "service" is a combination of tools, processes and people.

Good tools are important to build a good service but are not sufficient.

The real problem is that people miss always these three aspects and in
addition there is a wrong approach of programmers to build a tool with a
bad planning and analysis.

Several PM frameworks say that 80% of the time must be dedicated to plan,
because a good planning is mandatory for a good result.

The results of this survey are interesting, but this is a simple
"initiation process", it means that the better evaluation must follow.

So it's correct that a simple tool doesn't solve a problem.

Kind regards



On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andre...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> (splitting as per Richard request)
>
> > Question for the Wikisource folks: would Project Grants be a way to get
> > resources for you? If you can design a project and find people with the
> > right skills, that avenue might be beneficial for you. I have a software
> > developer in mind who would probably like to work with you if resources
> are
> > available and a project has the support of the community and WMF.
> >
> > Pine
>
> Hi Pine. My personal answer to your question is: no. Because we've already
> tried that, and we did barely scratch the surface of the issues.
> I'm on mobile and cannot provide you details and references, but in the
> past years we used both IEG and Google Summer of Code for funding
> developers, and we had few successinaddressing main issues. Also, tools
> that worked and were helpful are now abandoned.
> What wikisource lacks is development to core software, not only external,
> cool tools, which are fine but in the end don't really solve problems.
>
> I can elaborate further and bore you with details but, ina nutshell, we
> just need  commitment from people who can bring theirlines ofcode into
> production. As Wikisource is formally a Wikimedia project, and provides its
> tiny contribution to the mission and also to fundraising, I would expect a
> commitment of this sort coming from WMF.
>
> Aubrey
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paris

2015-11-14 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I have also checked yesterday through Internet and I was supported by all
of your messages.

I suppose that the hobbies of wiki*edians are safety hobbies (i.e.writing
wikipedia). So the probability of an accident is low.

Every time an accident happens we think to all people of the community
living over there.

We are with you.
Il 14/Nov/2015 11:26, "Christophe Henner"  ha
scritto:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> Sorry didn't thought of coming here (long night for me had to work).
>
> Nathalie, WMFr ED, checked all staff in.
> From all we could gather over the last hours, so far all parisians
> wikimedians are ok. Can't be 100% sure as we have some who still have to
> answer but so far so good.
>
> Thank you all for your kind words. It was a long night, will be a long
> week-end and hard time... for the second time in the year.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Take care of you and the people you love
>
> --
> Christophe
>
> On 14 November 2015 at 09:51, Giuliana Mancini <
> direttore-gener...@wikimedia.it> wrote:
>
> > Dear Nathalie,
> > I want to express our solidariety from Italy with all of you for the
> awful
> > things that happened yesterday.
> > If we can do anything, here we are.
> >
> > Giuliana
> >
> >
> >
> > Il 14/11/15 04:09, Sydney Poore ha scritto:
> >
> > Alex, thanks for sharing this information. My thoughts are with
> Wikimedians
> >> and their family and friends.
> >>
> >> Take care,
> >> Sydney
> >>
> >> Sydney Poore
> >> User:FloNight
> >> Wikipedian in Residence
> >> at Cochrane Collaboration
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Alex Cella 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> All the staff is safe, I'm in touch with them.
> >>>
> >>> Thnaks for asking.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> *Alex Cella*
> >>> Finance Fellow
> >>> ace...@wikimedia.org
> >>> LinkedIn 
> >>>
> >>> Wikimedia Foundation
> >>> 149 New Montgomery St., San Francisco, CA., 94105
> >>> www.wikimediafoundation.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Milos Rancic 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> May WMFR coordinate efforts to inform us if all Wikimedians from Paris
> 
> >>> are
> >>>
>  live and well?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

2015-10-31 Thread Ilario Valdelli

On 31.10.2015 12:12, Fæ wrote:

On 31 Oct 2015 11:00, "Ilario Valdelli" <valde...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 31.10.2015 11:46, Fæ wrote:

Hang on. Could I have an independent reality check; is that really $7
per photograph?

Fae

30.000 is exact, but they are 30.000 Real which means 11.000 USD.

Cool. So about $2.50 per image.

This looks expensive compared to my upload projects (the last 500,000
images have cost $0.00 in total) but perhaps the benchmark is better when
measures against other WLM projects.

Anyone have the numbers to show comparative value?

Fae


Using a bot to collect images in internet probably would have been 
lesser than 0$ per image.


Anyway the real calculation of an impact of a project is not so simple.

Because if we would use the same parameters, people reading this thread 
have spent more than 5 minutes, and calculating the sum of people 
reading this thread we can calculate a big time waste.


We can say that this thread is really time-expensive without producing a 
real impact. But we know that this mailing list is done to help the 
communication and not to calculate the time waste, so a thread like this 
is accepted.


I have put the links, it's sufficient to read the measures of the 
success to know that the aim of the project is not to produce only images.


Kind regards

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

2015-10-31 Thread Ilario Valdelli

On 31.10.2015 11:46, Fæ wrote:

On 31 October 2015 at 02:26, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
<rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:
...

And this money, more then 30'000 USD, come from WMF for the WLE 2014/15 and

Hang on. Could I have an independent reality check; is that really $7
per photograph?

Fae


Probably the best is to look directly in the grants:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/UG_BR-ER/Wiki_Loves_Monuments_Brasil_2015
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Wikimedia_Community_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/Wiki_Loves_Earth_Brasil_2015

30.000 is exact, but they are 30.000 Real which means 11.000 USD.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

2015-10-31 Thread Ilario Valdelli

Again, and again.

"Success for whom"?

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Wikimedia_Community_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/Wiki_Loves_Earth_Brasil_2015#Measures_of_success

The section "measure of success" reports:

at least 400 participants uploading one photograph or more;
at least 5,000 photos uploaded;
at least 15% of photos used on Wikipedia;
at least 50% of new users engagement during the contest;
at least 10 new articles about natural heritage sites in Brasil;
at least 10% of new user retention after 2 months of the contest.

Rodrigo reports:

Pictures uploaded: 4.443
Uploaders: 411
New users registered on Commons:  325
New users engagement: 79%
Pictures user on Wikipedia: 86 (2%)


Are the goals reached? Basically yes. When the project has been financed 
it was clear that the definition "success" was based on those measures.


There is no success for a specific person on an individual and personal 
criteria.


The user group of Brazil has not asked nothing special, this is a normal 
budget for any WLM or WLE in several countries.





On 31.10.2015 18:20, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton wrote:

quality of work.

Again "Success for whom?"






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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Rodrigo versus Rodrigo (was Re: WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers)

2015-10-31 Thread Ilario Valdelli

On 31.10.2015 21:13, Luiz Augusto wrote:

On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:


(...)

[5]some samples of local community interacting with Padula's "ideas":


https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/User_Group_Proposal
https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Rodrigo_Padula
follow the thread:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediabr-l/2014-August/015754.html




Please don't read this as I advocating for Padula. Quite the opposite, I'm
only suggesting to ignore the bad mood from Argenton and really focus on
measurements and governance points proposed by Fæ.




In your email you are making confusion between measures/governance and 
strategy.


The governance is focused to check that the strategy is applied well, 
the governance is not strategy itself.


For the PEG Padula has realized its project and reached the goals.

This result cannot be combined with a discussion of the conflicts 
happening in the Brazilian community, which should be probably discussed 
in another place.


Kind regards

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing the Wikimedia Affiliates mailing list

2015-10-21 Thread Ilario Valdelli

I will be simple like explaining it to a baby.

On 21.10.2015 16:29, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton wrote:

How about less provocations, attempts to breakdown the conversation with
violence, and support our idea in a civilized manner ? So " it's not good
to give publicly comments on the candidates.", why do you think that?


I think nothing. I administer a list where the entities involved in the 
process decided that.


Decision taken by these entities, I execute their decision.

I am, politely, addressing you to the right place to discuss it.



I am not understanding your affirmation, because you did not offer any
argument that corroborates to your statement.



Yes, I know, you do not understand.

Anyway we can continue "ad libitum" for the sample reason that you don't 
like it but it's not up to me to support your dislike.


Regards

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing the Wikimedia Affiliates mailing list

2015-10-21 Thread Ilario Valdelli
The spirit of the Wikimedia Movement I suppose is to be "respectful" of 
each person.


There is the freedom to be informed, there is the freedom of the opinion 
but these freedoms have limits and the limits are set where another 
freedom starts because I think that it's clear that there are other 
freedoms like the respect of the privacy.


Anyway I suggest you to make your proposal to person in charge of the 
selection, appointed every time the process starts, may be this person 
can take your comment in consideration.


Kind regards


On 21.10.2015 15:49, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton wrote:

That's the spirit of Wikimedia Movement, censorship...

I was talking about the list, you said: " it's not good to give publicly
comments on the candidates." and I asked why, you decided not answer.

And you know that AffCom screwed WMBR, so don't come with "If you are
member of a chapter, please ask internally to your chapter, not to me."
just to border me.







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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing the Wikimedia Affiliates mailing list

2015-10-21 Thread Ilario Valdelli
If you are member of a chapter, please ask internally to your chapter, 
not to me.


Before participating to this thread I was really clear: please address 
any comment of the affiliated selected board seats in another place. 
Here we are speaking of the mailing list.


It means that, following my coherence, I would strictly comply with the 
topic of this thread.


Kind regards

On 21.10.2015 15:18, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton wrote:

This do not answers any of my questions... opacity even in the talk, the
via will not make any difference.

On 21 October 2015 at 10:43, Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com> wrote:


https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate-selected_Board_seats


On 21.10.2015 14:09, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton wrote:





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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing the Wikimedia Affiliates mailing list

2015-10-21 Thread Ilario Valdelli

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate-selected_Board_seats

On 21.10.2015 14:09, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton wrote:

" it's not good to give publicly comments on the candidates." Why is that
so?
And candidates? To what?

On 21 October 2015 at 06:12, Ilario Valdelli <valde...@gmail.com> wrote:


Exactly, the problem is the manageability.

At the moment chapters list is more or less manageable because it needs
few subscribers per chapter.

The chapters mailing list must be kept "private" because it's not good to
give publicly comments on the candidates.

The need of privacy is crucial.

Migrating the chapters mailing list to an affiliates mailing list has no
sense, but there is a real need to have a place of discussion for
affiliates.

Considering the high number of affiliates I agree that it would be
difficult to assure a privacy.

If you remember well, this has been also the killing reason for internal
mailing list when private discussions were public immediately after the
first post.

Kind regards

On 21.10.2015 05:04, Risker wrote:


Snipping this separately.

There are almost 90 affiliates (including chapters and thematic
organizations), and this number is growing rapidly.  If each one can have
two or three members of this mailing list, we're talking hundreds of
subscribers. A list with that many subscribers is never going to really
remain private and confidential.  Anyone who is discussing anything
'sensitive' on a list with that many subscribers is, frankly, doing it in
the wrong place.  The existing chapters-l and internal-l mailing lists
used
to leak like sieves when they were in heavy use (and in addition the
information that was leaked was often distorted and incomplete).




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing the Wikimedia Affiliates mailing list

2015-10-21 Thread Ilario Valdelli

Exactly, the problem is the manageability.

At the moment chapters list is more or less manageable because it needs 
few subscribers per chapter.


The chapters mailing list must be kept "private" because it's not good 
to give publicly comments on the candidates.


The need of privacy is crucial.

Migrating the chapters mailing list to an affiliates mailing list has no 
sense, but there is a real need to have a place of discussion for 
affiliates.


Considering the high number of affiliates I agree that it would be 
difficult to assure a privacy.


If you remember well, this has been also the killing reason for internal 
mailing list when private discussions were public immediately after the 
first post.


Kind regards

On 21.10.2015 05:04, Risker wrote:

Snipping this separately.

There are almost 90 affiliates (including chapters and thematic
organizations), and this number is growing rapidly.  If each one can have
two or three members of this mailing list, we're talking hundreds of
subscribers. A list with that many subscribers is never going to really
remain private and confidential.  Anyone who is discussing anything
'sensitive' on a list with that many subscribers is, frankly, doing it in
the wrong place.  The existing chapters-l and internal-l mailing lists used
to leak like sieves when they were in heavy use (and in addition the
information that was leaked was often distorted and incomplete).




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing the Wikimedia Affiliates mailing list

2015-10-20 Thread Ilario Valdelli

On 20.10.2015 23:40, Romaine Wiki wrote:

I do question why some members from the community should be involved in
chapter/affiliates issues.
If affiliates want to communicate with each other, without interference
from individual users, they had no way to do such until this list was
created.

And there is no transparency reduction. The suggestion that with creating
this list the transparency is reduced is an illusion. If affiliates want to
communicate with only affiliates, they will found another way to do that
without doing that publicly, and that is much less transparent.




There is already a "closed" mailing list but it has a low traffic 
exactly for the point that it's "closed".


After several discussions within the community about the approach of 
"closed circle", Chapters would be "open" and "transparent" and would 
avoid that there is the feeling that in some places are happening 
machinations or conspiracies.


What is really missed is an "open" space where discussions about 
chapters can happen.


Kind regards

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing the Wikimedia Affiliates mailing list

2015-10-19 Thread Ilario Valdelli

Hi all,
I support Chris' arguments and I would add some points.

As administrator of the chapters mailing list I think that the best is 
to recover some "historical memory", which is never regrettable. 
Considering that we are going to celebrate several year of birthday of 
Wikipedia or of Wikimedia projects, I think that the "historical memory" 
is more than an asset.


I personally can support the creation of a mailing list like this for 
several reasons:


1) the chapters mailing list is closed for a specific reason
2) users groups cannot be accepted for a specif reason, even if there is 
a strong pressure
3) The chapters mailing list is hard to maintain because, as closed 
mailing list, the update and the verification requires time and 
workload, and this workload is manageable only if there is a limited 
number of subscriptions


The chapters mailing list exists *only* to assure a neutral (and this 
word makes sense) and a "demilitarized zone" to discuss and to announce 
the selection of the WMF's board members assigned to the chapters.


I would not open here a long discussion about the process or about the 
assignments to the chapters of these two seats (not all WMF board 
members are selected by the community), the chapters are considered as a 
stakeholder and the chapters asked to have a place like this. So please 
discuss in other places this item.


So the point 1) is justified.

The users groups cannot be accepted until the users groups cannot 
participate in this selection because the main aim of the mailing list 
is exactly that. So the point 2) is justified.


I personally can assure that to keep this place "neutral" there is a 
long verification of the eligibility of the members and it requires a 
lot of time.


The chapters mailing list has very low traffic because is used also to 
make some announcements (for instance the Wikimedia Conference) because 
not all chapters members follow Wikimedia-l.


Except these two utilization, there are nothing else.

At this point I would correct my sentence and I would say that: "I 
personally can support the creation of a mailing list" but I would add 
"not a twin of the chapters mailing list".


A closed and limited mailing list will be a simple replication of the 
chapters mailing list except the big workload to manage more 
subscriptions. It makes sense and can complete the chapters mailing list 
only if it is "open" and "transparent". Anyone who would open an user 
group can follow it, any chapters who would use the chapters mailing 
list for a use different to the main one, would be addressed to the open 
mailing list.


And as personal hint I suggest to keep it open because the management of 
a close mailing list with a high number of eligible subscribers may 
require a lot of time and verification.


Kind regards


On 19.10.2015 21:12, Chris Keating wrote:

Looking at the current (private) chapters' list, for at least a year 90%+
of the traffic has been announcements that were cross-posted to
Wikimedia-l. The other 10% is invitations and requests addressed to
"chapters people" that might be boring to most people on wikimedia-l but
could have been publically archived with no problem.

The last "private" thing to happen on that list was discussion of the 2014
Affiliate Selected Board Seats process - actually not so much the process
itself but how to deal with an intemperate email from someone from the
English Wikipedia Signpost who was threatening to write an article about
the process being an undemocratic sham.  Apart from that we are stretching
back into 2013 and the death throes of the WCA before anyone said anything
interesting on the list.

On the subject of email lists, internal-l which is meant to be "chapters
plus WMF staff" has had virtually no traffic for literally years. There was
at one point a limit on the number of representatives of chapters that
could be on internal-l (and IIRC on the chapters list) but that never
really served any purpose (it certainly didn't improve the signal to noise
ratio...)

What does all of this mean? I think it's pretty clear that broad-based
private-access lists aren't serving any purpose. My preferred option would
be to either ditch the Chapters mailing list or make it announce-only,
scrap Internal-l entirely, and have an "affiliates" list that is open.

Chris





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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Number of new User Groups

2015-10-18 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I personally think that the main concern, in this proliferation of 
groups, is an lack of the implementation of a "good governance".


A user group is like a body, it can born, can develop and can die.

At the moment there is an unclear guideline about the monitoring and the 
development of these groups: they can only born.


https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups

Basically the affiliation committee creates these entities, but don't 
monitor them and don't evaluate to retire (or the best would be to 
freeze) some old entities when they become essentially inactive or silent.


In this case the balance would be compensated and the proliferation of 
these groups would have a sense.


Kind regards

On 18.10.2015 16:48, Gregory Varnum wrote:

The Affiliations Committee (AffCom) has been preparing for the increased 
momentum since the user group model was implemented, and it follows a pattern 
that we’ve been seeing over the past couple of years. In 2013, we approved 10 
user groups, last year we approved 19, and so far this year we have approved 
around 20. That number will likely increase next year. This growing momentum is 
why we have continued to tweak the approval process to be faster and able to 
handle the growing momentum. So, from our perspective, this is something we 
have been preparing for from the start, and not a surprise.

Personally, I think further complicating affiliate classifications is a bad 
idea. “Small” and “larger” are very culturally relative, varies across the 
models (there are user groups “larger” than chapters), changes over time, and 
implies that “large” affiliates do work “small” affiliates cannot, when we 
continue to see that is in fact not the case at all. The current criteria for 
WMCON is active and inactive, which seems far more appropriate. Additionally, 
dividing them will not save much money, if any, as there would still presumably 
be a gathering for the “small” affiliates.

I agree with Leigh and others that affiliates should receive more support, but 
I do not think those efforts will be served well by further dividing them.

-greg (User:Varnent)
Vice Chair, Wikimedia Affiliations Committee




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-05 Thread Ilario Valdelli
> >> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards,
> > >>
> > >> Pavel Richter
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-04 Thread Ilario Valdelli

On 04.10.2015 19:48, Pavel Richter wrote:

2015-10-04 17:42 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard <anthe...@yahoo.com>:


Le 04/10/15 16:15, Theo10011 a écrit :
Now, beside head rolling... (uh, ouch :)) what do you suggest to fix that ?



So, what happened? The Wikimania committee came to the conclusion that the
current process to select the next Wikimania host is broken (and I think
the committee was right about that). So something needed to happen - and
the committee did something that we
​see ​
not often enough in Wikimedia-land: *they made a decision*.


This is good.

But I think that the main point to fix is that a decision is valid as 
soon it is communicated.


At the moment it does not seem that the local communities were informed 
in order to know that the process was broken.


Kind regards

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

2015-08-18 Thread Ilario Valdelli

Yes it can be possible without touching the fundraising's banner.

The banner can be put in the Mediawiki:sitenotice in each project and 
can cohabitate with the fundraising's banner.


The real problem is that a small banner can have only a limited effect.

On 18.08.2015 23:31, Platonides wrote:


Given that they are going to take you banner time, maybe they would be 
possible to be convinced to include a small WLM ad in the donation 
page?


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Board of Trustees Chair and Vice Chair positions

2015-07-16 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Wow does it mean that I spoke in the lift with the new president 30 minutes
after his election without knowing to speak with the new president?
Il 16/Lug/2015 17:04, Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org ha
scritto:

 Hello Everyone

 I am happy to inform you that the Board has unanimously appointed a new
 Chair and Vice Chair of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees.

 Patricio Lorente will be the new Chair and Alice Wiegand will be the new
 Vice-Chair. Both have several.years of experience on the board and we are
 confident that they will help the board grow and be successful in the
 coming years.

 Personally I am looking forward to helping them get acquainted with their
 new role in the coming months as my time on the Wikimedia Board ends in
 December.

 I hope you can join me in congratulating them on their new position and
 wish them success in the challenges facing them.

 Jan-Bart de Vreede
 Wikimedia Board of Trustees
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedias among Top 10

2015-07-07 Thread Ilario Valdelli
The best evaluation is to understand the evolution and the trend.

In the last months in waray for instance I have seen less than 10 edits in
the overall project in one month.

This is not revitalization. I agree with the enthusiasm of the community
members but I am personally in favor of comparison of numbers in a long
time perspective.

I am happy to see more data and to monitor them to know if this is a model
to be replied but the numbers are not really supportive.

Regards
Il 07/Lug/2015 13:12, Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se ha
scritto:

 What gives you the right to be judgemental how they act on their version?
 Is that your idea of the movement values and vision, to talk badly of other
 efforts?

 and I know for a fact they did not to this to get into this list you are
 upset of. It is untrue when you state like this which have inflated
 article counts

 And I also know as a fact they are very happy with this effort because it
 has energized their small community. You talk of big increased I think of
 how many communities of this size that implodes  which is a more common
 scenario.

 As I have already stated I have no problem that you (and others) have
 another view of the benefits of botgenrated arciels.

 But please be supportive to the very small communities, who do their best
 to survive and grow

 Anders

 Craig Franklin skrev den 2015-07-07 12:21:

 There is already a consensus on enwiki (please, hold your rotten tomatoes)
 that projects like this which have inflated article counts due to
 extensive
 botting rather than through having a lively community not be included on
 the main page.  I think a lot of the comments here about a huge article
 count attracting communities to curate that content are somewhat
 disingenous, it seems that despite having lots of articles there is only
 one active user on Waray Wikipedia, who is responsible for more than 99%
 of
 total edits.  As Milos has alluded to, number of articles is a poor
 metric for understanding how useful a particular project is to speakers of
 that language.

 Speaking here as a speaker of a minority language myself, I understand the
 temptation of quickly creating lots of articles to have some sort of
 demonstrable impact, and I believe there is a place for some bot
 generation
 of articles on any project.  But after hitting Random a few times on
 Waray, and seeing what came back, I'm not really sure how this is a more
 useful resource for speakers of the language than just going into Wikidata
 with the interface set to Waray.  I believe the time honoured, if slower
 way of creating a Wikipedia, lovingly handcrafting it article by article,
 is far more likely to lead to a positive impact for people.

 Cheers,
 Craig



 On 7 July 2015 at 07:55, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote:

  Indeed, as Josh points out, there are also costs (even if only perceived
 or
 reputational costs) to populating a tiny Wikipedia with next to no active
 editors with hundreds of thousands of bot-generated stubs.  Is having
 stubs
 on all French communes in Cebuano better than having nothing in Cebuano?
 Probably, yes.  And by increasing pageviews (which is measurable), one
 increases the likelihood of organic conversion of readers into editors
 (which is *still* the most effective way to make Wikipedians, albeit not
 the easiest to directly control).

 But, again as Josh says, that increase in *editorship* is yet to be
 attained.  The Waray Wikipedia (btw, Waray-Waray is, it turns out,
 objectionable to Waray speakers, and is mildly derogatory) is still
 largely
 edited by *one* committed individual, User:JinJian[1], as the stats
 plainly
 show.  Given that the bot was run *with* JinJian's consent, there can be
 no
 objection to its operation.

 As Milos suggests, there seems to be an emotional response to those
 Wikipedias appearing in the top 10 view.  This should be divorced from
 those communities' sovereign decisions to run or not run the bot.  If the
 top 10 inclusion truly bothers people, and there's a strong consensus
 that
 Wikipedias largely populated by bot-generated stubs should not be
 included, a discussion could be had on what this view *should* mean,
 precisely, if not plainly the top 10 Wikipedias by article count.  And
 whatever refined definition is agreed upon (e.g. thresholds like a
 minimum
 number of active editors, or some formula involving the article depth
 figure, or whatever) can then be made the basis for the list, or indeed,
 for a different list, that would be more satisfying for those who are
 displeased with being under these Wikipedias on the list.

 A.

 [1] http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaWAR.htm#wikipedians

 On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Josh Lim jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com
 wrote:

  I can probably speak for those communities.  On the whole, the logic
 behind the Lsjbot experiment was simple: build it and they will come.

 So far though, this hasn’t happened.  We from the Tagalog 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedias among Top 10

2015-07-07 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Thanks to have summarized my position.

As speaker than more than one minor language I agree that there is no sense
to inflate articles over the possibility of the small community to manage
them. Not in opposition of automated generated articles but having in my
hands the experience of project management of IT where the big challenge is
not to produce a software but to keep it updated and efficient.
Il 07/Lug/2015 12:22, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net ha
scritto:

 There is already a consensus on enwiki (please, hold your rotten tomatoes)
 that projects like this which have inflated article counts due to extensive
 botting rather than through having a lively community not be included on
 the main page.  I think a lot of the comments here about a huge article
 count attracting communities to curate that content are somewhat
 disingenous, it seems that despite having lots of articles there is only
 one active user on Waray Wikipedia, who is responsible for more than 99% of
 total edits.  As Milos has alluded to, number of articles is a poor
 metric for understanding how useful a particular project is to speakers of
 that language.

 Speaking here as a speaker of a minority language myself, I understand the
 temptation of quickly creating lots of articles to have some sort of
 demonstrable impact, and I believe there is a place for some bot generation
 of articles on any project.  But after hitting Random a few times on
 Waray, and seeing what came back, I'm not really sure how this is a more
 useful resource for speakers of the language than just going into Wikidata
 with the interface set to Waray.  I believe the time honoured, if slower
 way of creating a Wikipedia, lovingly handcrafting it article by article,
 is far more likely to lead to a positive impact for people.

 Cheers,
 Craig



 On 7 July 2015 at 07:55, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote:

  Indeed, as Josh points out, there are also costs (even if only perceived
 or
  reputational costs) to populating a tiny Wikipedia with next to no active
  editors with hundreds of thousands of bot-generated stubs.  Is having
 stubs
  on all French communes in Cebuano better than having nothing in Cebuano?
  Probably, yes.  And by increasing pageviews (which is measurable), one
  increases the likelihood of organic conversion of readers into editors
  (which is *still* the most effective way to make Wikipedians, albeit not
  the easiest to directly control).
 
  But, again as Josh says, that increase in *editorship* is yet to be
  attained.  The Waray Wikipedia (btw, Waray-Waray is, it turns out,
  objectionable to Waray speakers, and is mildly derogatory) is still
 largely
  edited by *one* committed individual, User:JinJian[1], as the stats
 plainly
  show.  Given that the bot was run *with* JinJian's consent, there can be
 no
  objection to its operation.
 
  As Milos suggests, there seems to be an emotional response to those
  Wikipedias appearing in the top 10 view.  This should be divorced from
  those communities' sovereign decisions to run or not run the bot.  If the
  top 10 inclusion truly bothers people, and there's a strong consensus
 that
  Wikipedias largely populated by bot-generated stubs should not be
  included, a discussion could be had on what this view *should* mean,
  precisely, if not plainly the top 10 Wikipedias by article count.  And
  whatever refined definition is agreed upon (e.g. thresholds like a
 minimum
  number of active editors, or some formula involving the article depth
  figure, or whatever) can then be made the basis for the list, or indeed,
  for a different list, that would be more satisfying for those who are
  displeased with being under these Wikipedias on the list.
 
 A.
 
  [1] http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaWAR.htm#wikipedians
 
  On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Josh Lim jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
   I can probably speak for those communities.  On the whole, the logic
   behind the Lsjbot experiment was simple: build it and they will come.
  
   So far though, this hasn’t happened.  We from the Tagalog Wikipedia
 were
   also approached for this experiment, but we know what happens when
   bot-generated articles are made: the community is overwhelmed.  Out of
  that
   fear, we declined to participate.
  
   One of the concerns some editors in the Philippines have (and these are
   sentiments I share) is that these two Wikipedias turn us into a
   laughingstock, willing to increase article numbers at any cost.  At one
   point, the Cebuano Wikipedia was described as a Wikipedia of French
   communes, not content relevant to Cebu or Cebuanos.  I don’t think we’d
   like that with other Wikipedias in the Philippines or elsewhere.
  
   Regards,
  
   Josh
  
Wiadomość napisana przez WereSpielChequers 
  werespielchequ...@gmail.com
   w dniu 6 lip 2015, o godz. 04:52:
   
These are fascinating experiments, I hope that the Waray-waray and
   Cebuano
communities 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedias among Top 10

2015-07-06 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Yes, and in this case I am saying that the bot populated Wikipedias are
bad products because qualitatively poor, instead of an architecture of a
data population and a creation of articles through Wikidata or through a
central repository.

Basically it's for a control of the content.

A bot populated article can widespread an error or an outdated information
in all web pages if there is not control of the community, instead a
central repository like Wikidata facilitates this control.

The same concept of Wikipedia is in discussion.

It's an encyclopedia, but another encyclopedia (may we can it botpedia?).

Regards

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hoi,
 When people do not edit Wikipedia we are talking about a situation that
 does not exist.

 I wholeheartedly disagree with you as you mistake the process with the
 product. Our aim is to produce a product and we should endeavour to provide
 it in a SMART way.  We lose out when we do not do the best we can. Our best
 is NOT sitting on our hands keeping information that is available to
 ourselves for secondary reasons. Yes, we can write articles and yes they
 may be better but as long as we do not provide information we do a half
 arsed job. A job that is qualitatively and quantitatively inferior.
 Thanks,
   GerardM

 On 6 July 2015 at 11:42, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote:

  If people don't edit Wikipedia, Wikipedia would not exist.
 
  As I have said the IT tools to support community are welcome, the IT
 tools
  to populate a wikipedia like a population of a database should not be
  welcome in Wikipedia, they are more appropriated for Wikidata where the
  integration with Wikipedia is done in a right manner and are at the
 service
  of the overall communities.
 
  Regards
 
  On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Gerard Meijssen 
  gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
   Hoi,
   I would not say that the Encyclopaedia Britannica is NOT an
  encyclopaedia.
  
   The objective of Wikipedia is EXACTLY that it is read. Not that it is
   edited.
  
   You can argue all you like against bot generated articles but in the
  final
   analysis it is doing a much better job than not providing information.
   Arguably it is not needed to save them as articles because it is
 possible
   to generate them on the fly based on information from Wikidata and
 cache
   the results but that is EXACTLY the kind of technology that would bring
   missing information to any Wikipedia without distorting the number of
   articles for people who only care about editors and editing. It is
  EXACTLY
   the kind of technology I would welcome the WMF to explore.
   Thanks,
 GerardM
  
   On 6 July 2015 at 11:09, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote:
  
https://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinaurog:ActiveUsers
https://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espesyal:ActiveUsers
   
An encyclopedia in the first 10 places without a community is it an
encyclopedia?
   
Is the community important to say that wikipedia is wikipedia? In
 this
   case
these projects are demonstrating that Wikipedia can renounce to one
 of
   its
pilaster.
   
In my opinion the impact of Waray Waray or of Cebuan is a
 demonstration
that any strange language can have a big traffic if it is placed in
  the
first places of the ranking because it will be best ranked in search
engines.
   
But an impact is something that produces effects and
  dissemination. I
don't see impact because the bot has increased only one measure (page
   view)
and nothing else.
   
If the impact must be produced with SEO, the parameters of
 evaluations
   must
change.
   
It is different when a bot is running in an encyclopedia supported
 by a
mature community, because the articles will be improved in quality
  and
will generate more and more effects.
   
Regards
   
   
   
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Gerard Meijssen 
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:
   
 Hoi,
 How do you know that there is no impact ?

 https://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesPageViewsMonthlyCombined.htm
   shows
 clearly how much Cebuano has grown considerably in page views. The
  same
is
 true for Waray Waray. Compare it to languages with a similar number
  of
 speakers. Please explain how this is not a real impact !
 Thanks,
   GerardM

 On 6 July 2015 at 10:20, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  This is an example about how to produce a formal impact
 without a
 real
  impact.
 
 
 
  On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Salvador A 
 salvador1...@gmail.com
  
 wrote:
 
   Hi!
  
   I just I noticed that Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedia are
  inside
the
  list
   of the 10 Wikipedias with more articles.[1] It seems it
 happened
during
   this weekend. Maybe in the case of Waray Wikipedia happened

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedias among Top 10

2015-07-06 Thread Ilario Valdelli
https://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinaurog:ActiveUsers
https://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espesyal:ActiveUsers

An encyclopedia in the first 10 places without a community is it an
encyclopedia?

Is the community important to say that wikipedia is wikipedia? In this case
these projects are demonstrating that Wikipedia can renounce to one of its
pilaster.

In my opinion the impact of Waray Waray or of Cebuan is a demonstration
that any strange language can have a big traffic if it is placed in the
first places of the ranking because it will be best ranked in search
engines.

But an impact is something that produces effects and dissemination. I
don't see impact because the bot has increased only one measure (page view)
and nothing else.

If the impact must be produced with SEO, the parameters of evaluations must
change.

It is different when a bot is running in an encyclopedia supported by a
mature community, because the articles will be improved in quality and
will generate more and more effects.

Regards



On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hoi,
 How do you know that there is no impact ?

 https://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesPageViewsMonthlyCombined.htm shows
 clearly how much Cebuano has grown considerably in page views. The same is
 true for Waray Waray. Compare it to languages with a similar number of
 speakers. Please explain how this is not a real impact !
 Thanks,
   GerardM

 On 6 July 2015 at 10:20, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote:

  This is an example about how to produce a formal impact without a
 real
  impact.
 
 
 
  On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Salvador A salvador1...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   Hi!
  
   I just I noticed that Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedia are inside the
  list
   of the 10 Wikipedias with more articles.[1] It seems it happened during
   this weekend. Maybe in the case of Waray Wikipedia happened a little
   before. Somebody knows when did it was exactly? Did I miss a thread
   announcing this?
  
   Waray-waray is now the 6th place and Cebuano has surpassed it.wiki and
   es.wiki and gained the place number 8, mainly due to Lsjbot work.[2]
   Definitely a milestone in Wikipedia and bots history.
  
   [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias
   [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsjbot
  
  
   --
   *Salvador Alcántar*
   *@salvador_alc*
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Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedias among Top 10

2015-07-06 Thread Ilario Valdelli
This is an example about how to produce a formal impact without a real
impact.



On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Salvador A salvador1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi!

 I just I noticed that Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedia are inside the list
 of the 10 Wikipedias with more articles.[1] It seems it happened during
 this weekend. Maybe in the case of Waray Wikipedia happened a little
 before. Somebody knows when did it was exactly? Did I miss a thread
 announcing this?

 Waray-waray is now the 6th place and Cebuano has surpassed it.wiki and
 es.wiki and gained the place number 8, mainly due to Lsjbot work.[2]
 Definitely a milestone in Wikipedia and bots history.

 [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias
 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsjbot


 --
 *Salvador Alcántar*
 *@salvador_alc*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedias among Top 10

2015-07-06 Thread Ilario Valdelli
If people don't edit Wikipedia, Wikipedia would not exist.

As I have said the IT tools to support community are welcome, the IT tools
to populate a wikipedia like a population of a database should not be
welcome in Wikipedia, they are more appropriated for Wikidata where the
integration with Wikipedia is done in a right manner and are at the service
of the overall communities.

Regards

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hoi,
 I would not say that the Encyclopaedia Britannica is NOT an encyclopaedia.

 The objective of Wikipedia is EXACTLY that it is read. Not that it is
 edited.

 You can argue all you like against bot generated articles but in the final
 analysis it is doing a much better job than not providing information.
 Arguably it is not needed to save them as articles because it is possible
 to generate them on the fly based on information from Wikidata and cache
 the results but that is EXACTLY the kind of technology that would bring
 missing information to any Wikipedia without distorting the number of
 articles for people who only care about editors and editing. It is EXACTLY
 the kind of technology I would welcome the WMF to explore.
 Thanks,
   GerardM

 On 6 July 2015 at 11:09, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote:

  https://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinaurog:ActiveUsers
  https://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espesyal:ActiveUsers
 
  An encyclopedia in the first 10 places without a community is it an
  encyclopedia?
 
  Is the community important to say that wikipedia is wikipedia? In this
 case
  these projects are demonstrating that Wikipedia can renounce to one of
 its
  pilaster.
 
  In my opinion the impact of Waray Waray or of Cebuan is a demonstration
  that any strange language can have a big traffic if it is placed in the
  first places of the ranking because it will be best ranked in search
  engines.
 
  But an impact is something that produces effects and dissemination. I
  don't see impact because the bot has increased only one measure (page
 view)
  and nothing else.
 
  If the impact must be produced with SEO, the parameters of evaluations
 must
  change.
 
  It is different when a bot is running in an encyclopedia supported by a
  mature community, because the articles will be improved in quality and
  will generate more and more effects.
 
  Regards
 
 
 
  On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Gerard Meijssen 
  gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
   Hoi,
   How do you know that there is no impact ?
  
   https://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesPageViewsMonthlyCombined.htm
 shows
   clearly how much Cebuano has grown considerably in page views. The same
  is
   true for Waray Waray. Compare it to languages with a similar number of
   speakers. Please explain how this is not a real impact !
   Thanks,
 GerardM
  
   On 6 July 2015 at 10:20, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote:
  
This is an example about how to produce a formal impact without a
   real
impact.
   
   
   
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Salvador A salvador1...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   
 Hi!

 I just I noticed that Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedia are inside
  the
list
 of the 10 Wikipedias with more articles.[1] It seems it happened
  during
 this weekend. Maybe in the case of Waray Wikipedia happened a
 little
 before. Somebody knows when did it was exactly? Did I miss a thread
 announcing this?

 Waray-waray is now the 6th place and Cebuano has surpassed it.wiki
  and
 es.wiki and gained the place number 8, mainly due to Lsjbot
 work.[2]
 Definitely a milestone in Wikipedia and bots history.

 [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias
 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsjbot


 --
 *Salvador Alcántar*
 *@salvador_alc*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedias among Top 10

2015-07-06 Thread Ilario Valdelli
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cebuano and Waray-waray Wikipedias among Top 10

2015-07-06 Thread Ilario Valdelli

On 07.07.2015 01:14, Asaf Bartov wrote:

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Richard Symonds 
richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:


Are there any Cebuano or Waray community members on the list to offer an
opinion?


2. separate the top 10 issue that was the original trigger for this
renewed discussion, and suggest a constructive direction in which that
anxiety could be fruitfully addressed, quite apart from whether and which
communities decide to employ Lsjbot to populate their wikis.

I hope that's clearer now.

A.


I don't have any objection in this point as I have no objection in other 
languages that have increased a lot their number of articles running bots.


At the opposite I am asking to look forward and to implement something 
that can be helpful for any linguistic projects (and surely also for 
Cebuan and Waray where it seems that few members have in charge the big 
workload to keep the pages updated).


Regards

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