Re: [Wikimedia-l] Free Basics

2016-01-01 Thread Kim Bruning
Hi Milos, 
Happy new year to you! 

I thought your mail to the list was very thoughtful.
I've replied inline below. 

On Fri, Jan 01, 2016 at 06:50:16AM +0100, Milos Rancic wrote:
> I don't think the pure form of net-neutrality is sustainable. Many
> businesses already have deals with other businesses to provide
> something for free or "for free" or for reduced price via their
> infrastructure. 

Hmm, this example has little to do with net neutrality as I understand
it though. 

Net neutrality means that you pay your ISP to allow you to send and
receive packets to/from anyone without discrimination to source or
destination. (In other words you're paying for actual internet access
without let or hindrance).

Previously this is how the market worked.

Without going into details here, many sources tell us that the
market is now threatening to shift towards a winner-takes-all walled
garden model. (if not already there)

It's going to be a challenge to keep open source and open content
operating and relevant in such an increasingly hostile environment this
coming decade.

> Neither I think the initiative will really create a permanent
> underclass. People in underdeveloped regions will eventually become
> richer and they won't need this kind of service.

We can ask them whether they want to continue having such a service at
any time. Or we can set some participation threshold above which we
would accept a petition to stop. (It is always wise to have
pre-prepared go/no-go safety checks at particular points in time)

> * Finally, we belong to the movement which promotes net neutrality as
> one of the core values. No matter how realistic it is, we should
> support it. Wikipedia Zero is not net-neutral, but Wikimedia projects
> are of such significance that it could be tolerated. Going further
> into abandoning that principle would create definite divide between us
> and the rest of our global super-movement.

*Nod* We have to beware of fouling our own nest. Even though Wikipedia
zero appears to help our own cause now, we need to be careful we don't
hurt the people we depend on in turn.

People such as the open source community and internet standards
organisations might prove quite sensitive to changing Internet rules.
We should put our ears to the ground and listen carefully to what
representatives of these groups may be saying to us.

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA

2015-03-13 Thread Kim Bruning

I think that making us not-a-source-of-referred-traffic might
be a  good thing.  (It disincentivises those
who should be disincentivised, while not harming
anyone else)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 09:21:57AM -0700, Pete Forsyth wrote:
 There's a relevant research project outlined on Meta, about HTTPS:
 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikimedia_referrer_policy
 
 Here's the nutshell description:
 
 Since we started switching to HTTPS and an increasing portion of inbound
 traffic happens over SSL, Wikimedia sites stopped advertising themselves as
 sources of referred traffic to external sites. While this is a literal
 implication of HTTPS, it means that Wikimedia's impact on traffic directed
 to other sites is becoming largely invisible: *is Wikimedia turning into a
 large source of dark traffic?* I review a use case (traffic directed to
 CrossRef) and discuss how other top web properties deal with this issue by
 adopting a so-called Referrer Policy.
 
 I don't know anything about this beyond what I've read on Meta, but I think
 it offers some useful background for this discussion.
 
 Pete
 --
 Pete Forsyth
 [[User:Peteforsyth]] on English Wikipedia, Wikisource, Commons, etc.
 
 On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Probably a good time for everyone to know about EFF's HTTPS Everywhere:
 
  HTTPS Everywhere is a Firefox, Chrome, and Opera extension that encrypts
  your communications with many major websites, making your browsing more
  secure. Encrypt the web: Install HTTPS Everywhere today.
 
  https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
 
 
 
  On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Johan J??nsson brevlis...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
   2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles cometsty...@gmail.com:
  
for an organization taking on the NSA  for spying..why are we using
https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
running with our tail between our legs?
   
  
   (For non-technical readers: the HTTP protocol is the normal way to send
   around information on the web. HTTPS is the secure way of sending said
   information, adding encryption among other things, to avoid
  eavesdropping.)
  
   HTTP traffic can easily be tracked by people sharing the same network, by
   your Internet service provider and so on. If one cares about privacy,
  HTTPS
   is always important. It's worth noting that the NSA is not the only
   government agency in the world. I'd be even more worried about a number
  of
   countries where there would be little chance to fight the intruding party
   in the courtroom.
  
   Side note: you could probably track most HTTPS traffic to Wikipedia as
   well, even if you're not the NSA. Normally you would see that the user
  has
   accessed Wikipedia, but not which article. A way around that would be to
   let a spider (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_crawler) track the byte
   size of Wikipedia articles, which should be individual enough as soon as
   images are involved and compare it to the size of the page the user just
   accessed. If two articles happen to be of exactly the same size, compare
   with incoming and outgoing wiki links and see if the user accessed any
  page
   linking to or linked from one the articles to determine which one. But it
   would at least take some sort of effort, and wouldn't be perfect.
  
   //Johan J??nsson
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2015-01-07 Thread Kim Bruning


Found another article calling out Wikipedia. Are there also
articles praising us? :-)


https://medium.com/backchannel/less-than-zero-199bcb05a868

I do think that wikipedia zero is useful in the short term. I'm
a bit worried about the long term though. 

Question: How do you predict wikipedia zero's effect on the internet in
the long term? There are clearly going to be both positive and
negative effects. Denying either is silly. What can we do to
strengthen the positive effects, and how do we mitigate the
negative?

At what thresholds would wikipedia zero be stopped in some
country and at what thresholds promoted? Are there
documents/analysis online?

sincerely,
Kim

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:07:02PM +0100, Kim Bruning wrote:
 
 Washington post article
   
 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/
 
 sincerely,
   Kim
 
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[Wikimedia-l] Bharti Airtel to charge for using VOIP services Re: WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-12-27 Thread Kim Bruning

Net Neutrality issues cropping up in india now, VOIP providers are first to be 
targeted.. 


http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/12/24/bharti-airtel-rates-idINKBN0K20SU20141224

If they can charge for VOIP or for other things, it means there is also nothing 
stopping providers
in India from charging for wikipedia either. The reason they haven't done it 
yet, is just because
they haven't thought of it yet. 

Due to our current activities in India, we may be in a bit of a tricky 
situation trying to prevent
afforementioned scenario.

We'll have to see how this progresses in practice.

sincerely,
Kim

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:07:02PM +0100, Kim Bruning wrote:
 
 Washington post article
   
 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/
 
 sincerely,
   Kim
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Google Groups: You've been added to Gender Gap

2014-12-05 Thread Kim Bruning

On Fri, Dec 05, 2014 at 10:26:19PM +0100, Thyge wrote:
 I reported the group for spamming. Adding me and others without our consent
 and sending unsolicited emails must be stopped somehow.



Idem here. Was listed, unsubscribed, reported for spamming.


sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Google Groups: You've been added to Gender Gap

2014-12-05 Thread Kim Bruning
On Sat, Dec 06, 2014 at 01:22:00AM +0800, Russavia wrote:
 Hi all
 
 If you receive an email purporting to be from myself and it's not from this
 email addy (and with an IINET IP), you can be assured it is not myself. 

Glad to hear it wasn't you!

 If I wanted to troll you all, you all know that I have more elaborate
 ways of doing this if I really wanted to do that. :)

Yes, indeed you do. :-P

sincerely
Kim

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-12-02 Thread Kim Bruning
That's very interesting.
However, as stated, in .nl (and SEPA) one pays people using IBAN
accounts.

One not-pays people using not-IBAN.

iDeal is a handy dandy web interface to do (essentially) IBAN transfers.

Them's the options; whether I personally like them or not.[*] 

c'est tout!

Incidentally, for a SEPA area bank transfer, at a typical .nl bank, you
fill in the person's name, their IBAN Account Number [**], and the
amount; then click send. [***].  []

Alternately, iDeal fills this out for you, and you just click
Approve.  []

Re:Fraud: one bank I work for has the policy to hunt down, find, and
prosecute every single fraud at all costs, and to the fullest extent
possible under law. They do so as a matter of honour. Suffice to say
this does tend to reduce the incidence of fraud in the country O:-) 

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

[*] Actually I kinda like these options; but I do live just ~2 hours from
Brussels, so things tend to work well for me.  YMMV for people who live in
some island kingdom or what have you O:-)
[**] International Bank Account Number account number; brought to you
by the department of redundancy department.
[***] For WMF I'd love it if they also ticked repeat monthly ;-)
[] Not counting security procedures. :-P


On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 12:31:23AM -0500, Risker wrote:
 Ummm.  We have all kinds of ways for people to donate, and the process for
 transferring is pretty clear.  Having been in a situation where I had to
 make bank transfers, I felt honestly like I was handing over the keys to
 the kingdom just for the right to pay someone money: far more personal
 information was required than is needed for any other means of payment that
 I've ever used.  Banks in Canada regularly call their customers for
 transactions under $5 because fraud is so common - and that is with chip
 cards and PINs.
 
 Risker
 
 
 
 On 1 December 2014 at 00:08, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Hoi,
  IMHO we need to advertise how people can transfer money to us. It requires
  an account number. Now if the USA is not able to accommodate this, FINE,
  let us do it in Europe at least..
 
  WHAT AM I MISSING HERE ?
  Thanks,
 GerardM
 
  On 1 December 2014 at 03:38, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com wrote:
 
   On 11/30/2014 1:14 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
  
   Hoi,
   An IBAN number is NOT a credit card ... You need a ping number in
   combination with some smart card functionality in order to make it
  work..
   The combination generates a number that is always different..
  
   You seem to have misunderstood the scenario I laid out. I'm not talking
   about people using the IBAN to steal money out of a Wikimedia account, I
   depend on the bank to have security robust enough to prevent that. The
   scenario I'm discussing involves people using the IBAN to fraudulently
  pay
   money to Wikimedia from someone else's account, such as a credit card.
  That
   account does not necessarily have an IBAN or chip-and-pin security, and
  at
   any rate whatever security it has was already breached. The payment would
   just be a method for the fraudsters to verify the success of the breach.
   The result would be added costs to Wikimedia and to the financial
   institutions involved, in order to identify and reverse the fraudulent
   transactions.
  
   To respond to some of the other questions raised about my scenario:
  
   This was a risk scenario I presented to answer the question, How can
   posting a bank account number lead to fraud? It may or may not have
  been a
   factor in the decision to not publicly post the IBAN, I don't know.
  
   I'm also not suggesting that this scenario is unique to IBAN, it could
   affect any type of account number that accepts payments (for example,
   accounts you might have for various utility services, such as water,
   electricity, telephone, or internet). It's also possible thru PayPal, of
   course, and that's the reason for having a $1 minimum donation
  requirement,
   among other protections. I don't know if there are difficulties with
   establishing comparable security around the IBAN, or if it's more a
  matter
   of a cost-benefit analysis indicating that it's worth the resources to
  deal
   with this for donations via Wikimedia's online payment form, but not for
   donations directly to Wikimedia's bank account.
  
   Also, I'm no expert on EU regulations, but I do observe that according to
   the European Payments Council, it seems payees receiving SEPA credit
   transfers are advised to communicate the IBAN only where necessary:
   http://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/index.cfm/sepa-credit-
   transfer/iban-and-bic/ (and likewise for payers making direct debit
   payments). It may simply be that the fundraising team has been advised
  that
   this is more consistent with providing the IBAN upon request, rather than
   posting it on the website. Not to disparage what may be common practice
  at
   other

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Issue on Dutch Wikipedia in relation to BLP violating images

2014-12-01 Thread Kim Bruning

Hmmm, 

Is that the fourth or the fifth wiki you are now indeffed from ? ;-)
(I was looking up your illustrious history while chatting with you,
and I admit I lost count somewhere along the way :-P [*])

Checking up on the nl.wikipedia discussions you had, I do agree
that the environment turned toxic pretty quickly ... once 
you started throwing around insults like confetti. ;-)

You were trying to get indeffed on purpose, right!?
Only sane explanation. 

Wikis are like pokemon, gotta get indeffed from them all!

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

[*] NSFL WARNING: do not look up why Russavia was decratted on
Commons: NSFL WARNING [**]
[**] I'm not entirely sure why they were *merely* decratted.
This might be a fatal flaw in commons. 


On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 05:23:30AM +0800, Russavia wrote:
 Michel,
 
 I agree the atmosphere there is extremely toxic.
 
 For the record, I have now been indefinitely blocked on Dutch Wikipedia for
 raising serious concerns on Commons about one of their clique. Concerns
 which involved incontrovertible evidence that they have been accessing
 materials on Commons which was deleted due to privacy concerns and then
 passed around to others who wouldn't otherwise have that access.
 
 The unfunny part about it all, is that this only came to light after I
 publicly told MoiraMoira that given it was me who deleted privacy related
 images on Commons as they related to her, she should have more
 understanding on issues when subjects of articles have complaints about
 images of themselves. It then lead to that evidence being provided to me
 within minutes. The person who provided me the evidence has also been
 indefinitely blocked on Dutch Wikipedia, ostensibly for providing me with
 the evidence which included the person's first name -- a first name that
 was well known to me by way of discussion many years ago when we
 introduced ourselves privately on IRC.
 
 So, I agree wholeheartedly about their abusive and toxic environment, and
 don't really take any notice to those on there who call me a troll, for it
 is those people on Dutch Wikipedia who are playing unacceptable games in
 outright violation of the WMF Board resolution. They think they are
 punishing me, they are not; they are punishing the subject of the article.
 
 Regards,
 
 Russavia
 
 
 On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 4:46 AM, Michel Vuijlsteke wikipe...@zog.org
 wrote:
 
  Quick and easy: don't bother with the Dutch Wikipedia. It is one of the
  more toxic environments on the internet. :)
 
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-26 Thread Kim Bruning
Just following up,

Has WMNL now received the sought information?

sincerely,
Kim Bruning


On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 08:42:01AM +0100, Lodewijk wrote:
 It seems everyone agrees it is an important method (although I'm not 100%
 sure that the US based people running the fundraiser fully comprehend - I
 am assuming this is the case), but there seems to be some reason why the
 WMF chooses to not make this option easily available. A reason they choose
 not to disclose, but to be fuzzy about. I'm very sorry about this, and as
 Liam says, this fits in a trend with the Russian people no longer being
 allowed to donate. Maybe the two are connected, but this is all
 speculation.
 
 I'm sorry to see these steps back from the more open attitude there was a
 few years back. It feels very much that we are, as a community, being fed
 canned press answers. But then, maybe there's a real need for that and
 there's a huge legal threat to making it easy to donate through bank
 transfer that cannot be disclosed...
 
 Best,
 Lodewijk
 
 On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 1:34 AM, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote:
 
 
  To amplify:
 
  Paying (business) taxes in The Netherlands now pretty much requires
  electronic payment to an IBAN Account; a.k.a. it is (now) the standard,
  default, baseline way to make payments at all.
 
  After registering a business, the very next action is to open an (IBAN)
  account. All extant dutch accounts that predate IBAN have been converted
  to IBAN. All administration systems (must(!)) support IBAN.
 
  If you want to do business in the Netherlands, you need to support IBAN.
 
  Note that many (most?) dutch citizens do not have credit cards or paypal
  accounts.
 
  Further, IBAN is standardized throughout the euro-zone.
 
  iDEAL is nice to have and important. IBAN is a minimal baseline
  requirement.
 
  sincerely,
  Kim
 
 
 
  On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:42:31PM +0100, Walter Vermeir wrote:
   Op 17-11-14 om 20:28 schreef Lodewijk:
  
you back to the credit card page) or even via regular bank transfer
  (using
an IBAN) in the Netherlands. The donation page
  
   Historically the structure of bank account numbers are very different
   from country to country. And making transfers from one bank account to
   an other bank account, especially internationally, are/where complex and
   expensive.
  
   There is still a lot of room of improvement but nevertheless it has
   never been so easy and cheap to do international transfers as now.
  
   The IBAN system - International Bank Account Number - is active in a
   fair chunk of the globe.
  
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bank_Account_Number#Adoption
  
   Inside the EURO-zone , 19 countries, ?? 337 million Europeans , people
   can make a bank transfer to an EURO-zone IBAN bank account without
   additional expenses.
  
   Many more outside the EURO-zone can easy make international payments to
   an IBAN bank account. That is not free ... but paypal is certainly not
   free also. The costs are just deducted from your donation.
  
  
   The WMF has always has been a huge fan of payment by credit cards.
   Understandable, the WMF is founded in the country of the Credit card.
  
   But that can make you blind to the fact that other people are used to
   total other payment systems.
  
   A couple of years ago I discovered that there where still people using
   cheques in France. That came as a total surprise to me. I remember my
   dad using cheques 30 years ago. I never came in to contact with a cheque
   since then. To my knowledge cheques where long gone. History. Extinct.
  
   But ... when you have the financial business concept of the WMF - when
   you need money beg for it - the donation channel should be tailer made
   for the specific common way of payment used by the person who is so good
   to be willing to make an donation.
  
   Walter
  
  
  
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[Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-26 Thread Kim Bruning

Washington post article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/

sincerely,
Kim

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-21 Thread Kim Bruning

To amplify:

Paying (business) taxes in The Netherlands now pretty much requires
electronic payment to an IBAN Account; a.k.a. it is (now) the standard,
default, baseline way to make payments at all. 

After registering a business, the very next action is to open an (IBAN)
account. All extant dutch accounts that predate IBAN have been converted
to IBAN. All administration systems (must(!)) support IBAN. 

If you want to do business in the Netherlands, you need to support IBAN.

Note that many (most?) dutch citizens do not have credit cards or paypal
accounts.

Further, IBAN is standardized throughout the euro-zone.

iDEAL is nice to have and important. IBAN is a minimal baseline requirement.

sincerely,
Kim



On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:42:31PM +0100, Walter Vermeir wrote:
 Op 17-11-14 om 20:28 schreef Lodewijk:
 
  you back to the credit card page) or even via regular bank transfer (using
  an IBAN) in the Netherlands. The donation page
 
 Historically the structure of bank account numbers are very different 
 from country to country. And making transfers from one bank account to 
 an other bank account, especially internationally, are/where complex and 
 expensive.
 
 There is still a lot of room of improvement but nevertheless it has 
 never been so easy and cheap to do international transfers as now.
 
 The IBAN system - International Bank Account Number - is active in a 
 fair chunk of the globe.
 
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bank_Account_Number#Adoption
 
 Inside the EURO-zone , 19 countries, ?? 337 million Europeans , people 
 can make a bank transfer to an EURO-zone IBAN bank account without 
 additional expenses.
 
 Many more outside the EURO-zone can easy make international payments to 
 an IBAN bank account. That is not free ... but paypal is certainly not 
 free also. The costs are just deducted from your donation.
 
 
 The WMF has always has been a huge fan of payment by credit cards. 
 Understandable, the WMF is founded in the country of the Credit card.
 
 But that can make you blind to the fact that other people are used to 
 total other payment systems.
 
 A couple of years ago I discovered that there where still people using 
 cheques in France. That came as a total surprise to me. I remember my 
 dad using cheques 30 years ago. I never came in to contact with a cheque 
 since then. To my knowledge cheques where long gone. History. Extinct.
 
 But ... when you have the financial business concept of the WMF - when 
 you need money beg for it - the donation channel should be tailer made 
 for the specific common way of payment used by the person who is so good 
 to be willing to make an donation.
 
 Walter
 
 
 
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[Wikimedia-l] The Rise and Decline of an Open Collaboration Community: How Wikipedia's reaction to sudden popularity is causing its decline

2014-11-12 Thread Kim Bruning


I found this document/research paper on wikipedia user retention; FWIW

http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/The_Rise_and_Decline/

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The Rise and Decline of an Open Collaboration Community: How Wikipedia's reaction to sudden popularity is causing its decline

2014-11-12 Thread Kim Bruning
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 09:04:11PM +0100, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
 Kim Bruning, 12/11/2014 19:40:
 
  I found this document/research paper on wikipedia user retention; FWIW
 
  http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/The_Rise_and_Decline/
 
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:The_Rise_and_Decline
 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation/63549/focus=63576


Oohhh, Interesting! :-)


sincerely,
Kim

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[Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Kim Bruning
I spotted this article linked from news.ycombinator.com,
arguing -well- what it says on the tin. ;-)

Apologies if someone else already posted a link.


https://medium.com/@MrJamesFisher/wikipedia-needs-an-ide-not-a-wysiwyg-editor-7acd85b582c8

I'm not sure scratches head. Well, if we allow lua in templates,
I suppose things actually are already pretty Interesting.

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visually impaired

2014-03-30 Thread Kim Bruning
Did they have issues with eg. templates at top of page?

On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 10:13:08AM -0600, Victor Grigas wrote:
 I interviewed 2 gentlemen who are both blind who use a program called JAWS on 
 desktop machines that reads the Wikipedia page to them, allowing them to 
 edit. 
 
  On Jan 15, 2014, at 2:26 AM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com 
  wrote:
  
  Hi, would anybody of you have some starting points concerning wikipedia for
  visually impaired persons, both computer and mobile devices?
  
  Rupert
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Goodbye as the German president of the Dutch chapter

2014-03-30 Thread Kim Bruning

Hope to see you again soon in whatever your next capacity may be!

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 07:59:45PM +0200, Ziko van Dijk wrote:
 Dear colleagues, collaborators and friends of free knowledge,
 
 After three eventful years I left the board of Wikimedia Nederland;
 yesterday was the General Assembly in Utrecht. This means a 'goodbye'.
 
 In this time, I had the privilege and pleasure to work with many great
 people in many different organisations. We saw a lot of small steps
 and some bigger ones directed to our common goal, the support of free
 knowledge. Certainly, not everything we as a movement or parts of the
 movement was achieved, though.
 
 Between many WMNL members and me, there were two grades of separation:
 coming from the humanities, my geekiness differs a little from the
 average Wikipedianess; having the German Wikipedia as my home wiki, I
 was never a very active or 'true' part of the Dutch editing community.
 And when I quoted in my speeches from medieval quests or Prussian
 literary realism, I received therefore some strange looks from some
 members.
 
 But I remain firmly convinced that good governance and respect have no
 nationality. Indeed, stroopwafels do have, and so I adopted the Dutch
 custom to bring them with me to Wikimedian meetings abroad.
 
 Wikimedia Nederland has experienced and overcome a difficult period of
 transition. Office space and employees, more members including more
 members without Wikipedia background, more activities, more money,
 more responsibility; more need for an association to mature and focus
 on what is necessary (and not always easy, cool or fun). We achieved
 that as a collective, slower than previously expected, but with the
 appropriate pride and good feelings about the future.
 
 Goodbye - and Hello: I am looking forward to see many of you again at
 whatever wiki, chat or real life meeting.
 
 Kind regards
 Ziko
 
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Nederland
 
 
 Dr. Ziko van Dijk
 
 Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
 Postbus 167
 3500 AD Utrecht
 http://wikimedia.nl
 
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Editor retention (was Re: Big data benefits and limitations (relevance: WMF editor engagement, fundraising, and HR practices))

2013-01-20 Thread Kim Bruning
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 09:53:46AM +, Richard Farmbrough wrote:
 number of years ago the oligarchy destroyed hope (Esperanza) - now the 

Well,  Esperanza ended up ossified faster than the rest of wikipedia,
so it had to be taken down.

I'm worried about people saying the same thing won't happen  to us
or Esperanza is behind us now.

This is blatantly not true. Just look at the state of en.wikipedia!

We're going to have to do a lot of work to get things koving again :-/

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Editor retention (was Re: Big data benefits and limitations (relevance: WMF editor engagement, fundraising, and HR practices))

2013-01-09 Thread Kim Bruning
On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 07:45:41AM +, David Gerard wrote:
 Right. So anyone in this thread going into detail about en:wp policies
 is actually not addressing this, and the problem is on a higher level?

:-/ Back to the drawing board. That actually makes
the problem a lot harder!

(does mean we know where to start looking though)


sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Editor retention (was Re: Big data benefits and limitations (relevance: WMF editor engagement, fundraising, and HR practices))

2013-01-09 Thread Kim Bruning
On Tue, Jan 08, 2013 at 04:50:39PM -0800, George Herbert wrote:
  The correct solution to newbies being chased off is not ban them upfront. 
  The
  correct solution is to deal with those chasing off the newbies ;-)
 
 There is a tremendous difference between a clickthrough warning that
 one might be wading into a dangerous topic, and a ban of a type or
 class of users from articles or topic areas.

Ah, I see what you're getting at now! 

As a temp measure, it's better than nothing, I suppose,
though the underlying problem should also be dealt with,
possibly by use of  DRN or similar.

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Editor retention (was Re: Big data benefits and limitations (relevance: WMF editor engagement, fundraising, and HR practices))

2013-01-08 Thread Kim Bruning
On Fri, Jan 04, 2013 at 12:48:46AM -0500, Risker wrote:
 all.  New editors don't know what BRD means (Bold, Revert, Discuss).


some oldereditors typically don't either. They often read it to mean the 
opposite
of what it actually means. 

WP Consensus works by switching between 2 different feedback cycles.
(For more on similar feedback cycles, see PDCA (corporate) or OODA (military) )

The first is simple Bold edit-watch-noagree?-edit[[Wikipedia:Consensus]]
The second is Bold-Revert-Discuss-Bold   mentioned at [[WP:BRD]], but
that page  does not cover this 
fully.

The mistake a lot of editors make is that they think it's linear
(bold--revert-discuss_forever)

In reality, the objective is to get back to bold editing, because you're on a 
wiki, and that's what wikis are for.

If you disagree that discussions are getting stuck, why can't we outright edit
policies anymore when they no longer fit? Why is there a report that says
wikipedia's structure is ossified?

If you disagrees that the primary objective is and should be to get back to
editing (and thus remain flexible and responsive at all times): How do you
propose that wikipedia adapt to the changing world around it, if many policies
and other pages are now effectively locked down?

I've worked at some very old companies. The reason they're still around is
because they accept input from the outside world, listen to people, and they
stay flexible by having processes in place to change the processes, as needed.

Finally, I don't think the WP structure is nescessarily bad. It's just that
people currently aren't learning how to use it like they did before.

Look at procedures used for elections in Iraqs system: first they taught
everyone how democracy worked, *then* they held an election. If they'd just held
elections without ever teaching anyone what that means, they'd have gotten a(n
even bigger) mess. :-P

sincerely,
Kim Bruning


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Editor retention (was Re: Big data benefits and limitations (relevance: WMF editor engagement, fundraising, and HR practices))

2013-01-08 Thread Kim Bruning
On Fri, Jan 04, 2013 at 03:51:42PM -0800, George Herbert wrote:
 Along the lines of noneuclidian geometry...
 
 What if we experiment (at least conceptually) with inverting that
 instruction?  Encourage people to write on subjects they know...
 
 Normal people won't be so much of an expert that using their own
 professional or academic work as a reference is even applicable.
 
 Actual experts, we can include a Please cite your sources, rather
 than your own work, thanks! and leave it at that.
 
 Actual experts who fail to heed that are a problem, but a much smaller
 and easier to communicate with and explain problem than the no-newbies
 one.

You know, this is starting to sound like we're the 2001 wikipedia to provide
input to the nascent Nupedia? ;-)

My proposal would be to replace AFC with an unstable branch wikipedia.
(And cherry-pick from there). This proposal has the upside that it uses proven
technology and processes ;-)

sincerely,
Kim bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Editor retention (was Re: Big data benefits and limitations (relevance: WMF editor engagement, fundraising, and HR practices))

2013-01-08 Thread Kim Bruning
On Fri, Jan 04, 2013 at 04:48:57PM -0800, George Herbert wrote:
 I almost wonder if having a warning flag for highly sensitive or
 contentious article, encouraging editors without some threshold of
 edits (500?  ... some number) to ask about contributions on the
 article talk page first, rather than going directly to editing the
 actual article...


Note: Adds a threshold, thus negatively influences editor retention.


sincerely,
Kim Bruning

scratches head Maybe we need some sort of course/book wiki-process design for
dummies.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Editor retention (was Re: Big data benefits and limitations (relevance: WMF editor engagement, fundraising, and HR practices))

2013-01-08 Thread Kim Bruning
 With respect to welcoming and assisting new users on the English
 Wikipedia where there is a bewildering volume of varied activity by new
 and experienced users it might be helpful if we had a recent changes
 options that showed only edit by new editors with less than say 100 edits
 that could be monitored. Newbie helpers could then welcome, comment,
 compliment, or otherwise assist the new user. Obviously access to such a
 recent changes option by those looking for trouble could also be used in
 ways that would discourage the new user. Perhaps access could be limited
 to only flagged newbie helpers.


Technically, you could get very close by just creating a separate wiki for new
users and new articles. (replacing the current AFC process).

Simplest thing that could possibly work. + we have a precedent
(nupedia-wikipedia)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Editor retention (was Re: Big data benefits and limitations (relevance: WMF editor engagement, fundraising, and HR practices))

2013-01-08 Thread Kim Bruning
On Tue, Jan 08, 2013 at 04:13:20PM -0800, George Herbert wrote:
 
  Note: Adds a threshold, thus negatively influences editor retention.

 
 But we need to understand what's wrong with the current way of doing things as
 part of the discussion.


Consider a famous example in Japan: Several Japanese onsens had problems with
Russian Sailors, so in the end they instituded a no foreigners allowed policy.
This solved the probnlem nicely. 

I've also heard a story about a lan party in texas, where they had had repeated
issues with people hurling slurs at girl gamers etc. so in the end they simply
banned all female participants. 


The correct solution to newbies being chased off is not ban them upfront. The
correct solution is to deal with those chasing off the newbies ;-)


sincerely,
Kim

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Editor retention (was Re: Big data benefits and limitations (relevance: WMF editor engagement, fundraising, and HR practices))

2013-01-08 Thread Kim Bruning
On Fri, Jan 04, 2013 at 01:10:33PM +, David Gerard wrote:
 On 4 January 2013 13:03, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:
 
  With respect to welcoming and assisting new users on the English
  Wikipedia where there is a bewildering volume of varied activity by new
  and experienced users it might be helpful if we had a recent changes
  options that showed only edit by new editors with less than say 100 edits
  that could be monitored. Newbie helpers could then welcome, comment,
  compliment, or otherwise assist the new user. Obviously access to such a
  recent changes option by those looking for trouble could also be used in
  ways that would discourage the new user. Perhaps access could be limited
  to only flagged newbie helpers.
 
 
 How would we stop Twinkle/Huggle users from using such a feed as a
 shooting gallery?

Conspire with the Twinkle/Huggle writers to implement [[poka-yoke]]
(mistake-proofed) UI and workflow changes, so that that course of action
becomes difficult?

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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[Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia collaterally damaged by google's autocomplete filter

2012-11-07 Thread Kim Bruning


Google's autocomplete filter now censors certain search terms.
While this may or may not be successful at stopping piracy, it certainly 
manages
to filter wikipedia pages on these topics.

See here, and note the top hit for their example:

http://torrentfreak.com/why-is-megaupload-still-censored-by-googles-piracy-filter-121028/

I've also tested a few of the knwn terms myself.

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

2012-10-17 Thread Kim Bruning
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:47:42AM -0700, Erik Moeller wrote:
 Hi folks,
 
 a quick update on the launch of a travel project under the WMF
 umbrella, and the import of the existing Wikivoyage site.

3 3 3

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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[Wikimedia-l] Clean IT Project

2012-09-25 Thread Kim Bruning
Clean IT project

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120921/03581820457/eu-officials-propose-internet-cops-patrol-no-anonymity-no-obscure-languages-because-terrorism.shtml

As usual for Scaremongering Online Headlines, this is claiming that they'd 
propose banning sites in entire languages. 
How realistic is this? If at all realistic, would this cause trouble for some 
of our (less common language) projects?

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] CNET News: Corruption in Wikiland? Paid PR scandal erupts at Wikipedia

2012-09-19 Thread Kim Bruning
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 05:19:19PM -0700, George Herbert wrote:
 I'm curious as to the internal view of the details, but... this is
 Violet Blue blogging about us.

Violet Blue is a known quantity to you?

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Travel Guide: Board statement

2012-09-18 Thread Kim Bruning

That's one step better than I was hoping for,

If all y'all are already in close contact with Erik, then I'm
no longer needed in this phase. :-)

(unless I can help with setup, or getting more data, or etc.)

Good luck, and have fun! :-)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

PS. do post regular updates on status. I'd love to know how
things go from here! :-)

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:06:32PM +0200, Stefan Fussan wrote:
 We are about to migrate the WT data on WV as a first step ( 
 http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/Migration_FAQ ). I am in touch with 
 Erik as well.
 Till now i have got no time table and any further information from the 
 WMF.  But I am sure, during the next two weeks we will know more details 
 about the procedure.
 
 Stefan aka Fussi
 
 Am 17.09.2012 19:31, schrieb Samuel Klein:
  The Wikivoyage migration plans should be able to proceed.  I haven't seen a
  specific plan for how that will work; it is still being discussed on Meta
  and on Wikivoyage.
 
  Sam.
 
  On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote:
 
  On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 03:21:55PM +0200, Alice Wiegand wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following
  statement about the travel guide RfC
  http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide :
  What are the next steps? Will the foundation first wait for all
  lawsuits to resolve, or will they start with working on providing the
  servers? What's the current time-frame?
 
  sincerely,
   Kim Bruning
 
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[Wikimedia-l] CNET News: Corruption in Wikiland? Paid PR scandal erupts at Wikipedia

2012-09-18 Thread Kim Bruning

Spotted this in my news feed,

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57514677-93/corruption-in-wikiland-paid-pr-scandal-erupts-at-wikipedia/

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Travel Guide: Board statement

2012-09-14 Thread Kim Bruning
On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 03:21:55PM +0200, Alice Wiegand wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following
 statement about the travel guide RfC
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide :


What are the next steps? Will the foundation first wait for all
lawsuits to resolve, or will they start with working on providing the
servers? What's the current time-frame?

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Foundation Seeks Declaratory Relief in response to Legal Threats from Internet Brands

2012-09-07 Thread Kim Bruning
On Fri, Sep 07, 2012 at 01:26:06PM +0100, David Gerard wrote:
 My blog post, in which I emphasise that this is fundamentally an
 attack on CC by-sa and the freedom of free content:

Your blog post somehow made its way to slashdot. 

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/09/07/1853238/internet-brands-sues-people-for-forking-under-cc-by-sa

(Haven't spotted at HN or Reddit yet.)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Foundation Seeks Declaratory Relief in response to Legal Threats from Internet Brands

2012-09-05 Thread Kim Bruning
On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 05:09:29AM +, Max Harmony wrote:
 Would it be inappropriate for community members to express their
 displeasure with the actions of Internet Brands, perhaps by mass or
 organised boycott? 

The latter is pretty much already happening by default. 

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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[Wikimedia-l] Even Google gets it wrong (filtering Bisexual from instant results and autocomplete)

2012-08-20 Thread Kim Bruning
Google accidentally blocks Bisexual from Instant Search and Autocomplete.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfbO4iFaJOw


As you say, we're strong LGBT supporters. Sometimes perfectly good search 
terms can trip up our algorithms that decide whether to show instant
results. This can happen when our automatic filters detect a strong correlation 
on the (unfiltered) Internet between those terms and pornography.
The effect varies from term to term, and keep in mind we handle billions of 
queries each day, 16% of which are new to us each day, across 146
languages. But we appreciate your feedback -- it's this kind of case that 
motivates us to keep working on our algorithms so we can get people the
information they need as quickly as possible.- Google Spokesperson, July 2nd 
2012



sincerely,
Kim Bruning


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[Wikimedia-l] Side discussion: Volunteer time is precious Re: Articles for Creation broken

2012-08-20 Thread Kim Bruning
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:48:29AM +0100, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
 On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Katie Chan k...@ktchan.info wrote:
 
  On 19/08/2012 11:04, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
 
  I currently see 370 submissions pending. Does this mean that someone has
  processed 700 articles since the beginning of this thread, or am I looking
  at the wrong thing?
 
 
  More than one someone, but you're looking at the right thing.
 
 
 
 Sounds like the someones have done some hard volunteer work there ... and
 are probably due some thanks.

Good plan. At the same time, here's a not-so common question: Is their level of 
effort sustainable?

Just because we get it for free, doesn't mean volunteer time isn't precious. 
It'd be interesting to go through
all our processes and see where we can make them more efficient, thus freeing 
up those same volunteer for other things.
(in theory;-)

Yes I know that volunteer time isn't 100% fungible, but saving volunteers time 
certainly won't hurt editor
retention or process throughput. ;-)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A task list for a beginning project

2012-07-31 Thread Kim Bruning
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 09:35:49AM +0300, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
 Hello,
 
 There are many projects in small languages. People want to develop
 them, but are often not sure what should they do. Even something basic
 like improve existing pages and write new ones may not be obvious.
 
 Is there something like a task list for new projects? Something like:
 


Chenneling Siebrand and Gerard:
Go to translatewiki.net and translate the UI for your language? (if not already 
done)


sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

2012-07-25 Thread Kim Bruning
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 09:04:46PM +0100, Thomas Morton wrote:
 
 This all ties back to my view that we don't think of the average reader
 enough :)


What do we want the average reader to do? Who do we want them to be.
Do we want them to be an encyclopedia reader, a wiki editor,
or ... something in between? 

A novel thought that!

I think that every person who comes to take something away, also
has something to bring back in. 

Actually, that's pretty much certain, sooner or later.

An encyclopedia is a starting point for research. Once you're even
just halfway researching your topic, you probably know more than the
encyclopedia does.

This is how I sometimes contributed to wikipedia early on. [1]

Rather than giving up and calling people the average reader, can
we think about how we can get them to give something back?

Sure, we probably can't get 100% of readers to give something back, but we
can definitely do better than the meager fraction-of-1% we have now. 

Our policies/procedures/work-patterns have swung a little too far
encyclopedia-ward. We need to get the pendulum swinging back
wiki-ward for a while.

sincerely,
Kim Bruning


[1] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lost_functionalities#Using_wikipedia_as_an_.28anonymous.29_research_tool



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

2012-07-25 Thread Kim Bruning
On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 09:48:50PM +0200, Svip wrote:
 Oh and here is a fun fact I have discovered over the years; reading
 large texts of a serif typeface is a lot easier than a sans-serif
 typeface.


See, I'm *not* crazy to think that! phew

That's why I still use the classic skin, it's the only skin that
has serif fonts for body text. :-/

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] TVTropes deletes all pages with Rape in title under advertising pressure.

2012-07-01 Thread Kim Bruning

Better would be to keep those articles, and also (at some point) to preserve 
TVTropes.

sincerely,  
Kim Bruning

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 06:17:57PM +, Mike Dupont wrote:
 well i decided to delete them, and other articles dealing with peoples
 personal lives.
 I dont want to deal with stuff like that,
 mike
 
 On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Mike  Dupont
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:
  Well you think i should delete them from the speedydeletion wikia?
  http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=rapefulltext=Search
  mike
 
  On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote:
 
  Wow, thank goodness we never had advertising. The TV-Tropes wiki has been 
  forced to censor a
  number of pages due to advertiser pressure.
 
  ? ? ? ?http://www.themarysue.com/tv-tropes-rape-articles/
 
  In the mean time, the discussed tropes *do* exist in our culture and in 
  our movies. It
  somehow feels soviet. :-/
 
  sincerely,
  ? ? ? ?Kim Bruning
 
 
  --
 
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  --
  James Michael DuPont
  Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
  Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
  Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
 
 
 
 -- 
 James Michael DuPont
 Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
 Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
 Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] TVTropes deletes all pages with Rape in title under advertising pressure.

2012-06-26 Thread Kim Bruning
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 08:41:04PM +0100, geni wrote:
 On 26 June 2012 19:02, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote:
  In the mean time, the discussed tropes *do* exist in our culture and in our 
  movies. It
  somehow feels soviet. :-/
 
 A significant chunk of them would probably fail [[WP:V]]. Actually for
 the most part I just feel sorry for the people who are meant to
 enforce the new rules. On the other hand I note that home made
 explosive tropes are not affected.

TvTropes and en.wp have different foci, so that should not surprise
anyone. (else there wouldn't need to be 2 different wikis)

That said, a number of the expunged topics (eg. movies, books, etc) do
appear to overlap with articles on en.wp, where they are discussed in
our typical dry manner.

(This from a small sample, and they're still working at it, so
ymmv)


sincerely,
Kim Bruning



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] TVTropes deletes all pages with Rape in title under advertising pressure.

2012-06-26 Thread Kim Bruning
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 09:07:02PM +0100, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
 
 I've always been against ads, but as far as I am concerned, the illusion of
 an NPOV project ended with the SOPA strike, and Jimbo's current exploits
 around O'Dwyer (who I agree should not be extradited, but doh, that is not
 the point ...) just underscore that.

The SOPA strike was necessary for us to retain neutrality. (It's the old
freedom to swing your fists where you wish, versus limiting the arc to
avoid my nose discussion; aka BSD vs GPL; aka do what you want, vs do
unto others;  etc. (incidentally, is there a general term for this 100% freedom
vs -except not allowed to take away freedom- rule?))

It might be useful to try to correct newspapers if they state we set
aside our neutrality. It was precisely our neutrality that was at stake!

Of course if Jimmy wants to do other political things, he should be a
bit careful to either explain to everyone why it's necessary for the
foundation and/or explain that he's doing it independently and his views
do not nescessarily reflect the views of the board, etc etc. I hope he's
doing that consistently. Are you saying that maybe he hasn't?

 Besides, the ones putting pressure on TV Tropes, and who made them take the
 pages down, are Google.
 That is the same Google who are a major financial contributor to Wikimedia.

Hmmm. I think WMF talks with different departments at Google than TV
Tropes does. It might be useful to enquire?


sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FSF Blocked by MS Net nanny software

2012-06-25 Thread Kim Bruning
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 02:21:46PM +1000, K. Peachey wrote:
 And this has what to do with the Wikimedia-l List?

It's Yet Another data point on the list of reasons why net-nannying people is a 
bad idea, and might get you in
NPOVPR hot water (like poor old Microsoft here)
Also, we're friends with the FSF. ;-)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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[Wikimedia-l] FSF Blocked by MS Net nanny software

2012-06-24 Thread Kim Bruning

The FSF is not very pleased about being classified as a gambling site.

http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/dear-microsoft-fsf.org-is-not-a-gambling-site

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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[Wikimedia-l] Copyright information not digitised?

2012-06-23 Thread Kim Bruning


According to:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120330/12402418305/why-missing-20th-century-books-is-even-worse-than-it-seems.shtml

a lot of books have an uncertain copyright status, because the Copyright Office 
records have not been
digitized yet.

Is this true? Would offering to help digitize these records fit in our mission
(especially wrt WikiSource) ?

sincerely,
Kim Bruning


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikidata opinion piece in The Atlantic

2012-06-22 Thread Kim Bruning
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 04:46:50PM -0700, En Pine wrote:
 
 Here's an opinion piece, The Problem with Wikidata, by Mark Graham, who 
 is a Research Fellow at the Oxford Internet Institute, which appears on 
 The Atlantic's website. I'm not personally supporting or opposing his views 
 but I found this to be an interesting read. 
 http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/04/the-problem-with-wikidata/255564/
  

From reading, it looks like the wikidata team has this at least partially 
covered.
We're making plenty of positive progress, but we do have to
keep our eyes open for (potential) pernicious potholes in the road.

If someone shouts look out, we should definitely stop and look, just to be
sure. ;-)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Purpose-driven motivation

2012-06-21 Thread Kim Bruning
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 08:57:31PM -0700, Steven Walling wrote:
 On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 7:05 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:
 
  Hi.
 
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM9p4o050EY
 
  Someone sent this to me earlier this week. It's a ten-minute cartoon video
  that discusses purpose and motivation. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

More complete version. And what do you mean you haven't seen it 10
times already, and learned it off by heart? ;-)

There's a book too. Haven't read it yet looks ashamed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive:_The_Surprising_Truth_About_What_Motivates_Us

sincerely,
Kim Bruning


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Pro-active user privacy (Was: Update on IPv6)

2012-06-13 Thread Kim Bruning



On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 11:22:52AM -0700, James Forrester wrote:
 
 Can I suggest that we try to discuss this on-wiki (as it's more
 inclusive of the community)? -
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Unregistered_user or something linked
 from there would be the 'obvious' place to start.


Wow, current state of affairs is (paraphrased)
new users are not welcome? :-(

That might explain some issues! 

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6

2012-06-12 Thread Kim Bruning
On Fri, Jun 01, 2012 at 11:12:58PM +0200, Erik Moeller wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 We're planning to do limited production testing of IPv6 during the
 Berlin Hackathon 2012 (June 2-3). Provided that the number of issues
 we encounter are manageable, we may fully enable IPv6 on IPv6 day, and
 keep it enabled.


What with XS4ALL (my ISP) now also offering IPv6 out-of-the-box, there's 
at least one extra IPv6 anon on en.wp. ;-)


I noticed that my current IPv6 address appears to be assigned
dynamically by XS4ALL. I can probably get static if I choose it. But the
dynamic assignment option does alleviate some people's privacy
concerns, right?

sincerely,
Kim Bruning


ps. We all know that everyone needs to switch to IPv6 eventually.
Don't be surprised when people in your neighborhood decide to do
so, with or without additional warning.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched

2012-06-12 Thread Kim Bruning

In theory, yes. However, if you're fetching page dumps conforming to the schema 
at
http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.6/ 
http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.6.xsd

to some extent you've already got all the information anyway. It *almost* takes 
more work
to filter out just the authors. :-P

If you're getting page data in some different format, sure. :-)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning


On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:47:31AM +0100, Thomas Morton wrote:
 This has been debated numerous times; to what extent does the attribution
 have to relate to the exact contribution of each author.
 
 A list of authors has been considered acceptable in the past (including
 on-wiki).
 
 Tom
 
 On 12 June 2012 23:48, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote:
 
  On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 05:44:40AM +, Mike Dupont wrote:
   Hi,
  
   Again the full history is available on archive.org and i think that no
  one
   is going to think that this data is from me, it is clearly marked as
  being
   from wikipedia.
 
 
  You are very concientious, and normally this would indeed be adequate (not
  perfect,
  but definitely adequate :)
 
  It is adequate because wikipedia itself retains full attribution
  information in
  page history. One can follow the chain from the copy back to the wikipedia
  original
  back to the page history and voila, more than you ever wanted to know.
 
  The problem with deleted/hidden articles on en.wp is that the history
  information
  is also deleted/hidden; and therefore the attribution chain is broken.
 
  Attribution information is important for legal and open content reasons of
  course.
 
  Is it possible to keep a copy of page history somewhere also?
 
  I know the mediawiki export/import functions support this, and work
  via GET request.
  see
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Export
 
  eg:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Export/Train
 
  sincerely,
 Kim Bruning
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] speedydeletion.wika.com lauched

2012-06-12 Thread Kim Bruning
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 05:44:40AM +, Mike Dupont wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Again the full history is available on archive.org and i think that no one
 is going to think that this data is from me, it is clearly marked as being
 from wikipedia.

ps. It occurs to me that if the full history is available on archive.org, that
linking to the relevant archive.org data might be adequate.



sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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[Wikimedia-l] Myth Busted Re: TomTom does a Britannica

2012-06-02 Thread Kim Bruning


On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 08:08:21AM -0400, Anthony wrote:
 The difference is that Wikipedia is usable in the real world, whereas
 OSM, for the most part, is not.

OSMAndroid is fully usable for satnav in the real world.
It includes enough data on streets, buildings and POI's to
find what you need. You can download maps so you don't
need a network connection for maps; and recent upgrades
also allow one to do routing on the local CPU, so you
can use your android phone just like a tomtom, except
with OSM map data ;-)

When eg. playing tourist in Italy, this worked perfectly for me.

I'm going to say that this myth is busted ;-) 

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] TomTom does a Britannica

2012-06-02 Thread Kim Bruning
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 09:29:19AM -0400, Anthony wrote:
 I just tried osmand.  I can't even figure out how to put in an
 address.  

WFM (Works For Me)? Also routing is not mapping. It looks like the
android coders could still improve their routing algorithms a bit. As
long as you take that into account, it's quite usable. (I always Use
Brain(tm) in combination satnav anyway, so I've hardly noticed, myself)

Note that OSMAndroid supports multiple online routing providers as well as
its own local-CPU algorithm. YMMV (literally! ;)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fire Drill Re: Wikimedia sites not easy to archive (Was Re: Knol is closing tomorrow )

2012-05-17 Thread Kim Bruning
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 07:43:09AM -0400, Anthony wrote:
 
 In fact, I think someone at WMF should contact Amazon and see if
 they'll let us conduct the experiment for free, in exchange for us
 creating the dump for them to host as a public data set
 (http://aws.amazon.com/publicdatasets/).


That sounds like an excellent plan. At the same time, it might be useful to get 
Archive Team
involved. 

* They have warm bodies. (always useful, one can never have enough volunteers ;)
* They have experience with very large datasets
* They'd be very happy to help (it's their mission)
* Some of them may be able to provide Sufficient Storage(tm) and server 
capacity. Saves us
the Amazon AWS bill. 
* We might set a precedent where others might provide their data to AT directly 
too.

AT's mission dovetails nicely with ours. We provide the sum of all human 
knowledge to people.
AT ensures that the sum of all human knowledge is not subtracted from.


sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Announcement] James Forrester joins WMF as Technical Product Analyst

2012-05-17 Thread Kim Bruning
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 09:52:23AM -0700, Howie Fung wrote:
 Everyone,
 
 It?s my pleasure to announce that James Forrester is joining our San
 Francisco office as a Technical Product Analyst, supporting the Visual
 Editor team.

Took your time!

Nice to see James at WMF, where he can get into the proper kinds of trouble. :-)


sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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