Re: [Wikimedia-l] Monthly skill share idea

2018-10-16 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 16/10/2018 à 09:23, Peter Southwood a écrit :

Matthias,
Since you presumably have a better suggestion, go ahead and suggest it.


I may have some suggestions, anyone can have one, provided the target is 
met.



While you are at it, look into a solution for all the air transport for even 
more frivolous objectives, also the land transport. We could do with a few good 
workable alternatives for daily commuting. I assume you do not own or use a 
private motor vehicle, they are generally less efficient than large passenger 
aircraft.


Sure, except that one typically count a trip by hours, and hours in an 
aircraft consume far more by passenger than the biggest car.
The point is not to wait for "workable alternatives" if there is no 
perfect ones, but as far as transport is concerned, to travel less 
often, less far, less quickly... or possibly for a longer time.



Also, a lot depends on where the trainers start from. Wikimedia is a worldwide 
movement, they do not all have to come from WMF headquarters, and you appear 
not to take into consideration the chain reaction effect,


You told it, we may consider that we are very closed to a chain reaction 
effect in global warming if nothing changes rapidly.



once there are people in a region with the skills, they can spread them locally 
far more efficiently, but somewhere it has to start.
Cheers,
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Mathias Damour
Sent: 16 October 2018 07:49
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Monthly skill share idea

Le 15/10/2018 à 13:36, Peter Southwood a écrit :

I like the idea. Once you have worked out how to do it efficiently, maybe the 
WMF can send out trainers to places where the skills are thin on the ground.
Cheers,
Peter

Do you mean burning hundreds of litres of jet fuel for one or a few
workshop for an handful of people?
How irresponsible. You may didn't get the emergency of global warming
mitigation.
For the Wikimedia movement, to get organised in a way that lead to drop
the flights needed by 5 or 10 time in the next few years would be only
taking its fair share in the action.


-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
John Lubbock
Sent: 15 October 2018 13:14
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Monthly skill share idea

Hi all, after talking to community members at the London meetup yesterday,
I want to suggest that we start running a monthly skillshare after work at
the Wikimedia UK office. It would be good to organise a 12 month programme
with skillshares on things like 'getting an article to featured article
status', AWB, Wikidata infoboxes, something on commons or photography
perhaps.

Would anybody like to suggest other subjects which it would be good to have
a workshop on? We need a list of 12 which would have some broad appeal to
the community and chapter members.

I would suggest Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, maybe first week of the
month. How does that sound to everyone?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Monthly skill share idea

2018-10-15 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 15/10/2018 à 13:36, Peter Southwood a écrit :

I like the idea. Once you have worked out how to do it efficiently, maybe the 
WMF can send out trainers to places where the skills are thin on the ground.
Cheers,
Peter


Do you mean burning hundreds of litres of jet fuel for one or a few 
workshop for an handful of people?
How irresponsible. You may didn't get the emergency of global warming 
mitigation.
For the Wikimedia movement, to get organised in a way that lead to drop 
the flights needed by 5 or 10 time in the next few years would be only 
taking its fair share in the action.



-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
John Lubbock
Sent: 15 October 2018 13:14
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Monthly skill share idea

Hi all, after talking to community members at the London meetup yesterday,
I want to suggest that we start running a monthly skillshare after work at
the Wikimedia UK office. It would be good to organise a 12 month programme
with skillshares on things like 'getting an article to featured article
status', AWB, Wikidata infoboxes, something on commons or photography
perhaps.

Would anybody like to suggest other subjects which it would be good to have
a workshop on? We need a list of 12 which would have some broad appeal to
the community and chapter members.

I would suggest Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, maybe first week of the
month. How does that sound to everyone?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Politics

2017-02-05 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 05/02/2017 à 10:45, Gerard Meijssen a écrit :

Hoi,
Yair you are wrong. When our director spoke up against the ukaze of Mr
Trump about people visiting our office, the only office of the Wikimedia
Foundation, it directly affected our work, our mission. We have WMF
employees that cannot come to the office any longer. We have employees that
cannot visit their family when there are grave family situations.


I also agree with Mike's post. In another hand, I think that Gerard 
Meijssen's argument is not satisfactory.
I mean, if one day a substantial carbon tax, which I personally wish 
for, would multiply the cost of plane travels by 2 or 4 times (say, not 
in a day), I hope the WMF would not protest against it (I don't tell 
about supporting it), even if it would "directly affect our work", or 
actually the way we use to work now, with much intercontinental flights 
for a few days of meeting.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Arbital, another Wikipedia competitor/complement

2016-03-14 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 14/03/2016 02:03, David Gerard a écrit :

Being put together by Eliezer Yudkowsky of LessWrong. Content is
cc-by-sa 3.0, don't know about the software.

https://arbital.com/p/arbital_ambitions/

Rather than the "encyclopedia" approach, it tries to be more
pedagogical, teaching the reader at their level.


The problem of "readers coming in with different levels of background 
knowledge" is actual.
Yet I believe that to elaborate just another (more accessible) level 
resource, however sticking to the "encyclopedia approach" that proved 
successful, is good step to answer this issue.
That's what we do on Vikidia and Wikikids.nl, and young or not-so-young 
readers really appreciate it.
I don't know if one day these contents will be reused and processed to 
automatically generate information that would precisely fit to someone's 
level, yet if it happens once, another material than Wikipedia may help !
The "Wikipedia for children" model works well (in quality, traffic...) 
in at least two languages. I would say that the current most difficult 
thing is to "scale" it in other languages.
That's where some help would have a big impact, say to produce in a way 
or another 10 000 important and quality encyclopedia articles for 
children in some big languages to catch up with the two most developed 
"Wikipedia for children".


More on :
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis_for_children
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Q1 Fundraising Update

2015-10-11 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 10/10/2015 18:43, Toby Negrin a écrit :

Hi Folks --

I would suggest that if you are unhappy with the banners you apply your
energy to the annual planning process[1]. As long as the budget goes up 20%
year over year and page views fall, the Fundraising team will need to crank
up the banners.


For sure. Thus we may question why the budget should go up 20% year over 
year.
The 2015-2016 Annual Plan doesn't really justify it. How long do they 
plan to keep this growth? What is the limits to this growth if the 
fundraising team is just supposed to meet the targets it is given ? Will 
the limit be by choice of the WMF or one day failing to meet theses 
targets, despite more and more insistent banners?


What about capping the WMF growth just as the chapters funding was 
capped? What about degrowth? Would it be impossible for the WMF to 
fulfil its mission with the budget it had, say, 3 years ago?



It's worth pointing out that Fundraising is one of the strongest voices for
fiscal restraint at the Foundation.

-Toby

[1] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2015-2016_Annual_Plan

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Pete Forsyth <petefors...@gmail.com> wrote:


I want to be clear about my previous message -- I am not questioning any
individual person's integrity in the process, and I know from firsthand
experience that a tremendous amount of good work goes into this stuff. But
I think the process that has evolved around developing the campaign is
broken.

In Megan's message, I see a great deal of emphasis on the specific points
that are attributable to community suggestions/requests. But there is a
bigger point that gets lost: It's not about where the ideas come from, it's
about whether the final result "gets it right."

If the WMF produced mission-compatible banners without any community
consultation at all, I'd be happy, and I think most others would be too.
Running an open process is not the right way to measure success here. An
open process is one of many ways to surface problems, and maybe to generate
ideas; but it's not the be-all end-all.

The fund-raising department is clearly held accountable on its
easily-measured performance. It needs to also be held accountable to the
mission. How to do that is a difficult design and management problem, and I
don't pretend to have the perfect answer. But it's something that needs to
be done.

Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania 2017 Montreal - scooped by Signpost

2015-10-04 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 04/10/2015 05:36, Craig Franklin a écrit :

I take your point Pine, but "improving communication with the community" seems 
to have been a WMF priority for as long as I can remember, yet there doesn't seem to have 
been any consistent improvement, as we can see here.
A new approach and direction to how matters like this are communicated is 
clearly needed, because the current one doesn't seem to be working at all.


I wouldn't say that the WMF communication is simply bad, it is pretty 
professional.


It may rather be that an open communication and keeping control on the 
greater part of the decisions (or even conducting the users of the 
projets themself, as an average internet company does), are "two 
tendancies that are not fully compatible" (to borrow Florence's words).


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea

2015-03-18 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 18/03/2015 13:59, Marc A. Pelletier a écrit :

On 15-03-18 03:09 AM, Mathias Damour wrote:

[from the Convention on the Rights of the Child]
[...] this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart
information and ideas of all kinds

Interestingly enough, to me this reads /against/ the idea of a
Wikipedia for Kids insofar as the intent is to curate, limit, or
restrict the encyclopedia to material or language apropriate for children.


I really don't see your point. Children and older contributors can 
perfectly understand and comprehend that the the content must be 
appropriate for children, just as (and additionaly) it as to be 
encyclopedic content and respect the NPOV. They can go somewhere else 
for another kind of content. When they are on such a wiki for some time, 
they often are the most active defenders of its principles and rules.



For instance, would a Russian Kids' Wikipedia carefully avoid promotion
of homosexuality as their law now demands (to pick one salient example
amongst thousands).


There is not thousands examples, this kind af question is definitely not 
a day-to-day issue on Vikidia in French. There is so much to write on 
other subjects.


Le 18/03/2015 14:22, Fæ a écrit :

On 18 March 2015 at 12:59, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:

For instance, would a Russian Kids' Wikipedia carefully avoid promotion
of homosexuality as their law now demands (to pick one salient example
amongst thousands).

Yes it would.

Though this has been bounced about as a project for many years, with a
few reasonable examples being implemented (invariably having issues
for long term maintenance), it is a difficult and debatable business.
The topic of LGBT is a good test, as making educational materials
available to children addressing sexuality and gender is always
controversial, and at the same time there is no doubt that it is
needed.


Where did you hear about such project having issues for long term 
maintenance ?
The main issue some (not all) of these projects have is just a very 
common one : to gather a significant community.
I must say we don't have enough content on sexuality on fr.vikidia (in 
my opinion) yet the controversies on those subjects are not no frequent. 
I remember one about the content on the article Masturbation, some 
wanting it to remain vague and allusive, some other ones wanting it more 
informative. That's not such a big deal.


By the way, there is a frequent asked questions/Questions and answers on:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Questions_and_answers

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea

2015-03-18 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 18/03/2015 02:32, Samuel Klein a écrit :

Thanks for summarizing this, Mathias.  I love the work that has been done
so far on Wikikids, and think WMF should think about creative ways to make
such projects successful.  Gathering knowledge for all audiences requires
simpler language than most wikipedias have; and building a culture of
contribution works best when there are ways for young people to contribute
and collaborate.


Sure, I noted that the an article of the 1989 Convention on the Rights 
of the Child looks very closed to the Wikimedia vision and mission 
statements:
Article 13 - 1. The child shall have the right to freedom of 
expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart 
information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either 
orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other 
media of the child's choice.



I don't know if it will work as a WM-hosted project, under the current
system. This depends on whether we become more flexible in creating new and
independent communities.  But we should consider all of the ways to realize
our mission, including through partners whose tools  policies 
contributor networks look very different.


The policy on Wikikids/Vikidia is very closed to the one of Wikipedia, 
the novelty being just to acknowledge it could be implemented to 
children content and contributions.


On tools I fully agree with you : for example I think that with some 
data mining in existing simple content (Simple English Wikipedia, 
Vikidia and Wikikids and others) to point out the best quality/fitting, 
most usefull, most needed contents and articles, and then 
translation/adaptation from one another of those pointed out content, 
with the help of other tools and communities (such as Duolingo), we 
could greatly develop the content of those existing or to come wikis.

That's only my ideas on the subject by the way.


On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Mathias Damour mathias.dam...@laposte.net
wrote:


Hi,

They were quite a few expressed thoughts on the 2015 Strategy - Community
consultation that raised in a way or another the idea of a Wikipedia for
children. I've made some excerpt of them on the following page :
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Excerpt_from_
the_2015_Strategy/Community_consultation

It actually does exist and are thriving in some languages (especially in
Dutch and French, and we actually worked for a while on [[m:Wikikids]]),
however they seem to be also some rampant objections. The WMF may not be
the most suited organization to host and promote such wikis, is it?



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea

2015-03-18 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 18/03/2015 20:41, Marc A. Pelletier a écrit :

On 15-03-18 02:19 PM, Mathias Damour wrote:

[...] the content must be appropriate for children [...]

The problem is exactly that.  What is or is not appropriate for
children is an inherently *political* question, the answer to which is
inherently culture- religion- and governement-centric.  What *you*
define as appropriate is absolutely different from what *I* would -
illustrated by the very concept of believing that there /is/ such a
thing as not appropriate for children to begin with.


It still seems odd to me that those considerations would be some 
prevailing reason NOT to develop such a resource. In the same time, we 
have to take it as a fact and it can be a reason why the WMF may not be 
the appropriate organization to host and promote such wikis, being 
immersed in a certain climate surrounding children.


I quoted above the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which was not 
ratified by the US. One of the reason for that may be a conception of 
the rights of the parents to control what their children can be taught 
or the information they can reach, which would be slightly more extended 
in the US than in the average country. I mean rights of the parents 
against the rights of the government and against the eventual rights of 
the children to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all 
kinds, be it very resembling to the freely share in the sum of all 
knowledge - empower people...


That would be the ground for a tacit policy I've heard of on en.wp that 
would be don't tell us you are a minor. The basis of Simple English 
Wikipedia are also resembling it : don't tell it's for children (and 
consequently it isn't really for children).


Undoubtedly it doesn't prevent people from the US, among other 
countries, to be involved in and to benefit from such a resource.
And the chapters may be more suited to support such a project/resource. 
Several of them already do.



For instance, would a Russian Kids' Wikipedia carefully avoid promotion
of homosexuality as their law now demands (to pick one salient example
amongst thousands).

There is not thousands examples, this kind af question is definitely not
a day-to-day issue on Vikidia in French. There is so much to write on
other subjects.

There /are/ thousand of examples unless Vikidia is a 1:1 map to the
French Wikipedia with no selection or curation.  Every single article
that has not been included is a political statement, and raises a
question about its propriety.

That you think that this kind of question is not a day-to-day issue on
Vikidia simply means that you are presuming the answer - otherwise there
would be nothing to curate.


Vikidia is not a selection or curation, it's about writing new articles 
which are independent from their counterpart on Wikipedia in the same 
language. Otherwise we couldn't meet the objective to be more affordable 
for children. However we make it easy by interwiki links to reach the 
Wikipedia article on the same subject if one want to know more about it. 
Some article are even longer on Vikidia than their counterpart on 
Wikipédia, such as :

https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/%C3%8Atre_vivant


Does it mean that projects like Vikidia are not valid and should not
exist?  No.  It is perfectly allowable for any group (including groups
of volunteers) to pick and curate some fraction of our projects for
their use and according to their criteria.  In fact, we should
*encourage* such reuse.

It *does* mean that it is not apropriate for the projects to create or
endorse such political endeavors, however.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea

2015-03-18 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 18/03/2015 16:23, David Gerard a écrit :
http://schools-wikipedia.org does most of the job. And teachers LOVE 
it. We should give this project more love and assistance, it's 
basically the refutation of all attempts to, er, filter the base product.


Teachers love it, what about children?

Le 18/03/2015 16:51, Marc A. Pelletier a écrit :

On 15-03-18 11:23 AM, David Gerard wrote:

We should give this project more love and assistance, it's
basically the refutation of all attempts to, er, filter the base
product.

I agree.  Whenever a group of people decide to curate some subset of our
projects with an eye towards their needs, then I count it as a win (even
in the cases where I would object to the curation choices myself).


The fact is it is just a set of curated (and choosen) Wikipedia 
articles. What if they are still mostly too complicated ?


Le 18/03/2015 17:33, David Gerard a écrit :

On 18 March 2015 at 15:51, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:


What irks me is the idea of giving imprimatur to something we curate,
or to do any sort of curation ourselves (that is, the movement or the
Foundation).  All the knowledge means All, not some subset thereof.

In the case of Schools Wikipedia, it's worked quite well - the
editorial review heavy lifting was substantially done by en:wp
volunteers. They specifically approached it as what would we expect
in an English school situation? though it was intended for use
outside the UK (they just used the English National Curriculum as
their guide).


Should children be only allowed to be interested to their school 
curriculum? There is so much subjects to be interested in and to learn 
about.


Le 18/03/2015 17:38, David Gerard a écrit :

On 18 March 2015 at 16:07, Richard Symonds
richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:


Indeed. http://schools-wikipedia.org is already used around the world -
it's a great example of what can be done if Wikimedians work with (even
passively with) other orgs.

Everyone likes it, not many are coming forward to lead the ongoing
update cycle since User:Bozmo left SOS Children (the charity who put
it together). (And I'm not volunteering.) Not sure what to do about
that.


Well I suggest to do it on a full new open wiki, to use the Simple 
English Wikipedia content when it fits, to promote the translation of 
already made good work on other languages equivalent of such a wiki, and 
to allow fully new articles to be written and bettered.


Yet even the Simple English Wikipedia article are not always the best 
content to have. You may compare:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States
https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/History_of_the_USA , written in the last few 
month by a eleven years old vikidian (however a quite experienced user)
and... I can't find it on schools-wikipedia.org, there is just 
http://schools-wikipedia.org/wp/u/United_States.htm
I wonder how would someone curate the 168,391 bytes 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States to make it 
fit to school children.
And here is how we can curate, that's to say rewrite a few parts and 
add some images, an article from Simple English Wikipedia : 
https://en.vikidia.org/w/index.php?title=Roman_housediff=76306oldid=28149


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https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea

2015-03-18 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 18/03/2015 15:02, Amir E. Aharoni a écrit :

Both were printed in Russian in the Soviet Union, so they also had, um,
ideological adaptations, which I was smart enough to spot (yay for me), but
the reason I loved it is that it had large illustrations, clear and large
font and engaging language. It doesn't mean that the articles were short,
for example - some of them were several pages long. It just means that it
was well-adapted.

I don't know how to create a new thing that would do his well. Maybe some
consultation from education experts would be good. And these would have to
come from different cultures - again, not fot censorship, but for better
adaptation. Children in Arab countries won't necessarily be engaged by the
same things as children in France, and children in Russia won't necessarily
love the illustration style enjoyed by children in Argentina.


Thanks for backing up the idea, yet it's not like nothing would have 
been done to that day.
The method was nearly simply to pick up the method of Wikipedia, and 
gather contributors of all ages just as Wikipedia gather contributors of 
all educational backgrounds/levels. They is also some progressive 
education ideas behind this functioning. Actually they didn't give a 
method, but rather just made us think or know that it was feasible with 
and for children.
The result you can get an idea by this Google Trends on Wikibooks, 
Commons, Wikiversity, Wikisource and Vikidia in France or Wikibooks, 
Commons, Wikiversity, Wikisource und Wikikids in the Netherlands:

http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=wikibooks%2C%20commons%2C%20wiktionary%2C%20wikisource%2C%20vikidiageo=FR
http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=wikibooks%2C%20commons%2C%20wiktionary%2C%20wikisource%2C%20wikikidsgeo=NL
But it took more than 8 years.

More on 
http://blog.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-in-english-opens-today-lets-build-a-children-wiki-encyclopedia-6400


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[Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea

2015-03-17 Thread Mathias Damour

Hi,

They were quite a few expressed thoughts on the 2015 Strategy - 
Community consultation that raised in a way or another the idea of a 
Wikipedia for children. I've made some excerpt of them on the 
following page :

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Excerpt_from_the_2015_Strategy/Community_consultation

It actually does exist and are thriving in some languages (especially in 
Dutch and French, and we actually worked for a while on [[m:Wikikids]]), 
however they seem to be also some rampant objections. The WMF may not be 
the most suited organization to host and promote such wikis, is it?


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason

2015-01-03 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 03/01/2015 12:55, Romaine Wiki a écrit :

Hi Fae,

I haven't seen a page about this on wiki yet. It appears that various
volunteers who are working on organizing are informed about this behind the
scenes directly.

It also was mentioned in a discussion about the organisation of Wiki Loves
Monuments which raised many concerns. It was first mentioned in this mail:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007597.html
+
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007599.html

Later confirmed by Alex Wang:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007600.html
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007603.html

As I said this is not a positive campaign they intent, this is a negative
campaign as other projects are a victim here.

Yes, prioritizing is not a problem. But this does not feel good at all.
This is not good for project organizers nor for the gender gap projects,
nor for other projects.

Romaine


Thanks Romaine, that sounds terrible.
I can imagine if Wikipedia was managed that way in its first period or 
anytime : We will proactively address our gap in History for the next 3 
months, so please no more biology article until may (or maybe later 
we'll tell you) 


The fact is we can't rely or very poorly on the WMF anymore. Or just in 
the same way some people may apply for some governmental 
organisations/agencies subsidies and have to be skilled enough, not in 
their core project but to fit in the expectations, know the tricks for 
that and have the ability to deal with such hitches without being 
discouraged.


User:Pi zero made a pretty good point here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)oldid=10876939#Infrastructure
The WMF is internally structured to centrally create major software 
initiatives to be designed, implemented, and imposed all from the top 
down. This is the way commercial enterprises approach proprietary 
software, so it's natural that people who come from that world (both 
administrators and software developers) would tend to do things that 
way. The approach is well suited to the purpose of creating software 
that maximizes customers' dependency on the commercial enterprise. In 
other words, it minimizes customers' ablity to improve, generalize, 
duplicate, or even maintain the software on their own. However, this 
approach is deeply inappropriate if you're trying to nurture volunteer 
wikis. (...)


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason

2015-01-03 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 03/01/2015 14:58, Jane Darnell a écrit :

As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there is no need to
panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking about
shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The current
campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted at the
community in order to generate themed proposals. The current growth of
highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly more energy
to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month long theme, it
is hoped that the following will occur:
1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as proposal reviewers
and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in managing proposals
as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of proposers and their
proposals.
2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable easier translation
across projects if the target audience can be identified in advance
3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee members to
manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in various Wikimedia
projects.

The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great idea! How can
WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas?


No, I have ideas for other good projects, not this one.

I think that the capacity by the WMF - and actual action - to switch on 
and off the grants without debate and even notice depending on such 
thought and so-called campaign is prejudicial, like the capacity to 
switch on and off the donations from one country like - say Russia - is 
prejudicial too.


Le 03/01/2015 22:21, Romaine Wiki a écrit :

The Grants page says
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Start : Supporting mission-allied
people and organizations around the world.
This is not supporting, but demotivating, demolishing, discouraging, and
frustrating the organizing volunteers.


More simply, I would say that supporting does not mean governing or 
piloting.


All things considered, Sue Gardner was eventually wrong. Give the 
fundraising and the grantmaking back to the chapters.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Our final email

2014-12-19 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 19/12/2014 00:08, Liam Wyatt a écrit :

This email was sent by WMF fundraising today.
I'm embarrassed. Read the email first, then I'll tell you why, below.


Then what ?
I suggest the reasons why the WMF and Sue Gardner did struggle for years 
against the ability of the chapters to fundraise were bad, or at least 
not good enough.
They were complaint about the fundraising banners and messages, I guess 
one of the reason to centralize fundraising was to have full control on 
it and be able to switch it on and off at any time in any country (such 
as Russia), yet I don't think that it's even desirable.
Furthermore the WMF shouldn't process the Project and Event Grants and 
Individual Engagement Grants in the countries were there is an active 
chapter.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-12-19 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 19/12/2014 08:33, Gerard Meijssen a écrit :

Hoi,
I blogged about this [1]. By ignoring the rest of the world, they
effectively give ownership to the WMF to the USA way of working. On a more
practical level, they hand over money for their convenience that is in my
opinion an absolute waste. By using a UK organisation to process donations,
they ignore the UK chapter while they make demands of chapters to raise
funds.

PS I do hope the WMF gets all the money it is seeking.


+1

Funny I first read your last sentence:
''PS I do hope the WMF gets all the money its sinking.''
...

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread mathias . damour
- Mail original -

De: Fæ fae...@gmail.com 

 Actually, under Sue Gardner, the offer was that if the chapter did 
 change its ways, it would become a payment processor again. As a 
 trustee at that time, who was sent all the correspondence, this was 
 exactly what was put in writing. 

And did you believe her ? 

Mathias 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 05/12/2014 19:22, Michael Maggs a écrit :

Hi Nick

Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from 
allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, 
preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the 
available local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK). Many 
chapters, including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the 
fundraiser, but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that 
would not be permitted.  WMUK regretted that decision, and we 
responded to it here: 
https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.


I wonder if Sue Gardner has worked more on anything than centralizing 
the Wikimedia movement by various means and curtailing chapter growth 
and capacity.
I also wonder if she was mandated to do that by the board or if she just 
implemented her own views.

From this message of Ting Chen, it seems that it was her own will :-(

https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2014-June/072405.html
As some of you may remember that the years 2010 to 2012 [when he was 
chair of the Wikimedia Foundation] were especially difficult years in 
relationship between the Foundation and the chapters. The Foundation 
experimented a few approaches and changed again and again its direction. 
And the discussion about how to distribute the funds raised on our 
projects had repeatedly kindled, sometimes very violent confrontations. 
On one of the board meetings earlier of 2011 Sue said to the board that 
she never considered this confrontation as a question of who wins. She 
wanted a good and sound solution for the problems that are out there. 
After the Haifa Wikimania the discussion became even hotter and 
sometimes it really felt insulting. I always considered myself as a 
person who is very ballanced and who can keep his tempel, but at that 
point I must say that I was very unnerved by the dispute. We had our 
board meeting in San Francisco and after that Sue asked me to stay for a 
few days to give a speech on the All Hands Meeting of the staff. So one 
evening we went out for a dinner together and naturally, the discussion 
came back to the fund raising and fund dissemination topic. And I asked 
Sue with a sigh:Do you still think that it is not about who wins? And 
she said:Yes, of cause not. 


Ting Chen seems to have believed her :-(

--
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Thank you...

2014-06-02 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 02/06/2014 20:28, Ting Chen a écrit :

Hello dear all,

one of the most memorable moment in my work together with Sue was one 
evening in October 2011. As some of you may remember that the years 
2010 to 2012 were especially difficult years in relationship between 
the Foundation and the chapters. The Foundation experimented a few 
approaches and changed again and again its direction. And the 
discussion about how to distribute the funds raised on our projects 
had repeatedly kindled, sometimes very violent confrontations. (..)


That's interesting though I'm not sure I exactly get between who was the 
violent confrontations.
I don't blame my chapter for being at present the model student under 
the set rules for chapters, yet I deplore the long-lasting fight against 
the chapter's autonomy or growth and feel in accordance with the 
criticisms that were made notably by Wikimedia Deutchland and Wikimedia UK:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_portal/Comments/Extensive_feedback_from_WMDE_to_the_FDC_process
https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/File:Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner_regarding_non-renewal.pdf

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia and Universities

2014-05-06 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 06/05/2014 16:24, Leigh Thelmadatter a écrit :

(...) There is even the assumption on the part of many that this is the purview 
of chapters.


Why shouldn't it be ?

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia and Universities

2014-05-06 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 06/05/2014 20:15, Leigh Thelmadatter a écrit :

Where chapter support is wanted and helpful, no problem.  What I mean here is that universities 
should not be required to work under a chapter just because one exists.


I mean that universities should be able to work with a chapter when 
it exists, because it's the most convenient way. :-)



Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 20:08:58 +0200
From: mathias.dam...@laposte.net
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia and Universities

Le 06/05/2014 16:24, Leigh Thelmadatter a écrit :

(...) There is even the assumption on the part of many that this is the purview 
of chapters.

Why shouldn't it be ?

--
Mathias Damour
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays


--
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Sponsorship/donations to other organizations

2014-04-16 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 16/04/2014 14:13, Craig Franklin a écrit :

I don't think the message of having a bit of discipline in your budget and
making value-for-money a prime consideration is at all a bad thing for
chapters to be doing.  The way that the message was hammered in was at
times arrogant, aggressive, or plain out insulting, but the message itself
was a good one.


It actually appears that the message, let aside its form, had other 
goals than the discipline in budget. This even peculiarly come across 
the Ting Chen message, when he says: The reason why I was worried was 
the funding of WMF, not that of the chapters. These messages were 
obviously an effort to curtail chapter growth (quoting 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Board_meetings/2013-11-24/FAQ which 
however deny it). It certainly brought some value-for-money 
consideration at the cost of huge volunteer time and efforts to fulfil 
the requirement as well as impeded projects and activities development.



Large cash gifts made to third parties, in my view, rarely
represent good value-for-money.  All I ask for is a little consistency.

I would also posit that if WMF donors wanted to donate to a worthy project
like MariaDB, they'd donate to that rather than to the Foundation.


This point was addressed above: other organizations [infrastructural 
software] have much less visibility. I actually didn't know anything 
about MariaDB before today...



Le 16/04/2014 14:05, David Gerard a écrit :

The solution would then appear to be to treat the chapters better,
rather than others worse.


+++ !!

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Funding of decentralized organizational structure

2014-04-10 Thread mathias . damour
Hi,

 Message du 10/04/14 15:28
 De : Anders Wennersten 
 A : wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Copie à : 
 Objet : Re: [Wikimedia-l] Funding of decentralized organizational structure
 
(...)
And I would be unhappy if the divergence between project became too big, POV 
paid editing etc we will be stronger as a totality if we abide to the same base 
guidelines So I question your urge and need to decentralize. For am as a 
contributer the most important part is that I know my inputs is securely stored 
and will not be misused by actors like google or plain advertising. And for 
this reason I believe in a centralized structure as about today (for now) Anders

I don't tink that Ting Chen is disputing that the WMF should keep the core 
work. Yet the core work may mean about 20% of the movement resources instead of 
90%...

Mathias
[[User:Astirmays]]

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-03-01 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 01/03/2014 15:49, Jane Darnell a écrit :

The plot thickens! Of course it would be interesting to know what the
average Finnish Wikipedia user knows about how Wikipedia works and
whether they realize upon donation that they are not just donating to
their Finnish (or Swedish) Wikipedia, but also to all of the other
projects...


Sure, still it's funny that I was replied nearly the opposite recently: 
Those editors are largely unaware of chapters and thorgs, and many are 
surprised to learn that up to a quarter of donors' gifts are passed on 
to them. !!

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:WMF_Board_meetings/2013-11-24/FAQ#I_thought_we_had_plenty_of_money._Isn.27t_the_WMF_growing_as_well.3F_Is_this_just_an_effort_to_curtail_chapter_growth.3F

That must be a matter of point of view...

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board decisions on movement funding and approval issues

2014-02-12 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 12/02/2014 03:14, Mark a écrit :

On 2/11/14, 9:18 PM, Samuel Klein wrote:

The WMF also wants to let all groups have easier access to trademarks
and funds.  This is what user groups were designed to allow, with
minimal overhead.  These two ideas were combined into be a user group
for two years.



This part I do think is a good idea. There are many models of how 
individuals and groups participate and organize themselves within the 
global Wikimedia movement besides the umbrella Wikimedia Foundation, 
and imo the previous organizational/funding focus overlooked those who 
didn't fit one specific model: national Chapters, i.e. organizations 
seeking to represent Wikimedia-movement activities in a general sense, 
within the territory of one nation-state, and usually in a fairly 
official manner (paid staff, boards of directors, political 
visibility, etc.).


Yes, that's exactly what I want to keep and see developing in my 
country, to achieve reliability, acknowledgment by third people, etc.


I like that initiatives such as the individual-engagement grants, 
user-group recognition, etc. are opening up more avenues for 
Wikimedian organizations, organized along different lines, to find a 
more recognized (and funded) role in the movement.


I like them too, saved I want it to be supervised by my chapter rather 
than the WMF !


Mark, may you disclose which country you are from/live in ? I am from 
France, living in France.


--
Mathias Damour
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http://en.vikidia.org

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Children and Simple English

2013-05-30 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 31/05/2013 04:10, James Salsman a écrit :

Mathias Damour wrote:


The only sad thing is that it won't be launched in other languages

There is a longstanding proposal to create simple language Wikipedias
in languages other than English and France, but it remains to be seen
whether it is compatible with the current narrowing focus austerity
regime.


I'm afraid my message was not clear enought, I meant *Wikikids-type* 
projects should be launched in other language than existing active and 
well developed Vikidia in French and Wikikids.nl in Dutch !
I mean it should be a new set of project, not other simple language 
versions of Wikipedia.


The new Wikikids to launch in other languages would be in particular in 
German *and in english*, thus this page 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Relation_to_Simple_English_Wikipedia


Here is an extract of 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/For_children_or_by_children_%3F

**


   Who should Wikikids be written for?

Wikikids is a free encyclopedia designed for 8-13 yeas old children. 
However, this description is of use to define what it is geared toward, 
but it doesn't exclude its usefulness to others.


The Simple English Wikipedia ultimately has a similar purpose, yet it is 
designed primarily to speak to /language level/ rather than its 
audience's /age range/.


/*See : Wikikids/Relation to Simple English Wikipedia 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Relation_to_Simple_English_Wikipedia*/


We may imagine a documentary resource that, beyond considerations of age 
range, would address a comprehensibility level of any particular 
subject. Indeed, at any age we can be considered a beginner in a 
particular field of knowledge, and would need simple documents to take 
our first steps.


However, as we become more familiar with the basic ideas in a field, we 
become able – whatever our age – able to explore and better comprehend 
ever more complex documentation. A child that is impassioned by 
archaeology would certainly take advantage of Wikipedia articles or even 
subsequently specialized articles if they do not contain too much 
technical jargon.


The crucial quality for a documentary resource for children is to take 
them seriously and to take into account their learning level without 
stooping to infantilization. We may keep as a criterion that the quality 
of a children-directed content should be such that it could, without 
embarrassment, be offered to someone in a learning situation on that 
subject, whatever his age, be he a non-native speaker, a high school 
student in another language or just someone needing, in a particular 
field, to start from scratch.


We may even be cautious in not making the reader feel inferior, be they 
adult or teenager, by making them feel that the content was not designed 
for him.


The fact that a resource devoted to 8-13 years old children could be 
used for adult learning can constitute a guaranty against risks of 
infantilization. The achievement would be that any person, be he 8 or 
88, when starting from scratch on a subject, would know that he could 
find what he needs on such a wiki.

**



Le 30/05/2013 21:18, Mathias Damour a écrit :

Hence the Wikikids proposal !
Our clue on fr.vikidia.org (one of the existing Wikikids-like project) 
on it being actually used by children is the numerous messages they 
drop on the Guestbook when invited to write what they think of 
Vikidia by a sitenotice : 
http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Livre_d%27or : Many thanks and 
enthusiasm ! :-)
The only sad thing is that it won't be launched in other languages 
(and as a WM sister project) without your help and support (to fix the 
proposal, ask questions, write a RFC...)


See :
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
just set down : 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Relation_to_Simple_English_Wikipedia 



--
Mathias Damour
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http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Effectiveness of meetings (Was: Affcom ...)

2013-05-14 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 14/05/2013 13:39, Lodewijk a écrit :

(...)
Based on these desired outcomes, you can estimate up front if the meeting
is likely to be 'worth it'. If not, you can reduce the costs, increase the
outcomes (different setup) or cancel all together.


2013/5/14 Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org


The second relevant question is, in my opinion, whether the WMF travel policy
is good, proportional etc. This policy has mostly received criticism from
two sides - some think it is too elaborate, and WMF should get 'less
luxury' (again fair discussion, but we should then focus on the whole
question) - another criticism is that it should be equalized for all
Wikimedia-sponsored trips, including individual engagement grants, trips to the 
chapters meeting etc. When this question was brought up last time, I
believe it was Sue who mentioned that this would simply result in much less 
travel and participation. Again, a fair question.


this would simply result in much less travel !!! Well, less travel, 
not only cost control, could be a justifiable objective itself.
I mean that to convert the donations to Wikimedia into burning vast 
amounts of under-taxed kerosene is definitely not an environmentally 
friendly and responsible way to run the Wikimedia movement.


I personally went to the chapter meeting in Milan rather than insist on 
attending the next Wikimania in good part because I could get there by 
train.


--
Mathias Damour
49 rue Carnot
F-74000 Annecy
00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56
00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51
mathias.dam...@laposte.net
http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays

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[Wikimedia-l] And content - Re: WikiReaders4Kids

2013-05-05 Thread Mathias Damour

Hi,

How should be token into consideration the low readability of Wikipedia, 
which was pointed out by some recent studies, as far as this device is 
devoted to children ?

https://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/11/29/wikimedia-research-newsletter-november-2012/#Readability_of_the_English_Wikipedia.2C_Simple_Wikipedia.2C_and_Britannica_compared

There is Simple English Wikipedia as far as English is concerned. For 
other language, there is the *Wikikids* proposal that has had some 
activity recently and 2 or 3 existing and well running wiki for children.
That's about setting a frame pulled after the existing wikis for kids, 
to make good work, associate potential editors (including children), and 
then (notably ;-)) to supply a WikiReaders4Kids with suitable and 
quality content a few years later !
Present step is to assemble a comparison between those existing wikis to 
help to work out what should be the basic principles for such a project.

Have a look at it !
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids

Le 05/05/2013 06:27, Victor Grigas a écrit :

Hello everyone,

My partner and I just started a campaign on Indiegogo.com to raise funds to
buy all remaining WikiReaders and distribute them to schools and kids in
places that don't have internet at no charge to the schools and kids.

The campaign is here:
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-us-distribute-wikireaders-to-kids

The video is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j07ROeiaFg0

Please consider funding the campaign and if you can't fund the campaign,
please share the link with others!

While I am an employee of the Wikimedia Foundation, I am doing this
entirely as a volunteer.

Thanks!


--
Mathias Damour
49 rue Carnot
F-74000 Annecy
00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56
00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51
mathias.dam...@laposte.net
http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays

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[Wikimedia-l] Next one ? Re: Wikimedia Travel Guide: Board statement

2012-09-07 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 06/09/2012 15:21, Alice Wiegand a écrit :

Hi all,

on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following
statement about the travel guide RfC
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide :


Through the RfC, it is clear our community has reached consensus in
favor of the creation of a travel guide. The Board supports the
community decision to create a dedicated project (...)


That's fine!
They could be a next one, if it meets adequate resolution. That would be 
will be Wikikids/Vikidia.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids

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Mathias Damour
49 rue Carnot
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00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56
00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51
mathias.dam...@laposte.net
[[User:Astirmays]]
http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays

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