No, not related in the least.
He's probably talking about a recent situation discussed at this ML where a
WMF employee at T emergency role directed someone complaining of
harassment to the AN/I because they thought it was the appropriate venue.
Amir Sarabadani escreveu no dia terça, 25/08/2020
And there never was any insult or anything close to that, just a
misunderstanding, which I believe was clarified.
A terça, 23 de jun de 2020, 08:56, revi escreveu:
> > 2020. 6. 23. 14:13, Gnangarra 작성:
> > Nat insulted an ESEAP
> > affiliate because she wanted a European affiliate
(Just reminding that Nat was not elected by the community, as Gnangarra
seems to think, but by the affiliates.)
Jan-Bart de Vreede escreveu no dia segunda,
22/06/2020 à(s) 17:26:
> Hi Gnangarra
> I find your request for Nat to resign uncalled for…. and not in the least
> because of the
Thank you very much for managing to put out a statement in a reasonable
timeframe, despite the harsh conditions most of all endure now. I can only
imagine how hard it has been to get to that.
Above all, thank you a lot for the sincerity and for the courage on taking
a blame that I'm
Why after all this time, and after all the convulsions that have happened,
AffCom candidates are still being selected by AffCom itself, instead of by
the community, or other more legitimate process?
You wrote: " As a reflection of our commitment to openness, transparency,
Why do you ask? Unregistered readers are some kind of inferior creatures
not worth of any attention?
Registering an account and logging in is optional in Wikimedia.
Robert Fernandez escreveu no dia segunda,
4/05/2020 à(s) 16:27:
> I know this might sound crazy, but have you considered
In the first days of the pandemic, while trying to read info on my
cellphone, where I'm usually logged out, I was bombed first with that ugly
black thing signed by Katherine Maher, then in the next page I navigated
to, with a red message directed at "my friend from Portugal", both of them
Please don't use the "coronavirus pandemic" misnomer, at least in the
version in Portuguese.
"Coronavirus" is a group of virus, not the disease. It's proper name is
COVID-19. Using that misnomer is akin as calling "retrovirus epidemic" to
AIDS, and fertile ground for all kinds of fake news, such
15/03/2020 à(s) 22:01:
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 21:07, Paulo Santos Perneta
> >> Covid is an abreviaton for coronavirus disease.
> > No, it's an abbreviation for *Coronavirus Disease 2019* 
> That would make "COVID-19" mean
I photographed the COVID-19 isolation room at our local university (it's
precisely in front of the cabinet I usually work in), and created the
category for COVID-19 isolations:
Yaroslav Blanter escreveu no dia domingo,
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 14:56 Paulo Santos Perneta
> > Congratulations for the new project.
> > Possibly you could start by moving the "coronavirus" pandemic articles at
> > wiki.en to the proper name of the
Congratulations for the new project.
Possibly you could start by moving the "coronavirus" pandemic articles at
wiki.en to the proper name of the disease, COVID-19.
No idea why the English Wikipedia insists naming this disease with the name
of a group of virus that causes a number of other
Some established users have the habit of reverting every edit by IPs and
newbies in the articles they watch - often with the special reversion tool
- no mater the content and value of the edition. That is a very consistent
behavior I've been observing over more than one decade at the Wikipedia in
The OP is misleading. The issue is not with Commons at all, but with OTRS.
As far as I know, Commons never, ever, deleted a file which was in use in
any Wikimedia project, with the notable expectation of copyvios. Otherwise,
use in *any* wikimedia project = on scope for Commons.
on that. But the onwiki
situation is pretty much awful.
Raymond Leonard escreveu no dia terça,
25/02/2020 à(s) 19:40:
> I hope I am one of those "rare exceptions" that Paulo Santos Perneta writes
> about. I also wish that welcoming would be neither rare or exception
As a rule, (at least) in Wikipedia, with very rare exceptions, established
communities of editors treat newbies as unwelcome invaders.
No idea how to solve that, since it's a problem related to the nature of
humane beings, not something technical.
But the result is a very low rate of retention,
I'm not that familiar with the photosubmissions OTRS queue, and I've no
idea if we have that rule internally on OTRS.
But it surely seems a weird rule. Anything that is on scope to Commons -
which is the case for anything used in Wikdiata too - should be accepted in
I knew this was a possibility, but it still is a big surprise for me that
the WMF has not recognized the enormous value and potential of Wikimedia
Space, which was a space incredibly more friendlier and easier to use than
anything I've ever seen onwiki. As we discussed last November
publicity the page gets in the month of December.
> > Next year I will try to put it on the news section of the meta home page
> > sooner.
> > Alessandro
> > Il giovedì 23 gennaio 2020, 01:14:00 CET, Paulo Santos Perneta <
are so many candidates considering the limited
> publicity the page gets in the month of December.
> Next year I will try to put it on the news section of the meta home page
> Il giovedì 23 gennaio 2020, 01:14:00 CET, Paulo Santos Perneta &l
Not sure this made it to the Wikimedia-L - I couldn't find it easily, at
least. But the candidates for the new mandate in AffCom are under
discussion now (and have been for some time already.
Interested ppl, please follow the link and comment/endorse/ask questions to
What websites are you talking about, Gerard? I couldn't get that part.
Africa is way more engaged and active that the impression that often passes
to the rest of the movement, and I believe that the WMF staff that went to
Wiki Indaba has noticed that (it was impossible not to notice it, IMO). I
Congratulations to all Malian Wikimedians, it's really great to have one
more affiliate from Africa! :D
Isaac Olatunde escreveu no dia sexta, 8/11/2019
> Congratulations to Wikimedians of Mali. We look toward to collaborating
> with you.
> On Fri, Nov
> Kind regards
> Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 19:16 Uhr schrieb Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > Hi Farhad,
> > Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight.
> > The advantages at an organizati
Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight.
The advantages at an organizational level are quite obvious, indeed, and
it's a smart way to deal with those membership limitations.
I'm glad that the WMF & Wikimedia is abandoning the very rigid chapter
model as the
a multiplication of affiliates which are basically
cells or clones of one of them.
If this is safeguarded, cell-style affiliates probably can become a nice
Paulo Santos Perneta escreveu no dia sábado,
5/10/2019 à(s) 00:45:
> "*1) if a group has more active cores, may
> curious what tipped the scale).
> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 3:01 AM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > This is a very interesting strategy for any well developed affiliate. It
> > allows :
ome in from
> > of Nevsky (a neighborhood in St. Petersburg).
> > Lodewijk
> > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:29 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > paulospern...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Wikimedia NYC is a ver
basically a cell.
Yuri Astrakhan escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019
> What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational status)
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > Wal
Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't believe
it compares with a city UG.
Andy Mabbett escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019
> On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta
> > Why isn't it a department of W
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:46 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's
>> basically a cell of Wikimedia Russia?
>> It's a curious precedent.
Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's basically
a cell of Wikimedia Russia?
It's a curious precedent.
Asaf Bartov escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019 à(s)
> Ziko: Yes, it is about the major Russian city. And one of its listed
> contacts is the
A surprising amount of staff turnover, and the relation between WMF and the
communities extremely eroded by a row of bad moves and general bad attitude.
I was told I'm too new to this, and it was worst during superprotect, but
it's still mind-boggling why what was supposed to be a symbiotic and
> On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 at 18:08, Paulo Santos Perneta
> > " A second iteration of draft recommendations  was published on Meta
> > just before the sprint for
> > the communities’ information." - It's quite unclear what are we supposed
" A second iteration of draft recommendations  was published on Meta
just before the sprint for
the communities’ information." - It's quite unclear what are we supposed to
do with this, since those recommendations most probably became outdated in
the course of the Tunis meetings in the days
I've no idea what you mean by " second iteration". I was told by Work Group
members that those are the recommendations that were used as starting
points for the discussions by the Work Groups at Tunis last weekend.
Therefore, all that is most probably outdated stuff by now (it was already
Are you planing to include Portuguese in the list of target languages?
Gregory Varnum escreveu no dia segunda,
23/09/2019 à(s) 18:32:
> I am not entirely sure how this connects to the topic of the thread.
> However, I feel I should note that we are indeed interested
I totally support Illario words: "if the option is to pay 500 long travels
for scholarships by flight to attend a single event or to pay 500 travels
for the staff of WMF to attend several regional conferences, the answer
will be in favor of the second option which is more sustainable and
How and where can one request enabling this at the Portuguese Wikipedia?
James Forrester escreveu no dia sexta,
20/09/2019 à(s) 02:01:
> On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 17:16, Steven Walling
> > How do we see which wikis have partial blocks deployed already / are
> > planning to
If there will be a new discussion (and rightly so), what happens to the
"harmonization sprint in Tunis on 20-22 September" mentioned by Nicole in
I don't believe there will be much to harmonize between the new discussion
with the community takes place.
I only started following WMF stuff more closely around 2 years ago, but I
don't remember it being this permanent state of crisis as it is now, with
an ever increasing - now, apparently at an accelerating pace too -
detachment from the onwiki communities.
This is tiresome and distracting for those
After the last disastrous WMF intervention in Wikipedia - Framgate - I
believe the timing is just perfect for the WMF to go forward with this fit
of creativity of branding themselves as the "Wikipedia Foundation".
It's one after another, and never stops.
Yaroslav Blanter escreveu
not approve some of the recommendations". You may recall
> > > >> just
> > > >>>> five years ago, Jan-Bart de Vreede, then chair of the WMF Board,
> > > >>> expressed
> > > >>>> the opinion
> > >
> > >>>> over
> > >>>> a much less dramatic change.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> All of this is going to require change, chang
understand that if you decide to take
> >> wiki-break, that might be the way things have to be. Even so, you have
> >> let the Foundation do its work and allow us all to take that next step
> >> when
> >> needed. I can only hope that your break is
let the Foundation do its work and allow us all to take that next step when
> needed. I can only hope that your break is temporary, and that you will
> return when the time is right.
> I presume this is a good summary of the WMF position today.
> On Fri, Aug 2
If I've well understood the timeline, all input from the Wikimedia
community ceases in mid September. Then it's all defined by the WGs 8and
their advisors), and eventually decided upon by the BoT around December.
Therefore, after 15 September or so, the Wikimedia community will only be
Glad to have someone from CC onboard, welcome Ryan!
Katherine Maher escreveu no dia terça, 13/08/2019
> Hi everyone,
> I’m excited to let you all know that Ryan Merkley, formerly CEO of
> Creative Commons, is joining the Wikimedia Foundation as my new chief of
Aug 14, 2019 at 6:38 PM Paulo Santos Perneta
> > If they don't have legal resources, then it is pointless to use NC ND for
> > the content, as they will not be suing anyone that ignores the license
> > commercializes it anyway.
> In practice,
I subscribe Ziko's request to redefine the timeline of Strategy 2030, for
the stated reasons. Not only it looks absurd, looking at the quality of the
published materials, which are obviously not fit for a final discussion on
this mater, but also because there's no rush to present results already
> first, with uncertain outcome.
> (I must admit that I haven’t yet read the articles linked in the draft,
> so this email is phrased rather vaguely. I hope it still makes sense.)
> On 14.08.19 23:51, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote:
> > Al
All this stuff about misappropriation and unwanted commercial use of
certain content which is being used to justify the inclusion of NC/ND CC
licenses in Commons and other Wikimedia projects, really isn't Wikimedia
concern. If some communities object to certain types of use on content
" I don't want people to feel that their ideas are being casually
dismissed" - Don't worry, it is not "their ideas. As Nicole Ebber
explained, those recommendations resulted from a lot of different inputs,
and none of them is supposed to be the brainchild of anyone inside the WGs.
If they are
" To distribute many of the function now at WMF in SF to different
locations in the world (whereof 50% in Global south)" - Distributing work
now being paid with US wages to US staff at SF to people at the Global
South paying "Global South wages" sounds a lot like moving the factories
Those are really great news to the "health" of our movement,
congratulations and thanks to all those who helped making this a reality! :D
Shani Evenstein escreveu no dia quarta, 31/07/2019
> Thank you, Kirill, and all who have been involved in making this a
Splendid news, congratulations Wikipedians of Goa!! :D
Frederick: It was really great and a privilege meeting you at CC Global
Summit. We at WMPT are very much looking forward to partner with you in
Wikimedia projects, specially those related to lusophony!
Looks way nicer than the previous version. The thing always moving may be a
little bit annoying after some time, maybe it could have a stop button, and
it would be nice if we could slide it on our will. But the drawing is very
+1 to change the bright canary yellow box to a more
Reading about these developments in India has been absolutely painful, and
a sad reminiscent of a number of past situations.
Most of all, the case with Wikimedia Portugal, when AffCom started imposing
restrictions and "mediation plans" without having any kind of official
hearing with the
What exactly has the English Wikipedia accepted? As far as I know we don't
known on what the WMF thinks they failed. It is just speculation and
A quinta, 4 de jul de 2019, 10:11, Gerard Meijssen <
> I am astounded that you
The files were mainly kept because most of them were considered to be
utilitarian objects, but IMO the rationale was correct, as all of them are
modern props from the Lord of the Rings movie series.
Personally, I think it could be interpreted or construed as some kind of
petty revenge from Fram
Not really demonizing WMF, but healthily not trusting at face value what
they say, specially given WMF quite messy record at that.
The WMF interference in that Wikipedia community was completely out of
process, and to the moment lacking any justification worth of that name.
IMO it is OK for that
seems to be in a not wiki way and strictly controlled (by the
A quarta, 26 de jun de 2019, 11:32, Lucas Werkmeister <
> Why do you consider Wikimedia Space a closed platform?
> On 26.06.19 11:
I also generally discuss what I can offwiki (using a number of channels,
but mainly Telegram) , and leave to onwiki discussions what is strictly
necessary, but it has much more to do with the slowness and lack of
usability of the wiki talk system, than with a toxic environment.
That being said,
There seems to be a trend on the part of the WMF, however, both to try to
control onwiki Wikimedia communities (wiki.en current case), and at the
same time divert part of the communities to closed platforms under direct
or indirect WMF control.
I'm also not sure anymore that Wikimedia volunteers
> another thread.
> Thank you,
> Il giorno ven 21 giu 2019 alle ore 16:05 Paulo Santos Perneta <
> paulospern...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>> False accusation with the respective punishment, that is
False accusation with the respective punishment, that is. If it was just a
false accusation I would not care that much about it, though I obviously
dislike being falsely accused.
A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 15:01, Paulo Santos Perneta <
trained and responsible professionals over
> the popularity contests of the mob any day.
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 4:56 AM Paulo Santos Perneta
> > Taking everything and their dog as "harassment", without due process to
> > verify it, and iss
Taking everything and their dog as "harassment", without due process to
verify it, and issuing punishments one can't appeal based on that, creates
a feeling of fear and insecurity in the events; and provides a tool easy to
abuse by clever persons who understood how to game the system, as a vehicle
I am very sad and depressed with this outcome, especially with someone as
Romaine, which I am quite lucky to know personally.
And it is very true that now one has to have eyes in their back and be
extra careful when going to WMF run events, as the risk of abuse of T is
end of story, if not for the T interference.
Dariusz Jemielniak escreveu no dia segunda, 17/06/2019
> Hi Paulo,
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:54 PM Paulo Santos Perneta wrote:
> " I'm referring to message from Caroline" - How have you jumpe
er words, the best way to ban anyone from any event is to start a
> rumour about them?
> My understanding is that noone was banned from an event.
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> paulospern...@gmail.com<mailto:paulospern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
if people are killed or
Amir Sarabadani escreveu no dia segunda, 17/06/2019
> Are you comparing banning someone to participate at conference(s) with
> hanging innocent people?
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:34 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
" In other words, the best way to ban anyone from any event is to start a
rumour about them" - that's Wikimedia version of the Salem witch trials.
Unbelievable that this sort of thing is coming from one of the WMF
trustees, even as a personal opinion.
Michel Vuijlsteke escreveu no dia
I've read and reread the WMBE message, and have not found anything near
"pushing people who felt harassed or mistreated to step forward".
I also do not understand why you're addressing WMBE as "Romaine" (begging
Can you please clarify?
What is that "strategic direction", and where was it agreed?
Peter Southwood escreveu no dia segunda,
17/06/2019 à(s) 08:20:
> " Previously a strategic direction has been agreed."
> Not by that many. It is so vague that it can be interpreted to mean
> whatever the WMF want it to mean and
How is banning an user for 1 year for secrete reasons a "bold step"?
What's the educative value of it? How does it advance any of those
strategic objectives you mention there?
Ad Huikeshoven escreveu no dia domingo, 16/06/2019
> We are in a turbulent episode on this mailing
ng banned from a website
> over bad conduct issues. You need not reply -- I'm done with this portion
> of the conversation.
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 1:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have never said that this is a human rights violation, s
penal offenses." Unless
> Fram is getting locked up in prison for his actions, let's drop the absurd
> hyperbole that this is somehow a human rights violation.
> Dan Rosenthal
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 11:35 AM Paulo Santos Perneta <
People shouldn't be going with any random option, but rather presume the
innocence of others unless guilt is proven by some legit process.
It seems that this very basic principle of Human Rights and dignity is
There is not the least appearance of due process happening there, but
Both systems are horrible. Secret trials punishing people who don't even
know they are being accused, and of what they are being accused, without
any chance to appeal afterwards, are nothing short of horrible and
inhumane. That, yes, is plain harassment against the victims of those
At this point, it certainly looks like that. That, and the "f*** Arbcom"
thing. If you know otherwise, please explain.
David Gerard escreveu no dia sexta, 14/06/2019 à(s)
> and you're *seriously* positing that the WMF would ban an admin for
> doing only what you describe?
r a system that we design or agree to implement.
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> P.S. I need to stop posting in this thread so that I do not exceed my limit
> of Wikimedia-l posts for the month, but my silence does not indicate lack
> of interest.
No idea what could be the relation with GamerGate and the current issue
onwiki at wiki en. Would you care to elaborate?
A quinta, 13 de jun de 2019, 19:53, David Gerard
> I think the problem is that the pathological people, having been
> called out on being pathological,
The inapposite and totally inapt intervention of the WMF, a la bull in a
china shop, caused a Streisand effect on the alleged harassment that is
stated to have take place. I do not knew the editor which has been pointed
as the source of the denounce, or if she has made any denounce at all, but
lly are Gamergaters,
> including editors with tools.
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 3:15 AM Chris Keating
> > On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:48 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Going there dismissing
and inflammatory comments does not seem like the wisest thing to
A quinta, 13 de jun de 2019, 08:15, Chris Keating <
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:48 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Going there
Going there dismissing the whole issue as a sexist mob doing GamerGate kind
of stuff, what was she expecting, really.
A quarta, 12 de jun de 2019, 22:39, Chris Keating <
> > So, pretty much every discussion is decided by those who choose to
like all the
aggressiveness I am seeing at wiki.en,but I can understand the revolt. I do
hope things improve.
A quarta, 12 de jun de 2019, 18:47, Robert Fernandez
> The board, including its community representatives.
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 1:38 PM Paulo Santos Perneta
> >> > >
> >> > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 5:46 PM Amir Sarabadani <
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > People who oppose the ban: Are you aware of all aspects and
> things Fram
the case there.
A quarta, 12 de jun de 2019, 14:51, Robert Fernandez
> Because the English Wikipedia community is a garbage fire, and is
> hellbent on demonstrating that this week.
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 9:16 AM Paulo Santos Perneta
ither can support or oppose the ban. As
> > > simple as that.
> > >
> > > So what should be done IMO. If enwiki wants to know more, a community
> > body
> > > can ask for more information, if body satisfy two things:
> > > - They had signed NDA not to disclo
of this particular ban but I believe WMF
> took the best decision in banning Fram considering the Foundation has acted
> approximately in dealing with similar issues in the past.
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 2:58 PM Paulo Santos Perneta
Lack of transparency from the WMF, whatelse is new.
I'm currently under a funding ban secretly decided (by who?) based on a
false accusation, without providing any evidence. Until now I'm waiting for
an explanation from the WMF. So, this sort of attitude doesn't surprise me
It is very
The affiliate was originally formed in 2008 as the wannabe chapter
Wikimedia Brasil, and made its life as a chapter until 2010 when it was
noticed that it was not incorporated nor had any intention of becoming
incorporated, and the whole thing was canceled.
Some of its members and new
ng to ensure there isn't a repeat
> of past breakdowns in community cooperation?
> Kind regards
> On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 10:50 AM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > I would like to correc
Paulo Santos Perneta escreveu no dia quinta,
30/05/2019 à(s) 15:40:
> Wonderful news!
> Brazil has been for long one of the world leaders in Wikimedia educational
> projects, with an excellent work on GLAMs, often in line wit
What is making me happy this week:
- Helping the NOVA SBE library organizing this great event scheduled for
- UG Wiki Movimento Brasil being recognized as a Wikimedia affiliate:
Brazil has been for long one of the world leaders in Wikimedia educational
projects, with an excellent work on GLAMs, often in line with the
educational projects, and generally with full Wikidata integration.
It is very rewarding to see the group recognized again as a full-right
the Wikimedia Foundation and the Wiki Movimento
Paulo Santos Perneta
Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be immediately directed
to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia commu
Hi Mister Thrapostibongles,
I would believe so. However, after knowing a case where a WMF staff was
fired after their denounce of such a situation caused a fuss in the target
community, I'm not so sure the WMF shares that understanding. Until there
is some strong standing from the WMF about such
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