Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation of Fae

2015-05-24 Thread Rui Correia
Dear Ad

What exactly was that about?
In what way has that contributed anything?

Puzzled,

2015-05-24 15:07 GMT+02:00 Ad Huikeshoven a...@wikimedia.nl:

 Hi all and Fae,

 One, I'm not a moderator on this list. Two, I do support civility and
 friendly space policies, Three, let's assume good faith, Four, Fae asks to
 be unmoderated and or asks for a rationale for moderation, Five I would
 like to see a rationale myself and or unmoderation of Fae.

 Have a nice and special Sunday,

 Ad

 Ad Huikeshoven

 Bestuurslid / Board member Wikimedia Nederland
 Internationaal / International Affairs
 Gemeenschap / Community

 tel.(+31) (0)70 3608510
 mob. (+31) (0)6 40293574

 Steun vrije kennis! Kijk op wikimedia.nl
 http://www.wikimedia.nl/pagina/doneren-aan-wikimedia-nederland
 *Postadres*: *
 Bezoekadres:*
 Postbus 167Mariaplaats 3
 3500 AD  Utrecht Utrecht

 ABNAMRO NL33 ABNA 0497164833 - Kamer van Koophandel 17189036

 2015-05-24 14:59 GMT+02:00 Fæ fae...@gmail.com:

  It has now been over a year that my email address was put on
  moderation (perhaps someone would like to provide a date, I have not
  trawled the archives). In the absence of any appeal process, I ask
  that this is lifted.
 
  My most recent email to this list has yet to be posted, it has been
  waiting for 9 days. Waiting for several days or over a week is now the
  norm for my rare posts to list. Though not one of my emails has ever
  been rejected from publication, this effectively makes communication
  impossible and amounts to an effective ban after being black-balled.
 
  Based on timing, I was put on moderation apparently due to Russavia's
  incivil posts to Wikimedia-l, not because of any email I have ever
  posted to this list that anyone can provide a link to, nor for any
  reason of incivility on my part. If I am to remain forever on
  moderation I ask that a clear rationale be given so that I can change
  the wording I use in emails to met whatever the list moderators
  believe is needed. At the current time I am completely in the dark as
  nobody will discuss this with me or provide examples.
 
  Thanks,
  Fae
  --
  fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copy and Paste Detection Bot

2015-04-04 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks James

Just out of curiosity, the other day I found two articles with a long
section with identical wording, only names and numbers had been
changed. Example:
The town of ... has a population of .. . The town is know for
its challenges in fighting poverty. According to local authorities,
trhey have undertaken housing and sanitation projects bla bla bla.

When I queried it, the author of the earlier article responded to say
that 'it was acceptable' so that beginners could find it easier to
start writing articles. From that I dug deeper and discovered that he
had tutored the writer of the derived article.

Regards, and a great weekend,

Rui

2015-04-04 3:49 GMT+02:00 James Heilman jmh...@gmail.com:
 1) Yes the source code is available. User:Eran has posted it here
 https://github.com/valhallasw/plagiabot

 2) This bot ONLY works on new edits within a couple of hours of them
 occurring. This reducing the number of false positives. It DOES NOT look at
 old edits.

 3) This requires human follow up and common sense. One needs to make sure
 that a) the source is not PD/CCBYSA b) that it is not wiki text that has
 been moved around c) that the authors of both are not the same, etc

 4) True positive rate is around 50% which is from my perspective good /
 useful. This bot has flagged a lot of copyright issues would have been
 missed otherwise.

 --
 James Heilman
 MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

 The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
 www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copy and Paste Detection Bot

2015-04-03 Thread Rui Correia
Hi James

I often suspect copy-paste and find exact matches of the text
elsewhere. However, whereas one can painstakingly (unless there is a
trick that I am not aware of)  ascertain when text was enetered into
an article, it is not always possible to know when the other text
first appeared on the internet to know for sure who coppied who. From
my limited knowledge, I believe that some trace of the date of upload
must be retained somewhere in the code - will this bot be able to pick
up on that and provide a date?

Thanks and congratulations to all involved and for sharing.

Regards,

Rui

2015-04-03 11:07 GMT+02:00 James Heilman jmh...@gmail.com:
 The new and improved version of the copy and detection bot that we at [[WP:
 MED]] have been using for nearly a year [
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:EranBot/Copyright here] is nearly ready
 to be expanded to other topic areas.

 It can be found here [
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:EranBot/Copyright/rc]. If you install
 the common.js code it will give you buttons to click to indicate follow up
 of concerns. Additionally one can sort the edits in question by
 WikiProject. We are working to set up auto-archiving such that once
 concerns are dealt with they will be removed from the main list.

 We also want to have automatic compilation of data such as the frequency of
 true positives and false positives generated by the bot. A blacklist of
 sites that are know mirrors of Wikipedia is here [
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:EranBot/Copyright/Blacklist]. As this
 list is improved / expanded the accuracy of the bot will improve. Many
 thanks to [[User:ערן]] for his amazing work.

 The bot also has  the potential to work in other languages.

 --
 James Heilman
 MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

 The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
 www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Adding your own works as sources possible conflict of interests

2015-03-21 Thread Rui Correia
Hi Peter

Thanks for your reply.

I was not aware that there might be that much difference from one Wp
to another, but, yes, I am referring to the English WP. The editor
himself added his name in a post, in one other post another editor
refers to him by name. From there, googling his name leads to
publications that establish his association with the publisher.

Regards,

Rui

2015-03-21 17:01 GMT+02:00 Peter Southwood peter.southw...@telkomsa.net:
 Rui,
 I think this is a Wikipedia policy issue, and the policy may differ depending 
 on which Wikipedia is involved.
 In the case of en: I speak under correction, but as far as I remember this 
 would be considered a conflict of interests. I don’t know what you consider 
 overwhelming proof of identity, but what constitutes sufficient evidence has 
 led to a large number of acrimonious disagreements in the past, and the 
 policy against publicly identifying a user and that of proving COI are 
 mutually incompatible with the general preference for transparency of process.
 Cheers,
 Peter

 -Original Message-
 From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org 
 [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Rui Correia
 Sent: 21 March 2015 04:06 PM
 To: Wikimedia Mailing List
 Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Adding your own works as sources  possible conflict 
 of interests

 Dear All

 if this is the wrong place to post this, please accept my apologies.

 If a scientist has published works - papers and books - on a specific area of 
 expertise, and that scientist is also a Wikipedia editor, USING a made up 
 username

 1. can they use/ cite their own works as sources and base arguments on those 
 sources?

 2. should they disclose somewhere (user page) that they are in fact the 
 author of the works? This would mean that the link between username and real 
 name would be established.

 3. If they have a close relationship with a major source - such as 
 Britannica, CIA fact book, National Geographic - and repeatedly use and 
 defend the use of that source, should they disclose the relationship? By 
 close relationship I mean they are part of the team of expert consultants, 
 they are otherwise involved in the reegular activities of the publisher, they 
 defend the publisher in public foruns on the internet, they publish regularly 
 in the name of the publisher.

 4. And if said user denies that they are the same person as the author, 
 depite overwhelming proof in the WP and the internet?

 Does any of these situations constitute a conflict of interests and should 
 they come clean and disclose the association?

 Any constructive constributions via the list or directly to my address will 
 be welcome.

 Regards,

 Rui Correia

 --
 _
 Rui Correia
 Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant Bridge to Angola - 
 Angola Liaison Consultant

 Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186 Número de Telemóvel na África 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Adding your own works as sources possible conflict of interests

2015-03-21 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks, Geni

I just wanted to hear a few opinions before making it 'official' by
taking it up on a notice board. I will try the list you suggest.

Regards,

Rui

2015-03-21 18:53 GMT+02:00 geni geni...@gmail.com:
 On 21 March 2015 at 15:22, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Peter

 Thanks for your reply.

 I was not aware that there might be that much difference from one Wp
 to another, but, yes, I am referring to the English WP.



 The English Wikipedia has an adequate selection of noticeboards where you
 can ask such a question or alternatively it has its own mailing list:

 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


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[Wikimedia-l] Adding your own works as sources possible conflict of interests

2015-03-21 Thread Rui Correia
Dear All

if this is the wrong place to post this, please accept my apologies.

If a scientist has published works - papers and books - on a specific
area of expertise, and that scientist is also a Wikipedia editor,
USING a made up username

1. can they use/ cite their own works as sources and base arguments on
those sources?

2. should they disclose somewhere (user page) that they are in fact
the author of the works? This would mean that the link between
username and real name would be established.

3. If they have a close relationship with a major source - such as
Britannica, CIA fact book, National Geographic - and repeatedly use
and defend the use of that source, should they disclose the
relationship? By close relationship I mean they are part of the team
of expert consultants, they are otherwise involved in the reegular
activities of the publisher, they defend the publisher in public
foruns on the internet, they publish regularly in the name of the
publisher.

4. And if said user denies that they are the same person as the
author, depite overwhelming proof in the WP and the internet?

Does any of these situations constitute a conflict of interests and
should they come clean and disclose the association?

Any constructive constributions via the list or directly to my address
will be welcome.

Regards,

Rui Correia

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Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] proportion of wiki size to what?

2015-01-25 Thread Rui Correia
Hi Amir

What exactly do you want from this? Is this just some personal
curiosity or are you going to do someting with it?

And by the way, you forgot bots - the article counts for some of the
WP are driven by bots - the Dutch WP, for example.

Rui

2015-01-26 4:05 GMT+02:00 Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il:
 (And yes, I know that Language planning and some of the other items are not
 measurable as numbers. I'm throwing ideas around.)


 --
 Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
 http://aharoni.wordpress.com
 ‪“We're living in pieces,
 I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

 2015-01-25 17:57 GMT-08:00 Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il:

 Hi,

 It is well-known that the size of a Wikipedia in a given language is not
 proportional to the number of people who speak that language. By size I
 mean the article count and the active editor count.

 This begs the question: Is it proportional to anything else?

 I can think of a bunch of possible things (to most items you can add ...
 in the countries where this language is spoken):

 * Penetration of Internet access
 * Quality of education
 * Number of people who know other major languages, such as English,
 French, Russian, Spanish, etc.
 * Number of people who *don't* know other major languages
 * Gross domestic product
 * Human Development Index
 * The level of usage of this language in the education system (in some
 countries schools function in foreign languages)
 * Amount of published literature in that language
 * Level of censorship and press freedom
 * [[Language planning]] policies (think Catalonia, Ukraine, Quebec, Israel)

 It is quite possible that the size of a Wikipedia is proportional not to
 one of these things, but to a combination of them. It is also possible that
 it is not proportional to any of the above, or to anything at all.

 Did anybody ever try to research this?

 --
 Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
 http://aharoni.wordpress.com
 ‪“We're living in pieces,
 I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

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[Wikimedia-l] Another list called has been created on Google

2015-01-11 Thread Rui Correia
Dear Colleagues

A few days ago I started received a number of emails from
[Wikimedia-l], which I found odd, as I had set my delivery satus to
no mail.

It turns out that the emails are not coming from
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, but from wikimedia-l
wikimedi...@googlegroups.com. However, the display name of the list
is simply Wikimedia-l, identical to the name of this list.

I find it perturbing that people could be duped into participating in
discussions on a forum other then what they thought was the case. This
borders on phishing, scamming, posing, pretending to be someone else
to get benefit out of it. In fact, in a number of jurisdictions it is
taken as a seriuos crime.

Said list was created by a user by the name of Toby Dollmann and he or
she has been adding people willy-nilly, regardless of whether they are
involved with Wikipedia/ Wikimedia or not and completely without thei
knowing about it, based on some event atended by a number of people,
who expressed desire for a list, an idea supported by three or four of
those people.

Any idea as to what could be done about this?

Best regards,

Rui

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Another list WITH IDENTICAL NAME AS THIS ONE has been created on Google

2015-01-11 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks for letting me know, Katie.

Rui



2015-01-11 15:42 GMT+02:00 Katie Chan k...@ktchan.info:
 Hi Rui,

 Yes, this is a known ongoing problem. See
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-January/076316.html
 
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-January/076411.html
 for 2 threads from earlier this week discussing this.

 Regards,

 Katie

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Another list WITH IDENTICAL NAME AS THIS ONE has been created on Google

2015-01-11 Thread Rui Correia
Dear All

My subject line was somehow 'edited' by the list software, which
removed the most crucial element: It was Another list called
[Wikimedia-l] has been created on Google. Wikimedia-l was removed
fronm the line. The email follows:

2015-01-11 15:11 GMT+02:00 Rui Correia correia@gmail.com:
 Dear Colleagues

 A few days ago I started received a number of emails from
 [Wikimedia-l], which I found odd, as I had set my delivery satus to
 no mail.

 It turns out that the emails are not coming from
 wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, but from wikimedia-l
 wikimedi...@googlegroups.com. However, the display name of the list
 is simply Wikimedia-l, identical to the name of this list.

 I find it perturbing that people could be duped into participating in
 discussions on a forum other then what they thought was the case. This
 borders on phishing, scamming, posing, pretending to be someone else
 to get benefit out of it. In fact, in a number of jurisdictions it is
 taken as a seriuos crime.

 Said list was created by a user by the name of Toby Dollmann and he or
 she has been adding people willy-nilly, regardless of whether they are
 involved with Wikipedia/ Wikimedia or not and completely without thei
 knowing about it, based on some event atended by a number of people,
 who expressed desire for a list, an idea supported by three or four of
 those people.

 Any idea as to what could be done about this?

 Best regards,

 Rui

 --
 _
 Rui Correia
 Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
 Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

 Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
 Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please report to Google [was Re: Warning: Wikimedia-l Google Group]

2015-01-11 Thread Rui Correia
Would it not be more practical to ask the list owner at Google to kill
his list and create a new one with a new name and to NOT add members
without their permission?

Rui

2015-01-11 15:39 GMT+02:00 Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com:
 I found the same issue. The best thing to do is to send a letter to the
 unsubscribe address from your various adresses (change the from field in
 Gmail), and it should do it. (Doesn't work for the opt out option for
 resubscribing.)

 Best regards,
 Bence

 On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Cristian Consonni kikkocrist...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 2015-01-10 10:56 GMT+01:00 Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org:
  This sounds silly, but somehow it seems quite hard to unsubscribe from
 this
  group, if you have multiple google accounts (google thinks you're trying
 to
  unsubscribe with an account that is not subscribed etc).

 (sorry for the maybe even sillier answer)
 Have you tried logging out and/or uising different browsers?

 Cristian

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reset the Internet

2014-06-02 Thread Rui Correia
Hi

Is this what is supposed to happen when you sign it?


{data:{success:true}}

Some coding error?

Rui



2014-06-02 9:42 GMT+02:00 Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk
:

 I think that a part of it is putting up another banner, to advertise
 privacy tools. That would presumably require community support and
 discussion before it could be done...
 On 2 Jun 2014 03:53, Moiz Syed ms...@wikimedia.org wrote:

  https://www.resetthenet.org/
 
  I see EFF, Reddit, FSF in the list of supporting organizations. Why isn't
  Wikimedia/Wikipedia part of this?
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[Wikimedia-l] So now the Wikipedia comes in handy to 'vouch' for 419 scams

2014-06-02 Thread Rui Correia
I expect to see an increase in these once the idea spreads

Rui

--
 *From:* Jourdan Hilaire
 *Sent:* Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:00 AM
 *To:* Jourdan Hilaire
 *Subject:* Grants

  I, Liliane Bettencourt Authenticate this email of 3.5M USD grant to you, 
 please view my link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liliane_Bettencourt and 
 Email me on bettencourtlilian...@rogers.com for more info






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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

2014-06-01 Thread Rui Correia
Jane

I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or access
to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we are
talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such equipment
only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many girls/
women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.

Rui


2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com:

 Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
 female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet
 and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
 with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
 filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to
 edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
 Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men,
 and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the
 same holding true for women in the UK:
 Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study
 http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944

 Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all
 people!) gave me for my birthday.

 2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com:
  Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100
  From: Fæ fae...@gmail.com
  To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first
   three   weeks]
  Message-ID:
   
 cah7nnd3meyllrfd+sss-trsajxrreq0uidom07m_9nx-oiq...@mail.gmail.com
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
 
  On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote:
  ...
  ... selects strongly against women.
  
   Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding
   wikitext than men?
 
  (Probably drifting to Increase participation by women)
 
  As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found
  this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New
  women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise, and
  though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax,
  given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article
  creation quite happily.
 
  There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues
  associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual
  difficulty of namespaces which mean that some webpages behave
  differently to others. None is something that appears to select
  strongly against women, though the encyclopedia's way of defining
  notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s
  professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods tend
  to be biased towards men.
 
  If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for women
  than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone could
  provide a link?
 
  Fae
 
  FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had found
  research indicating that fewer women click the edit button than men do.
  That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and
  experimentation.
 
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_Tretikov.webm
 
 
  Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have funded a
  research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation.
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
 
  Pine
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

2014-06-01 Thread Rui Correia
Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that
neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone back
and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your friends
interact. For the life of me I thought that by interact you meant go on
the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in it
implied that you meant editing the WP.

And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as big
a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel
bakpack? ;-)

Rui


2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com:

 I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad

 2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com:
  Jane
 
  I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or access
  to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we are
  talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
 equipment
  only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
 girls/
  women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
 
  Rui
 
 
  2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com:
 
  Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
  female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet
  and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
  with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
  filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to
  edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
  Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men,
  and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the
  same holding true for women in the UK:
  Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study
  http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
 
  Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all
  people!) gave me for my birthday.
 
  2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com:
   Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100
   From: Fæ fae...@gmail.com
   To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
   Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first
three   weeks]
   Message-ID:

  cah7nnd3meyllrfd+sss-trsajxrreq0uidom07m_9nx-oiq...@mail.gmail.com
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
  
   On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote:
   ...
   ... selects strongly against women.
   
Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding
wikitext than men?
  
   (Probably drifting to Increase participation by women)
  
   As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found
   this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New
   women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise,
 and
   though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax,
   given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article
   creation quite happily.
  
   There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues
   associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual
   difficulty of namespaces which mean that some webpages behave
   differently to others. None is something that appears to select
   strongly against women, though the encyclopedia's way of defining
   notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s
   professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods tend
   to be biased towards men.
  
   If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for women
   than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone could
   provide a link?
  
   Fae
  
   FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had
 found
   research indicating that fewer women click the edit button than men
   do.
   That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and
   experimentation.
  
 
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_Tretikov.webm
  
  
   Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have funded a
   research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation.
   https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
  
   Pine
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

2014-06-01 Thread Rui Correia
I am not disputing that and don't for a second doubt that. ;-)

Down south here in South Africa interact would not be understood the way
she meant it.

So, I have learnt two things: that (interacting on WP), and grin as an
alternative for ;-)

A great week to all

Rui

PS: emoticons would not be a bad idea on the talk pages - they would
certainly alleviate tensions and tone down fights.


2014-06-01 21:16 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com:

 Hoi,
 grin Jane is in my top 1% of most accomplished Wikimedians /grin She is
 VERY effective on both Wikipedia, Commons and WIkidata.
 Thanks,
  GerardM


 On 1 June 2014 21:13, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:

  Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that
  neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone
 back
  and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your
 friends
  interact. For the life of me I thought that by interact you meant go
 on
  the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in
 it
  implied that you meant editing the WP.
 
  And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as
 big
  a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel
  bakpack? ;-)
 
  Rui
 
 
  2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com:
 
   I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
  
   2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com:
Jane
   
I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or
  access
to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we
  are
talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
   equipment
only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
   girls/
women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
   
Rui
   
   
2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com:
   
Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or
 tablet
and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to
edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than
 men,
and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the
same holding true for women in the UK:
Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
   
Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all
people!) gave me for my birthday.
   

_
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

2014-06-01 Thread Rui Correia
Hi Jane

I got it. ;-)

I am in a similar situation - as a translator, I sign up to a handful of
mutual help lists. On a daily basis, whatever the cry for help in whatever
language, someone will go to the WP and see what it says there (which of
course is great and great news). If the same article is of good quality in
any two languages, then it is better than any dictionary, as you can see
the terms that you are working with and you get to better understand the
concepts (if required - remember, members are translators, not necessarily
experts in the specific subject).

However, if the - in this case - Portuguese page is of poor quality, boy,
do you get the little group that goes on about it. However, try as I may, I
can't get them to donate a few hours to go and fix something that they
moaned about. Some have 'discovered' the discussion pages and click there
to see what I have been discussing with other editors.

Rui


2014-06-01 21:31 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com:

 Gerard, Thanks for the vote of confidence!
 Rui, I meant interact in the sense of user interface, so to edit
 Wikipedia, one must first interact with the edit button, something I
 have tried endlessly to get my friends to do. Instead, whenever they
 notice something wrong on Wikipedia, they call me. Though I am
 flattered that they think I know all aspects of several million
 articles, it does frustrate me that they think they are doing me a
 favor by telling me they found a mistake.

 My point is that given a finite number of hours to edit Wikipedia for
 any given person (male or female), the number of those hours spent on
 a handheld device will affect the productivity of those available
 hours in a negative way (like as in zero productivity - go try editing
 Wikipedia on a smartphone!).

 2014-06-01 21:16 GMT+02:00, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com:
  Hoi,
  grin Jane is in my top 1% of most accomplished Wikimedians /grin She
 is
  VERY effective on both Wikipedia, Commons and WIkidata.
  Thanks,
   GerardM
 
 
  On 1 June 2014 21:13, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that
  neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone
  back
  and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your
 friends
  interact. For the life of me I thought that by interact you meant go
  on
  the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in
 it
  implied that you meant editing the WP.
 
  And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as
 big
  a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel
  bakpack? ;-)
 
  Rui
 
 
  2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com:
 
   I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
  
   2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com:
Jane
   
I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or
  access
to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we
  are
talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
   equipment
only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
   girls/
women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
   
Rui
   
   
2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com:
   
Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of
female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or
tablet
and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact
with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as
filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not
 to
edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the
Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than
men,
and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about
 the
same holding true for women in the UK:
Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
   
Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of
 all
people!) gave me for my birthday.
   
2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine deyntest...@hotmail.com:
 Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100
 From: Fæ fae...@gmail.com
 To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The
 first
  three   weeks]
 Message-ID:
  
cah7nnd3meyllrfd+sss-trsajxrreq0uidom07m_9nx-oiq...@mail.gmail.com
 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote:
 ...
 ... selects strongly against women.
 
  Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty
  understanding
  wikitext than men?

 (Probably drifting to Increase participation by women)

 As someone

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-30 Thread Rui Correia
even finding the glaring typo you saw in a reference is nearly impossible
after you hit the edit button. -- Marc

Yes, it was, as references were getting longer and longer (almost to the
point of including the author's likesa and deslikes and what he or she had
for breakfast. That was 'solved' by the new ref=., that is really not
the easiest to figure out. And oddly enough, I don't ever see anywhere any
form of a tutorial on changes - such as the new ref method, hoveing
footnotes, etc.

Other then clicking edit on another page to see how it is done, there is no
gjuidance whatsoever.

Rui



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Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The first three weeks.

2014-05-30 Thread Rui Correia
Hi Aaron

This is really a treasure trove of information. I am looking forward to
savouring it in detail. Many thanks.

One question for now on Point 5: the 3rd graph with values 1 - are those
percentages? Is the decimal notation correct?

Regards,

Rui


2014-05-30 1:52 GMT+02:00 Aaron Halfaker ahalfa...@wikimedia.org:

 Hi Rui,

 You raised a lot of questions that I think I might be able to help address.
  I'm a research scientist working for the WMF.  My research focuses on the
 nature of newcomer participation, editor motivation and value production in
 Wikipedia.  See [1] and [2] (if you have the time) for my most seminal work
 on the subject.

 As you'll see in the study I referenced, my work directly addresses a
 substantial portion of the questions you've raised.  See also my team's
 work with standardizing metrics[3] including survival measures[4] and my
 work exploring retention trends in ptwiki[5].  See [6] for an example of a
 recent, cross-language study of newcomer article creation patterns.  Also,
 you might be interested in [7] since it confirms your general concerns
 about the speed of speedy deletions.

 A lot of the work of /really understanding Wikipedia/ is only half-way done
 since it takes a long time build understanding about previously
 undocumented phenomena.  The academic community, other researchers at the
 WMF and myself are in the middle of developing a whole field around how
 open collaboration systems like Wikipedia work, common problems they have
 and how they can be best supported.

 While we're developing this general knowledge about engagement, production
 and retention in our communities, we (the research  data team) are also
 working directly with product teams at the WMF to measure their impact on
 key metrics (e.g. participation) with scientific rigor and to
 challenge/develop/refine theory on which product strategies lead us toward
 our goals and which ones do not.  See [8] and [9] for examples of such
 studies.

 I welcome anyone who'd like to continue the conversation about what we do
 and don't know about Wikipedia(s) to raise discussions at
 wiki-research-l[10].  There are a lot more researchers on that list than
 wikimedia-l.  FWIW, I tend to follow that list more closely.

 1. Summary:
 http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/The_Rise_and_Decline/
 2. Full paper:

 http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/The_Rise_and_Decline/halfaker13rise-preprint.pdf
 3. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Analytics/Editor_Engagement_Vital_Signs
 4. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Surviving_new_editor
 5.

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Ideas/Is_ptwiki_declining_like_enwiki%3F
 6. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikipedia_article_creation
 7. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:The_Speed_of_Speedy_Deletions
 8.
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Onboarding_new_Wikipedians/Rollout
 9.

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:VisualEditor%27s_effect_on_newly_registered_editors/Results
 10. https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l

 -Aaron



 
   From: Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
   Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] The first three weeks.
   Date: May 29, 2014 at 5:07:45 AM PDT
   To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
   Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  
   Hi James
  
   Do we have any figures on retention of new editors? How long does the
   average new editor stay? What percentage of new editors stays on for 6
   months; one year; two years? Do we have these figures for all
 languages?
  
   New editors should be allowed space to grow. Wikipedia is so rich in
   developing all kinds of scripts, templates etc, that it would be easy
 to
   create something to inform others that someone is a new editor. Pages
 by
   new editors should be left alone for a day or two. There is nothing
 more
   disheartening than getting all excited about contributing only to find
  that
   someone comes along and either deletes your first attempt or nominates
 it
   for deletion. I've have seen this happen WITHIN MINUTES of the seminal
   version being posted, followed up by 'warnings' on the editor's talk
  page.
   I've seen edits reverted because the formatting of the source was
 wrong.
  It
   should be a basic pillar that before reverting, we see if we can
 improve/
   fix the problem. Undoing a newcomer's work and leaving something like
   WP:MOS as an edit summary is not helpful - if you are going to cite a
 WP
   policy, then do so by pointing directly to the specific page where the
  new
   editor can read about it. I know it is time-consuming to fill in edit
   summaries, especially if one is doing a series of identical edits to a
   whole lot of pages. But we can use technology to speed this up - on a
  blank
   edit summary, a prompt will suggest earlier text and you can select an
   applicable one. On an edit summary with a reference to the section

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The first three weeks.

2014-05-29 Thread Rui Correia
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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[Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread Rui Correia

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread Rui Correia
Hi Frederico

Neither of those answers my question. I doesn't tell me whether we are
bleeding new or old members. The reason for an editor of either group to
leave are different. All that that graph shows is that there has been a
frightful drop since 2007.

Rui


2014-05-29 15:28 GMT+02:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com:

 Rui Correia, 29/05/2014 15:01:

  Do we have any figures on retention of new editors?


 https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%
 3ASearchprofile=advancedsearch=retentionfulltext=
 Searchns202=1profile=advanced


  How long does the
 average new editor stay? What percentage of new editors stays on for 6
 months; one year; two years? Do we have these figures for all languages?


 In the end what retention matters for is http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/
 TablesWikipediansEditsGt5.htm

 Nemo


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Silly question? - What list is meant for what?

2014-05-21 Thread Rui Correia
Nemo

I am not sure I understand your cryptic message

Rui


2014-05-21 10:24 GMT+02:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com:

 Rui Correia, 21/05/2014 00:01:

  I realised a while back that I have in the past written to the Wikimedia
 Foundation Mailing List and to the Wikimedia Mailing List without een
 realising that I was writing to more than one list.


 Because you were not.
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Overview

 Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Silly question? - What list is meant for what?

2014-05-21 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks, Theo

Now it makes sense. And whereas I do appreciate the gesture of including
the link to the various lists, cryptic reply like that are just not
constructive.

Regards,

Rui


2014-05-21 13:52 GMT+02:00 Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com:

 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Nemo
 
  I am not sure I understand your cryptic message
 

 I believe he meant that you were writing to the same list. (Wikimedia-l was
 formerly Foundation-l, it was renamed a while ago by Erik). If you read in
 context, he was quoting you and then answering.

 The link he provided was to the meta page which gives an overview of the
 lists.

 As for info...@wikimedia.org - It's not a list, it's the OTRS address for
 contacting the Foundation indirectly and sending general inquiries,
 including copyright issues.[1]

 Regards
 Theo

 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us


  2014-05-21 10:24 GMT+02:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com:
 
   Rui Correia, 21/05/2014 00:01:
  
I realised a while back that I have in the past written to the
 Wikimedia
   Foundation Mailing List and to the Wikimedia Mailing List without een
   realising that I was writing to more than one list.
  
  
   Because you were not.
   https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Overview
  
   Nemo
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Silly question? - What list is meant for what?

2014-05-21 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks, that was insightful.

I'll be in touch off list if I feel the need.

Regards,

Rui


2014-05-21 22:18 GMT+02:00 quiddity pandiculat...@gmail.com:

 On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Hi
 
  I realised a while back that I have in the past written to the Wikimedia
  Foundation Mailing List and to the Wikimedia Mailing List without een
  realising that I was writing to more than one list. I do now vaguely
 recall
  once getting a response saying that what I wanted discusses would best be
  discussed on the Foundation List. And I see there is also a Wikipedia
  information team. And how do these, if at all, overlap with the Village
  Pump? And the Portals?
 
  Where could I find out more about what exactly is the purview of each of
  these forums?
 
 
 Hi Rui,
 There are so many thousands of us, working on so many aspects of so many
 projects, in so many languages, that we have hundreds of communication
 channels.
 Mailing lists:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Overview
 IRC:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Channels
 Village pumps at each wiki (eg English):
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VP
 Newsletters (eg English):
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:News
 etc.

 You can sign up for everything (and be deluged with information daily), or
 just ask each time, and hope someone friendly points you to the right
 specific location. (You're not a real Wiki*edian, until you've made and
 learned from 50 mistakes, as someone told me years ago. :)

 Basically, if it's a question about a single wiki, start off at that wiki's
 Help page or Village Pump. And starting off small, is often best, even for
 discussions that eventually grow to encompass multiple wikis. I don't know
 if there are any pages/guides detailing /when/ it is best to take a
 question to a mailing list.

 Portals (in the Enwiki sense) aren't really discussion hubs themselves.
 They're crossroad signposts or maps, giving an overview of a topic's
 content and backstage work (generally targeted at readers and new editors).



  Examples of the kind of issues and where to discuss:
 
  1. A simpler (automated) merge proposal template
  2. A simpler deletion proposal process
  3. Content issues that affect many articles (therefore talkpages are not
  efficient)
 
 
 For #3, the current method is WikiProjects. See further below, for more on
 those.

 The Flow https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow project aims to solve many
 other aspects of these example issues. It's the communication and
 collaboration system, currently being developed, with an initial focus on
 user-to-user discussions. It's built with the idea of being able to easily
 embed a single workflow (for discussions, this would be a Topic-thread)
 across multiple pages, and even multiple wikis.

 Later on (many months from now), they plan to create an abstract set of
 workflow components, so that each wiki can hook together the various APIs
 and other processes they have available, to make tasks that are currently
 very complicated and multi-step into a more efficient and seamless
 endeavour.

 Note that Flow is still in very early stages at the moment, and will change
 drastically over the coming months and years. There is a /lot/ of work to
 be done, and many avenues to explore. (E.g. There's a front-end overhaul
 coming in the next few weeks, based on the last few months of
 user-feedback, so the aesthetics will change drastically soon, with many
 further iterations and experiments to come afterwards.) Feedback on the
 talkpage is appreciated, with a long-term emphasis.



  Some of these I have brought up before on one of the lists.
 
  Right now I would like to make two further suggestions even if after this
  it turns out that I must do this on a different forum:
 
  1. A source ranking system - edit summaries are full of not a reliable
  source justifications. Can we not create a ranking system where editors
  rank each source on a scale of 1-10 and a programme automatically
  calculates that source a reliability value?
 
 
 Basically no, because humans are fallible and inconsistent! Unreliable
 [statements/articles] appear in generally reliable sources quite regularly.
 See
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:PEREN#Define_reliable_sourcesfor
 more details, and links.



  2. a) Keep me informed on this - often one issue is discussed on a
  multitude of pages (Bushmen/ Khoisan/ Khoi and San, is such an example)
 and
  it is difficult to keep track. Using any of the existing systems that
 group
  pages together - such as categories - could we not create a theme/ issue
  watchlist similar to the page wattchlist currently available?
 
 
 The existing possibility, is to create a list of pages (eg. in your
 userspace/subpage, or a wikiproject subpage), and then click the Related
 changes link in the toolbox. This will produce a watchlist-style view of
 just those pages. E.g.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki

[Wikimedia-l] Silly question? - What list is meant for what?

2014-05-20 Thread Rui Correia
Hi

I realised a while back that I have in the past written to the Wikimedia
Foundation Mailing List and to the Wikimedia Mailing List without een
realising that I was writing to more than one list. I do now vaguely recall
once getting a response saying that what I wanted discusses would best be
discussed on the Foundation List. And I see there is also a Wikipedia
information team. And how do these, if at all, overlap with the Village
Pump? And the Portals?

Where could I find out more about what exactly is the purview of each of
these forums?

Examples of the kind of issues and where to discuss:

1. A simpler (automated) merge proposal template
2. A simpler deletion proposal process
3. Content issues that affect many articles (therefore talkpages are not
efficient)

Some of these I have brought up before on one of the lists.

Right now I would like to make two further suggestions even if after this
it turns out that I must do this on a different forum:

1. A source ranking system - edit summaries are full of not a reliable
source justifications. Can we not create a ranking system where editors
rank each source on a scale of 1-10 and a programme automatically
calculates that source a reliability value?

2. a) Keep me informed on this - often one issue is discussed on a
multitude of pages (Bushmen/ Khoisan/ Khoi and San, is such an example) and
it is difficult to keep track. Using any of the existing systems that group
pages together - such as categories - could we not create a theme/ issue
watchlist similar to the page wattchlist currently available?

2. b) As an add-on to the above, an actual means of communication to
contact all editors working on a specific these - Asian languages, or
prehistoric art, for example.

Best regards,

Rui

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Task-oriented mailing lists

2014-05-20 Thread Rui Correia
Hi Quim

I just posted an email titled Silly question? Which list is meant for
what?. I wonder if you would have the time to weigh in on that on the last
point (2.a)) of the email.

Best regards,

Rui


2014-05-20 16:39 GMT+02:00 Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org:

 We are going to discuss Google Summer of Code and FOSS Outreach Program for
 Women in 90 minutes at #wikimedia-office -- join us!


 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Engineering_Community_Team/Meetings/2014-05-20
 On Tuesday, May 20, 2014, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote:

 this year in a Gsoc project, following a proposal by the student, we are
 using a dedicated mailing list for his project.

 I understand why you are deciding to create a mailing list, but at the same
 time I'm hoping that in the very near future situations like these can be
 solved with Phabricator, the tool that is planned to deprecate Bugzilla,
 Gerrit and several tools more.

 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Phabricator

 In fact, instead of creating a mailing list that will be surely ignored and
 forgotten by the rest of the community, I encourage you to run your
 short-term project with a clear deadline at http://fab.wmflabs.org/

 In a Phabricator project all the discussions can be organized around tasks.
 You can have a generic Planning Project X for the meta-discussion. This
 will give you a space for discussion integrated with project planning and
 code review.

 Phabricator allows you to assign tasks to more than one project, which
 means that in our production instance you will be able to mark tasks as
 bugs in other MediaWiki components. Another interesting feature is the
 possibility for users to subscribe to keywords. This means that having a
 task related to Python might bring the attention of other Python
 developers, even if they had no prior idea about the existence of your
 project.

 This way of working is a lot more efficient and sustainable than separate
 mailing lists for projects. I encourage you to give it a try! For what is
 worth, there is at least one GSoC project using Phabricator.

 Chemical Markup for Wikimedia Commons
 http://fab.wmflabs.org/project/view/26/

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[Wikimedia-l] Perhaps (love)

2014-05-10 Thread Rui Correia
Perhaps 


Perhaps and that is the sum-total of it. That is what we want!!! And
yet, some of us will die defeding its existence, while others  will die
proving it never existed

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[Wikimedia-l] Can't we simplify merge proposals?

2014-05-08 Thread Rui Correia
Can't we create a way that will simplify merge propsals into a simple
1-minute procedure? A template with:
Merger [Quercitrin] into [Quercitin], Motivation [bla bla bla] that would
automatically display the merge notice on all revelant pages?

Best regards,

Rui

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

2013-09-13 Thread Rui Correia
 be sued or arrested.
  
   The situation is the same for people working against mobbing in schools
   and companies. They are of course also public persons. Still I have
 never
   heard of anyone being attacked. The reason is the same as above. If
 these
   persons were anonymous it would partly look very stupid and partly they
   could not do their job properly.
  
   I do not see any reason why the situation wouldn't be the same for such
   an instance in the Wikis. As I said above the persons must be
   professional and hired by the Wikis, to get the right authority and
   respect. Where they are placed physically is not so important since
 there
   role is only to act within the Wikis (not in the society), perhaps one
   shouldn't choose Russia though.
  
   I really think that it also has a psychological role not to be
 anonymous.
   The method of mobbers and extreme political movements is to dehumanize
   it's opponents. They put a label on their enemies to make them not
 human.
   I think being anonymous works in the same direction. It deprives you of
   your identity and thus makes you easier to attack.
  
   Regards,
   Lars Gardenius
 
  Indeed; however, a number of other strategies are also used to dominate.
 
  Fred
 
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

2013-09-04 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks, Lars

Much appreciated.

Regards,

Rui


On 4 September 2013 23:35, Lars Gardenius lars.garden...@yahoo.de wrote:

 I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the Wiki-world
 that is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position.

 Regards,
 Lars Gardenius




 
  Von: Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
 An: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013
 Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself


 Greetings to All

 Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared to
 people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long list
 of to-do, but unfortunately time is not on my side.

 In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
 project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having to
 fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.

 In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
 fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
 process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
 previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
 resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the 'outsider'
 that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
 advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to temper
 his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round at
 a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making the
 WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.

 And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.

 I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
 encounters when you include something negative about certain big
 corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
 else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of yes, we know
 there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!.

 Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - was
 anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
 out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know that
 they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,

 http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles

 I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
 downgrade to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to XP.
 For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is an
 upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.

 I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending the
 entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not the
 first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
 nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
 closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on that
 page, but my entry was closed within minutes.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29

 It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.

 So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I don't
 do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
 languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number of
 initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see that
 things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
 South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.

 So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
 novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.

 Sincere regards to all, happy editing

 Rui Correia






 --
 _
 Rui Correia
 Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
 Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

 Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
 Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

2013-09-04 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks, Fred

Much appreciated.

Regards,

Rui


On 5 September 2013 01:16, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:

 It is addressed but by a rather complicated and demanding process. See
 Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Not really workable for new users who bump
 up against well-established users who have bad habits, or have learned
 that nasty behavior pays off in being able to control content.

 Fred

  I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the
  Wiki-world that is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position.
 
  Regards,
  Lars Gardenius
 
 
 
 
  
   Von: Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
  An: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013
  Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
 
 
  Greetings to All
 
  Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared
  to
  people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long
  list
  of to-do, but unfortunately time is not on my side.
 
  In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
  project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having
  to
  fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.
 
  In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
  fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
  process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
  previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
  resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the
  'outsider'
  that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
  advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to
  temper
  his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round
  at
  a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making
  the
  WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.
 
  And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.
 
  I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
  encounters when you include something negative about certain big
  corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
  else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of yes, we know
  there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!.
 
  Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly -
  was
  anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
  out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know
  that
  they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
 
 http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles
 
  I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
  downgrade to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to
  XP.
  For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is
  an
  upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.
 
  I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending
  the
  entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not
  the
  first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
  nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
  closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on
  that
  page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
 
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29
 
  It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.
 
  So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I
  don't
  do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
  languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number
  of
  initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see
  that
  things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
  South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.
 
  So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
  novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.
 
  Sincere regards to all, happy editing
 
  Rui Correia
 
 
 
 
 
 
  --
  _
  Rui Correia
  Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
  Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
 
  Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
  Número de Telemóvel na à frica do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Looking for Wikipedians to add already translated articles

2013-09-03 Thread Rui Correia
Hi James

I went to the page and I see that most of the Portuguese articles have To
evaluate next to them.

About To evaluate is says the following: Article needs to be evaluated by
a Wikipedian in that language ***to determine if translation is needed.

The article on schizophrenia, for example, was started on the 31st of
December 2004. How exactly does it need to be evaluated by a Wikipedian in
that language to determine if translation is needed?

Regards,

Rui






On 21 August 2013 01:12, James Heilman jmh...@gmail.com wrote:

 We at WikiProject Medicine are working on a collaborative effort with
 Translators Without Borders (TWB), a group which includes 2,000 or so
 volunteer translators. We are working to translate key medical articles
 into as many other languages as possible. Currently we have translated
 content into 50 or so languages amounting to 2.3 million words of text.

 The process involves first bringing articles to either GA or FA status in
 English. They are then delivered, with MediaWiki markup in place, to the
 TWB website where the text is sent out to the translators. Once translated
 we at Wikipedia are notified via orange links on this page here:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MED/Progress

 This issue currently is that we are missing Wikipedians in some languages
 to add / combine the translated content into the respective Wikipedia. Some
 of the article created through this process have reached feature article
 status including translations into Hungarian of anaphylaxis and
 hypertension. We currently have translated content in the following
 languages waiting to be integrated:

 Hindi

 Chinese

 Persian

 Tagalog

 Indonesian

 Macedonian

 Greek

 Bulgarian

 Danish

 Polish

 Swedish

 Arabic

 Ukrainian

 Dutch

 Czech

 Serbian

 Slovenian

 Spanish

 Telugu

 Tamil

 Punjabi

 Turkish

 Kurdish

 Thai

 Swahili

 Yoruba

 Kinyarwanda

 An overview of the efforts can be found here:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:TTF

 If you are interested in getting involved in adding translated articles
 instructions are here:


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Translation_task_force/Adding_content

 If you have further question or comments I would welcome the feedback.

 James Heilman

 MD, CCFP(EM), Wikipedian

 WikiProject Medicine

 The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
 www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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[Wikimedia-l] Why the WP will never be a real encyclopaedia

2013-08-01 Thread Rui Correia
Dear Colleagues at the Foundation

I just came across an artecle called White Africans of European ancestry.
What is that even supposed to mean?  Who would be any other white people
if not of Europen ancestry? What other white people (yes, WP has a
definition of white people could these be? Especially as it already says
on the talk page that Arabs don't count.


When we have 'white people' creating every conceivable article about 'white
people', but we have no 'Khoi' people writing about 'Khoi people, then we
can't call the WP an encyclopaedia. But them the rules do say - somewhere -
that just because  And those just because rules are all over the
place - you can't use what was done in one case to justify another similar
case because someone is bound to throw a just because rule at you. But
the just because ... rule applies only when it is convenient - the
corollary of the just because .. is I know more rules and tricks than
you and I will win this/ I will not allow you to have your way even if I
have to break all the rules and make new ones as I go along.

So, just because there isn't an artice about Khoi people living in
Denmark is no reason to not have an article about White Europens of
Europen descent livng in Patagonia or White Europens of Europen descent
livng in Timbaktu. We have allowed ourselves to fall victim of the digital
divide - the Khoi don't have computers and internet, white Europeans do.
That is not an encyclopaedia.

Why don't we have a page on Black Americans of African ancestry?
Or Black Europeans of African ancestry? Strangely enough, type Black
African and you get redirected to Black people, BUT the redirect actually
takes you all the way down to Africa - yes, the article on Black people
does not start with Africa, but with the United States, then Brazil 

Like I said, When we have 'white people' creating every conceivable article
about 'white people', but we have no 'Khoi' people writing about 'Khoi
people, ...

The same goes for the so-called Biographies of Living People. I had my
first clash on WP on the issue of the dual nationality of Nelly Furtado.
Two hundred million people see her as Portuguese, three - yes, 3 - editors
disagree and BRAG they will NEVER ALLOW it. The rationale changes, as can
be seen from the talk pages and archives. They go as far as 'challenging'
editors that NF sees herself as Portuguese, to then dismiss all the
evidence as not good enough - even Nelly HERSELF saying she is PORTUGESE
was thrown out! Why? Obvious! She doesn't count, she is not a NEUTRAL
source!!! We have become a joke!

How about being constructive?

If we can come up with every conceivable script in the world, why has
nobody come up with a script for controversial articles that would appear
on the the edit page - like the script that says the article is protected -
ALERTING unsuspecting editors to the fact that said article is cotroversial
for xand y reason, and that if the edit the editor is about to do falls
under that theme, to please first read the talk page, with a direct link
ALSO to an explanation on BLP and the issue of ethnic background/ present
nationality. It would save lots of wasted time and effort and the three
editors who spend sleepless nights reverting the artcile might actually do
something constructive for a change.

In closing, of the nine people featured in photos on that page, I know
(have met 5) and correspond with 2 - I can guarantee that all five of them
(and most likley all 9 [or the descendents of those no longer with us])
would object to being featured in such a racist article.

I will write to them about this. I know that each one is not a valid source
about him/ herself and therefore them objecting will probably not count.
Just as an side, in case you didn't know, the census in Brazil is done on
the basis of how people see themselves - white, back, green, pink - and
then we carry those figures here in the WP. Ah, sorry, those figures are
credible, because they come from the CIA fact book, people speaking for
themselves are not.


Best regards,

Rui
-- 
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant




-- 
_
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why the WP will never be a real encyclopaedia

2013-08-01 Thread Rui Correia
Denny

If you going to shoot me down as a troll, then I can say only that you are
one of those that refuse to see the elephant in the room. I am a journalist
(and a journalism trainer), I know that if I want others to read what I
have to say I need to come up a headline that will attract attention, while
at the same time abiding by age-old ethic standards - and I have done so.

Who controls what is said has become a big problem on the English and to a
degree the Portuguese WPs. Be fair to yourself, step back and just look at
some articles to see how many times a day they get reverted. The rot has
become endemic - there are so many people who do nothing but revert the
whole day without EVER contributing anything. Yes, I know that a lot of the
reverting is to undo the work of vandals with nothing better to do, but
most of it is done to preserve the view thae a specific article has
'acquired' through time.

Can you honesty tell me that you have not come across articles that are
'untouchable'? That you know they convey a view that is not entirely right,
but YOU and I cannot change it? Can you tell me that you have not come
across editors who are hell-bent on preserving this or that article just as
it is?

Rui

On 1 August 2013 22:40, Denny Vrandečić denny.vrande...@wikimedia.dewrote:

 Rui,

 if your basic assumption is that Wikipedia will never be a real
 encyclopedia because of the lack of diversity among its contributors, I
 would like to know of any other encyclopedia that is anywhere close to the
 diversity among its contributors that Wikipedia has (just a side-note, the
 original Encyclopédie had an even worse bias towards aristocratic, male
 French than Wikipedias does, as surprising as it sounds). So, which
 Encyclopedia do you consider a real encyclopedia at all?

 Also, never mind the fact that we already sport such a diversity -- we are
 actively aiming and striving for even more diversity, and we are not
 comparing us to the usually abysmal record of other encyclopedias, but
 merely to our own high, maybe even unreachable ideals.

 So, whereas I fully agree that there is a lot about Wikipedia that can be
 improved, I am not sure that a mail that starts with the statement Why the
 Wikipedia will never be a real encyclopedia deserves even the
 consideration that I offered you here, and is to be considered anything
 beyond trolling.

 All the best,
 Denny



 2013/8/1 Rui Correia correia@gmail.com

  Dear Colleagues at the Foundation
 
  I just came across an artecle called White Africans of European
 ancestry.
  What is that even supposed to mean?  Who would be any other white
 people
  if not of Europen ancestry? What other white people (yes, WP has a
  definition of white people could these be? Especially as it already
 says
  on the talk page that Arabs don't count.
 
 
  When we have 'white people' creating every conceivable article about
 'white
  people', but we have no 'Khoi' people writing about 'Khoi people, then we
  can't call the WP an encyclopaedia. But them the rules do say -
 somewhere -
  that just because  And those just because rules are all over the
  place - you can't use what was done in one case to justify another
 similar
  case because someone is bound to throw a just because rule at you. But
  the just because ... rule applies only when it is convenient - the
  corollary of the just because .. is I know more rules and tricks than
  you and I will win this/ I will not allow you to have your way even if I
  have to break all the rules and make new ones as I go along.
 
  So, just because there isn't an artice about Khoi people living in
  Denmark is no reason to not have an article about White Europens of
  Europen descent livng in Patagonia or White Europens of Europen descent
  livng in Timbaktu. We have allowed ourselves to fall victim of the
 digital
  divide - the Khoi don't have computers and internet, white Europeans do.
  That is not an encyclopaedia.
 
  Why don't we have a page on Black Americans of African ancestry?
  Or Black Europeans of African ancestry? Strangely enough, type Black
  African and you get redirected to Black people, BUT the redirect
 actually
  takes you all the way down to Africa - yes, the article on Black people
  does not start with Africa, but with the United States, then Brazil 
 
  Like I said, When we have 'white people' creating every conceivable
 article
  about 'white people', but we have no 'Khoi' people writing about 'Khoi
  people, ...
 
  The same goes for the so-called Biographies of Living People. I had my
  first clash on WP on the issue of the dual nationality of Nelly
 Furtado.
  Two hundred million people see her as Portuguese, three - yes, 3 -
 editors
  disagree and BRAG they will NEVER ALLOW it. The rationale changes, as can
  be seen from the talk pages and archives. They go as far as 'challenging'
  editors that NF sees herself as Portuguese, to then dismiss all the
  evidence as not good enough - even Nelly

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why the WP will never be a real encyclopaedia

2013-08-01 Thread Rui Correia
Denny

PS: Your email is a typical case of shooting the messenger. I have seen
far too often that we seem to prefer that we don;t see the elephant in the
room.

What happens to emails such as mine? Nothing. They get flushed down the
gutter of electronic waste. There are so many bodies within the Foundation,
is there a a body that specifically listens to people to be abe to gauge
the mood of the masses of editors? And I don't mean that internal/ built-in
dispute resolution mechanisms because you know just as I do that those are
dominated by the same kind of people who want to preserve a specific point
of view.

Rui

On 1 August 2013 22:55, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:

 Denny

 If you going to shoot me down as a troll, then I can say only that you are
 one of those that refuse to see the elephant in the room. I am a journalist
 (and a journalism trainer), I know that if I want others to read what I
 have to say I need to come up a headline that will attract attention, while
 at the same time abiding by age-old ethic standards - and I have done so.

 Who controls what is said has become a big problem on the English and to a
 degree the Portuguese WPs. Be fair to yourself, step back and just look at
 some articles to see how many times a day they get reverted. The rot has
 become endemic - there are so many people who do nothing but revert the
 whole day without EVER contributing anything. Yes, I know that a lot of the
 reverting is to undo the work of vandals with nothing better to do, but
 most of it is done to preserve the view thae a specific article has
 'acquired' through time.

 Can you honesty tell me that you have not come across articles that are
 'untouchable'? That you know they convey a view that is not entirely right,
 but YOU and I cannot change it? Can you tell me that you have not come
 across editors who are hell-bent on preserving this or that article just as
 it is?

 Rui

 On 1 August 2013 22:40, Denny Vrandečić denny.vrande...@wikimedia.dewrote:

 Rui,

 if your basic assumption is that Wikipedia will never be a real
 encyclopedia because of the lack of diversity among its contributors, I
 would like to know of any other encyclopedia that is anywhere close to the
 diversity among its contributors that Wikipedia has (just a side-note, the
 original Encyclopédie had an even worse bias towards aristocratic, male
 French than Wikipedias does, as surprising as it sounds). So, which
 Encyclopedia do you consider a real encyclopedia at all?

 Also, never mind the fact that we already sport such a diversity -- we are
 actively aiming and striving for even more diversity, and we are not
 comparing us to the usually abysmal record of other encyclopedias, but
 merely to our own high, maybe even unreachable ideals.

 So, whereas I fully agree that there is a lot about Wikipedia that can be
 improved, I am not sure that a mail that starts with the statement Why
 the
 Wikipedia will never be a real encyclopedia deserves even the
 consideration that I offered you here, and is to be considered anything
 beyond trolling.

 All the best,
 Denny



 2013/8/1 Rui Correia correia@gmail.com

  Dear Colleagues at the Foundation
 
  I just came across an artecle called White Africans of European
 ancestry.
  What is that even supposed to mean?  Who would be any other white
 people
  if not of Europen ancestry? What other white people (yes, WP has a
  definition of white people could these be? Especially as it already
 says
  on the talk page that Arabs don't count.
 
 
  When we have 'white people' creating every conceivable article about
 'white
  people', but we have no 'Khoi' people writing about 'Khoi people, then
 we
  can't call the WP an encyclopaedia. But them the rules do say -
 somewhere -
  that just because  And those just because rules are all over the
  place - you can't use what was done in one case to justify another
 similar
  case because someone is bound to throw a just because rule at you. But
  the just because ... rule applies only when it is convenient - the
  corollary of the just because .. is I know more rules and tricks than
  you and I will win this/ I will not allow you to have your way even if I
  have to break all the rules and make new ones as I go along.
 
  So, just because there isn't an artice about Khoi people living in
  Denmark is no reason to not have an article about White Europens of
  Europen descent livng in Patagonia or White Europens of Europen
 descent
  livng in Timbaktu. We have allowed ourselves to fall victim of the
 digital
  divide - the Khoi don't have computers and internet, white Europeans do.
  That is not an encyclopaedia.
 
  Why don't we have a page on Black Americans of African ancestry?
  Or Black Europeans of African ancestry? Strangely enough, type Black
  African and you get redirected to Black people, BUT the redirect
 actually
  takes you all the way down to Africa - yes, the article on Black people
  does not start

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why the WP will never be a real encyclopaedia

2013-08-01 Thread Rui Correia
Asaf

So you mostly agree with m, but prefer to come out knee-jerking first and
only after that showing that you somehow agree.

The elephant in the room is so big that we there isn't even enough room to
breathe properly to get enough oxygen to our brains.

Rui

On 1 August 2013 23:10, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Your disqualification of Wikipedia from being called an encyclopedia is, of
 course, equally (indeed, more) applicable to _all other encyclopedias,
 ever_.  It is therefore incumbent on your to either agree that there has
 never been an encyclopedia yet, or that your bar for what constitutes an
 encyclopedia is not a useful one.

 We all agree the Khoi, and African topics in general (but also Vietnamese,
 and Guatemalan, and Albanian, and...[1]) are underrepresented in the
 volunteer-built encyclopedia we all cherish.

 What _would_ be useful are realistic ideas about how to address this
 underrepresentation.

A.

 [1] Two years ago, I spent 5-minutes preparing a presentation that makes
 this point when someone suggested that the English Wikipedia is... kinda
 done?  It's at http://prezi.com/szjdvdbtl0j_/is-wikipedia-done/


 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:

  Dear Colleagues at the Foundation
 
  I just came across an artecle called White Africans of European
 ancestry.
  What is that even supposed to mean?  Who would be any other white
 people
  if not of Europen ancestry? What other white people (yes, WP has a
  definition of white people could these be? Especially as it already
 says
  on the talk page that Arabs don't count.
 
 
  When we have 'white people' creating every conceivable article about
 'white
  people', but we have no 'Khoi' people writing about 'Khoi people, then we
  can't call the WP an encyclopaedia. But them the rules do say -
 somewhere -
  that just because  And those just because rules are all over the
  place - you can't use what was done in one case to justify another
 similar
  case because someone is bound to throw a just because rule at you. But
  the just because ... rule applies only when it is convenient - the
  corollary of the just because .. is I know more rules and tricks than
  you and I will win this/ I will not allow you to have your way even if I
  have to break all the rules and make new ones as I go along.
 
  So, just because there isn't an artice about Khoi people living in
  Denmark is no reason to not have an article about White Europens of
  Europen descent livng in Patagonia or White Europens of Europen descent
  livng in Timbaktu. We have allowed ourselves to fall victim of the
 digital
  divide - the Khoi don't have computers and internet, white Europeans do.
  That is not an encyclopaedia.
 
  Why don't we have a page on Black Americans of African ancestry?
  Or Black Europeans of African ancestry? Strangely enough, type Black
  African and you get redirected to Black people, BUT the redirect
 actually
  takes you all the way down to Africa - yes, the article on Black people
  does not start with Africa, but with the United States, then Brazil 
 
  Like I said, When we have 'white people' creating every conceivable
 article
  about 'white people', but we have no 'Khoi' people writing about 'Khoi
  people, ...
 
  The same goes for the so-called Biographies of Living People. I had my
  first clash on WP on the issue of the dual nationality of Nelly
 Furtado.
  Two hundred million people see her as Portuguese, three - yes, 3 -
 editors
  disagree and BRAG they will NEVER ALLOW it. The rationale changes, as can
  be seen from the talk pages and archives. They go as far as 'challenging'
  editors that NF sees herself as Portuguese, to then dismiss all the
  evidence as not good enough - even Nelly HERSELF saying she is PORTUGESE
  was thrown out! Why? Obvious! She doesn't count, she is not a NEUTRAL
  source!!! We have become a joke!
 
  How about being constructive?
 
  If we can come up with every conceivable script in the world, why has
  nobody come up with a script for controversial articles that would appear
  on the the edit page - like the script that says the article is
 protected -
  ALERTING unsuspecting editors to the fact that said article is
 cotroversial
  for xand y reason, and that if the edit the editor is about to do falls
  under that theme, to please first read the talk page, with a direct link
  ALSO to an explanation on BLP and the issue of ethnic background/ present
  nationality. It would save lots of wasted time and effort and the three
  editors who spend sleepless nights reverting the artcile might actually
 do
  something constructive for a change.
 
  In closing, of the nine people featured in photos on that page, I know
  (have met 5) and correspond with 2 - I can guarantee that all five of
 them
  (and most likley all 9 [or the descendents of those no longer with us])
  would object to being featured in such a racist article.
 
  I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why the WP will never be a real encyclopaedia

2013-08-01 Thread Rui Correia
Laura

If this is a VERY VERY important topiic, as you put it, then why don't
YOU help, instead of joingng the knee-jerking squad? If you agree that it
is a very important topic and you are apparenly a better journalist that
me, why don't you do a better job rather than attacking the messenger?

Answer the folowing questions:
Do we have problems?
Are we tackling them seriously?
Are we attacking the problems or attacking those who raise them?

Rui


On 1 August 2013 23:18, Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
 wrote:

 
 
  Can you honesty tell me that you have not come across articles that are
  'untouchable'? That you know they convey a view that is not entirely
 right,
  but YOU and I cannot change it? Can you tell me that you have not come
  across editors who are hell-bent on preserving this or that article just
 as
  it is?
 
 
 I too am a journalist with my work published on two different continents in
 print.   I am also a social media metrics lover.  As a journalist, I value
 verifiable, fact based, neutral reporting.

 If you are making the claim that English and Portuguese Wikipedia are
 doomed, I would love to see some verifiable, fact based, neutral oriented
 data sets to support the claim, especially as this would imply systematic
 bias on a large scale.  You have pulled one article and non-neutrally
 labeled it as a representative article for all projects.  Yes, I know of a
 number of articles and topics that are pretty much untouchable but this is
 far from 99% of all articles on the project.  (I would put the number at
 probably 0.1% and that feels generous.)  This feels like a sensationalist
 claim (which I would normally say is trumped up by the media in order to
 spin a story, but this is not a media story) based on one or two articles.

 Bad research.  Bad reporting. There are ways to get attention to this VERY,
 VERY important topic without resorting to sensationalist calls that have
 little thoughtful documentation.

 --
 twitter: purplepopple
 blog: ozziesport.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why the WP will never be a real encyclopaedia

2013-08-01 Thread Rui Correia
David

I am glad to see to see that so far everybody agrees with me, just nobody
can see the forest for the trees and most prefer to demonstrate how
offended they feel at my pointing out how naked the emperor is.

So, whereas I write complete rubbish, what do you do to fight systemic
bias [which] is a serious problem?

Rui

On 1 August 2013 23:23, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 1 August 2013 22:19, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:

  So you mostly agree with m, but prefer to come out knee-jerking first and
  only after that showing that you somehow agree.


 No, he's saying you're full of it, because you are. Under your
 definition, there has never been an encyclopedia in human history.
 This is not a useful definition.

 Systemic bias is a serious problem, but writing complete rubbish isn't
 going to solve it.


 - d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why the WP will never be a real encyclopaedia

2013-08-01 Thread Rui Correia
George

Thank you for your interest.

It is a systematic bias in not wanting some POVs. Which is why we got to
the point that we have a whole encyclopaedia governing the issue of POV.

I think a better answer to your question would be provided by doing an
analysis of articles with a high rate of reversals, undoings, 3Rs etc and
what the POV are that lead to that behavour.

Rui

On 1 August 2013 23:38, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote:

 Let me pose a set of questions -

 1; Do you feel this is systemic bias in people not wanting some articles?

 2; and/or, do you feel this is systemic bias in people not having yet
 reached creating some articles?

 3; and/or,!do you feel this is systemic bias in lack of depth of coverage
 in accessible reliable sources of some article topics?

 If more than one of the above, what do you feel the relative weights of
 cause are for that aspect of systemic bias?


 George William Herbert
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 1, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:

  David
 
  I am glad to see to see that so far everybody agrees with me, just nobody
  can see the forest for the trees and most prefer to demonstrate how
  offended they feel at my pointing out how naked the emperor is.
 
  So, whereas I write complete rubbish, what do you do to fight systemic
  bias [which] is a serious problem?
 
  Rui
 
  On 1 August 2013 23:23, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  On 1 August 2013 22:19, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:
 
  So you mostly agree with m, but prefer to come out knee-jerking first
 and
  only after that showing that you somehow agree.
 
 
  No, he's saying you're full of it, because you are. Under your
  definition, there has never been an encyclopedia in human history.
  This is not a useful definition.
 
  Systemic bias is a serious problem, but writing complete rubbish isn't
  going to solve it.
 
 
  - d.
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The soft underbelly of the WP: the sponsored private fiefdoms that thrive in the blind spots

2013-07-23 Thread Rui Correia
I've have my setting on receive copy of own emails, but did not receive
this email that I sent out. Can someone please confirm?

Regards,

On 22 July 2013 18:02, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:

 Dear All

 It is certainly not news that a lot of deliberately biased editing goes on
 on the Wikipedia. It is equally known that there are mechanims to address
 these issues.

 But that is where the problem lies - those intent on skewing information
 know all the tricks and loopholes, whereas neutral editors who pass by to
 add something they came across are not so clued up. Most editors that get
 reverted just move on and don't bother. This leads to the 'ownsership'
 syndrome, with editors shooing away anybody that adds anuthing they don't
 like. The bigger problem, is when these editors who act as if they 'own'
 certain articles are actually either being paid to do so or are actually
 lomked to an organisation with particilar interests in the page(s).

 A case in point, the other day I was looking for images of mosquitos
 sucking blood and and came across blatant pornography on Flickr. I added a
 few lines about pornography on Flickr and because it was reverted (I admit
 the edit was not sterling worsmithing) it made me look into the history of
 the page.

 That there are two or three editors who automatically revert anything
 negative is obvious. Less obvious is that one of these editors was
 'dormant' for a year-and-a-half, then suddenly came out of hibernation 2
 months ago to exclusively counter any anti-Flickr edits and add pro-Flickr
 edits - about 75 edits in 2 months. And one or 2 sanitsing the page of
 Marissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo!, (which owns Flickr). Another has
 practically admitted to having some kind of association with Flickr (there
 is plenty in Flickr-related debates on user pages to prove that there is
 indeed a sinsiter and unhealthy relationship. The two or three work in a
 concerted manner, even replying on behalf of each other, which makes
 suspect the presence of sockpuppets or similar. There is also a high-school
 student among the reverters. Things are now at a point that they are making
 rules, 'agreeing' with those against them on the maximum length of a
 section of a Flickr controversy. No such limitations on any other
 (positive) aspect of the article. They have have 'agreed' that a number of
 Huffington Post comments on Flickr must not be included - it is not a
 relaible source, apparently..

 This would not have bothered me were it not for the fact that the Flickr
 article is of an adequate size, with lots of good information on it and
 most of it quite complimentary. It is worrying that a few lines of bad
 press should so annoy people that they are on stand-by to revert at
 whatever hour of day or night.

 The mechanisms that the Wikipedia has created to improve the project play
 into the hands of people like these - features such as the watchlist.
 Within minutes of a change, it gets reverted. Sometimes an editor will
 persist for a while, but eventually walks off and goes edit elsewhere.
 Which is odd, because if there are mechanisms for redress, why not use
 them? Unfortunately, in my experience, whenever anything is put up for
 arbitration, the first ones on the scene include the very editors involved
 or others whom they trust who get tipped off about the issue as soon as it
 develops. It is this that is tarnishing the name of the Wikipedia and
 driving away good editors.

 I use Flickr as an example, but is it not the firwst time that I have come
 across this type of behaviour.
 And so, tiny cliques and coteries flourish like fiefdoms in the blind
 spots of the mechanisms created to ensure that we all strive for the same
 principes. What is worse, there are big players behind this all. In an age
 when the so-called 'big media' is already overwhelmingly in the service of
 'big business', we owe to ourselves to keep them out of the WP.

 Regards,

 Rui Correia.



 --
 _
 Rui Correia
 Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
 Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

 Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
 Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
 ___





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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The soft underbelly of the WP: the sponsored private fiefdoms that thrive in the blind spots

2013-07-23 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks, David. Much appreciated.

For what it is worth, I am part of two Yahoo! Groups mailing lists for
translators, which I receive via GM - from the one I get back my own email,
from the other not. Go figure.

Regards,

Rui

On 23 July 2013 13:10, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 23 July 2013 12:07, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:

  I've have my setting on receive copy of own emails, but did not receive
  this email that I sent out. Can someone please confirm?


 It went out. What you're seeing is that GMail refuses to show you
 messages you sent to a list, even if you really want it to. This is
 GMail being helpful.

 If you want to check a message went out, check the archive:

 http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/


 - d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The soft underbelly of the WP: the sponsored private fiefdoms that thrive in the blind spots

2013-07-23 Thread Rui Correia
%3ASearchprofile=imagessearch=blackfulltext=Search


 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearchprofile=imagessearch=asianfulltext=Search


 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearchprofile=imagessearch=caucasianfulltext=Search


 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearchprofile=imagessearch=furniturefulltext=Search


 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearchprofile=imagessearch=benchfulltext=Search


 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearchprofile=imagessearch=jumping+ballfulltext=Search


 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearchprofile=imagessearch=drivingfulltext=Search

 Etc.

 Best,
 Andreas


 On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Dear All
 
  It is certainly not news that a lot of deliberately biased editing goes
 on
  on the Wikipedia. It is equally known that there are mechanims to address
  these issues.
 
  But that is where the problem lies - those intent on skewing information
  know all the tricks and loopholes, whereas neutral editors who pass by to
  add something they came across are not so clued up. Most editors that get
  reverted just move on and don't bother. This leads to the 'ownsership'
  syndrome, with editors shooing away anybody that adds anuthing they don't
  like. The bigger problem, is when these editors who act as if they 'own'
  certain articles are actually either being paid to do so or are actually
  lomked to an organisation with particilar interests in the page(s).
 
  A case in point, the other day I was looking for images of mosquitos
  sucking blood and and came across blatant pornography on Flickr. I added
 a
  few lines about pornography on Flickr and because it was reverted (I
 admit
  the edit was not sterling worsmithing) it made me look into the history
 of
  the page.
 
  That there are two or three editors who automatically revert anything
  negative is obvious. Less obvious is that one of these editors was
  'dormant' for a year-and-a-half, then suddenly came out of hibernation 2
  months ago to exclusively counter any anti-Flickr edits and add
 pro-Flickr
  edits - about 75 edits in 2 months. And one or 2 sanitsing the page of
  Marissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo!, (which owns Flickr). Another has
  practically admitted to having some kind of association with Flickr
 (there
  is plenty in Flickr-related debates on user pages to prove that there is
  indeed a sinsiter and unhealthy relationship. The two or three work in a
  concerted manner, even replying on behalf of each other, which makes
  suspect the presence of sockpuppets or similar. There is also a
 high-school
  student among the reverters. Things are now at a point that they are
 making
  rules, 'agreeing' with those against them on the maximum length of a
  section of a Flickr controversy. No such limitations on any other
  (positive) aspect of the article. They have have 'agreed' that a number
 of
  Huffington Post comments on Flickr must not be included - it is not a
  relaible source, apparently..
 
  This would not have bothered me were it not for the fact that the Flickr
  article is of an adequate size, with lots of good information on it and
  most of it quite complimentary. It is worrying that a few lines of bad
  press should so annoy people that they are on stand-by to revert at
  whatever hour of day or night.
 
  The mechanisms that the Wikipedia has created to improve the project play
  into the hands of people like these - features such as the watchlist.
  Within minutes of a change, it gets reverted. Sometimes an editor will
  persist for a while, but eventually walks off and goes edit elsewhere.
  Which is odd, because if there are mechanisms for redress, why not use
  them? Unfortunately, in my experience, whenever anything is put up for
  arbitration, the first ones on the scene include the very editors
 involved
  or others whom they trust who get tipped off about the issue as soon as
 it
  develops. It is this that is tarnishing the name of the Wikipedia and
  driving away good editors.
 
  I use Flickr as an example, but is it not the firwst time that I have
 come
  across this type of behaviour.
  And so, tiny cliques and coteries flourish like fiefdoms in the blind
 spots
  of the mechanisms created to ensure that we all strive for the same
  principes. What is worse, there are big players behind this all. In an
 age
  when the so-called 'big media' is already overwhelmingly in the service
 of
  'big business', we owe to ourselves to keep them out of the WP.
 
  Regards,
 
  Rui Correia.
 
 
 
  --
  _
  Rui Correia
  Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
  Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
 
  Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
  Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The soft underbelly of the WP: the sponsored private fiefdoms that thrive in the blind spots

2013-07-23 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks Andreas

Iit didn't cross my mind that you would actually go and check - at the time
the search terms were in Portuguese, so you will probably find different
results - If I find the original pic I will send it to you.

But more importantly, the porn on Flickr is a secondary issue - the intent
of my email was to draw attention to the possibility of corporate control
of the information, which you have already addressed.

I saw something about CHECKUSER, and that special procedures must be
followed to 'out' such people - or reveal possible sockpuppet or
one-purpose accounts. I'll look into those and let you know.

Best regards,

Rui

On 24 July 2013 03:21, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:

 Rui,

 The only NSFW results I am able to get in Google for such a search are
 cases where the Flickr uploader failed to categorise the image correctly.
 Flickr take a very dim view of such people. You can report them, and if
 they don't comply with site rules, it quickly results in account
 termination.

 See Do moderate your content and Don't forget the children on this
 page:

 http://www.flickr.com/help/guidelines/

 (To report an image, navigate to the image and click Report abuse, near
 the bottom of the page.)

 Andreas

 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:19 AM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Thanks Andreas. I appreciate that you took the time to write such
 detailed
  scenarios.
 
  What you say about WP-DE is certainly very interesting.
 
  As for your comment about Flickr does a fairly good job of showing
 nudity
  and porn only to the people who – quite legitimately – want to view it,
 and
  ensuring that those who don't want to see it don't get to see it, that
 is
  not the case and that is crux of the issue: I was googling - on google, I
  was not on Flickr - for pics of mosquitos sucking blood and was surprised
  to see pictures of blatant (not art) oral sex. That in itself is not a
  problem, the problem is that people (parents) have a idea that Flickr is
  'safe'. I don't mind if it is not or they have opted not to be or reasons
  of bottom line - but then this should be ade known on the site, just like
  any other porn site.
 
  And thankd for your offer to help, much appreciated.
 
  Best regards,
 
  Rui
 
  On 23 July 2013 19:12, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Rui,
  
   There are four answers I could give you. See whether you like any of
  them:
  
   *Answer the First*
  
   This problem has existed ever since Wikipedia became visible enough for
   agenda-driven editors to bother with it, and people have made
 complaints
   like yours ever since. Nothing has changed, and nothing ever will
 change,
   because editors like things just the way they are.
  
   The system of pseudonymous contribution is a major driver of
  participation:
   Here is the number one Google link for [insert any topic under the
 sun].
   You can change what it says, right now, and you don't even have to say
  who
   you are. No real accountability; no way to trace it back to you if
 you're
   smart. Just register a funny name, and click Edit.
  
   Given the current initiatives with Wikidata and so forth
  
  
  
 
 http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/wikipedias-new-open-initiatives-were-a-startup-in-stealth-mode-8728357.html
  
   this will not get better: as the stakes get higher, and Wikimedia comes
  to
   dominate the world's information landscape even more, it will only get
   worse.
  
   Don't hope for change from the Wikimedia Foundation, because the
  Foundation
   is unlikely to cut the roots of such a major driver of participation.
  
   Don't hope for change from the community either, for the very same sort
  of
   players you call out in your original post will prevent it.
  
   The present system is far too convenient for all of them: all the
 people
   who are happily grinding axes on Wikimedia sites will unite against
 you,
   even as they are fighting each other tooth and nail on actual content.
  
   Tell the public instead. Explain to them why the system's governance
  sucks,
   and how it affects content.
  
   *Answer the Second*
   *
   *
   This sort of thing is handled much better in the German Wikipedia. In
 the
   German Wikipedia, companies can edit with verified company accounts: so
   that if Coca-Cola Germany edits the Coca-Cola article, it will actually
  say
   Coca Cola Germany in the edit history. Transparent, and accountable.
  
  
  
 
 http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coca-Coladiff=94427890oldid=94244180
  
   In the English Wikipedia, however, any account named after a company is
   automatically blocked, and the operator asked to register an account
  with a
   funny name. This just drives this sort of editing underground, and
  removes
   transparency.
  
   *Answer the Third*
   *
   *
   What did you expect? You cited no reliable source other than Flickr's
 own
   website. Your edit was basically original research

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The soft underbelly of the WP: the sponsored private fiefdoms that thrive in the blind spots

2013-07-23 Thread Rui Correia
Found the pic - will mail you off-list - definite NSFW!

Rui

On 24 July 2013 03:21, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:

 Rui,

 The only NSFW results I am able to get in Google for such a search are
 cases where the Flickr uploader failed to categorise the image correctly.
 Flickr take a very dim view of such people. You can report them, and if
 they don't comply with site rules, it quickly results in account
 termination.

 See Do moderate your content and Don't forget the children on this
 page:

 http://www.flickr.com/help/guidelines/

 (To report an image, navigate to the image and click Report abuse, near
 the bottom of the page.)

 Andreas

 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:19 AM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Thanks Andreas. I appreciate that you took the time to write such
 detailed
  scenarios.
 
  What you say about WP-DE is certainly very interesting.
 
  As for your comment about Flickr does a fairly good job of showing
 nudity
  and porn only to the people who – quite legitimately – want to view it,
 and
  ensuring that those who don't want to see it don't get to see it, that
 is
  not the case and that is crux of the issue: I was googling - on google, I
  was not on Flickr - for pics of mosquitos sucking blood and was surprised
  to see pictures of blatant (not art) oral sex. That in itself is not a
  problem, the problem is that people (parents) have a idea that Flickr is
  'safe'. I don't mind if it is not or they have opted not to be or reasons
  of bottom line - but then this should be ade known on the site, just like
  any other porn site.
 
  And thankd for your offer to help, much appreciated.
 
  Best regards,
 
  Rui
 
  On 23 July 2013 19:12, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Rui,
  
   There are four answers I could give you. See whether you like any of
  them:
  
   *Answer the First*
  
   This problem has existed ever since Wikipedia became visible enough for
   agenda-driven editors to bother with it, and people have made
 complaints
   like yours ever since. Nothing has changed, and nothing ever will
 change,
   because editors like things just the way they are.
  
   The system of pseudonymous contribution is a major driver of
  participation:
   Here is the number one Google link for [insert any topic under the
 sun].
   You can change what it says, right now, and you don't even have to say
  who
   you are. No real accountability; no way to trace it back to you if
 you're
   smart. Just register a funny name, and click Edit.
  
   Given the current initiatives with Wikidata and so forth
  
  
  
 
 http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/wikipedias-new-open-initiatives-were-a-startup-in-stealth-mode-8728357.html
  
   this will not get better: as the stakes get higher, and Wikimedia comes
  to
   dominate the world's information landscape even more, it will only get
   worse.
  
   Don't hope for change from the Wikimedia Foundation, because the
  Foundation
   is unlikely to cut the roots of such a major driver of participation.
  
   Don't hope for change from the community either, for the very same sort
  of
   players you call out in your original post will prevent it.
  
   The present system is far too convenient for all of them: all the
 people
   who are happily grinding axes on Wikimedia sites will unite against
 you,
   even as they are fighting each other tooth and nail on actual content.
  
   Tell the public instead. Explain to them why the system's governance
  sucks,
   and how it affects content.
  
   *Answer the Second*
   *
   *
   This sort of thing is handled much better in the German Wikipedia. In
 the
   German Wikipedia, companies can edit with verified company accounts: so
   that if Coca-Cola Germany edits the Coca-Cola article, it will actually
  say
   Coca Cola Germany in the edit history. Transparent, and accountable.
  
  
  
 
 http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coca-Coladiff=94427890oldid=94244180
  
   In the English Wikipedia, however, any account named after a company is
   automatically blocked, and the operator asked to register an account
  with a
   funny name. This just drives this sort of editing underground, and
  removes
   transparency.
  
   *Answer the Third*
   *
   *
   What did you expect? You cited no reliable source other than Flickr's
 own
   website. Your edit was basically original research, and regardless of
 who
   the editors are who reverted you, they were fully justified. Wikipedia
  101:
   find a secondary source. Here are some to start you off:
  
  
  
 
 http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2011/07/course-flickr-has-porn-problem/40600/
  
  
  
 
 http://www.businessinsider.com/yahoo-hosts-hardcore-porn-and-sells-ads-against-it-advertisers-react-with-outrage-2011-7?op=1
  
   http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2007/07/flickr
  
   If it still doesn't stick, drop me a line.
  
   *Answer the Fourth*
  
   Why are you complaining about Flickr? Flickr

[Wikimedia-l] The soft underbelly of the WP: the sponsored private fiefdoms that thrive in the blind spots

2013-07-22 Thread Rui Correia
Dear All

It is certainly not news that a lot of deliberately biased editing goes on
on the Wikipedia. It is equally known that there are mechanims to address
these issues.

But that is where the problem lies - those intent on skewing information
know all the tricks and loopholes, whereas neutral editors who pass by to
add something they came across are not so clued up. Most editors that get
reverted just move on and don't bother. This leads to the 'ownsership'
syndrome, with editors shooing away anybody that adds anuthing they don't
like. The bigger problem, is when these editors who act as if they 'own'
certain articles are actually either being paid to do so or are actually
lomked to an organisation with particilar interests in the page(s).

A case in point, the other day I was looking for images of mosquitos
sucking blood and and came across blatant pornography on Flickr. I added a
few lines about pornography on Flickr and because it was reverted (I admit
the edit was not sterling worsmithing) it made me look into the history of
the page.

That there are two or three editors who automatically revert anything
negative is obvious. Less obvious is that one of these editors was
'dormant' for a year-and-a-half, then suddenly came out of hibernation 2
months ago to exclusively counter any anti-Flickr edits and add pro-Flickr
edits - about 75 edits in 2 months. And one or 2 sanitsing the page of
Marissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo!, (which owns Flickr). Another has
practically admitted to having some kind of association with Flickr (there
is plenty in Flickr-related debates on user pages to prove that there is
indeed a sinsiter and unhealthy relationship. The two or three work in a
concerted manner, even replying on behalf of each other, which makes
suspect the presence of sockpuppets or similar. There is also a high-school
student among the reverters. Things are now at a point that they are making
rules, 'agreeing' with those against them on the maximum length of a
section of a Flickr controversy. No such limitations on any other
(positive) aspect of the article. They have have 'agreed' that a number of
Huffington Post comments on Flickr must not be included - it is not a
relaible source, apparently..

This would not have bothered me were it not for the fact that the Flickr
article is of an adequate size, with lots of good information on it and
most of it quite complimentary. It is worrying that a few lines of bad
press should so annoy people that they are on stand-by to revert at
whatever hour of day or night.

The mechanisms that the Wikipedia has created to improve the project play
into the hands of people like these - features such as the watchlist.
Within minutes of a change, it gets reverted. Sometimes an editor will
persist for a while, but eventually walks off and goes edit elsewhere.
Which is odd, because if there are mechanisms for redress, why not use
them? Unfortunately, in my experience, whenever anything is put up for
arbitration, the first ones on the scene include the very editors involved
or others whom they trust who get tipped off about the issue as soon as it
develops. It is this that is tarnishing the name of the Wikipedia and
driving away good editors.

I use Flickr as an example, but is it not the firwst time that I have come
across this type of behaviour.
And so, tiny cliques and coteries flourish like fiefdoms in the blind spots
of the mechanisms created to ensure that we all strive for the same
principes. What is worse, there are big players behind this all. In an age
when the so-called 'big media' is already overwhelmingly in the service of
'big business', we owe to ourselves to keep them out of the WP.

Regards,

Rui Correia.



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

2013-01-26 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks Maggie

I am a langugage person - speak a number of them, have a passion for
linguistics, etymology and philology. I had understood that it was some
kind of meeting, but was naturally curious as to why it should be called
office hours.

Thanks for explaining, but it still leaves puzzled to call a meeting
office hours, when something less arcane would do - like IRC-Chat,
Wiki-Chat, Wiki-Miti, Wiki-gether Rendez-VouWiki, etc etc .

Best regards,

Rui

On 26 January 2013 15:03, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hi, Rui.

 Nothing to pardon. I'd have been asking that question myself not too
 awfully long ago. :)

 Occasionally, staff members of the Wikimedia Foundation or other groups,
 such as chapters, go on IRC to chat with members of the communities that
 work on Wikipedia and the other projects we support.[1] Sometimes there is
 a set agenda, if there is something that needs particular focus, but often
 - as with today's meeting - there is not. It's just an opportunity to ask
 questions of staff (or other groups) and to learn a bit from the questions
 that others ask and the answers to those questions. It's generally pretty
 informal.

 If you can't attend the session but are interested in what takes place in
 it, you can still review the logs after the fact. These are placed on
 Meta.[2]

 Maggie

 [1] If you aren't familiar with IRC (Internet Relay Chat), there is
 information about how to use it at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC and
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate

 [2] The logs can be found here:
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Office_hour_logs To read
 them, click on the date of the session in the list. :)





 On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Dear Maggie,
 
  Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is office hours?
 
  Regards,
 
  Rui
 
  On 25 January 2013 22:15, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 
   Hello, all.
  
   Just a reminder that Sue Gardner, the Wikimedia Foundation's Executive
   Director, is doing an IRC office hours on Saturday January 26 at
 18:30:00
   UTC. There is not currently an agenda set for the meeting, but I will
   update the particulars on Meta if that changes. Please see
  
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hoursfor
   particulars.
  
   Thanks!
  
   Maggie
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

2013-01-26 Thread Rui Correia
That makes more sense - but to turn that into a noun (we are having office
hours on Tuesday, is stretching the borders of everything language.

What next? we are having **Car Park** on Saturday to denote the sort of
informal discussions that carry on after a meeting as peole head for their
cars? ;-)

Rui

On 26 January 2013 15:46, James Alexander jalexan...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 I don't know if it's just an american school thing but I know the term from
 my professors (and before that some high school teachers) who had 'office
 hours' which were set hours when they could be guaranteed to be in their
 office without other meetings/commitments so that you could just drop by
 without an appointment an chat.

 James


 James Alexander
 Manager, Merchandise
 Wikimedia Foundation
 (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur


 On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Rui Correia, 26/01/2013 14:36:
 
   I am a langugage person - speak a number of them, have a passion for
  linguistics, etymology and philology. I had understood that it was some
  kind of meeting, but was naturally curious as to why it should be called
  office hours.
 
  Thanks for explaining, but it still leaves puzzled to call a meeting
  office hours, when something less arcane would do - like IRC-Chat,
  Wiki-Chat, Wiki-Miti, Wiki-gether Rendez-VouWiki, etc etc .
 
 
  I think the idea is/was that the mysterious WMF office opens for
  everyone to visit and chat, through IRC.
 
  Nemo
 
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

2013-01-25 Thread Rui Correia
Dear Maggie,

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is office hours?

Regards,

Rui

On 25 January 2013 22:15, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hello, all.

 Just a reminder that Sue Gardner, the Wikimedia Foundation's Executive
 Director, is doing an IRC office hours on Saturday January 26 at 18:30:00
 UTC. There is not currently an agenda set for the meeting, but I will
 update the particulars on Meta if that changes. Please see
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours for
 particulars.

 Thanks!

 Maggie

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[Wikimedia-l] Portuguese Wikipedia at the mercy of a few rogue editors

2013-01-12 Thread Rui Correia
Dear Colleagues

Let me start off by pointing out the fact that I am never sure about
exactly what issues are handled on this list and secondly when are the
issues of a specific language Wikipedia handled among that community and
when are they (these issues) - if ever - handled at a higher level
(Wikipedia top level).

There are a number of rogue elements that everybody has given up crossing
swords with, and wherever these elements go, everybody stays away. One
specific member has a track record a mile long of complaints against him,
has been blocked many times, but does not learn and has in fact
demonstrated that he has no intention to learn.

Ask the more involved members about these rogue elements and ask also about
the top-notch editors that have been abandoning the project in recent
times.

It is no use leaving this to be addressed by the Portuguese WP, as they
have so far not been able to deal with these elements.

Do a search for the word panelinha (the clique/ coterie among the
discussion archives ad you will see how often RESPECTED editors complain
about this inner circle/ clique of repeat abusers who thrive on power and
discord, spending their days undoing what others do.

Until there are firm rules in place to ban these rogues, WP Portuguese will
keep on bleeding its best.

I have collected a number of links with countless discussions/ warning
about the editor I referred to above - all in Portuguese, naturally - which
I can pass on to anyone who wants to look into this. I do hope someone
does.

Best regards,

Rui





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Re: [Wikimedia-l] This afternoon's system outage

2012-08-06 Thread Rui Correia
Hi

Would this be a EN Wikipedia issue only?

Portuguese is acting funny too - the prompt/ auto-complete in the
search field is not working properly, nor is the search function
itself.

Rui

On 6 August 2012 16:52, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi, after crashing an hour or so ago EN Wikipedia has started to come back


 TTFN

 WSC
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Quando a verdade é substituída pelo silêncio, o silêncio é uma
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When truth is replaced by silence, the silence is a lie - Yevgeny Yevtushenko
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is there an agreement between GoldenMap and the Wikipedia for the use of Wikipedia content?

2012-08-03 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks Mark and Mike

Mike, well done on finding the About! I looked for it and could not find
it.

But surely saying that Most of the contents are licensed under
CC-BY-SAhttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
is not a licence to copy the entire Wikipedia wholesale, without as much as
a mention thereof?

Is there a mechanism to deal with this sort of thing? Where can I refer it
to for action?

Regards,

Rui

On 3 August 2012 14:23, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

 on the copyright page they say that the content is mostly cc-by-sa
 http://en.goldenmap.com/stylesheets/terms.php

 On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Delirium delir...@hackish.org wrote:
  It looks like a direct scrape, even to the extent of having some internal
  links being broken because they didn't update them (e.g. the link to
  Wikimedia Commons at the end of the article). I believe it's just one of
 the
  (many) unauthorized mirrors that don't properly credit the source of
 their
  content.
 
  The English Wikipedia keeps track of such sites here:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:CC-BY-SA_Compliance
 
  -Mark
 
 
 
  On 8/3/12 1:44 PM, Rui Correia wrote:
 
  Dear All
 
  I came across a site called Golden Map, which has an encyclopaedic
  collection of articles that are the same as in the Wikipedia, but I
 don't
  see anywhere any information expalining what the association/ permission
  is. Is there an agreement in place for this?
 
  Look - for example - at this page on the Wildebeest
  http://en.goldenmap.com/Wildebeest
 
  Best regards,
 
  Rui
 
 
 
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Quando a verdade é substituída pelo silêncio, o silêncio é uma mentira -
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