Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Publicpolicy] news events impacting the Foundation's ability to hire and its employees' ability to travel

[Benjamin Lees]

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:00 AM, Rogol Domedonfors
 wrote:
> I think this is a very interesting point.  Why is the WMF so dependent on
> being able to hire staff in one location?

A quick scan of the staff page shows more than 60 "international"
employees. (A fair number of employees are also inside the US but not
in SF.) Some teams, like Technical Collaboration and Technical
Operations, have lots of remote employees.  Some, like HR and Finance
and Administration, do not (probably not a huge surprise).

The WMF still has plenty of work to do on this front, but I think
they're moving in the right direction: almost all of the currently
open jobs at the WMF include "remote" as an option.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Publicpolicy] news events impacting the Foundation's ability to hire and its employees' ability to travel

[Fæ]

There is no reason for the servers hosting data to be located in the
same country as the majority of WMF employees. If London is the most
attractive place to work, and Canada is legally the most sensible
place for data to be centralized, then there is nothing forcing the
WMF to have its headquarters in the same country as the servers.

As previously discussed, it makes sense to have the data in more than
one country, and if something like super-injunctions unexpectedly
apply in one country, then the other country or countries should be
chosen to minimise the risk that the same action would apply there.

It would even be possible to legally separate the WMF from its
currently internal data hosting functions. Again these strategic
options would minimize the chance that some billionaire's lawyers
could use injunctions to completely suppress specific knowledge.

Fae

On 31 January 2017 at 16:03, Todd Allen  wrote:
> I think that's an interesting thought in general, but what used to be true
> still is today. Europe in general, and the UK in particular, has
> significantly weaker free speech guarantees than the US does. This
> manifests in quite a few ways, from "hate speech" to "right to be
> forgotten" to "superinjunctions" to prohibitions against publishing the
> name of certain people accused of criminal acts.
>
> Moving to Europe would oblige the WMF to follow these restrictions. How
> would that be avoided? If anything, Canada might be a better option in that
> regard, but still far from perfect.
>
> Also, I'd dispute that London is inherently more creative and vibrant than
> SV. Some of the most brilliant and creative people in the world live and
> work in Silicon Valley.
>
> Todd

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Publicpolicy] news events impacting the Foundation's ability to hire and its employees' ability to travel

[Natacha Rault]

I dont think "Europe" and european countries cant be thrown in one potatoe bag. 
When I read this "Some of the most brilliant and creative people in the world 
live and
work in Silicon Valley."  it reminds me, as I am French living in Geneva of the 
attitude of so called "developed" countries wanting to give good advice and 
impose their way of thinking to so called "underdeveloped countries" in the UN, 
 WTO and ILO sphere, as these guys always go from the premises of their 
inherent superiority.. 

Actually in Geneva we have the highest proportion of Nobel prizes per square 
kilometers (or that is what people out here think). This statement clearly 
would upset some people who are not included in that brilliantly creative 
talent pool...  It is actually the place where the www idea  stems from... 

Nattes à chat




Le 31 janv. 2017 à 17:03, Todd Allen a écrit :

I think that's an interesting thought in general, but what used to be true
still is today. Europe in general, and the UK in particular, has
significantly weaker free speech guarantees than the US does. This
manifests in quite a few ways, from "hate speech" to "right to be
forgotten" to "superinjunctions" to prohibitions against publishing the
name of certain people accused of criminal acts.

Moving to Europe would oblige the WMF to follow these restrictions. How
would that be avoided? If anything, Canada might be a better option in that
regard, but still far from perfect.

Also, I'd dispute that London is inherently more creative and vibrant than
SV. Some of the most brilliant and creative people in the world live and
work in Silicon Valley.

Todd
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Publicpolicy] news events impacting the Foundation's ability to hire and its employees' ability to travel

[Todd Allen]

I think that's an interesting thought in general, but what used to be true
still is today. Europe in general, and the UK in particular, has
significantly weaker free speech guarantees than the US does. This
manifests in quite a few ways, from "hate speech" to "right to be
forgotten" to "superinjunctions" to prohibitions against publishing the
name of certain people accused of criminal acts.

Moving to Europe would oblige the WMF to follow these restrictions. How
would that be avoided? If anything, Canada might be a better option in that
regard, but still far from perfect.

Also, I'd dispute that London is inherently more creative and vibrant than
SV. Some of the most brilliant and creative people in the world live and
work in Silicon Valley.

Todd
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Publicpolicy] news events impacting the Foundation's ability to hire and its employees' ability to travel

[Rogol Domedonfors]

James

I think this is a very interesting point.  Why is the WMF so dependent on
being able to hire staff in one location?  I seem to  recall suggesting
some time ago that they should diversify their location globally in the
inerests of innovation and efficiency.  It would have done them good to gt
out of the Silicon Valley bubble a long time ago.  Perhaps the most
effective action they could take, that would be thoroughly in the long-term
interests of the mission and also probably agreeable to the inclinations of
the majority of staff and contributors, would be to move the bulk of their
operations out of the USA altogether.  That would be a very powerfful
message.  I am sure London would welcome the WMF, and the WMF would find it
a more vibrant and creative hub than San Francisco.

"Rogol"

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 8:46 AM, Todd Allen  wrote:

> The issue is not just in the current post, but that this is, I believe, the
> third or so time that the same person has brought up the subject in as many
> days. Bringing a subject up once is one thing. Bringing it up repeatedly is
> inherently discourteous because it clogs the mailing list.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Publicpolicy] news events impacting the Foundation's ability to hire and its employees' ability to travel

[Todd Allen]

The issue is not just in the current post, but that this is, I believe, the
third or so time that the same person has brought up the subject in as many
days. Bringing a subject up once is one thing. Bringing it up repeatedly is
inherently discourteous because it clogs the mailing list.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Publicpolicy] news events impacting the Foundation's ability to hire and its employees' ability to travel

[Natacha Rault]

I don't feel personnally that this post is not courteous. I see it as a 
proposition and a question echoing world wide concern on the matter (I am based 
in Switzerland), although I do understand that a answer from the WMF is 
delicate. 

Kind regards, 

Natacha 

Le 31 janv. 2017 à 00:51, Nathan a écrit :

It might be more effective, and certainly more courteous, if you could
avoid making essentially the same set of advocacy posts almost every day.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 6:38 PM, James Salsman  wrote:

> I propose that the Foundation issue a statement in support of striking
> Google employees:
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/30/14446312/google-
> immigration-protest-walkout-trump-googlers-unite
> 
> And endorsing the call for a national general strike:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/5r3wxp/
> forget_protest_trumps_actions_warrant_a_general/
> 
> (Except for the Lyft part, because one of its founders is on the
> adminstration's transition team.)
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:38 PM James Salsman  wrote:
> 
> Is this more appropriate for the Public Policy or Wikimedia-l list?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/
> jurisprudence/2017/01/court_rulings_couldn_t_protect_
> everyone_detained_because_of_trump_s_immigration.html
> 
> 
> 
> Several permanent residents have apparently been tricked into signing
> 
> away their green cards while being detained without benefit of
> 
> counsel.
> 
> 
> 
> How many Foundation employees are affected by the travel ban?
> 
> 
> 
> Will the foundation join the calls for a general strike?
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Publicpolicy] news events impacting the Foundation's ability to hire and its employees' ability to travel

[Nathan]

It might be more effective, and certainly more courteous, if you could
avoid making essentially the same set of advocacy posts almost every day.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 6:38 PM, James Salsman  wrote:

> I propose that the Foundation issue a statement in support of striking
> Google employees:
>
> http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/30/14446312/google-
> immigration-protest-walkout-trump-googlers-unite
>
> And endorsing the call for a national general strike:
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/5r3wxp/
> forget_protest_trumps_actions_warrant_a_general/
>
> (Except for the Lyft part, because one of its founders is on the
> adminstration's transition team.)
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:38 PM James Salsman  wrote:
>
> Is this more appropriate for the Public Policy or Wikimedia-l list?
>
>
>
> http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/
> jurisprudence/2017/01/court_rulings_couldn_t_protect_
> everyone_detained_because_of_trump_s_immigration.html
>
>
>
> Several permanent residents have apparently been tricked into signing
>
> away their green cards while being detained without benefit of
>
> counsel.
>
>
>
> How many Foundation employees are affected by the travel ban?
>
>
>
> Will the foundation join the calls for a general strike?
>
>
> ___
> Publicpolicy mailing list
> publicpol...@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/publicpolicy
>
>
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