Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Luis Villa]

Mozilla and OKFN are both using it with solid success.

Anyone have (other, smaller) lists they might volunteer to experiment with 
first, assuming I can convince engineering (or maybe Discourse.com) to host 
an instance?

Luis 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 9:07 PM, Alice Wiegand <me.ly...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My experiences with discourse in a non-Wikimedia context is great.  Worth 
> a try.
>
> Alice.
>
> - Ursprüngliche Nachricht -
> Von: "Samuel Klein" <meta...@gmail.com>
> Gesendet: ‎15.‎01.‎2016 02:46
> An: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam
>
> On Jan 14, 2016 8:35 PM, "Luis Villa" <lvi...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >
> > I agree that thankspam is somewhat irritating, but it is also a good way
> to
> > make people feel welcome and appreciated. An alternative is to consider
> > moving wikimedia-l to a tool like discourse.org
>
> Thanks for that idea. Discourse looks great.  Maybe worth testing out
> casually for some wiki* discussions before deciding whether or not to try
> replacing a particular list.
>
> Sj
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-- 
Luis Villa
Sr. Director of Community Engagement
Wikimedia Foundation
*Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share 
in the sum of all knowledge.*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Andy Mabbett]

On 15 January 2016 at 15:50, Guillaume Paumier
 wrote:

> moving Wikimedia mailing lists to Discourse

What problem is this intended to solve?

-- 
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http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Guillaume Paumier]

Hello,

Le vendredi 15 janvier 2016, 06:07:54 Alice Wiegand a écrit :
> My experiences with discourse in a non-Wikimedia context is great.  Worth a
> try.

+1.

A few weeks ago, I drafted some notes about moving Wikimedia mailing lists to 
Discourse (I posted them on a private wiki; I should have known better).

I've now posted the drafts on Meta: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discourse

I suggest we expand that page and continue this specific discussion on the talk 
page.*

* Sadly, we don't have Flow on Meta, so it'll be good ol' wikitext.

-- 
Guillaume Paumier

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Lodewijk]

This talks mostly of 'moving there' which suddenly in a very short time
quite a number of people seem on board with. Glad that you're so thrilled
about it. To be honest, while I am not always happy with ways we discuss,
that has more often to do with the people than with the technology.

At the same time, as long as it doesn't 'hurt' I don't want to stand in the
way either. So if discussions remain possible the way we have them (sending
emails to an address in response to an email etc) and therefore it
integrates with the other workflows we have (I don't think I'd have the
time and energy to visit /yet another/ platform on a daily basis...) I'd be
ok with a trial period. For example, moving one or two lists there (ideally
that have much overlap), and try it out for a while in a Wikimedia context.

But moving everything there, all at once... no thanks. For that, our
discussion system is too critical a structure to bet with.

So the basic questions I would like to see answered at some point at this
page (thanks Guillaume for setting it up) would be 1) can we keep doing
what we do (the page suggests yes, but it is unsure about new topics - and
therefore also splitting off discussions) and 2) can we try it with a small
number, without too crazy costs in time and resources?

Lodewijk

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Luis Villa  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
>
> > On 15 January 2016 at 15:50, Guillaume Paumier
> >  wrote:
> >
> > > moving Wikimedia mailing lists to Discourse
> >
> > What problem is this intended to solve?
> >
>
> Very short answer is "that mailing lists are an awful user experience for
> most people". Longer, but still very partial, list at
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discourse#What_we.27d_gain_.28user_experience.29
>
> I'll add more there at some point, but probably not today.
>
> Luis
>
>
> --
> Luis Villa
> Sr. Director of Community Engagement
> Wikimedia Foundation
> *Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share
> in the sum of all knowledge.*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Milos Rancic]

So, what do we need to start using it? An installation on Wikimedia servers?

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I'm not mistaken, we recently discussed about this. I'd love using
> Discourse myself...
>
> Aubrey
> Il 15/gen/2016 06:08 "Alice Wiegand" <me.ly...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>> My experiences with discourse in a non-Wikimedia context is great.  Worth
>> a try.
>>
>> Alice.
>>
>> - Ursprüngliche Nachricht -
>> Von: "Samuel Klein" <meta...@gmail.com>
>> Gesendet: ‎15.‎01.‎2016 02:46
>> An: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2016 8:35 PM, "Luis Villa" <lvi...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > I agree that thankspam is somewhat irritating, but it is also a good way
>> to
>> > make people feel welcome and appreciated. An alternative is to consider
>> > moving wikimedia-l to a tool like discourse.org
>>
>> Thanks for that idea. Discourse looks great.  Maybe worth testing out
>> casually for some wiki* discussions before deciding whether or not to try
>> replacing a particular list.
>>
>> Sj
>> ___
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>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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-- 
Milos

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Andrea Zanni]

If I'm not mistaken, we recently discussed about this. I'd love using
Discourse myself...

Aubrey
Il 15/gen/2016 06:08 "Alice Wiegand" <me.ly...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> My experiences with discourse in a non-Wikimedia context is great.  Worth
> a try.
>
> Alice.
>
> - Ursprüngliche Nachricht -
> Von: "Samuel Klein" <meta...@gmail.com>
> Gesendet: ‎15.‎01.‎2016 02:46
> An: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam
>
> On Jan 14, 2016 8:35 PM, "Luis Villa" <lvi...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >
> > I agree that thankspam is somewhat irritating, but it is also a good way
> to
> > make people feel welcome and appreciated. An alternative is to consider
> > moving wikimedia-l to a tool like discourse.org
>
> Thanks for that idea. Discourse looks great.  Maybe worth testing out
> casually for some wiki* discussions before deciding whether or not to try
> replacing a particular list.
>
> Sj
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Gnangarra]

Crikey, balance, spam, dont contribute, very little contribution, +1 pile
on (though we dont see many -1 pile ons).

we are society/community that works because we collaborate we assume good
faith int he actions of others, we know that while we speak(email) in
english many of  us have different levels of understanding, hey even those
fluent in english dont necessarily understand what each other is saying.

Fae is right there could be a better ways to communicate we should explore
how to achieve that and we should keep going back to that very question
from time to time improve how we do things.

the most important point that is;
Its just good manners to welcome people, and to say thank you.


Consider the advice to send a message off list, would you really like to be
on the receiving end of a 100 thank you emails, or 100 welcome emails all
saying similar but possibly different things wow talk of creating  spam,
then that person would feel obliged to answer every one of them
individually. The beauty of the list is we all see and acknowledge an
appreciation of what someone has achieved or to welcome them to the group
and they only have to respond once or twice to the group.

When you distill it down all sharing an equal burden of the odd extra
email, is still a better way to support the communities growth than making
one individual accept a heavy burden so we dont have to see that practice
people exercising courtesy and good manners publicly



On 14 January 2016 at 15:13, Lodewijk  wrote:

> I do agree in general that generic '+1' emails contribute very little. If
> you really want to thank someone, or welcome them, it probably makes a
> better impression if you write a little more than that. Say a few lines to
> introduce the list, give them a tip or offer them to show them around.
>
> Personally, I prefer to send those mails offlist by the way - but I can
> feel with people that with all the dramaspam (how important and justified
> it sometimes may be/feel) you kinda feel a need to balance that out ;)
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 3:17 AM, Gergo Tisza  wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Chris Keating <
> chriskeatingw...@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list
> > (in
> > > the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we
> didn't
> > > rule these emails out.
> > >
> > > After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
> > > information then pile-on negative threads with equally little
> information
> > > will probably still remain.
> >
> > +1
> > I would much rather filter outrage spam :-) There is more of it, and
> unlike
> > thanks, it tends to have a demoralizing effect.
> > ___
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> > 
> >
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>



-- 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Ricordisamoa]

Thankspam is not big a problem in my opinion. One or two seconds per 
message and you're done, then your mind will be full of good. What I 
find most annoying are long emails with few actual contents. You have to 
read them to find out they were not worth reading.


Il 13/01/2016 12:11, Fæ ha scritto:

TL;DR
Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
& goodbyes for our public email lists?

BACKGROUND
Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.

Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
don't get flagged in recent changes.

This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
was aiming for.

PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.

Fae

On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven  wrote:
...

I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board for
the time and effort they have spent.

- that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your mistake
caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);

I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.

...



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Vituzzu]

These days those messages are the best stuffs sent to this list, I'm 
definitely not bored by them. Anyone subscribing this list knows is a 
500 emails/months list.


Vito

Il 13/01/2016 19:15, Milos Rancic ha scritto:

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Chris Keating
 wrote:

To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list (in
the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we didn't
rule these emails out.

After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
information then pile-on negative threads with equally little information
will probably still remain.

Although I am quite rarely sending "thank you" messages (OK, it's not
just "quite rarely", as I sent it once and it was privately to Cary
Bass), I tend to agree with Chris. This list is quite tough and it's
nice to see thanking and welcoming threads, no matter if I am not
reading them.

As sending those messages is quite controllable -- meaning that people
from WMF/chapters/similar structures are doing that, I think simple
addition into the subject line like "[notification]" would allow those
who don't like to filter such messages.




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Samuel Klein]

On Jan 14, 2016 8:35 PM, "Luis Villa"  wrote:
>
> I agree that thankspam is somewhat irritating, but it is also a good way
to
> make people feel welcome and appreciated. An alternative is to consider
> moving wikimedia-l to a tool like discourse.org

Thanks for that idea. Discourse looks great.  Maybe worth testing out
casually for some wiki* discussions before deciding whether or not to try
replacing a particular list.

Sj
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Luis Villa]

I agree that thankspam is somewhat irritating, but it is also a good way to
make people feel welcome and appreciated. An alternative is to consider
moving wikimedia-l to a tool like discourse.org that has (1) built-in
likes, which communicate welcome and appreciation without creating noise
and (2) ability for all users to mute/ignore specific threads. (Also better
moderation tools, and likely somewhat more welcoming to people who don't
use email much, or feel overwhelmed by it - both of whom are large groups!)

Obviously that would be somewhat of a big change, but it's something we can
look into (low priority! no promises!) if people have interest.

Luis

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Gergo Tisza  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Chris Keating  >
> wrote:
> >
> > To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list
> (in
> > the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we didn't
> > rule these emails out.
> >
> > After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
> > information then pile-on negative threads with equally little information
> > will probably still remain.
>
> +1
> I would much rather filter outrage spam :-) There is more of it, and unlike
> thanks, it tends to have a demoralizing effect.
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>



-- 
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Sr. Director of Community Engagement
Wikimedia Foundation
*Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share
in the sum of all knowledge.*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[MF-Warburg]

As a mostly silent reader of this list, I'd like to spammingly +1 this
message. There's hardly anything more superfluous than these "Welcome from
Wikimedia Schleswig-Holstein as well" mails.
Am 13.01.2016 12:12 schrieb "Fæ" :

> TL;DR
> Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> & goodbyes for our public email lists?
>
> BACKGROUND
> Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
> without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.
>
> Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
> a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
> equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> don't get flagged in recent changes.
>
> This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> was aiming for.
>
> PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
>
> Fae
>
> On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven  wrote:
> ...
> > I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> > Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board for
> > the time and effort they have spent.
> >
> >- that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your
> mistake
> >caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
> >
> > I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> ...
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Peter Southwood]

I totally second this.
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Fæ
Sent: Wednesday, 13 January 2016 1:11 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

TL;DR
Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos & 
goodbyes for our public email lists?

BACKGROUND
Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a year which 
'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an awful lot of chapter 
representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes without conveying any new 
information. Sometimes when my email notifier shows about ten of these on the 
same day, I've made the effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of 
specifically muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile 
phone.

Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making a public 
statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be noticed by others 
who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists something like ensuring 
thank email subject lines have a formulaic part of the title would help, so 
that readers can choose to mute them; equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" 
edits on our projects so they don't get flagged in recent changes.

This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he was aiming 
for.

PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this online 
again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.

Fae

On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven <a...@wikimedia.nl> wrote:
...
> I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia 
> Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board 
> for the time and effort they have spent.
>
>- that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your mistake
>caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
>
> I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
...
--
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Lodewijk]

I do agree in general that generic '+1' emails contribute very little. If
you really want to thank someone, or welcome them, it probably makes a
better impression if you write a little more than that. Say a few lines to
introduce the list, give them a tip or offer them to show them around.

Personally, I prefer to send those mails offlist by the way - but I can
feel with people that with all the dramaspam (how important and justified
it sometimes may be/feel) you kinda feel a need to balance that out ;)

Lodewijk

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 3:17 AM, Gergo Tisza  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Chris Keating  >
> wrote:
> >
> > To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list
> (in
> > the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we didn't
> > rule these emails out.
> >
> > After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
> > information then pile-on negative threads with equally little information
> > will probably still remain.
>
> +1
> I would much rather filter outrage spam :-) There is more of it, and unlike
> thanks, it tends to have a demoralizing effect.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Andrea Zanni]

I agree with Chris too!
Thank you Chris!

Aubrey.
Il 13/gen/2016 22:32 "Shabab Mustafa"  ha scritto:

> And "thank you" Fæ, for brining this up! [pun intended] [sarcasm alert]
> [weapons down]
>
> Pardon my poor sense of humour, but I couldn't resist! :P
>
> I believe "thank you" and "please" are magic words, specially in voluntary
> works. I agree with Chris.
> On Jan 13, 2016 5:11 PM, "Fæ"  wrote:
>
> > TL;DR
> > Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> > & goodbyes for our public email lists?
> >
> > BACKGROUND
> > Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> > year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> > awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
> > without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> > notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> > effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> > muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.
> >
> > Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
> > a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> > noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> > something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> > part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
> > equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> > don't get flagged in recent changes.
> >
> > This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> > was aiming for.
> >
> > PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> > online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
> >
> > Fae
> >
> > On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven  wrote:
> > ...
> > > I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> > > Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board
> for
> > > the time and effort they have spent.
> > >
> > >- that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your
> > mistake
> > >caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
> > >
> > > I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> > ...
> > --
> > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > ___
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> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
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> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Shabab Mustafa]

And "thank you" Fæ, for brining this up! [pun intended] [sarcasm alert]
[weapons down]

Pardon my poor sense of humour, but I couldn't resist! :P

I believe "thank you" and "please" are magic words, specially in voluntary
works. I agree with Chris.
On Jan 13, 2016 5:11 PM, "Fæ"  wrote:

> TL;DR
> Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> & goodbyes for our public email lists?
>
> BACKGROUND
> Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
> without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.
>
> Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
> a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
> equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> don't get flagged in recent changes.
>
> This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> was aiming for.
>
> PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
>
> Fae
>
> On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven  wrote:
> ...
> > I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> > Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board for
> > the time and effort they have spent.
> >
> >- that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your
> mistake
> >caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
> >
> > I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> ...
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Gergo Tisza]

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Chris Keating 
wrote:
>
> To me, "Hello" and "Thank you" are quite under-used words on this list (in
> the movement generally but particularly here) so I would prefer we didn't
> rule these emails out.
>
> After all, if we remove pile-on positive threads that contain little
> information then pile-on negative threads with equally little information
> will probably still remain.

+1
I would much rather filter outrage spam :-) There is more of it, and unlike
thanks, it tends to have a demoralizing effect.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Asaf Bartov]

+1 from me too, and to not be spammy myself, I'll add:

one very appropriate way to do welcomes and thanks is *on-wiki*.  Notes
welcoming people (or announcing new boards etc.) should, as a matter of
habit, include a wiki URL (the user's page, or the affiliate's page, etc.),
where people would be invited to leave thank/welcome notes. People
interested in others' messages could watchlist the page, or read the
accumulated messages all at once, and the list would be quieter.

   A.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 4:06 AM, MF-Warburg 
wrote:

> As a mostly silent reader of this list, I'd like to spammingly +1 this
> message. There's hardly anything more superfluous than these "Welcome from
> Wikimedia Schleswig-Holstein as well" mails.
> Am 13.01.2016 12:12 schrieb "Fæ" :
>
> > TL;DR
> > Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> > & goodbyes for our public email lists?
> >
> > BACKGROUND
> > Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> > year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> > awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
> > without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> > notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> > effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> > muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.
> >
> > Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
> > a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> > noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> > something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> > part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
> > equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> > don't get flagged in recent changes.
> >
> > This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> > was aiming for.
> >
> > PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> > online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
> >
> > Fae
> >
> > On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven  wrote:
> > ...
> > > I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> > > Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board
> for
> > > the time and effort they have spent.
> > >
> > >- that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your
> > mistake
> > >caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
> > >
> > > I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> > ...
> > --
> > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



-- 
Asaf Bartov
Wikimedia Foundation 

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
The drawback is that not everyone has the inclination to read everything on
Meta as well. At some stage it is just too much. By insisting on silence,
the silence may become overwhelming and it increases the notion that this
list is only for polical tigers.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 13 January 2016 at 18:00, Asaf Bartov  wrote:

> +1 from me too, and to not be spammy myself, I'll add:
>
> one very appropriate way to do welcomes and thanks is *on-wiki*.  Notes
> welcoming people (or announcing new boards etc.) should, as a matter of
> habit, include a wiki URL (the user's page, or the affiliate's page, etc.),
> where people would be invited to leave thank/welcome notes. People
> interested in others' messages could watchlist the page, or read the
> accumulated messages all at once, and the list would be quieter.
>
>A.
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 4:06 AM, MF-Warburg 
> wrote:
>
> > As a mostly silent reader of this list, I'd like to spammingly +1 this
> > message. There's hardly anything more superfluous than these "Welcome
> from
> > Wikimedia Schleswig-Holstein as well" mails.
> > Am 13.01.2016 12:12 schrieb "Fæ" :
> >
> > > TL;DR
> > > Can anyone suggest of a better way of publicly logging thanks, hellos
> > > & goodbyes for our public email lists?
> > >
> > > BACKGROUND
> > > Wikimedia lists are probably unique in the number of emails over a
> > > year which 'thankspam'. For example there is a pattern set that an
> > > awful lot of chapter representatives send public welcomes and goodbyes
> > > without conveying any new information. Sometimes when my email
> > > notifier shows about ten of these on the same day, I've made the
> > > effort to block that thread, I don't know of a way of specifically
> > > muting the notifications for these types of emails on my mobile phone.
> > >
> > > Though everyone could chose to send these privately rather than making
> > > a public statement, I understand the motivation for "us too"s to be
> > > noticed by others who are not the intended 'thanked'. On email lists
> > > something like ensuring thank email subject lines have a formulaic
> > > part of the title would help, so that readers can choose to mute them;
> > > equivalent to marking "minor" or "bot" edits on our projects so they
> > > don't get flagged in recent changes.
> > >
> > > This thought stirred by Ad's email, but not against the sentiment he
> > > was aiming for.
> > >
> > > PS For those that recall my meta thanks reports, I hope to get this
> > > online again soon once a related phabricator task is resolved.
> > >
> > > Fae
> > >
> > > On 13 January 2016 at 09:21, Ad Huikeshoven  wrote:
> > > ...
> > > > I failed to welcome incoming directors to the board of the Wikimedia
> > > > Foundation and I failed to thank outgoing directors of the same board
> > for
> > > > the time and effort they have spent.
> > > >
> > > >- that you are sorry about the harm/damage/waste/confusion your
> > > mistake
> > > >caused (being specific would demonstrate understanding);
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry for this unpolite and rude behavior.
> > > ...
> > > --
> > > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Asaf Bartov
> Wikimedia Foundation 
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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