Re: [Wikimedia-l] FindArticles.com died in 2012

2015-07-01 Thread Isaac David
The same way you do File - Save As in your web browser. There are 
web services devoted to public web archival like those mentioned by 
Yongmin Hong. Adding links to archives in references is a very good 
advice; Wikipedia already supports appending links to archives in the 
ref template parameters. It would be nice to see this happening 
automatically and makes me wonder whether the community has discussed 
it before.


Le mar. 30 juin 2015 à 11:32, Peter Southwood 
peter.southw...@telkomsa.net a écrit :

How do you archive a website? I didn’t even know it was possible.
Peter

-Original Message-
From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org 
[mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Hong, 
Yongmin

Sent: 30 June 2015 05:01 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] FindArticles.com died in 2012

Try to find links from https://archive.org/web/ , 
http://webcitation.org , or https://archive.is (note: this last one 
is blacklisted on enwp, iirc). I revived few deadlinks (not this host 
though) from these archives.


And try to make habit of archiving websites when you cite something. 
I think I once saw a project to automatically archive citation source 
links but not sure about current status.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FindArticles.com died in 2012

2015-06-30 Thread Ricordisamoa

Il 30/06/2015 11:41, Lilburne ha scritto:
The average lifespan of a webpage is about 77 days. It matters not 
whether the site is still running or dead. Webmasters shuffle stuff 
about and delete things at will. Click on the random article button 
and see a) how many of the first 10 have external links, and b) how 
many of those links are still live, or don't redirect to the sites 
homepage. I reckon at least 50% of all external links on en.wp are 
dead. Lesson: the internet is ephemeral and the only permanent record 
is on physical material.


Yes, if you forget 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_Alexandria.




On 30/06/2015 05:36, Jonatan Svensson Glad wrote:
The website findarticles died in 2012 causing over 20 000 articles to 
have dead links on them. A few of them was backed up on Wayback, but 
their robot.txt changed so all those archives were deleted as well. 
So either articles have a dead link showing as 200 (which 
findlinks.com does) or they are claiming to be archived while they 
are not.
Read more in my blog post about this: 
https://jonatanglad.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/findarticles-com/
Can we use a bot to remove all instances of this link, or should we 
go through them all manually? Can we use bots such as CItation bot 
(which is currently blocked) to find doi's and other links to replace 
these links with? Ideas people! Barely any of these links are tagged 
as dead, and can't by Checklinks (unless done manually) since they 
show as 200.

/Josve05a



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FindArticles.com died in 2012

2015-06-30 Thread Hong, Yongmin
Try to find links from https://archive.org/web/ , http://webcitation.org ,
or https://archive.is (note: this last one is blacklisted on enwp, iirc). I
revived few deadlinks (not this host though) from these archives.

And try to make habit of archiving websites when you cite something. I
think I once saw a project to automatically archive citation source links
but not sure about current status.

--
Revi
https://revi.me
-- Sent from Android --
2015. 6. 30. 오후 8:40에 Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk님이
작성:

 There's a point to be made there: Libraries in some countries are still
 being destroyed (see

 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/28/mali-timbuktu-library-ancient-manuscripts
 and http://elaph.com/Web/Culture/2015/2/985403.html or
 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-burns-8000-rare-books-030900856.html),
 and although there's an effort to save them, it's not an effort we're
 really involved with. That's before we even start on how to reflect a
 reference to a non-existent book on Wikipedia!

 But to get back to the original point, a semi-automated effort might be the
 best way (if the slowest) to get these web pages linked properly again.




 Richard Symonds
 Wikimedia UK
 0207 065 0992

 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
 Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
 Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
 United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
 movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
 operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

 *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
 over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

 On 30 June 2015 at 11:06, Lilburne lilbu...@tygers-of-wrath.net wrote:

  On 30/06/2015 10:58, Ricordisamoa wrote:
 
  Il 30/06/2015 11:41, Lilburne ha scritto:
 
  The average lifespan of a webpage is about 77 days. It matters not
  whether the site is still running or dead. Webmasters shuffle stuff
 about
  and delete things at will. Click on the random article button and see
 a)
  how many of the first 10 have external links, and b) how many of those
  links are still live, or don't redirect to the sites homepage. I
 reckon at
  least 50% of all external links on en.wp are dead. Lesson: the
 internet is
  ephemeral and the only permanent record is on physical material.
 
 
  Yes, if you forget
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_Alexandria.
 
 
  Well of course that was some 1700 years ago. You are equating a event of
  millennial proportion with something that happens every day? Get a grip
 on
  reality.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FindArticles.com died in 2012

2015-06-30 Thread Peter Southwood
How do you archive a website? I didn’t even know it was possible.
Peter

-Original Message-
From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org 
[mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Hong, Yongmin
Sent: 30 June 2015 05:01 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] FindArticles.com died in 2012

Try to find links from https://archive.org/web/ , http://webcitation.org , or 
https://archive.is (note: this last one is blacklisted on enwp, iirc). I 
revived few deadlinks (not this host though) from these archives.

And try to make habit of archiving websites when you cite something. I think I 
once saw a project to automatically archive citation source links but not sure 
about current status.

--
Revi
https://revi.me
-- Sent from Android --
2015. 6. 30. 오후 8:40에 Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk님이
작성:

 There's a point to be made there: Libraries in some countries are 
 still being destroyed (see

 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/28/mali-timbuktu-library-anc
 ient-manuscripts and http://elaph.com/Web/Culture/2015/2/985403.html 
 or 
 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-burns-8000-rare-books-030900856.ht
 ml), and although there's an effort to save them, it's not an effort 
 we're really involved with. That's before we even start on how to 
 reflect a reference to a non-existent book on Wikipedia!

 But to get back to the original point, a semi-automated effort might 
 be the best way (if the slowest) to get these web pages linked properly again.




 Richard Symonds
 Wikimedia UK
 0207 065 0992

 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England 
 and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. 
 Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London 
 EC2A 4LT.
 United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia 
 movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation 
 (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

 *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal 
 control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

 On 30 June 2015 at 11:06, Lilburne lilbu...@tygers-of-wrath.net wrote:

  On 30/06/2015 10:58, Ricordisamoa wrote:
 
  Il 30/06/2015 11:41, Lilburne ha scritto:
 
  The average lifespan of a webpage is about 77 days. It matters not 
  whether the site is still running or dead. Webmasters shuffle 
  stuff
 about
  and delete things at will. Click on the random article button and 
  see
 a)
  how many of the first 10 have external links, and b) how many of 
  those links are still live, or don't redirect to the sites 
  homepage. I
 reckon at
  least 50% of all external links on en.wp are dead. Lesson: the
 internet is
  ephemeral and the only permanent record is on physical material.
 
 
  Yes, if you forget
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_Alexandria.
 
 
  Well of course that was some 1700 years ago. You are equating a 
  event of millennial proportion with something that happens every 
  day? Get a grip
 on
  reality.
 
 
 
 
 
  ___
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  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: 
  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FindArticles.com died in 2012

2015-06-30 Thread Isaac David


Le mar. 30 juin 2015 à 4:41, Lilburne lilbu...@tygers-of-wrath.net a 
écrit :

Lesson: the
internet is ephemeral and the only permanent record is on physical 
material.


Digital media can be more technically demanding to work with, but I 
wouldn't say it is intrinsically ephemeral, much less that physical 
media is more enduring or even that it is the only trustworthy medium. 
Both hard and electronic information need a physical substratum, the 
difference is that digital computers make the substratum irrelevant, 
for they excell at making perfect copies to a different substratum with 
negligible cost. Networking and free/open formats enhence the advantage 
of digital media over physical ones.


The Web is to be blamed for the problem of dead links, not the 
Internet. This is particular to how URLs work. The copyright industry 
trolls can attest how difficult it is to kill resources identified by 
name or content, not location; for instance, using magnet links.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FindArticles.com died in 2012

2015-06-30 Thread Lilburne

On 30/06/2015 10:58, Ricordisamoa wrote:

Il 30/06/2015 11:41, Lilburne ha scritto:
The average lifespan of a webpage is about 77 days. It matters not 
whether the site is still running or dead. Webmasters shuffle stuff 
about and delete things at will. Click on the random article button 
and see a) how many of the first 10 have external links, and b) how 
many of those links are still live, or don't redirect to the sites 
homepage. I reckon at least 50% of all external links on en.wp are 
dead. Lesson: the internet is ephemeral and the only permanent record 
is on physical material.


Yes, if you forget 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_Alexandria.


Well of course that was some 1700 years ago. You are equating a event of 
millennial proportion with something that happens every day? Get a grip 
on reality.





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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FindArticles.com died in 2012

2015-06-30 Thread Lilburne
The average lifespan of a webpage is about 77 days. It matters not 
whether the site is still running or dead. Webmasters shuffle stuff 
about and delete things at will. Click on the random article button and 
see a) how many of the first 10 have external links, and b) how many of 
those links are still live, or don't redirect to the sites homepage. I 
reckon at least 50% of all external links on en.wp are dead. Lesson: the 
internet is ephemeral and the only permanent record is on physical material.


On 30/06/2015 05:36, Jonatan Svensson Glad wrote:

The website findarticles died in 2012 causing over 20 000 articles to have dead 
links on them. A few of them was backed up on Wayback, but their robot.txt 
changed so all those archives were deleted as well. So either articles have a 
dead link showing as 200 (which findlinks.com does) or they are claiming to be 
archived while they are not.
Read more in my blog post about this: 
https://jonatanglad.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/findarticles-com/
Can we use a bot to remove all instances of this link, or should we go through 
them all manually? Can we use bots such as CItation bot (which is currently 
blocked) to find doi's and other links to replace these links with? Ideas 
people! Barely any of these links are tagged as dead, and can't by Checklinks 
(unless done manually) since they show as 200.
/Josve05a



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FindArticles.com died in 2012

2015-06-30 Thread Richard Symonds
There's a point to be made there: Libraries in some countries are still
being destroyed (see
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/28/mali-timbuktu-library-ancient-manuscripts
and http://elaph.com/Web/Culture/2015/2/985403.html or
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-burns-8000-rare-books-030900856.html),
and although there's an effort to save them, it's not an effort we're
really involved with. That's before we even start on how to reflect a
reference to a non-existent book on Wikipedia!

But to get back to the original point, a semi-automated effort might be the
best way (if the slowest) to get these web pages linked properly again.




Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

On 30 June 2015 at 11:06, Lilburne lilbu...@tygers-of-wrath.net wrote:

 On 30/06/2015 10:58, Ricordisamoa wrote:

 Il 30/06/2015 11:41, Lilburne ha scritto:

 The average lifespan of a webpage is about 77 days. It matters not
 whether the site is still running or dead. Webmasters shuffle stuff about
 and delete things at will. Click on the random article button and see a)
 how many of the first 10 have external links, and b) how many of those
 links are still live, or don't redirect to the sites homepage. I reckon at
 least 50% of all external links on en.wp are dead. Lesson: the internet is
 ephemeral and the only permanent record is on physical material.


 Yes, if you forget
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_Alexandria.


 Well of course that was some 1700 years ago. You are equating a event of
 millennial proportion with something that happens every day? Get a grip on
 reality.





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 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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[Wikimedia-l] FindArticles.com died in 2012

2015-06-29 Thread Jonatan Svensson Glad
The website findarticles died in 2012 causing over 20 000 articles to have dead 
links on them. A few of them was backed up on Wayback, but their robot.txt 
changed so all those archives were deleted as well. So either articles have a 
dead link showing as 200 (which findlinks.com does) or they are claiming to be 
archived while they are not.
Read more in my blog post about this: 
https://jonatanglad.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/findarticles-com/
Can we use a bot to remove all instances of this link, or should we go through 
them all manually? Can we use bots such as CItation bot (which is currently 
blocked) to find doi's and other links to replace these links with? Ideas 
people! Barely any of these links are tagged as dead, and can't by Checklinks 
(unless done manually) since they show as 200.
/Josve05a




















Jonatan
Svensson Glad

President of SSU Tyresö and Editor on
Wikipedia




redacted phone number  |
gladjona...@outlook.com




 






















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