Re: [Wikimedia-l] Planned school curriculum by MPAA
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: I'd be OK if they simply gave some space in the training materials to talk about public domain, free licenses and fair use. That's not likely to happen given who's in control of those lesson plans. You're still just arguing about the correctness of the material. I agree that this curriculum is stupid and misleading, but that doesn't explain why the WMF should care enough to make a statement, or even continue discussion, about it. One alternative option would be to work with the Education folks and create Wikimedia centric lesson plans for teachers to use that share the values people are expressing. These can be linked on education outreach pages, distributed to chapters, etc. Or general handouts can be made that explain these concepts ad the linked on https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bookshelf . This is a nice option because it is pro-active and community driven. If some one does approach the WMF externally asking for support on this issue, they have the materials to then work with. -- twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Planned school curriculum by MPAA
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:40 AM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 September 2013 19:33, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: It has something to do with countering falsehoods and educating folks about the full range of content rights. Their 2nd grade materials state: Property comes in many forms: when we buy a book, we own that book. It’s our property, but we don’t own the right to reproduce that book and then sell it or give it away. That’s stealing. Um, no. A Creative Commons SA book, The course covers creative commons. Not that I can see. Creative Commons in not in the lesson plan for 2nd graders. http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2013/09/Grade-2-Copyright-Lesson.pdf Creative Commons is introduced in 5th grade. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Planned school curriculum by MPAA
I disagree that this is simply political. It is very much a culture of ownership -- and a corporate one at that -- being instituted earlier to American kids. If you remember, it was exactly this problem that inspired Lawrence Lessig to start Creative Commons in the first place. He observed that there was a critical inflection point -- when kids are first taught to share and cooperate and then are flipped to hoard and restrict. This amplifies hoarding and restricting at the same time kids are taught to share. I'm glad I moved out of California before this propaganda was introduced to my kids. -Andrew On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: What exactly does this have to do with the WMF? Just because we encourage open sharing of data doesn't mean we need to comment on every political debate that shows up on the news. *-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:21 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 September 2013 17:42, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/09/mpaa-school-propaganda/ “This thinly disguised corporate propaganda is inaccurate and inappropriate,” says Mitch Stoltz, an intellectual property attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, who reviewed the material at WIRED’s request. “It suggests, falsely, that ideas are property and that building on others’ ideas always requires permission,” Stoltz says. “The overriding message of this curriculum is that students’ time should be consumed not in creating but in worrying about their impact on corporate profits.” I suggest we see if WMF commenting, possibly in a blog post or similar, would help avert such anti-sharing foolishness. - d. Might not be a great idea Its an improvement on previous attempts (to start with It doesn't appear to violate the GFDL) and we would actually benefit from our uploaders having a working knowledge of copyright. Knowing all the exceptions is something best left to more experienced users. -- geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Planned school curriculum by MPAA
It has something to do with countering falsehoods and educating folks about the full range of content rights. Their 2nd grade materials state: Property comes in many forms: when we buy a book, we own that book. It’s our property, but we don’t own the right to reproduce that book and then sell it or give it away. That’s stealing. Um, no. A Creative Commons SA book, a public domain work or expired copyright work can indeed be reproduced. And it's not stealing. We are careful to acknowledge the work of authors and creators and respect their ownership. We recognize that it’s hard work to produce something, and we want to get paid for our work. No, not all people want to get paid for their work. I'd be OK if they simply gave some space in the training materials to talk about public domain, free licenses and fair use. That's not likely to happen given who's in control of those lesson plans. On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: I disagree that this is simply political. This doesn't answer my original question. What does this have to do with WMF? Wikipedia does not own any public schools in California, nor will Wikipedia be affected by this curriculum should it be implemented. The only similarity is that is has something to do with knowledge, which is extremely vague. *-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Planned school curriculum by MPAA
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: I'd be OK if they simply gave some space in the training materials to talk about public domain, free licenses and fair use. That's not likely to happen given who's in control of those lesson plans. You're still just arguing about the correctness of the material. I agree that this curriculum is stupid and misleading, but that doesn't explain why the WMF should care enough to make a statement, or even continue discussion, about it. *-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Planned school curriculum by MPAA
The California school system is the back yard (actually front yard) of both Wikimedia Foundation and Creative Commons. From the message on the web site, the WMF is a nonprofit charitable organization dedicated to encouraging the growth, development and distribution of free, multilingual, educational content, and to providing the full content of these wiki-based projects to the public free of charge. Inside a California public school, the WMF should indeed have an interest in making sure that students using Wikipedia don't think to themselves that using such material is stealing and that someone is expecting to be paid. On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: I'd be OK if they simply gave some space in the training materials to talk about public domain, free licenses and fair use. That's not likely to happen given who's in control of those lesson plans. You're still just arguing about the correctness of the material. I agree that this curriculum is stupid and misleading, but that doesn't explain why the WMF should care enough to make a statement, or even continue discussion, about it. *-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Planned school curriculum by MPAA
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: You are right, that the lack of a national US chapter holds us back. The obvious solution is to create a new group: Committee of Wikipedian Parents Interested in Education, aka COWPIE I feel like I'm obligated to make some kind of COWPIE/WALRUS related joke here but I can't come up with one yet. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Planned school curriculum by MPAA
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:42 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/09/mpaa-school-propaganda/ [...] I suggest we see if WMF commenting, possibly in a blog post or similar, would help avert such anti-sharing foolishness I doubt it would avert it, though pointing it out might at least draw attention. I agree with the comment that it's a ridiculous idea to introduce in elementary school (and I would be surprised if it did not simply die on its own, along with many actual good ideas for curriculum supplementation that simply can't be packed in to the school day). Creative Commons now has a blog post up from Jane Park, criticizing the program and pointing out the alternatives that exist: https://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/39781 (I am reminded of the clever If you don't talk to your children about copyright, who will?, also available in bumper-sticker format: http://questioncopyright.com/qco-stk-chld.html ) -Kat -- Your donations keep Wikipedia free: https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Planned school curriculum by MPAA
On 25 September 2013 19:33, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: It has something to do with countering falsehoods and educating folks about the full range of content rights. Their 2nd grade materials state: Property comes in many forms: when we buy a book, we own that book. It’s our property, but we don’t own the right to reproduce that book and then sell it or give it away. That’s stealing. Um, no. A Creative Commons SA book, The course covers creative commons. a public domain work or expired copyright work can indeed be reproduced. And it's not stealing. Varies. what can catch you out there is that it may be possible to copyright typography (in the UK that copyright lasts for 20 years). geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Planned school curriculum by MPAA
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/09/mpaa-school-propaganda/ “This thinly disguised corporate propaganda is inaccurate and inappropriate,” says Mitch Stoltz, an intellectual property attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, who reviewed the material at WIRED’s request. “It suggests, falsely, that ideas are property and that building on others’ ideas always requires permission,” Stoltz says. “The overriding message of this curriculum is that students’ time should be consumed not in creating but in worrying about their impact on corporate profits.” I suggest we see if WMF commenting, possibly in a blog post or similar, would help avert such anti-sharing foolishness. - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Planned school curriculum by MPAA
On 24 September 2013 17:42, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/09/mpaa-school-propaganda/ “This thinly disguised corporate propaganda is inaccurate and inappropriate,” says Mitch Stoltz, an intellectual property attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, who reviewed the material at WIRED’s request. “It suggests, falsely, that ideas are property and that building on others’ ideas always requires permission,” Stoltz says. “The overriding message of this curriculum is that students’ time should be consumed not in creating but in worrying about their impact on corporate profits.” I suggest we see if WMF commenting, possibly in a blog post or similar, would help avert such anti-sharing foolishness. - d. Might not be a great idea Its an improvement on previous attempts (to start with It doesn't appear to violate the GFDL) and we would actually benefit from our uploaders having a working knowledge of copyright. Knowing all the exceptions is something best left to more experienced users. -- geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
