[Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sep11wiki I think it's disrespectful to solicit contributions towards a memorial website, and then to fail to maintain that memorial website in a searchable format. Today, searching the web for phrases in contributed memorial pages brings up only ancient, presumably unmaintained Wikipedia mirrors, such as these: http://encyclopedia.kids.net.au/page/da/Daniel_Brandhorst http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Daniel_Brandhorst/ In time, those will disappear from the web, as all other copies have done. Thus, relatives of the deceased will have no way to discover that these pages ever existed. In 2007, the September 11 wiki was moved to a non-Wikimedia site, evidently hosted by an individual without the capacity to preserve that content for posterity. It was offline after only 3 years. The data is still on our servers. I propose bringing the wiki back up, in read only mode, and leaving it like that either until such time as there is interest from a non-profit or government organisation in taking over the responsibility of indefinite hosting. It would only take an hour or so of ops work. It could stay like that for decades without needing any further maintenance. -- Tim Starling ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki
I think it would be better to reformulate it into book format and make it available as an e-book, for free download either directly from Wikimedia or other outlets like iTunes or Amazon. That would be searchable, and I don't know that hosting it in wiki form provides any benefits. Certainly as a wiki it will never be rescued from permanent obscurity. On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.orgwrote: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sep11wiki I think it's disrespectful to solicit contributions towards a memorial website, and then to fail to maintain that memorial website in a searchable format. Today, searching the web for phrases in contributed memorial pages brings up only ancient, presumably unmaintained Wikipedia mirrors, such as these: http://encyclopedia.kids.net.au/page/da/Daniel_Brandhorst http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Daniel_Brandhorst/ In time, those will disappear from the web, as all other copies have done. Thus, relatives of the deceased will have no way to discover that these pages ever existed. In 2007, the September 11 wiki was moved to a non-Wikimedia site, evidently hosted by an individual without the capacity to preserve that content for posterity. It was offline after only 3 years. The data is still on our servers. I propose bringing the wiki back up, in read only mode, and leaving it like that either until such time as there is interest from a non-profit or government organisation in taking over the responsibility of indefinite hosting. It would only take an hour or so of ops work. It could stay like that for decades without needing any further maintenance. -- Tim Starling ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki
Tim Starling wrote: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sep11wiki I think it's disrespectful to solicit contributions towards a memorial website, and then to fail to maintain that memorial website in a searchable format. I think there's general agreement that setting up this wiki was a mistake. This isn't said out of callousness or indifference, it's just the historical reality. Wikipedia was only eight months old when these attacks took place. No subsequent major world event (e.g., the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami) has had its own Wikimedia memorial wiki established and it's very unlikely that we would ever set up another. The data is still on our servers. I propose bringing the wiki back up, in read only mode, and leaving it like that either until such time as there is interest from a non-profit or government organisation in taking over the responsibility of indefinite hosting. We provide a dump of the September 11 wiki's contents here: http://dumps.wikimedia.org/backups-of-old-wikis.html. Memorial sites, while depressing and touching, are completely outside the scope of Wikimedia's mission. I don't believe Wikimedia has an obligation, moral or otherwise, to host this content in an Internet searchable format in perpetuity. Anyone, including non-profits and government organizations, can use the dump we provide as they see fit. Deciding to host this site again would be a mistake and one that we happen to have already made once. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:38 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: We provide a dump of the September 11 wiki's contents here: http://dumps.wikimedia.org/backups-of-old-wikis.html. Memorial sites, while depressing and touching, are completely outside the scope of Wikimedia's mission. I don't believe Wikimedia has an obligation, moral or otherwise, to host this content in an Internet searchable format in perpetuity. Anyone, including non-profits and government organizations, can use the dump we provide as they see fit. Deciding to host this site again would be a mistake and one that we happen to have already made once. +1. sep11.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo already redirects to the IA copy, as well. Anything else is a distraction and a waste of time, sorry. Erik -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki
On 11/20/2013 07:09 PM, Tim Starling wrote: In 2007, the September 11 wiki was moved to a non-Wikimedia site, evidently hosted by an individual without the capacity to preserve that content for posterity. It was offline after only 3 years. It is still accessible at the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine (http://wayback.archive.org/web/20060111221201/http://sep11.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page) (if I try a later year, it seems to redirect to sep11memories.org). Considering it will not be opened for editing again, that and the dumps should be enough. Matt Flaschen ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki
On 21 Nov 2013, at 00:52, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: +1. sep11.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo already redirects to the IA copy, as well. Anything else is a distraction and a waste of time, sorry. Perhaps it would be worth fixing the mobile redirect for the wiki, currently it doesn't seem to work/exist? -- Thehelpfulone https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote: Sure, but you can't undo it, once it is done. Maybe it was stupid to take on this responsibility, but deleting the site is not an ethical way to rectify the mistake. If you _really really_ want to take this on, please consider just creating a static HTML dump without the MediaWiki skin in a subdirectory of dumps.wm.o (mebbe http://dumps.wikimedia.org/other/static_html_dumps/ ), with robots.txt rules to allow for indexing, rather than returning it to its previous undead status. -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki
Hello, 2013/11/21 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com I think it would be better to reformulate it into book format and make it available as an e-book, for free download either directly from Wikimedia or other outlets like iTunes or Amazon. That would be searchable, and I don't know that hosting it in wiki form provides any benefits. Certainly as a wiki it will never be rescued from permanent obscurity. I think that would be the best. I am sure many people could easily offer a copy that way. Regards, Yann ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki
Tim, You could start an indiegogo or a kickstarter campaign for this. I'm sure you'd find funding and volunteers to keep it online. There is also a museum on the ground zero site that you may want to get in touch with about such an effort : http://www.911memorial.org/ They may be interested in telling the story of the Sept11wiki, and possibly keeping it online. When WP was new and still finding it's character, such efforts like what you propose were not outside WP's potential scope. I just don't feel that WP is the place for it currently or in the future. On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 9:55 PM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, 2013/11/21 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com I think it would be better to reformulate it into book format and make it available as an e-book, for free download either directly from Wikimedia or other outlets like iTunes or Amazon. That would be searchable, and I don't know that hosting it in wiki form provides any benefits. Certainly as a wiki it will never be rescued from permanent obscurity. I think that would be the best. I am sure many people could easily offer a copy that way. Regards, Yann ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- *Victor Grigas* Storyteller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nTVAmstteM Wikimedia Foundation vgri...@wikimedia.org https://donate.wikimedia.org/ ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki
Tim Starling wrote: On 21/11/13 11:38, MZMcBride wrote: No subsequent major world event (e.g., the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami) has had its own Wikimedia memorial wiki established and it's very unlikely that we would ever set up another. Sure, but you can't undo it, once it is done. Maybe it was stupid to take on this responsibility, but deleting the site is not an ethical way to rectify the mistake. Your comments reminded me of one of my favorite quotes (immortalized as a quip in our Bugzilla installation at https://bugs.wikimedia.org/): creating a wiki is like creating a baby: yes you should have a good reason to create one, but if you don't for whatever reason, you should have an _extra_ good reason for killing one. :-) MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
