Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-03-03 Thread Alex Monk
Hi Phillippe,

I noticed that the press release[1] had been made and says despite a press
report in Finland that suggested we did not meet the deadline. That press
report has since been retracted and corrected

However, when I browse to the report, it still appears uncorrected..

Alex

[1]
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/Statement_on_WMF%27s_Finnish_fundraising

On 1 March 2014 17:46, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hi Alex,

 I have checked with Legal.  Our deadline for the response was Friday, and
 our response was indeed filed yesterday.  We received an email confirmation
 from the authorities that the document had been received and we called them
 as well to confirm safe receipt.  It might of course have been that the
 writer of the article contacted the authorities before we filed the
 document.  We are taking steps to correct this inaccurate report.

 Best,
 pb


 *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
 Foundation, Inc.
  T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :
 @Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki


 On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Alex Monk kren...@gmail.com wrote:

  Apparently they got no response:
 
 
 http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest
 
 
  On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one
  
   2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leino...@aalto.fi:
On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:
I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie
 The
man without a past
   
   
Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
   
- Teemu
   
--
Teemu Leinonen
http://teemuleinonen.fi
+358 50 351 6796
Media Lab
http://mlab.uiah.fi
Aalto University
School of Arts, Design and Architecture
--
   
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-03-03 Thread Stryn@Wikimedia
The corrected report seems to be
http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/02/5152/Report-submitted-to-police-duly,-says-Wikimedia

Regards,


*Stryn*

Hi Phillippe,

I noticed that the press release[1] had been made and says despite a press
report in Finland that suggested we did not meet the deadline. That press
report has since been retracted and corrected

However, when I browse to the report, it still appears uncorrected..

Alex

[1]https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/Statement_on_WMF%27s_Finnish_fundraising

On 1 March 2014 17:46, Philippe Beaudette philippe at wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l wrote:

* Hi Alex,
** I have checked with Legal.  Our deadline for the response was Friday, and
** our response was indeed filed yesterday.  We received an email confirmation
** from the authorities that the document had been received and we called them
** as well to confirm safe receipt.  It might of course have been that the
** writer of the article contacted the authorities before we filed the
** document.  We are taking steps to correct this inaccurate report.
** Best,
** pb
** *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
** Foundation, Inc.
**  T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  philippe at wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l  |  :
** @Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki
https://twitter.com/Philippewiki
** On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Alex Monk krenair at gmail.com
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l wrote:
**  Apparently they got no response:
** 
** 
** 
http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest
http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest
** 
** 
**  On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell jane023 at gmail.com
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l wrote:
** 
**   Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one
**  
**   2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leinonen at
aalto.fi https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l:
**On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell jane023 at gmail.com
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l wrote:
**I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie
** The
**man without a past
**   
**   
**Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
**   
**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
**   
**- Teemu
**   
**--
**Teemu Leinonen
**http://teemuleinonen.fi http://teemuleinonen.fi
**+358 50 351 6796 %2B358%2050%20351%206796
**Media Lab
**http://mlab.uiah.fi http://mlab.uiah.fi
**Aalto University
**School of Arts, Design and Architecture
**--
**   
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-03-03 Thread Nathan
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Stryn@Wikimedia strynw...@gmail.com wrote:

 The corrected report seems to be

 http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/02/5152/Report-submitted-to-police-duly,-says-Wikimedia

 Regards,


 *Stryn*


Wow, that's one hell of a correction. Good on Finland Times.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-03-03 Thread Risker
Heh.  So the Wikimedia representative was in Finland?

Still a bit of correction coming, I think.

Risker/Anne


On 3 March 2014 14:05, Stryn@Wikimedia strynw...@gmail.com wrote:

 The corrected report seems to be

 http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/02/5152/Report-submitted-to-police-duly,-says-Wikimedia

 Regards,


 *Stryn*

 Hi Phillippe,

 I noticed that the press release[1] had been made and says despite a press
 report in Finland that suggested we did not meet the deadline. That press
 report has since been retracted and corrected

 However, when I browse to the report, it still appears uncorrected..

 Alex

 [1]
 https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/Statement_on_WMF%27s_Finnish_fundraising

 On 1 March 2014 17:46, Philippe Beaudette philippe at wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l wrote:

 * Hi Alex,
 ** I have checked with Legal.  Our deadline for the response was Friday,
 and
 ** our response was indeed filed yesterday.  We received an email
 confirmation
 ** from the authorities that the document had been received and we called
 them
 ** as well to confirm safe receipt.  It might of course have been that the
 ** writer of the article contacted the authorities before we filed the
 ** document.  We are taking steps to correct this inaccurate report.
 ** Best,
 ** pb
 ** *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
 ** Foundation, Inc.
 **  T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  philippe at wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l  |  :
 ** @Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki
 https://twitter.com/Philippewiki
 ** On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Alex Monk krenair at gmail.com
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l wrote:
 **  Apparently they got no response:
 ** 
 ** 
 **
 http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest
 
 http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest
 
 ** 
 ** 
 **  On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell jane023 at gmail.com
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l wrote:
 ** 
 **   Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one
 **  
 **   2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leinonen at
 aalto.fi https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l:
 **On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell jane023 at gmail.com
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l wrote:
 **I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the
 movie
 ** The
 **man without a past
 **   
 **   
 **Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
 **   
 **http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
 **   
 **- Teemu
 **   
 **--
 **Teemu Leinonen
 **http://teemuleinonen.fi http://teemuleinonen.fi
 **+358 50 351 6796 %2B358%2050%20351%206796
 **Media Lab
 **http://mlab.uiah.fi http://mlab.uiah.fi
 **Aalto University
 **School of Arts, Design and Architecture
 **--
 **   
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-03-01 Thread Alex Monk
Apparently they got no response:
http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest


On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one

 2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leino...@aalto.fi:
  On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:
  I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie The
  man without a past
 
 
  Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
 
  - Teemu
 
  --
  Teemu Leinonen
  http://teemuleinonen.fi
  +358 50 351 6796
  Media Lab
  http://mlab.uiah.fi
  Aalto University
  School of Arts, Design and Architecture
  --
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-03-01 Thread Jane Darnell
The plot thickens! Of course it would be interesting to know what the
average Finnish Wikipedia user knows about how Wikipedia works and
whether they realize upon donation that they are not just donating to
their Finnish (or Swedish) Wikipedia, but also to all of the other
projects...

2014-03-01 15:38 GMT+01:00, Alex Monk kren...@gmail.com:
 Apparently they got no response:
 http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest


 On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one

 2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leino...@aalto.fi:
  On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:
  I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie The
  man without a past
 
 
  Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
 
  - Teemu
 
  --
  Teemu Leinonen
  http://teemuleinonen.fi
  +358 50 351 6796
  Media Lab
  http://mlab.uiah.fi
  Aalto University
  School of Arts, Design and Architecture
  --
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-03-01 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 01/03/2014 15:49, Jane Darnell a écrit :

The plot thickens! Of course it would be interesting to know what the
average Finnish Wikipedia user knows about how Wikipedia works and
whether they realize upon donation that they are not just donating to
their Finnish (or Swedish) Wikipedia, but also to all of the other
projects...


Sure, still it's funny that I was replied nearly the opposite recently: 
Those editors are largely unaware of chapters and thorgs, and many are 
surprised to learn that up to a quarter of donors' gifts are passed on 
to them. !!

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:WMF_Board_meetings/2013-11-24/FAQ#I_thought_we_had_plenty_of_money._Isn.27t_the_WMF_growing_as_well.3F_Is_this_just_an_effort_to_curtail_chapter_growth.3F

That must be a matter of point of view...

--
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49 rue Carnot
F-74000 Annecy
00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-03-01 Thread Philippe Beaudette
Hi Alex,

I have checked with Legal.  Our deadline for the response was Friday, and
our response was indeed filed yesterday.  We received an email confirmation
from the authorities that the document had been received and we called them
as well to confirm safe receipt.  It might of course have been that the
writer of the article contacted the authorities before we filed the
document.  We are taking steps to correct this inaccurate report.

Best,
pb


*Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
Foundation, Inc.
 T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :
@Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki


On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Alex Monk kren...@gmail.com wrote:

 Apparently they got no response:

 http://www.finlandtimes.fi/national/2014/03/01/5137/Wikipediafailstomeetdeadlineonpolicerequest


 On 10 February 2014 15:41, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:

  Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one
 
  2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leino...@aalto.fi:
   On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:
   I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie The
   man without a past
  
  
   Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(
  
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori
  
   - Teemu
  
   --
   Teemu Leinonen
   http://teemuleinonen.fi
   +358 50 351 6796
   Media Lab
   http://mlab.uiah.fi
   Aalto University
   School of Arts, Design and Architecture
   --
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-10 Thread Leinonen Teemu
On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:
 I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie The
 man without a past


Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'( 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori

- Teemu 

--
Teemu Leinonen
http://teemuleinonen.fi
+358 50 351 6796
Media Lab
http://mlab.uiah.fi
Aalto University 
School of Arts, Design and Architecture
--

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-10 Thread Jane Darnell
Yes, he would definitely have enjoyed this one

2014-02-10 9:51 GMT+01:00, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leino...@aalto.fi:
 On 8.2.2014, at 13.51, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:
 I love this thread - it make me think of Matti Wuori in the movie The
 man without a past


 Heh :-) These days, I also miss Matti Wuori. :-'(

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Wuori

 - Teemu

 --
 Teemu Leinonen
 http://teemuleinonen.fi
 +358 50 351 6796
 Media Lab
 http://mlab.uiah.fi
 Aalto University
 School of Arts, Design and Architecture
 --

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[Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-07 Thread Leinonen Teemu
Hi, 

I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the fi.wikipedia, by 
sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a written 
statement about their possible violation of the laws that regulate fundraising 
in Finland. There is a little news about this already online in English. Here: 

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests

I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the police msy go 
after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising, e.g. by 
translating the fundraising messages. 

Is there any equivalent cases from other countries? 

In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.

- Teemu  

--
Teemu Leinonen
http://teemuleinonen.fi
+358 50 351 6796
Media Lab
http://mlab.uiah.fi
Aalto University 
School of Arts, Design and Architecture
--


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-07 Thread Alex Monk
Has anyone translated the email into English? Would be interesting to see
what it says...

Alex Monk


On 7 February 2014 21:33, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leino...@aalto.fi wrote:

 Hi,

 I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the fi.wikipedia,
 by sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a
 written statement about their possible violation of the laws that regulate
 fundraising in Finland. There is a little news about this already online in
 English. Here:


 http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests

 I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the police
 msy go after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising, e.g.
 by translating the fundraising messages.

 Is there any equivalent cases from other countries?

 In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.

 - Teemu

 --
 Teemu Leinonen
 http://teemuleinonen.fi
 +358 50 351 6796
 Media Lab
 http://mlab.uiah.fi
 Aalto University
 School of Arts, Design and Architecture
 --


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-07 Thread Seb35
It’s incredible that some governments think they own the language(s)  
mainly spoken in their country: fi.wikipedia.org is in Finnish but not  
related to Finland (non-Finnish people could visit fi.wikipedia.org, and  
Finnish people could visit other language Wikipedias). And it’s sad if  
they attack volunteers for a technical work, that would sound like the  
DGSE affair.


~ Seb35

Le Fri, 07 Feb 2014 23:00:40 +0100, Alex Monk kren...@gmail.com a écrit:

Has anyone translated the email into English? Would be interesting to see
what it says...

Alex Monk


On 7 February 2014 21:33, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leino...@aalto.fi wrote:


Hi,

I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the  
fi.wikipedia,

by sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a
written statement about their possible violation of the laws that  
regulate
fundraising in Finland. There is a little news about this already  
online in

English. Here:


http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests

I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the police
msy go after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising,  
e.g.

by translating the fundraising messages.

Is there any equivalent cases from other countries?

In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.

- Teemu

--
Teemu Leinonen
http://teemuleinonen.fi
+358 50 351 6796
Media Lab
http://mlab.uiah.fi
Aalto University
School of Arts, Design and Architecture
--


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-07 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#L17P16b

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-07 Thread Kevin Gorman
My Finnish is hardly perfect, but the letter essentially outlines the
Finnish law regarding what is and what isn't money collection activities,
and then compares what goes on with fi.wikipedia.org with the relevant
Finnish statutes, concluding that the fundraising campaign is in fact a
money collection activity and thus needs a permit from the Finnish police.
They request that the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org explains the purpose of
the fundraising text, and also furnishes the Finnish National Police Board
with information regarding the total sum of money that has been raised
through the text, at a date no later than the 21st of February.  They also
say that additional details may be required.  They indicate that it is
currently an administrative issue, but that the Police Board has the
authority to initiate investigations of criminal wrongdoing if the answers
of the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org are unsatisfactory.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote:

 http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#L17P16b

 Nemo


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-07 Thread Isarra Yos

Who exactly would the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org even be?

On 08/02/14 00:24, Kevin Gorman wrote:

My Finnish is hardly perfect, but the letter essentially outlines the
Finnish law regarding what is and what isn't money collection activities,
and then compares what goes on with fi.wikipedia.org with the relevant
Finnish statutes, concluding that the fundraising campaign is in fact a
money collection activity and thus needs a permit from the Finnish police.
They request that the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org explains the purpose of
the fundraising text, and also furnishes the Finnish National Police Board
with information regarding the total sum of money that has been raised
through the text, at a date no later than the 21st of February.  They also
say that additional details may be required.  They indicate that it is
currently an administrative issue, but that the Police Board has the
authority to initiate investigations of criminal wrongdoing if the answers
of the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org are unsatisfactory.

Best,
Kevin Gorman


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote:


http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#L17P16b

Nemo


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-07 Thread Craig Franklin
The Foundation.  Which is why WMFI shouldn't try to reply to this except to
refer them on.

Cheers,
Craig
On 08/02/2014 11:11 AM, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote:

 Who exactly would the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org even be?

 On 08/02/14 00:24, Kevin Gorman wrote:

 My Finnish is hardly perfect, but the letter essentially outlines the
 Finnish law regarding what is and what isn't money collection activities,
 and then compares what goes on with fi.wikipedia.org with the relevant
 Finnish statutes, concluding that the fundraising campaign is in fact a
 money collection activity and thus needs a permit from the Finnish police.
 They request that the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org explains the purpose
 of
 the fundraising text, and also furnishes the Finnish National Police Board
 with information regarding the total sum of money that has been raised
 through the text, at a date no later than the 21st of February.  They also
 say that additional details may be required.  They indicate that it is
 currently an administrative issue, but that the Police Board has the
 authority to initiate investigations of criminal wrongdoing if the answers
 of the webmaster of fi.wikipedia.org are unsatisfactory.

 Best,
 Kevin Gorman


 On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#L17P16b

 Nemo


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-07 Thread Charles Gregory
In Australia, we (Wikimedia Australia) had to get fundraising approval
before the 2010 fundraiser (when the chapters accepted and processed the
payments and then passed a share back to the Wikimedia Foundation).  This
was made more complicated due to the fundraising laws being a state issue
rather than national and so we had to seek approval from each state, some
with different requirements than others (for example, some needed a member
in that state willing to act as a contact person).

When this arrangement ended and Wikimedia Foundation took on the
fundraising themselves, this was no longer a requirement due to the WMF not
being an Australian organisation.  (Although we advised WMF to seek their
own legal advice to confirm this)

Your situation appears to be different for several reasons:
1) Your situation involves a group of users, not a chapter (the donation is
to a non-Finnish organisation)
2) The donation information is in a language specific to your country - and
so by targetting Finnish speakers, they were targetting Finland residents -
whereas the same language is spoken in Australia and the United States.

With #1 - given the number of smaller websites with a Donate via Paypal
button in the corner, I don't think this should be an issue.

The only thing that would shift this in the Finnish police's favour is #2 -
suggesting that Finns were involved in the fundraising - and as others have
said, this could quite easily be a person (or people) who the Finnish
government has no jurisdiction over (a national of another country who has
learned Finnish, for example).  Unless the Finnish Government has some sort
of strange ownership or legal connection to the Finnish language...

(Dislcaimer: IANAL of course)

(BTW - I was amused that even Google translate failed to translate Nemo's
link the first time around!)

Regards,

Charles Gregory
(User:Chuq)



On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leino...@aalto.fiwrote:

 Hi,

 I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the fi.wikipedia,
 by sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a
 written statement about their possible violation of the laws that regulate
 fundraising in Finland. There is a little news about this already online in
 English. Here:


 http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests

 I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the police
 msy go after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising, e.g.
 by translating the fundraising messages.

 Is there any equivalent cases from other countries?

 In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.

 - Teemu

 --
 Teemu Leinonen
 http://teemuleinonen.fi
 +358 50 351 6796
 Media Lab
 http://mlab.uiah.fi
 Aalto University
 School of Arts, Design and Architecture
 --


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-07 Thread George Herbert
Most importantly for all this, the SERVERS are not hosted in Finland
(unless something snuck in there behind my back).

Under US and EU laws, I would think there's no Finnish jurisdiction over
where the servers are located.

If the Finnish Police are asserting authority over any website written in
their language, there's a problem.

If they think they're hosted in Finland, then there's just a quick
educational explanation pointing to the WMF server locations documentation.

In any case, pass this to le...@wikimedia.org




On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Kevin Gorman kgor...@gmail.com wrote:

 I would dispute the suggestion the Finnish Wikipedia is specific to
 Finland; I read it regularly and have never been to Finland.  There are at
 a bare minimum something like 300,000 fluent Finnish speakers who don't
 live in Finland (and I don't think that's counting the portion of Swedes
 who speak Finnish,) so although the fundraising banner probably primarily
 attracted donations from people in Finland, it likely attracted plenty of
 donations from other countries as well.

 Best,
 Kevin Gorman


 On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Charles Gregory wmau.li...@chuq.net
 wrote:

  In Australia, we (Wikimedia Australia) had to get fundraising approval
  before the 2010 fundraiser (when the chapters accepted and processed the
  payments and then passed a share back to the Wikimedia Foundation).  This
  was made more complicated due to the fundraising laws being a state issue
  rather than national and so we had to seek approval from each state, some
  with different requirements than others (for example, some needed a
 member
  in that state willing to act as a contact person).
 
  When this arrangement ended and Wikimedia Foundation took on the
  fundraising themselves, this was no longer a requirement due to the WMF
 not
  being an Australian organisation.  (Although we advised WMF to seek their
  own legal advice to confirm this)
 
  Your situation appears to be different for several reasons:
  1) Your situation involves a group of users, not a chapter (the donation
 is
  to a non-Finnish organisation)
  2) The donation information is in a language specific to your country -
 and
  so by targetting Finnish speakers, they were targetting Finland
 residents -
  whereas the same language is spoken in Australia and the United States.
 
  With #1 - given the number of smaller websites with a Donate via Paypal
  button in the corner, I don't think this should be an issue.
 
  The only thing that would shift this in the Finnish police's favour is
 #2 -
  suggesting that Finns were involved in the fundraising - and as others
 have
  said, this could quite easily be a person (or people) who the Finnish
  government has no jurisdiction over (a national of another country who
 has
  learned Finnish, for example).  Unless the Finnish Government has some
 sort
  of strange ownership or legal connection to the Finnish language...
 
  (Dislcaimer: IANAL of course)
 
  (BTW - I was amused that even Google translate failed to translate Nemo's
  link the first time around!)
 
  Regards,
 
  Charles Gregory
  (User:Chuq)
 
 
 
  On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leino...@aalto.fi
  wrote:
 
   Hi,
  
   I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the
 fi.wikipedia,
   by sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a
   written statement about their possible violation of the laws that
  regulate
   fundraising in Finland. There is a little news about this already
 online
  in
   English. Here:
  
  
  
 
 http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests
  
   I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the
 police
   msy go after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising,
  e.g.
   by translating the fundraising messages.
  
   Is there any equivalent cases from other countries?
  
   In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.
  
   - Teemu
  
   --
   Teemu Leinonen
   http://teemuleinonen.fi
   +358 50 351 6796
   Media Lab
   http://mlab.uiah.fi
   Aalto University
   School of Arts, Design and Architecture
   --
  
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-07 Thread Charles Gregory
Of course it's not a strict 1:1 ratio!   But I was comparing it to (for
example) English or Spanish, which the country of origin represent a
minority of all speakers worldwide.

Charles


On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Kevin Gorman kgor...@gmail.com wrote:

 I would dispute the suggestion the Finnish Wikipedia is specific to
 Finland; I read it regularly and have never been to Finland.  There are at
 a bare minimum something like 300,000 fluent Finnish speakers who don't
 live in Finland (and I don't think that's counting the portion of Swedes
 who speak Finnish,) so although the fundraising banner probably primarily
 attracted donations from people in Finland, it likely attracted plenty of
 donations from other countries as well.

 Best,
 Kevin Gorman


 On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Charles Gregory wmau.li...@chuq.net
 wrote:

  In Australia, we (Wikimedia Australia) had to get fundraising approval
  before the 2010 fundraiser (when the chapters accepted and processed the
  payments and then passed a share back to the Wikimedia Foundation).  This
  was made more complicated due to the fundraising laws being a state issue
  rather than national and so we had to seek approval from each state, some
  with different requirements than others (for example, some needed a
 member
  in that state willing to act as a contact person).
 
  When this arrangement ended and Wikimedia Foundation took on the
  fundraising themselves, this was no longer a requirement due to the WMF
 not
  being an Australian organisation.  (Although we advised WMF to seek their
  own legal advice to confirm this)
 
  Your situation appears to be different for several reasons:
  1) Your situation involves a group of users, not a chapter (the donation
 is
  to a non-Finnish organisation)
  2) The donation information is in a language specific to your country -
 and
  so by targetting Finnish speakers, they were targetting Finland
 residents -
  whereas the same language is spoken in Australia and the United States.
 
  With #1 - given the number of smaller websites with a Donate via Paypal
  button in the corner, I don't think this should be an issue.
 
  The only thing that would shift this in the Finnish police's favour is
 #2 -
  suggesting that Finns were involved in the fundraising - and as others
 have
  said, this could quite easily be a person (or people) who the Finnish
  government has no jurisdiction over (a national of another country who
 has
  learned Finnish, for example).  Unless the Finnish Government has some
 sort
  of strange ownership or legal connection to the Finnish language...
 
  (Dislcaimer: IANAL of course)
 
  (BTW - I was amused that even Google translate failed to translate Nemo's
  link the first time around!)
 
  Regards,
 
  Charles Gregory
  (User:Chuq)
 
 
 
  On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Leinonen Teemu teemu.leino...@aalto.fi
  wrote:
 
   Hi,
  
   I just got a message that the Finnish Police have asked the
 fi.wikipedia,
   by sending an email to the wikifi-ad...@list.wikimedia.org, to give a
   written statement about their possible violation of the laws that
  regulate
   fundraising in Finland. There is a little news about this already
 online
  in
   English. Here:
  
  
  
 
 http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests
  
   I chat about this with a lawyer friend and he was afraid that the
 police
   msy go after the volunteers that have participated in the fundraising,
  e.g.
   by translating the fundraising messages.
  
   Is there any equivalent cases from other countries?
  
   In Finland one needs a pre-given permission to do fundraising.
  
   - Teemu
  
   --
   Teemu Leinonen
   http://teemuleinonen.fi
   +358 50 351 6796
   Media Lab
   http://mlab.uiah.fi
   Aalto University
   School of Arts, Design and Architecture
   --
  
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?

2014-02-07 Thread Stephen LaPorte
Hello all,

We are handling this issue, and we are contacting the authorities to
resolve their questions.

If you receive any official inquires about fundraising on Finnish
Wikipedia, please direct them to the Wikimedia Foundation legal team, to me
or Andrei Voinigescu (avoinige...@wikimedia.org).

Best,
Stephen

-- 
Stephen LaPorte
Legal Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation

*This message might have confidential or legally privileged information in
it. If you have received this message by accident, please delete it and let
us know about the mistake. For legal reasons, I may only serve as an
attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation. This means I may not give legal
advice to or serve as a lawyer for community members, volunteers, or staff
members in their personal capacity.*
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