Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:25 AM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com wrote: could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way: 1. it should knows groups 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history views 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in history views 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page, or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page. I think Rupert's proposal does not go far enough in terms of addressing the potential conflict of interests by contributors because it focuses exclusively on paid edits while failing to address other conflict of interests problems that lead to neutrality issues. While anyone should be free to edit, the edit box should contain a dynamic box at the bottom that includes a potential list of conflicts that create bias problems based on the conflict. The user, before submitting their edit, should click each box verifying what their (potential) advocacy problems are so that their edits may be vetted. This includes gender, religion, nationality, ethnicity, political alignment, Political party membership, academic discipline, level of education, yearly earnings, city you live in, and employer. So if you are editing an article about Serbian politics, you would be asked if you are a Serb nationalist, a Croatian nationalist, a right wing political party member, a left wing political party member, male, Christian, Muslim, have a PhD, work for the government, work for for a non-profit, if you live in Belgrade, etc. This would increase Wikipedia's transparency and accountability of editors for their actions. It would actively discourage advocacy of all types, including the paid type. Sincerely, Laura Hale -- twitter: purplepopple ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
2014-02-25 21:20 GMT+05:30 Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com: So if you are editing an article about Serbian politics, you would be asked if you are a Serb nationalist, a Croatian nationalist, a right wing political party member, a left wing political party member, male, Christian, Muslim, have a PhD, work for the government, work for for a non-profit, if you live in Belgrade, etc. Hopefully, this is a (bad) joke. (...) Sincerely, Laura Hale Regards, Yann -- twitter: purplepopple ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
Laura Hale wrote: I think Rupert's proposal does not go far enough in terms of addressing the potential conflict of interests by contributors because it focuses exclusively on paid edits while failing to address other conflict of interests problems that lead to neutrality issues. While anyone should be free to edit, the edit box should contain a dynamic box at the bottom that includes a potential list of conflicts that create bias problems based on the conflict. The user, before submitting their edit, should click each box verifying what their (potential) advocacy problems are so that their edits may be vetted. This includes gender, religion, nationality, ethnicity, political alignment, Political party membership, academic discipline, level of education, yearly earnings, city you live in, and employer. So if you are editing an article about Serbian politics, you would be asked if you are a Serb nationalist, a Croatian nationalist, a right wing political party member, a left wing political party member, male, Christian, Muslim, have a PhD, work for the government, work for for a non-profit, if you live in Belgrade, etc. This would increase Wikipedia's transparency and accountability of editors for their actions. It would actively discourage advocacy of all types, including the paid type. Hmmm, I'm running into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law with this post. I honestly can't tell if you're being serious here. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
I think this doesn't really address the core issues that surround this hotly debated topic of paid editing. No further comment. On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 9:47 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote: Hoi, Why ? Thanks. GerardM On 22 February 2014 21:13, Gryllida gryll...@fastmail.fm wrote: I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively. I feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate queue. On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote: hi, could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way: 1. it should knows groups 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history views 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in history views 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page, or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page. reason: currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the main reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general): * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive for other users * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts. what you think? best regards, rupert --- swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
Hi rupert, I think this requester feature has merit, as it provides a tool for communities to use for this purpose (COI) and others. One possible implementation is the tag system already part of the Abuse Filter extension. Bug 18670 requests the tag system be more flexible, allowing false positives to be addessed, and would also allow self-tagging of edits. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18670 On Feb 22, 2014 10:26 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com wrote: hi, could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way: 1. it should knows groups 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history views 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in history views 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page, or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page. reason: currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the main reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general): * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive for other users * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts. what you think? best regards, rupert --- swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
I don't know if this is a broadly shared opinion, but like Rupert, I think this is too difficult to step-in as an organisation. This is in particular true if you want to do it on an international/multi-language level. GLAMs, which are the organisations we want to treasure, are impacted among others. Read this report from Switzerland for example: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/January_2014/Contents/Switzerland_report This is of course the duty of each language community to decide how to deal with this thematic. However, Mediawiki can play a role by helping to achieve as much as possible transparency. That the reason why I think these concrete propositions are discussion worth. I strongly believe that if the tool allows us to better take in consideration and track Corporate personhood contributions then the whole debate will be far less passionate, easier to conduct, and at the end better solutions will emerge. Emmanuel Le 22/02/2014 16:25, rupert THURNER a écrit : could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way: 1. it should knows groups 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history views 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in history views 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page, or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page. reason: currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the main reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general): * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive for other users * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts. what you think? -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
No, I mean, that's what article talk page is for. It's close to useless to get a contributor admit COI by ticking a box. 1) He won't do it. 2) It's much better to add a box to ?action=edit, when a page is created, asking the contributor to type something in manually (what motivated you to create article? please disclose conflict of interest and affiliations to help us help you.). Stop adding complexity, bureaucracy and terms. The learning curve is full enough of paperwork, terms, badges, and reviewing as is. On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 16:47, Gerard Meijssen wrote: Hoi, Why ? Thanks. GerardM On 22 February 2014 21:13, Gryllida gryll...@fastmail.fm wrote: I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively. I feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate queue. On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote: hi, could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way: 1. it should knows groups 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history views 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in history views 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page, or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page. reason: currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the main reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general): * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive for other users * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts. what you think? best regards, rupert --- swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:25 AM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.comwrote: could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way: 1. it should knows groups 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history views 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in history views 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page, or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page. [With my WMF product manager hat on...] This a big request with many moving parts. We should probably try to separate them out and simplify where we can. I'd recommend filing bugs for structured information about groups, profiles, the ability to join/leave groups, activity feeds per group, and more. This is something that is of general interest, and is not specific to COI-related issues at all. Gryllida's comment was a bit abrasive but is a correct understanding of the challenge here I think, in terms of creating richer kinds of information about types of edits/editors without making a user do unnecessary extra work. Imagine if there is essentially as many group types as there are categories, for instance. It probably makes more sense to have collections of pages associated with a group, so that we can generate a feed of group activity not by making the user select a group when saving, but automatically. So for example: I'm in Group:Beer and I edit the article on Pilsner, so my edits show in a feed of edits by Group:Beer members to articles in that subject. In the long run, we should start creating structured information about topical groups, and let people access it both through a group page as well as some kind of editor profile. However, it's not going to happen in the next calendar year, so I'm not sure it's a good interim solution to the problem of how to make COI disclosures easier. AbuseFilter also is honestly probably not the right solution, even if self-tagging existed. Steven ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.comwrote: On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:25 AM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com wrote: could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way: 1. it should knows groups 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history views 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in history views 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page, or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page. [With my WMF product manager hat on...] the request is about _exactly this_, for wikipedia edits. you mark your contribution _when you write it_. you can do this by not changing your user account, using your gmail address as sender. this use case is quite common, and it is optional. rupert. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
hi, could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way: 1. it should knows groups 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history views 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in history views 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page, or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page. reason: currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the main reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general): * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive for other users * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts. what you think? best regards, rupert --- swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively. I feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate queue. On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote: hi, could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way: 1. it should knows groups 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history views 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in history views 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page, or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page. reason: currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the main reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general): * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive for other users * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts. what you think? best regards, rupert --- swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a group, and COI to an edit
Hoi, Why ? Thanks. GerardM On 22 February 2014 21:13, Gryllida gryll...@fastmail.fm wrote: I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively. I feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate queue. On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote: hi, could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way: 1. it should knows groups 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile 3. allow to select one of the groups joined to an edit when saving 4. add a checkbox COI to an edit, meaning potential conflict of interest 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history views 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in history views 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page, or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page. reason: currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend to create multiple accounts, and try to create company accounts. the main reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general): * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive for other users * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may continue to use sue gardner (wmf) accounts. what you think? best regards, rupert --- swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
