Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] Of Education-coop cabal: what's it, who's it, how one joins it, why is it like that?

[Floor Koudijs]

Thanks for your questions about the Wikipedia Education Collaborative (or
Collab). When the Collab was created in 2014, using a closed list was
deemed necessary so that this new group would have some time to figure out
how we might best work together without the whole community looking in,
offering advice and opinions. Over the past year, the Collab has been
working on finding its position and role within the movement, and this has
not always been easy.

As the team lead for the Wikipedia Education Program at the Wikimedia
Foundation and one of the members of the Collab, I see that a closed list
for discussions was necessary in this initial stage. As Samir pointed out,
the work is being done in all openness and whenever we have results we can
share with the world, we do that. A good example is the work done around
Recognition ,
where Collab members and WMF have jointly developed templated certificates
for students, teachers and program leaders, so that not each program needs
to develop their own. Another area Collab members are working on is
mentoring newer program leaders who have less experience in running an
education program. Mentoring often happens through individual email
exchange, a skype or hangout call or meeting at an international event.

We are currently working on improvements to the Collab model, and one of
the main focuses will be to make it more open and transparent. Membership
criteria will be based on activity levels more than on any official
process. The details are being worked out right now, but we are most
certainly taking into account that more transparency should be part of the
design.

Lastly, I'd like everyone to please assume good faith. The Collab was
created by a group of international community members who wanted to help
others around the world with an interest in Wikipedia in Education. Anyone
who'd like more information is welcome to reach out to individual Collab
members

or to our team .

Best,



Floor Koudijs

Senior Manager, Wikipedia Education Program

Wikimedia Foundation

+1.415.839.6885  x6806 (landline)

+1.415.692.5289 (cell phone)

fkoud...@wikimedia.org

education.wikimedia.org

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 1:28 PM, David Goodman  wrote:

> It answers all the questions, except why the limited participation is
> needed. Any WP-related project should be open, unless there is some special
> reason why that can stand up to scrutiny. The mere convenience of limiting
> discussion to a group of like minded people is not in my opinion a
> sufficient reason.
>
> Some may  wonder how I can write this while a member of the enWP arbcom,
> which has several closed lists and does not publish internal discussion or
> internal votes, except for actual case decisions, My answer is the closed
> lists are necessary for the protection of individuals under the fundamental
> WMF privacy policy, but I have strongly objected to the closed nature of
> many of our internal processes, and  I from my first day there have
> expressed the view that all of our actual votes should be open. I am in  a
> very small minority on this, and the actual reason given by the majority
> seems to be  that doing this would encourage dissenters, by revealing to
> people that not all our votes are unanimous.  They seem to think this a bad
> thing. I thing it  exactly the reason why they must be open.
>
> On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Samir Elsharbaty <
> selsharb...@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Bohdan,
> >
> > Thank you for your interest in Wikipedia Education Program
> >  and the Wikipedia
> > Education
> > Collaborative
> > <
> >
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative
> > >.
> > The Education Collaborative is a group of experienced program leaders who
> > have been running successful education programs for a long period of
> time.
> > The group aims at helping other program leaders, educators and other
> > program volunteers achieve their goals easier by providing the needed
> > advice and model programs.
> >
> > The Education Collaborative list is an internal mailing list for the
> member
> > discussions. It is closed for the members. However, the Collaborative is
> a
> > transparent initiative. The activities of the Collab is publicly reported
> > on the WMF blog
> > <
> >
> http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/11/25/education-collaborative-members-meet-edinburgh/
> > >
> > and the Education Newsletter [1
> > <
> >
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Newsletter/March_2014/Education_Cooperative_Kickoff_Meeting_in_Prague
> > >],
> > [2
> > <
> >
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Newsletter/November_2014/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative_members_meet_in_Edinburgh
> > >
> > ].
> >
> > Ple

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] Of Education-coop cabal: what's it, who's it, how one joins it, why is it like that?

[David Goodman]

It answers all the questions, except why the limited participation is
needed. Any WP-related project should be open, unless there is some special
reason why that can stand up to scrutiny. The mere convenience of limiting
discussion to a group of like minded people is not in my opinion a
sufficient reason.

Some may  wonder how I can write this while a member of the enWP arbcom,
which has several closed lists and does not publish internal discussion or
internal votes, except for actual case decisions, My answer is the closed
lists are necessary for the protection of individuals under the fundamental
WMF privacy policy, but I have strongly objected to the closed nature of
many of our internal processes, and  I from my first day there have
expressed the view that all of our actual votes should be open. I am in  a
very small minority on this, and the actual reason given by the majority
seems to be  that doing this would encourage dissenters, by revealing to
people that not all our votes are unanimous.  They seem to think this a bad
thing. I thing it  exactly the reason why they must be open.

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Samir Elsharbaty 
wrote:

> Hi Bohdan,
>
> Thank you for your interest in Wikipedia Education Program
>  and the Wikipedia
> Education
> Collaborative
> <
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative
> >.
> The Education Collaborative is a group of experienced program leaders who
> have been running successful education programs for a long period of time.
> The group aims at helping other program leaders, educators and other
> program volunteers achieve their goals easier by providing the needed
> advice and model programs.
>
> The Education Collaborative list is an internal mailing list for the member
> discussions. It is closed for the members. However, the Collaborative is a
> transparent initiative. The activities of the Collab is publicly reported
> on the WMF blog
> <
> http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/11/25/education-collaborative-members-meet-edinburgh/
> >
> and the Education Newsletter [1
> <
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Newsletter/March_2014/Education_Cooperative_Kickoff_Meeting_in_Prague
> >],
> [2
> <
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Newsletter/November_2014/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative_members_meet_in_Edinburgh
> >
> ].
>
> Please feel free to reach out to the Collab members listed here
> <
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative#Current_members
> >
> with any questions you may have about WEP or if you need help with
> coordinating any WEP-related events. I am sure they will be happy to help.
>
> As Vojtech has mentioned, please more read about the membership criteria
> here
> <
> https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative#Membership
> >.
> Generally, any active program leader can request membership of the
> Education Collaborative. However, they will need to meet the membership
> criteria e.g. the Collab need for new members, the current
> members/coordinators approval, etc.
>
> I hope that answers your questions. Please don't hesitate to contact me
> with any further questions you may have.
>
> Regards,
>
> Samir
>
> On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Bohdan Melnychuk  wrote:
>
> > While writing my letter of GLAM lists I recalled that I was once rejected
> > membership in Education-coop mailing list. The reason was "Closed List".
> >
> > As far as I know it's a list for a cabal of people who are working on
> > Education (an[1] Education Collaborative). I know of them since their
> > meeting in Prague[2] as a friend-wikimedian of mine attended it. The
> > process of selecting people to that meeting was quite cabalish (with
> > absolutely no public announcement) as well, iirc. During the meeting it
> was
> > completely ungooglable, iirc. IIRC, the only mention I found back then
> was
> > in some affiliate's google calendar. But I'm not about a meeting ages
> ago.
> > I'm about the collaborative itself.
> >
> > I'm not actually a person of WEP[3] but still I'm a person who don't
> likes
> > when things are hidden but there's no real reason to do it. It looks like
> > the case for me. I don't see why should it all be that much cabalish.
> > Doesn't collaborative a derivative from collaboration? My views on word
> are
> > often somewhat perfectionist but anyway I just can't see how
> collaboration
> > and making things that closed can co-exist.
> >
> > I'm fine with closed lists, teams and stuff in general as there are
> things
> > which should not be discussed in public or it could because it's easier
> to
> > make a tiny group of people do something instead of crying out to a lazy
> > unorganised crowd. But just make it clear how can one (apply to) join or
> > e.g. just join as a observer/non-voting commentator/whatever.
> >
> > Footnotes:
> > [1] afair the page on outreachwiki was ab

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] Of Education-coop cabal: what's it, who's it, how one joins it, why is it like that?

[Samir Elsharbaty]

Hi Bohdan,

Thank you for your interest in Wikipedia Education Program
 and the Wikipedia Education
Collaborative
.
The Education Collaborative is a group of experienced program leaders who
have been running successful education programs for a long period of time.
The group aims at helping other program leaders, educators and other
program volunteers achieve their goals easier by providing the needed
advice and model programs.

The Education Collaborative list is an internal mailing list for the member
discussions. It is closed for the members. However, the Collaborative is a
transparent initiative. The activities of the Collab is publicly reported
on the WMF blog

and the Education Newsletter [1
],
[2

].

Please feel free to reach out to the Collab members listed here

with any questions you may have about WEP or if you need help with
coordinating any WEP-related events. I am sure they will be happy to help.

As Vojtech has mentioned, please more read about the membership criteria
here
.
Generally, any active program leader can request membership of the
Education Collaborative. However, they will need to meet the membership
criteria e.g. the Collab need for new members, the current
members/coordinators approval, etc.

I hope that answers your questions. Please don't hesitate to contact me
with any further questions you may have.

Regards,

Samir

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Bohdan Melnychuk  wrote:

> While writing my letter of GLAM lists I recalled that I was once rejected
> membership in Education-coop mailing list. The reason was "Closed List".
>
> As far as I know it's a list for a cabal of people who are working on
> Education (an[1] Education Collaborative). I know of them since their
> meeting in Prague[2] as a friend-wikimedian of mine attended it. The
> process of selecting people to that meeting was quite cabalish (with
> absolutely no public announcement) as well, iirc. During the meeting it was
> completely ungooglable, iirc. IIRC, the only mention I found back then was
> in some affiliate's google calendar. But I'm not about a meeting ages ago.
> I'm about the collaborative itself.
>
> I'm not actually a person of WEP[3] but still I'm a person who don't likes
> when things are hidden but there's no real reason to do it. It looks like
> the case for me. I don't see why should it all be that much cabalish.
> Doesn't collaborative a derivative from collaboration? My views on word are
> often somewhat perfectionist but anyway I just can't see how collaboration
> and making things that closed can co-exist.
>
> I'm fine with closed lists, teams and stuff in general as there are things
> which should not be discussed in public or it could because it's easier to
> make a tiny group of people do something instead of crying out to a lazy
> unorganised crowd. But just make it clear how can one (apply to) join or
> e.g. just join as a observer/non-voting commentator/whatever.
>
> Footnotes:
> [1] afair the page on outreachwiki was about some older formation under
> the name. it's probably fixed since that time) Education Collaborative
> [2] was it already 2 years ago? time sure runs fast
> [3] which means that it's not like I can e.g. go organise a WEP thing
> offline — the most I can do in real actions is helping a WEP person. That's
> if actions are about WEP and not about something general which any
> wikimedian can do.
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Base
>
> ___
> Education mailing list
> educat...@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
>



-- 
Samir Elsharbaty,
Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program
Wikimedia Foundation
+2.011.200.696.77
selsharb...@wikimedia.org
education.wikimedia.org
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