Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-08 Thread とある白い猫
I have posted 4 sentences, kind of a draft of a draft of a draft. It is very overwhelming for me to draft text with near-legal precision on my own. -- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko) On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote: I'd say be bold and start drafting.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-08 Thread Keegan Peterzell
After running a task force for BLP in two phases over six months back in '09-'10, everything pointed toward something MZMcBride wrote on meta. It covers this. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/BLP https://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Task_force/Living_People/Drafting_pages/Living_People_Policy It

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-08 Thread Fred Bauder
I have posted 4 sentences, kind of a draft of a draft of a draft. It is very overwhelming for me to draft text with near-legal precision on my own. -- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko) I've added a bit. I'll do some copyediting later. Fred

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-06 Thread Gryllida
On Sat, 5 Oct 2013, at 18:47, Fred Bauder wrote: I've been thinking about this. Wikipedia is a compilation of information from sources that are generally considered reliable. The trouble is that the information in those sources varies. Rather than deciding ourselves, after all most of us are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-06 Thread Fred Bauder
On Sat, 5 Oct 2013, at 18:47, Fred Bauder wrote: I've been thinking about this. Wikipedia is a compilation of information from sources that are generally considered reliable. The trouble is that the information in those sources varies. Rather than deciding ourselves, after all most of us

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-05 Thread Fred Bauder
I've been thinking about this. Wikipedia is a compilation of information from sources that are generally considered reliable. The trouble is that the information in those sources varies. Rather than deciding ourselves, after all most of us are amateurs, what the truth is, we present all the views

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-04 Thread とある白い猫
Indeed larger wikis have vibrant local communities that uphold NPOV for the most part. Such wikis would not be affected by such a board resolution too much as they essentially upload NPOV anyways. Smaller developing wikis on the other hand sometimes have people who even want to create policies

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-02 Thread とある白い猫
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Legal_and_Community_Advocacy#Draft_of_text_for_a_binding_Neutral_Point_of_View_WMF_policy I started above text to draft a text for the board to review. -- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko) On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 5:56 PM, とある白い猫

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-02 Thread Asaf Bartov
I'd say be bold and start drafting. Many people respond to a flawed (or at least improvable) text more readily than they do to an open invitation to contribute. I, for one, share your perception that NPOV is a problem on some (perhaps most) Wikipedias, and think it'd be a good idea to bolster

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-02 Thread rupert THURNER
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote: ... I, for one, share your perception that NPOV is a problem on some (perhaps most) Wikipedias, asaf, could you please elaborate a little bit what you mean by this? do you not share the experience that the editors were

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-02 Thread Fred Bauder
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote: ... I, for one, share your perception that NPOV is a problem on some (perhaps most) Wikipedias, asaf, could you please elaborate a little bit what you mean by this? do you not share the experience that the editors

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-10-02 Thread MZMcBride
Asaf Bartov wrote: I'd say be bold and start drafting. Many people respond to a flawed (or at least improvable) text more readily than they do to an open invitation to contribute. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law :-) (There are occasionally suggestions of intentionally setting

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-17 Thread Katie Chan
On 17/09/2013 03:33, Risker wrote: I am not certain that neutral point of view applies to all Wikimedia projects. Wikiversity programs may deliberately examine one aspect of a subject while ignoring others, for example. It is difficult to apply the concept of neutrality to images and other

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-17 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Katie Chan, 17/09/2013 11:57: – have a strict *neutral point of view* (NPOV) policy. -- https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view And if you look at the history you'll see that the but not part is disputed. As for me, I've spent a few years debunking the myth that NPOV

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-17 Thread とある白い猫
I know that, you know that, people participating in this thread knows that, but for all practical purposes that's a forgotten random pre-WMF edit. I am not questioning the importance of Neutral Point of View, one of our core values. While larger wikis have this value enshrined and well enforced,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-17 Thread とある白い猫
For data oriented projects such as Wikidata, Wikisource, Commons I think NPOV still applies as we shouldn't censor data just because our POV has issues with it. Consider this in the context of - Mohammed image controversy for Commons (how they aren't deleted) - Bible versions for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-17 Thread Fred Bauder
I know that, you know that, people participating in this thread knows that, but for all practical purposes that's a forgotten random pre-WMF edit. I am not questioning the importance of Neutral Point of View, one of our core values. While larger wikis have this value enshrined and well

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-17 Thread Fred Bauder
I am not disputing how settled it is but I don't think meta sufficiently achieves expressing how settled this core value really is. As you stated it would be more of a restatement and re-emphasis of what already is a core value. -- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko) Yes, good idea,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-17 Thread Fred Bauder
I am not disputing how settled it is but I don't think meta sufficiently achieves expressing how settled this core value really is. As you stated it would be more of a restatement and re-emphasis of what already is a core value. -- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi

[Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-16 Thread とある白い猫
Hi all, I realize Resolution:Biographies of living people[1] implies this but I fail to see any resolution that establishes neutral point of view as one of our non-negotiable values. I think there is merit in having an over-arching resolution on a Neutral Point of View policy. I also feel

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-16 Thread Fred Bauder
Hi all, I realize Resolution:Biographies of living people[1] implies this but I fail to see any resolution that establishes neutral point of view as one of our non-negotiable values. I think there is merit in having an over-arching resolution on a Neutral Point of View policy. I also

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-16 Thread Risker
On 16 September 2013 21:45, とある白い猫 to.aru.shiroi.n...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I realize Resolution:Biographies of living people[1] implies this but I fail to see any resolution that establishes neutral point of view as one of our non-negotiable values. I think there is merit in having an

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-16 Thread Rschen7754
Wikivoyage uses https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Be_fair, which isn't exactly the same thing. Thanks, Rschen7754 rschen7754.w...@gmail.com On Sep 16, 2013, at 7:33 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 September 2013 21:45, とある白い猫 to.aru.shiroi.n...@gmail.com wrote: Hi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] : WMF resolution on neutral point of view

2013-09-16 Thread Michael Snow
On 9/16/2013 7:33 PM, Risker wrote: I am not certain that neutral point of view applies to all Wikimedia projects. Wikiversity programs may deliberately examine one aspect of a subject while ignoring others, for example. It is difficult to apply the concept of neutrality to images and other