Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

2018-04-09 Thread Kirill Lokshin
Hi Lodewijk,

You're entirely correct in that we don't want to see the situation in
Brazil remain as it is, and I think there are many potential ways forward
here.  Certainly, creating a new user group could be one of them; so could
a collaborative network of smaller, more localized groups, or perhaps an
entirely different structure that doesn't fit exactly into the current
affiliate model.

Having said that, I don't believe it's really our place, as a committee, to
tell the Brazilian community how to proceed; that decision is one that the
community will need to make after considering the specific needs that this
affiliate structure must serve and the degree to which different
stakeholders are willing (or not) to set aside their differences in order
to build it.  The Affiliations Committee can advise the community on how to
apply the existing affiliate model -- or even on how to transform it into
something new -- but it's ultimately the local community that will need to
decide what they can live with.

Regards,
Kirill

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 2:23 AM, Lodewijk 
wrote:

> Hi Kirill,
>
> Could you clarify what would be a path forward from this situation? For
> example, would you encourage someone to set up a new application for a user
> group in Brazil, if they have a good proposal (and/or proven commitment)
> for how to manage the collaboration with the whole Brazilian community?
>
> I doubt the intention of AffCom is to leave the situation in Brazil to
> remain broken indefinitely.
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Kirill Lokshin 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
>> organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
>> group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
>> mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
>> affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements, which
>> are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic organization,
>> or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia User
>> Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging in
>> activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations or
>> Wikimedia projects.
>>
>> As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
>> Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education Brazil —
>> have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has resulted
>> in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
>> activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict
>> have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
>> withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
>>
>> Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and
>> Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and the
>> Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
>> terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as practicable.
>> Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
>> these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
>> any user group application or existing user group for a period of one
>> year.
>>
>> The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
>> unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
>> Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
>> structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
>> participants and stakeholders in the country.
>>
>> Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
>> Affiliations Committee.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kirill Lokshin
>> Chair, Affiliations Committee
>> ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

2018-04-09 Thread Kirill Lokshin
Hi Ilario,

We're certainly very aware of the broader context of conflict between
overlapping local groups, and the potential for individuals to misuse the
user group model as a vehicle for attacking existing affiliates or
furthering personal disputes among affiliate leaders or members; there have
been several similar incidents in the past -- if, perhaps, none as severe
as what we saw in this case -- and it's something we've taken into account
when reviewing user group applications in recent months.

One of the main items on the agenda for our annual meeting in Berlin is a
discussion about overlapping affiliates -- both in the obvious geographic
sense, and in the broader sense of programmatic overlap between traditional
geographically-oriented groups and groups that focus on particular topics,
themes, or types of partners.  Our eventual goal, within the context of the
movement strategy discussions, is to evolve our current affiliate model to
better serve the needs of the (often overlapping) communities that form the
basis of movement affiliates, while preventing the sorts of inter-affiliate
conflicts that we've seen develop over the past few years.  I don't know,
at this point, what this evolved model might look like, but we anticipate
involving the community more closely in our discussions as the process
moves forward.

Regards,
Kirill

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 2:54 AM, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> Hi Kirill
> It makes sense to explain a little bit about the conflict management and
> the position of both sides to define why both groups have been
> derecognized.
>
> At the opposite this decision will give the feeling that, to attack a
> local Group, it will be sufficient to create another local Group and to be
> recognized and to open a conflict and to drive all parties to unresolute it
> to reach the primary and original goal.
>
> Kind regards
>
> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 20:20 Kirill Lokshin, 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
>> organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
>> group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
>> mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
>> affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements, which
>> are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic organization,
>> or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia User
>> Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging in
>> activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations or
>> Wikimedia projects.
>>
>> As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
>> Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education Brazil —
>> have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has resulted
>> in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
>> activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict
>> have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
>> withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
>>
>> Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and
>> Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and the
>> Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
>> terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as practicable.
>> Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
>> these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
>> any user group application or existing user group for a period of one
>> year.
>>
>> The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
>> unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
>> Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
>> structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
>> participants and stakeholders in the country.
>>
>> Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
>> Affiliations Committee.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kirill Lokshin
>> Chair, Affiliations Committee
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

2018-04-09 Thread Isaac Olatunde
Hi Kiril,

You wrote above "all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict have
failed". It would be interesting to let us have the idea of these
reasonable attempts. Why did you think de-recognizing these groups is the
best decision? What I understood from Tele's comment is that you did
nothing to resolve the issues and you just watched the conflicts escalated.
This is probably  not a good thing to hear about the affiliation committee.

Regards,

Isaac

On Apr 9, 2018 7:54 AM, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:

> Hi Kirill
> It makes sense to explain a little bit about the conflict management and
> the position of both sides to define why both groups have been
> derecognized.
>
> At the opposite this decision will give the feeling that, to attack a
> local Group, it will be sufficient to create another local Group and to be
> recognized and to open a conflict and to drive all parties to unresolute it
> to reach the primary and original goal.
>
> Kind regards
>
> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 20:20 Kirill Lokshin, 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
>> organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
>> group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
>> mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
>> affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements, which
>> are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic organization,
>> or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia User
>> Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging in
>> activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations or
>> Wikimedia projects.
>>
>> As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
>> Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education Brazil —
>> have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has resulted
>> in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
>> activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict
>> have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
>> withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
>>
>> Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and
>> Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and the
>> Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
>> terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as practicable.
>> Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
>> these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
>> any user group application or existing user group for a period of one
>> year.
>>
>> The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
>> unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
>> Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
>> structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
>> participants and stakeholders in the country.
>>
>> Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
>> Affiliations Committee.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kirill Lokshin
>> Chair, Affiliations Committee
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>
>
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>
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