Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-07 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Hi Ziko, When WMPT was forced by AffCom early this year to change the old chapter agreement we had signed in 2009 for a new one, which we were told was the current model for everyone, the main difference between the two was precisely the end of the chapter hegemony over the national territory. We

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-07 Thread Chris Keating
Hi Ziko, I believe the only "official" rationale is in the 2012 Board resolution: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Resolutions/Recognizing_Models_of_Affiliations and the thinking behind this is documented here, also from 2011-12. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles_project I do

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-07 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Sorry, people, but I would like to read an official statement of the WMF (committee) what is the reason or rationale behind this policy to accept WM user groups in countries where you already have a chapter. Does anybody have a link? Kind regards Ziko Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 19:16 Uhr schrieb

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-05 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Hi Farhad, Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight. The advantages at an organizational level are quite obvious, indeed, and it's a smart way to deal with those membership limitations. I'm glad that the WMF & Wikimedia is abandoning the very rigid chapter model as the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-05 Thread Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
Thanks for the clarification and the insights. This could be a really interesting organizative model for huge countries, even for countries with more than one chapter but not a country level one, as happens in the USA. 2019 urr. 5 4:38 PM erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-05 Thread Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin
Hi folks, I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a Tatar language-specific UG. On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-04 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
BTW, I seem to recall that in last ASBS election, affiliates which presented something like 70% member overlap with another affiliate would not be allowed to participate in the process. If this practice is kept, it avoids gaming the system (intentionally or unintentionally) through a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-04 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Hey, "*1) if a group has more active cores, maybe they should be more broadly represented in Berlin. Maybe these constructs shouldn't be necessary.*" -> I can agree with that point, yes; "*2) No matter how much some care about the ASBS, I doubt that this will be a driving force to get more

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-04 Thread effe iets anders
Sure, if you want to see it through that lens I guess you could argue such. However, just to put things in perspective: 1) if a group has more active cores, maybe they should be more broadly represented in Berlin. Maybe these constructs shouldn't be necessary. 2) No matter how much some care about

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-04 Thread Andy Mabbett
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 23:02, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > Andy Mabbett escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019 >> On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta >> wrote: >> > > Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's > >basically a cell of Wikimedia Russia? > > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-04 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
This is a very interesting strategy for any well developed affiliate. It allows : * decentralization, and stronger local groups, now as full fledged affiliates * more seats in Berlin and other conferences * more votes in the ASBS election * less financial burden over the national chapter, and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-04 Thread Philip Kopetzky
I can only reiterate what Lodewijk said - I'm trying to find the approach and goals in the decision to acknowledge user groups that seem to be an integral part (or from an outside perspective, should be) of the national chapter. In the past this has been an indicator of personal conflicts within a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-03 Thread effe iets anders
I would like to note that one of the contacts of this user group is Vladimir Medeyko, the director of Wikimedia Russia. I'm assuming comfortably that this application happened in full coordination with Wikimedia Russia. The question about process is still an interesting one though (what is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-03 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Wikimedia NYC is a very different situation, there is not a national chapter in the US, so it's not a cell of anything. Just to clarify: Saint Petersburg eventually could not be a cell, but the way it is presented (to promote Wikimedia RU activities in SP, with same Wikimedia RU people), it's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-03 Thread Yuri Astrakhan
What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational status) On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't believe > it compares with a city UG. > > Paulo > > Andy Mabbett escreveu no dia quinta,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-03 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't believe it compares with a city UG. Paulo Andy Mabbett escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019 à(s) 22:53: > On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta > wrote: > > > Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-03 Thread Andy Mabbett
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's basically > a cell of Wikimedia Russia? > > It's a curious precedent. The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia Community User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-03 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
I don't see a problem with sending several representatives to the Wikimedia Summit, instead of 1, as would be the case if there was only Wikimedia Russia (that would be a Wikimedia Summit problem). But cells of Wikimedia Russia or other national chapters voting for ASBS elections is a different

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-03 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's basically a cell of Wikimedia Russia? It's a curious precedent. Paulo Asaf Bartov escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019 à(s) 20:41: > Ziko: Yes, it is about the major Russian city. And one of its listed > contacts is the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-03 Thread Asaf Bartov
Ziko: Yes, it is about the major Russian city. And one of its listed contacts is the longstanding president of Wikimedia Russia itself. Philip: this is not an example of a large country being "split up", since Wikimedia Russia is still around, and was not broken up. It is also not the first

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-03 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Hello Philip, I was asking the same question - isn't there already a Wikimedia Rossiya - but I guess this is the User Group of Saint Petersburg in Florida (USA), not Sankt Peterburg in Russia. Oh wait... this IS about the city in Russia!

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-03 Thread Lane Rasberry
A usergroup for every city! On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:15 AM Philip Kopetzky wrote: > Hi Kirill, > > so it seems like geographically large countries are being split up into > different user groups - do you think that this is a viable model for the > future or just happened because of certain

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

2019-10-03 Thread Philip Kopetzky
Hi Kirill, so it seems like geographically large countries are being split up into different user groups - do you think that this is a viable model for the future or just happened because of certain circumstances within the Russian community? Would your template allow a User Group from Rome,