Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] Of Education-coop cabal: what's it, who's it, how one joins it, why is it like that?
Thanks for your questions about the Wikipedia Education Collaborative (or Collab). When the Collab was created in 2014, using a closed list was deemed necessary so that this new group would have some time to figure out how we might best work together without the whole community looking in, offering advice and opinions. Over the past year, the Collab has been working on finding its position and role within the movement, and this has not always been easy. As the team lead for the Wikipedia Education Program at the Wikimedia Foundation and one of the members of the Collab, I see that a closed list for discussions was necessary in this initial stage. As Samir pointed out, the work is being done in all openness and whenever we have results we can share with the world, we do that. A good example is the work done around Recognition https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Recognition, where Collab members and WMF have jointly developed templated certificates for students, teachers and program leaders, so that not each program needs to develop their own. Another area Collab members are working on is mentoring newer program leaders who have less experience in running an education program. Mentoring often happens through individual email exchange, a skype or hangout call or meeting at an international event. We are currently working on improvements to the Collab model, and one of the main focuses will be to make it more open and transparent. Membership criteria will be based on activity levels more than on any official process. The details are being worked out right now, but we are most certainly taking into account that more transparency should be part of the design. Lastly, I'd like everyone to please assume good faith. The Collab was created by a group of international community members who wanted to help others around the world with an interest in Wikipedia in Education. Anyone who'd like more information is welcome to reach out to individual Collab members https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative#Current_members or to our team https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/About/Staff. Best, Floor Koudijs Senior Manager, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +1.415.839.6885 x6806 (landline) +1.415.692.5289 (cell phone) fkoud...@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 1:28 PM, David Goodman dgge...@gmail.com wrote: It answers all the questions, except why the limited participation is needed. Any WP-related project should be open, unless there is some special reason why that can stand up to scrutiny. The mere convenience of limiting discussion to a group of like minded people is not in my opinion a sufficient reason. Some may wonder how I can write this while a member of the enWP arbcom, which has several closed lists and does not publish internal discussion or internal votes, except for actual case decisions, My answer is the closed lists are necessary for the protection of individuals under the fundamental WMF privacy policy, but I have strongly objected to the closed nature of many of our internal processes, and I from my first day there have expressed the view that all of our actual votes should be open. I am in a very small minority on this, and the actual reason given by the majority seems to be that doing this would encourage dissenters, by revealing to people that not all our votes are unanimous. They seem to think this a bad thing. I thing it exactly the reason why they must be open. On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Samir Elsharbaty selsharb...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi Bohdan, Thank you for your interest in Wikipedia Education Program https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education and the Wikipedia Education Collaborative https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative . The Education Collaborative is a group of experienced program leaders who have been running successful education programs for a long period of time. The group aims at helping other program leaders, educators and other program volunteers achieve their goals easier by providing the needed advice and model programs. The Education Collaborative list is an internal mailing list for the member discussions. It is closed for the members. However, the Collaborative is a transparent initiative. The activities of the Collab is publicly reported on the WMF blog http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/11/25/education-collaborative-members-meet-edinburgh/ and the Education Newsletter [1 https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Newsletter/March_2014/Education_Cooperative_Kickoff_Meeting_in_Prague ], [2 https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Newsletter/November_2014/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative_members_meet_in_Edinburgh ]. Please feel free to reach out to the Collab members listed here
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] Of Education-coop cabal: what's it, who's it, how one joins it, why is it like that?
It answers all the questions, except why the limited participation is needed. Any WP-related project should be open, unless there is some special reason why that can stand up to scrutiny. The mere convenience of limiting discussion to a group of like minded people is not in my opinion a sufficient reason. Some may wonder how I can write this while a member of the enWP arbcom, which has several closed lists and does not publish internal discussion or internal votes, except for actual case decisions, My answer is the closed lists are necessary for the protection of individuals under the fundamental WMF privacy policy, but I have strongly objected to the closed nature of many of our internal processes, and I from my first day there have expressed the view that all of our actual votes should be open. I am in a very small minority on this, and the actual reason given by the majority seems to be that doing this would encourage dissenters, by revealing to people that not all our votes are unanimous. They seem to think this a bad thing. I thing it exactly the reason why they must be open. On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Samir Elsharbaty selsharb...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi Bohdan, Thank you for your interest in Wikipedia Education Program https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education and the Wikipedia Education Collaborative https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative . The Education Collaborative is a group of experienced program leaders who have been running successful education programs for a long period of time. The group aims at helping other program leaders, educators and other program volunteers achieve their goals easier by providing the needed advice and model programs. The Education Collaborative list is an internal mailing list for the member discussions. It is closed for the members. However, the Collaborative is a transparent initiative. The activities of the Collab is publicly reported on the WMF blog http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/11/25/education-collaborative-members-meet-edinburgh/ and the Education Newsletter [1 https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Newsletter/March_2014/Education_Cooperative_Kickoff_Meeting_in_Prague ], [2 https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Newsletter/November_2014/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative_members_meet_in_Edinburgh ]. Please feel free to reach out to the Collab members listed here https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative#Current_members with any questions you may have about WEP or if you need help with coordinating any WEP-related events. I am sure they will be happy to help. As Vojtech has mentioned, please more read about the membership criteria here https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative#Membership . Generally, any active program leader can request membership of the Education Collaborative. However, they will need to meet the membership criteria e.g. the Collab need for new members, the current members/coordinators approval, etc. I hope that answers your questions. Please don't hesitate to contact me with any further questions you may have. Regards, Samir On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Bohdan Melnychuk bas...@yandex.ru wrote: While writing my letter of GLAM lists I recalled that I was once rejected membership in Education-coop mailing list. The reason was Closed List. As far as I know it's a list for a cabal of people who are working on Education (an[1] Education Collaborative). I know of them since their meeting in Prague[2] as a friend-wikimedian of mine attended it. The process of selecting people to that meeting was quite cabalish (with absolutely no public announcement) as well, iirc. During the meeting it was completely ungooglable, iirc. IIRC, the only mention I found back then was in some affiliate's google calendar. But I'm not about a meeting ages ago. I'm about the collaborative itself. I'm not actually a person of WEP[3] but still I'm a person who don't likes when things are hidden but there's no real reason to do it. It looks like the case for me. I don't see why should it all be that much cabalish. Doesn't collaborative a derivative from collaboration? My views on word are often somewhat perfectionist but anyway I just can't see how collaboration and making things that closed can co-exist. I'm fine with closed lists, teams and stuff in general as there are things which should not be discussed in public or it could because it's easier to make a tiny group of people do something instead of crying out to a lazy unorganised crowd. But just make it clear how can one (apply to) join or e.g. just join as a observer/non-voting commentator/whatever. Footnotes: [1] afair the page on outreachwiki was about some older formation under the name. it's probably fixed since that time) Education
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] Of Education-coop cabal: what's it, who's it, how one joins it, why is it like that?
Hi Bohdan, Thank you for your interest in Wikipedia Education Program https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education and the Wikipedia Education Collaborative https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative. The Education Collaborative is a group of experienced program leaders who have been running successful education programs for a long period of time. The group aims at helping other program leaders, educators and other program volunteers achieve their goals easier by providing the needed advice and model programs. The Education Collaborative list is an internal mailing list for the member discussions. It is closed for the members. However, the Collaborative is a transparent initiative. The activities of the Collab is publicly reported on the WMF blog http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/11/25/education-collaborative-members-meet-edinburgh/ and the Education Newsletter [1 https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Newsletter/March_2014/Education_Cooperative_Kickoff_Meeting_in_Prague], [2 https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Newsletter/November_2014/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative_members_meet_in_Edinburgh ]. Please feel free to reach out to the Collab members listed here https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative#Current_members with any questions you may have about WEP or if you need help with coordinating any WEP-related events. I am sure they will be happy to help. As Vojtech has mentioned, please more read about the membership criteria here https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Wikipedia_Education_Collaborative#Membership. Generally, any active program leader can request membership of the Education Collaborative. However, they will need to meet the membership criteria e.g. the Collab need for new members, the current members/coordinators approval, etc. I hope that answers your questions. Please don't hesitate to contact me with any further questions you may have. Regards, Samir On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Bohdan Melnychuk bas...@yandex.ru wrote: While writing my letter of GLAM lists I recalled that I was once rejected membership in Education-coop mailing list. The reason was Closed List. As far as I know it's a list for a cabal of people who are working on Education (an[1] Education Collaborative). I know of them since their meeting in Prague[2] as a friend-wikimedian of mine attended it. The process of selecting people to that meeting was quite cabalish (with absolutely no public announcement) as well, iirc. During the meeting it was completely ungooglable, iirc. IIRC, the only mention I found back then was in some affiliate's google calendar. But I'm not about a meeting ages ago. I'm about the collaborative itself. I'm not actually a person of WEP[3] but still I'm a person who don't likes when things are hidden but there's no real reason to do it. It looks like the case for me. I don't see why should it all be that much cabalish. Doesn't collaborative a derivative from collaboration? My views on word are often somewhat perfectionist but anyway I just can't see how collaboration and making things that closed can co-exist. I'm fine with closed lists, teams and stuff in general as there are things which should not be discussed in public or it could because it's easier to make a tiny group of people do something instead of crying out to a lazy unorganised crowd. But just make it clear how can one (apply to) join or e.g. just join as a observer/non-voting commentator/whatever. Footnotes: [1] afair the page on outreachwiki was about some older formation under the name. it's probably fixed since that time) Education Collaborative [2] was it already 2 years ago? time sure runs fast [3] which means that it's not like I can e.g. go organise a WEP thing offline — the most I can do in real actions is helping a WEP person. That's if actions are about WEP and not about something general which any wikimedian can do. Yours sincerely, Base ___ Education mailing list educat...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education -- Samir Elsharbaty, Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +2.011.200.696.77 selsharb...@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
