Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-14 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, I do appreciate Denny. However, your notion that "we're lucky to have him" flies in the face of him leaving the board. He now does no longer a COI working at Google. Have you considered that he might have been more worthwhile to us having remained on the board and having been more outspoken

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-12 Thread
When a board member has special 'enthusiasms', it can be normal for the board to seek their view as an inside expert, however it can easily turn out to be a mistake if a trustee vote includes their vote, especially if the community wishes to see trustee voting becoming more transparent. This is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-12 Thread Ting Chen
Hello Anthony, in my opinion, the board should not discuss individual projects, at least when I was on the board we decided not to. The board looks at policies that are more general and global. The resolutions that the board issued, which do impact the projects, are (or at least were) always

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-12 Thread Anthony Cole
Hi Ting. You say, "...a board member should not foster his or her own pet projects." It's just one vote out of ten (normally). If they can't persuade their colleagues, the motion won't pass. In the case of community-selected trustees, they were put there by people who know their enthusiasms and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-12 Thread Ting Chen
Hello Anthony, in my opinion a board member should not foster his or her own pet projects. The WMF board members are leading a global movement. When everyone of them are fosting their own pet projects other projects may suffer. The board members should be beyond the single projects and give

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-12 Thread Anthony Cole
Ugh. Sorry. I mean: should involvement in and advocacy for a particular movement initiative disqualify one from voting on motions related to that initiative? Anthony Cole On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Anthony Cole wrote: > jytdog, regarding: > > "Going forward, there

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-12 Thread Anthony Cole
jytdog, regarding: "Going forward, there should be a) a clear disclosure of relevant outside interests and b) a pre-agreed COI management plan where those interests conflict with a Trustee's obligations, before Trustees formally step into the role." When you say "relevant outside interests" what

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-12 Thread Anthony Cole
Good points worth repeating, though, jytdog. We're learning as we go here. COI is notoriously difficult to anticipate and manage. None of us, that I'm aware of, thought about - or at least discussed - the implications of his Google role when he ran for the board, and when it became too onerous to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-12 Thread jytdog
This is kind of frustrating. Lila (speaking for the board) in her "Why we changed " message, identified falling page views (creating a threat of falling donation revenue) caused by folks like Google repurposing

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-12 Thread Anthony Cole
I agree with all of that, MZ. As to your questions: "Shouldn't we be applauding Google and others for helping us share our knowledge with the world?" Yes. "What size do you think the Wikimedia Foundation should be in terms of yearly budget and number of full-time employees? How much bigger or

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-11 Thread MZMcBride
Anthony Cole wrote: >Google's "info boxes" and their answers at the top of their results, we're >all agreed now, I think, are impacting Wikipedia's page views and, >consequently, our ability to raise funds and recruit new volunteers. Google and others have a direct interest in their data being

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-11 Thread Anthony Cole
Just for the record, I raised the conflict of interest issue with Denny in more than one venue - a Signpost discussion and (I think) here, and I discussed it in other places. I never suggested he was a mole for Google and I'm not aware of anyone who did - though I may have missed or forgotten.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-11 Thread Andrea Zanni
>>>I feel that Denny's decision to resign makes sense, and in no way does this >>>decision put a cloud over his continued involvement in our community. Pine, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you are doing a very common mistake in the Wikimedia world: you are not taking into account

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-11 Thread Brill Lyle
Thanks for the response, Pine. I don't know if I agree with your assessment re: resigning being the solution, but I am as not fully versed in many of the details as you are obviously. I see this resignation as a real loss to the community, and hope that possibly going forward there might be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-11 Thread Gnangarra
This is one inherrant problem with COI those who get stuff done are forced to sit out discussions in preference for those who spend all their time talking and producing nothing. What we end up with is not leadership, its not project experience, its bureaucracy with out any true direction where

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-11 Thread rupert THURNER
For denny I see the situation simple and I am only able to write it as I read his clear email. First he is able to influence projects and general direction with his judgement and expertise. Second he has the expertise to get projects done. While I find it a real pity that we have less of first

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-10 Thread jytdog
Here is a response to Denny's resignation; his email has been sticking to me. To provide some context for what follows, I work a lot on COI and advocacy issues in Wikipedia, and worked on COI issues professionally at a university for the past 15 years. The limitations created by managing or

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-10 Thread Pine W
Brill, Speaking generally (meaning, not in regard to the specific situation of Denny), conflict of interest issues do happen on a regular basis. In my experience, we also generally handle them well. Having numerous business relationships and interests is common in the business world. Many times

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-09 Thread Brill Lyle
I find this issue of Conflict of Interest exceedingly problematic. Almost every person working and living today will have a conflict of interest somehow, especially as one becomes a contributor to any of the Wikimedia projects, gets to know people, tries to organize events or promote the value of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-09 Thread David Cuenca Tudela
Hi Denny, Thanks for explaining your reasoning, which hints towards a lack of tolerance and understanding towards people wearing several hats. It doesn't have an easy solution, as there is too much lack of trust. The only thing I wish is that your decision enables you to participate in the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-09 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi Denny Your email is very interesting to understand the conflict you were experimenting to introduce innovation and good ideas in Wikimedia projects. In my opinion the biggest problem is the overlapping between direction and execution. Do you think that your action would be less efficient

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-09 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Denny I am sorry to have lost a friend who is on the board but I am happy to welcome back a friend who can now express his ideas, his notions, his opposition, his point of view. Yes you work for Google. For me it means that you are again in an unique position to be an ambassador for both

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-08 Thread Brion Vibber
Denny, thanks for all the work you've put in over the years and in your time on the board in particular -- it's been rough indeed lately, and I understand the need to refocus. Looking forward to continuing to hear from you in the future! -- brion On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Denny Vrandecic

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-08 Thread Erik Moeller
Hey Denny -- Kudos for your well-reasoned decision, and for your service on the Board during a very challenging time. One of the beautiful things about Wikimedia is how much scope you can have to move things forward without any special roles or affiliation. I very much look forward to reading

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-08 Thread Sydney Poore
Denny, Thank you for your very thoughtful email. I appreciate your reasoning. Sydney Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wikipedian in Residence at Cochrane Collaboration On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Manuel Schneider < manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.ch> wrote: > Thanks a lot Denny for your honest and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-08 Thread Manuel Schneider
Thanks a lot Denny for your honest and inspiring mail. I kept stumm for the most part of the last month's controversy, as I merely could have +1ed a lot of stuff that has been said and that's not worth spinding bandwidth and people's time. Now I want to take that time to say thank you, for your

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-08 Thread Mardetanha
sad news to hear wish you best of luck Mardetanha On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 10:47 PM, Denny Vrandecic wrote: > I exchanged a walk on part in the war for a lead role in the cage. > > I find myself tied and limited in my actions and projects. In order to > avoid the

[Wikimedia-l] [recent changes]

2016-04-08 Thread Denny Vrandecic
I exchanged a walk on part in the war for a lead role in the cage. I find myself tied and limited in my actions and projects. In order to avoid the perception or potential for Conflict of Interests I have to act extremely carefully in far too many parts of my life. Instead of being able to pursue