Re: [Wikimedia-l] the hidden toolbox

2012-09-19 Thread JP Béland
2012/9/19 MZMcBride > David Gerard wrote: > > That there was a plausible reason to hide functionality doesn't mean > > it actually works out to be a good idea, and it arguably not working > > out to be one is the point of this thread. It turns out that if you > > obscure functionality, people don

Re: [Wikimedia-l] the hidden toolbox

2012-09-19 Thread MZMcBride
David Gerard wrote: > That there was a plausible reason to hide functionality doesn't mean > it actually works out to be a good idea, and it arguably not working > out to be one is the point of this thread. It turns out that if you > obscure functionality, people don't know it exists and their use

Re: [Wikimedia-l] the hidden toolbox

2012-09-19 Thread Andrew Gray
NSince sending that last email, I've been thinking about why the toolboxes are effectively hidden. (I don't disagree they are - to a new user, having a link in a collapsed toolbox is functionally equivalent to it not existing) One possible problem is that the collapsed toolbox has, visibly, very f

Re: [Wikimedia-l] the hidden toolbox

2012-09-19 Thread David Gerard
On 19 September 2012 17:27, Andrew Gray wrote: > On 17 September 2012 19:27, David Gerard > > wrote: >> On 17 September 2012 18:03, Samuel Klein > > wrote: >>> They were designed to be used, after all. >>> I also haven't seen any solid argument for collapsing any navboxes by >>> default (except p

[Wikimedia-l] the hidden toolbox

2012-09-19 Thread Andrew Gray
On 17 September 2012 19:27, David Gerard > wrote: > On 17 September 2012 18:03, Samuel Klein > wrote: > >> Naturally every link wants to escape from the toolbox, if it's collapsed >> :-) >> They were designed to be used, after all. >> I also haven't seen any solid argument for collapsing any navbox

Re: [Wikimedia-l] the hidden toolbox

2012-09-17 Thread David Gerard
On 17 September 2012 18:03, Samuel Klein wrote: > Naturally every link wants to escape from the toolbox, if it's collapsed > :-) > They were designed to be used, after all. > I also haven't seen any solid argument for collapsing any navboxes by > default (except perhaps those in the topnav which

Re: [Wikimedia-l] the hidden toolbox

2012-09-17 Thread Samuel Klein
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: > The result so far seems to be only that everyone wants to escape from the > toolbox, see e.g. wiki/Collection_Extension_2#**Wireframe_Layout_for_placing_** > the_print_and_Collection_**extension_buttons

Re: [Wikimedia-l] the hidden toolbox

2012-09-16 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Well, this was discussed at length in 2010 (one of the threads was started by yourself): e.g. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation/45758 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation/46089 The big question is still valid: just hiding what's found to be used less makes

[Wikimedia-l] the hidden toolbox

2012-09-16 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Hello, Time after time I run into new users of Wikimedia projects who don't know that they can use the functions that are available in the Toolbox on the sidebar, such as "What links here", "Upload file", "User contributions" and "E-mail this user". I pointed these people to the toolbox, because t