Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
Hey James, On 01/14/2013 09:27 PM, James Alexander wrote: I generally agree that banners have been overused, they have a big effect but a big presence and we don't want to abuse that. I'm really happy to see things like Echo being worked on in Engineering which will add a much better 'intermediate' choice for messaging which we currently really don't have. I wasn't aware of Echo (seems to be a fairly new project). Actually I proposed a similar project during the lightning talks 2011 in Haifa. Glad to see that WMF finally tackles this issue :) The size of the banner was a conscious choice but one I thought about for a fair bit. It's what I would generally consider a 'medium' banner but has clearly migrated itself to being one of the larger types that we use, compared to the past couple years where they tended to be significantly bigger (generally mirroring the size of the fundraising banners at the time which were significantly larger then this). These ones are around 100px which is the size or smaller (depending on the banner) then the fundraising banners this year (before they expanded). For those interested the general idea I was trying to do was to pick a size that was the smallest it could be while still getting the information across that I thought was important. In general that meant I wanted: - Everyone to know that it was a shop banner, I didn't want anyone clicking on it without knowing that's what it was ( or at least as few people as we can). - To know that it was targeted at Editors/Volunteers and that some of the merch was specifically targeted at that. - To know that it was run by the foundation so that people, hopefully, don't think that we've been hacked or that some random shop was doing this. - Be generally readable without effort I wanted to more specifically call out on the banner that the profits went to the Merchandise Giveaway Program that has been a runaway success but, to be honest, I both ran out of space and it's more of a reality for the public push because we've cut out almost all of the margin for the logged in sale. I try to support a bunch of different window sizes and resolutions and in the end it just didn't seem to work well any smaller then this (but didn't have to be any bigger). We still have some issues with the smaller side of windows/resolutions and am still looking at good ways to adapt for that but are getting there. Alright, I'm glad you put much thought into this. Hopefully in the future we'll have a better tool with Echo that permits less obtrusive ways of informing our readers. Best regards, Tobias ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
[Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
Hello, I just wanted to share my feelings: I went to en.wikipedia.org today and I saw this message on top: Happy Birthday Wikipedia! 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop My first impression was: I think I mistyped the URL... //Saper ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
My weather-forecast for this mailinglist today - Storms. Hans A. Rosbach On 14 January 2013 10:04, Marcin Cieslak sa...@saper.info wrote: Hello, I just wanted to share my feelings: I went to en.wikipedia.org today and I saw this message on top: Happy Birthday Wikipedia! 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop My first impression was: I think I mistyped the URL... //Saper ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
Marcin Cieslak wrote: I just wanted to share my feelings: I went to en.wikipedia.org today and I saw this message on top: Happy Birthday Wikipedia! 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop My first impression was: I think I mistyped the URL... I primarily contribute to Wikipedia, so I can't say for sure, but I would imagine it wouldn't feel great to look at the Wikimedia Shop right now as a Wiktionarian or a Wikinewsie or a Wikisorcerer or I primarily contribute in English, so I can't say for sure, but I would imagine it wouldn't feel great to look at the Wikimedia Shop right now as someone who primarily speaks French or Spanish or German or Italian or I imagine most active users have given up on CentralNotice and have the banners permanently hidden while logged in. But it isn't the banner that bothers me as much as the place to which it leads. These are solvable problems. We can do better. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
Aye, I know it's something new and not that not all together uncontroversial. I posted about my thoughts and proposed plan on enWP last week ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)#Wikimedia_Shop_Central_Notices_and_Sale_for_Wikipedia_Birthdaywith a pointer on WP:AN) and while we got relatively little conversation on wiki I got a lot of feedback from community members off wiki as well. It was also in the signpost notes last week ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-01-07/News_and_notes) In fact I got 10 users emailing complaining that I was late setting it up this evening (they were right). The test planned for tomorrow (for Anonymous users in North America, without a discount) is mostly to see the potential for this to fund the Giveaway program we've been running ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Merchandise_giveaways ) that is a run away success. We see both of these as very much a test and even if it succeeds something that should only be done incredibly rarely and with community input, but I think it's a good thing to test. James James Alexander Manager, Merchandise Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:04 AM, Marcin Cieslak sa...@saper.info wrote: Hello, I just wanted to share my feelings: I went to en.wikipedia.org today and I saw this message on top: Happy Birthday Wikipedia! 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop My first impression was: I think I mistyped the URL... //Saper ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
James Alexander, 14/01/2013 10:44: The test planned for tomorrow (for Anonymous users in North America, without a discount) is mostly to see the potential for this to fund the Giveaway program we've been running ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Merchandise_giveaways ) that is a run away success. Do I understand correctly that you meant to target the notice to USA users only? That's a good idea, probably, given the unaddressed complaints on undelivered items abroad https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_merchandise#USPS_Priority_Mail_Int.27l_reliability; but I did see it this morning, so perhaps something went wrong. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
On 14 January 2013 10:34, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: James Alexander, 14/01/2013 10:44: The test planned for tomorrow (for Anonymous users in North America, without a discount) is mostly to see the potential for this to fund the Giveaway program we've been running ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Merchandise_giveaways ) that is a run away success. Do I understand correctly that you meant to target the notice to USA users only? That's a good idea, probably, given the unaddressed complaints on undelivered items abroad https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_merchandise#USPS_Priority_Mail_Int.27l_reliability; but I did see it this morning, so perhaps something went wrong. Visible here in the UK. - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote: James Alexander, 14/01/2013 10:44: The test planned for tomorrow (for Anonymous users in North America, without a discount) is mostly to see the potential for this to fund the Giveaway program we've been running ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Wikipedia:Merchandise_**giveawayshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Merchandise_giveaways) that is a run away success. Do I understand correctly that you meant to target the notice to USA users only? That's a good idea, probably, given the unaddressed complaints on undelivered items abroad https://meta.wikimedia.org/** wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_**merchandise#USPS_Priority_**Mail_Int.27l_reliabilityhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_merchandise#USPS_Priority_Mail_Int.27l_reliability; but I did see it this morning, so perhaps something went wrong. Nemo The survey today is worldwide but the one for tomorrow is supposed to be North America in general (we've found that shipping to Canada and Mexico is much better overall). That said however thank you for showing me that link, somehow I didn't get my normal notification and missed it. I responded on wiki as well now but you should know that we were seeing the same problems. To be honest I was taken by surprise at how bad USPS Priority was internationally despite their promises to the contrary. Because of that we took it away as an option for International users completely and no longer use it for our flat rate shipping either (which we subsidize so that no one has to pay too much). Currently all international packages are going to be sent FedEx which we've used as a foundation for a very long timer with success. FYI: It's about 3am here so I'm going to be heading to bed but will obviously be able to answer more questions in the morning if there are any. James ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:46 AM, James Alexander jalexan...@wikimedia.orgwrote: The survey today is worldwide And by survey I obviously mean banner...clearly time for sleep James Alexander Manager, Merchandise Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
James, Do be careful about using FedEx for stuff that has to be there by a particular day. When the WMF has posted things to me in the past, FedEx have refused to deliver on weekends, leaving me with a trip to the airport in the snow to pick up the packages! Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 14 January 2013 10:46, James Alexander jalexan...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:34 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: James Alexander, 14/01/2013 10:44: The test planned for tomorrow (for Anonymous users in North America, without a discount) is mostly to see the potential for this to fund the Giveaway program we've been running ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Wikipedia:Merchandise_**giveaways http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Merchandise_giveaways) that is a run away success. Do I understand correctly that you meant to target the notice to USA users only? That's a good idea, probably, given the unaddressed complaints on undelivered items abroad https://meta.wikimedia.org/** wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_**merchandise#USPS_Priority_**Mail_Int.27l_reliability https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_merchandise#USPS_Priority_Mail_Int.27l_reliability ; but I did see it this morning, so perhaps something went wrong. Nemo The survey today is worldwide but the one for tomorrow is supposed to be North America in general (we've found that shipping to Canada and Mexico is much better overall). That said however thank you for showing me that link, somehow I didn't get my normal notification and missed it. I responded on wiki as well now but you should know that we were seeing the same problems. To be honest I was taken by surprise at how bad USPS Priority was internationally despite their promises to the contrary. Because of that we took it away as an option for International users completely and no longer use it for our flat rate shipping either (which we subsidize so that no one has to pay too much). Currently all international packages are going to be sent FedEx which we've used as a foundation for a very long timer with success. FYI: It's about 3am here so I'm going to be heading to bed but will obviously be able to answer more questions in the morning if there are any. James ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
Hello, Here in the Netherlands the banner can be seen e.g. on de.wikipedia.org. I don't know what to think about it, it makes a commercial impression similar to an advert (which it actually is). Kind regards Ziko ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
This is rather silly - we have people complaining about the name Wikimedia being near Wikipedia (oh no!) and complaining about FedEx and airports. The real question is below. *Is it appropriate to risk the very real risk of banner blindness for the shop?* Where do we draw the line? On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nlwrote: Hello, Here in the Netherlands the banner can be seen e.g. on de.wikipedia.org. I don't know what to think about it, it makes a commercial impression similar to an advert (which it actually is). Kind regards Ziko ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
Hi James, Firstly kudos for trying to get an alternate revenue stream going as opposed to donations. I'd be surprised if you could get merchandising to the point where it funds core operations, but it is certainly worth trying. If you are facing high international transport costs then I'd suggest working out which countries the USPS does work well for and only using fedex where post doesn't work, and also trialling the sort of small high value items like cufflinks and memory sticks where transport costs are less important. But if you really want me to get excited about the shop, try stocking flip flops with modified soles. I'm sure I'm not the only person who'd like to walk along the beach leaving a trail of [citation needed] tracks. WSC ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
On 14 January 2013 14:02, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.comwrote: snip But if you really want me to get excited about the shop, try stocking flip flops with modified soles. I'm sure I'm not the only person who'd like to walk along the beach leaving a trail of [citation needed] tracks. WSC I have to saythis is brilliant. Plus it made me laugh out loud. Risker ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: On 14 January 2013 14:02, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.comwrote: snip But if you really want me to get excited about the shop, try stocking flip flops with modified soles. I'm sure I'm not the only person who'd like to walk along the beach leaving a trail of [citation needed] tracks. WSC I have to saythis is brilliant. Plus it made me laugh out loud. A+++ WOULD BUY! -Sage ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
First of all, I'm glad there's a Wikimedia Shop. I don't think it'll make big money, but even if it's only self-sustaining it's totally worth it. I also think that generally we should be happy to try stuff out and use banners to advertise new services. However, I share with Mono the worry that large, colorful and distracting banners are becoming the standard, rather than the exception. I think part of the reason why big banners are used is because they are easier to create: most banners are created by copying existing banners and most existing banners are those huge fundraising banners. We should remember that we have banners in all flavours: * very low key --- https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=stew2011_noms * short small --- https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=WMDE_community_budget * a bit larger --- https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=BrazilMeetups * do not use! --- https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=money_or_die James, was the banner type/size a conscious decision you made? Or did you just choose to go with a standard (big) banner? Regards, Tobias ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Tobias church.of.emacs...@googlemail.comwrote: First of all, I'm glad there's a Wikimedia Shop. I don't think it'll make big money, but even if it's only self-sustaining it's totally worth it. I also think that generally we should be happy to try stuff out and use banners to advertise new services. However, I share with Mono the worry that large, colorful and distracting banners are becoming the standard, rather than the exception. I think part of the reason why big banners are used is because they are easier to create: most banners are created by copying existing banners and most existing banners are those huge fundraising banners. We should remember that we have banners in all flavours: * very low key --- https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/**index.php?title=Special: **NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=**stew2011_nomshttps://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=stew2011_noms * short small --- https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/** index.php?title=Special:**NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=** WMDE_community_budgethttps://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=WMDE_community_budget * a bit larger --- https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/**index.php?title=Special: **NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=**BrazilMeetupshttps://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=BrazilMeetups * do not use! --- https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/**index.php?title=Special:* *NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=**money_or_diehttps://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=money_or_die James, was the banner type/size a conscious decision you made? Or did you just choose to go with a standard (big) banner? Regards, Tobias Thanks Tobias, I generally agree that banners have been overused, they have a big effect but a big presence and we don't want to abuse that. I'm really happy to see things like Echo being worked on in Engineering which will add a much better 'intermediate' choice for messaging which we currently really don't have. The size of the banner was a conscious choice but one I thought about for a fair bit. It's what I would generally consider a 'medium' banner but has clearly migrated itself to being one of the larger types that we use, compared to the past couple years where they tended to be significantly bigger (generally mirroring the size of the fundraising banners at the time which were significantly larger then this). These ones are around 100px which is the size or smaller (depending on the banner) then the fundraising banners this year (before they expanded). For those interested the general idea I was trying to do was to pick a size that was the smallest it could be while still getting the information across that I thought was important. In general that meant I wanted: - Everyone to know that it was a shop banner, I didn't want anyone clicking on it without knowing that's what it was ( or at least as few people as we can). - To know that it was targeted at Editors/Volunteers and that some of the merch was specifically targeted at that. - To know that it was run by the foundation so that people, hopefully, don't think that we've been hacked or that some random shop was doing this. - Be generally readable without effort I wanted to more specifically call out on the banner that the profits went to the Merchandise Giveaway Program that has been a runaway success but, to be honest, I both ran out of space and it's more of a reality for the public push because we've cut out almost all of the margin for the logged in sale. I try to support a bunch of different window sizes and resolutions and in the end it just didn't seem to work well any smaller then this (but didn't have to be any bigger). We still have some issues with the smaller side of windows/resolutions and am still looking at good ways to adapt for that but are getting there. James James Alexander Manager, Merchandise Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 15% off merchandise today at the Wikimedia Shop
When Wikimedia projects volunteers in Brazil were organizing a challenge for the Portuguese Wikipedia [1], there were some ideas of making personalized Wikipedia objects [2] adapter for the local context for the prizes, like flip flops, among others, mainly because of our famous [citation needed] havaianas. [3] [1] http://blog.wikimedia.org/2011/12/21/grand-prix-wikimedia-brazil-racing-towards-a-better-wikipedia/ [2] http://blogs.estadao.com.br/link/positivo-quer-wikipedia-offline-em-computadores/ [3] http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havaianas On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: On 14 January 2013 14:02, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.comwrote: snip But if you really want me to get excited about the shop, try stocking flip flops with modified soles. I'm sure I'm not the only person who'd like to walk along the beach leaving a trail of [citation needed] tracks. WSC I have to saythis is brilliant. Plus it made me laugh out loud. -- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
