Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-14 Thread Denny Vrandecic
No, I think the questions of community representation on the Board and the creation of an independent body able to represent the communities are orthogonal. I do not see anyone suggesting that the Board should not have community representatives. But I see the need for a body representing the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-14 Thread Denny Vrandecic
David, thanks for that perspective. I agree that in theory the Foundation has the power you describe. But it is the same theory that lead to the implementation of Superprotect, and we know how this worked out. I do not think that the use of such a power would be accepted. Or am I wrong? Denny

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-14 Thread Denny Vrandecic
My issue with the current proposal on Meta is that it creates a body which works towards the Board. This is, in my opinion, a fundamental mistake: it perpetuates the idea that the Board is the major governing body of the movement at large. I would very much prefer an independent and strong body

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-13 Thread Milos Rancic
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote: > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter >> My impression is therefore that some sort of a preparatory work is needed >> to avoid these two traps. Ideally, there would be a drafting

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-13 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 2016-01-13 16:32, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote: On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Milos Rancic wrote: I think it is a good idea to have a sort of community council. To give credit, Guy Kawasaki just recently proposed something along these lines in internal discussions. My

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-13 Thread Pharos
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote: > On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Milos Rancic wrote: > > > Denny, thanks for supporting this issue moving on. Before few remarks > > I would respond inline, I want to say that the *draft* of the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-13 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Milos Rancic wrote: > Denny, thanks for supporting this issue moving on. Before few remarks > I would respond inline, I want to say that the *draft* of the idea to > make community assembly have been published by Pharos: > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-13 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote: > > there have been several discussions over the years, and those which I > remember (the first one was Lodewijk's proposal in 2008? 2009?) were either > rejected/not endorsed by the board, or got stalled on meta with

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-12 Thread Lodewijk
Just as a matter of record: While I did contribute comments to the concept of the council, and am in general very much in favour of such council, I also made the comment that I don't think the council in its current shape addresses the real problems at all - because it has one responsibility

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-12 Thread Emmanuel Engelhart
Thank you Milos for pointing here what seems to me the most fundamental flaw of our current organisation. The WMF as organisation was created to bring stability and assure that the daily business is done: keep the platform online, deal with legal cases and keep a positive financial balance. This

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-12 Thread Denny Vrandecic
Milos, I find a lot in your email to agree with. The Board of the Wikimedia Foundation, in my understanding, is not the top governance body of the Wikimedia movement. It sometimes stands in for that, because we don't have anything better - but its composition and its legal obligations suggest

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-12 Thread Milos Rancic
Denny, thanks for supporting this issue moving on. Before few remarks I would respond inline, I want to say that the *draft* of the idea to make community assembly have been published by Pharos: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_Council_Compact I want to give a small background

[Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-09 Thread Milos Rancic
Forking the issue of Board composition. We tend to think of Board as the governing body of the movement, not just WMF. Board members tend to think of themselves as the governing body of WMF, with shiny cool movement supporting it. We tend to discuss of community representation, they tend to