Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-09 Thread Balázs Viczián
Imo the lines were said by a member of a board of a chapter in her official capacity as she was attending a board training paid fully by the global community (unless she paid everything on her own and never got reimbursed for anything) If you keep up with this approach (which will for sure

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-08 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Take one step back. What our aim is, is to share in the sum of all knowledge. Arguably, this is the main and overriding objective of what we do. There are many strategies to get to the point where we share information. From where I stand, with Wikidata we have the opportunity to do better

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-08 Thread Jane Darnell
Gerard, I think you mean There are organisations that want to share CC-0 information with us under a CC-0 license and there are those who want to share CC-0 information under a CC-by license. We are fine with organizations sharing CC-by information under a CC-by license, no? O and I agree

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-08 Thread Tom Morris
Ziko van Dijk wrote: I think that a single quote by a unnamed female Wikimedian, said in public or in private, is a very small basis for any substantiate criticism... I've said fuck the community a fair few times. And fuck the foundation and fuck chapter [name]. Generally, all of them under my

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-08 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, From where I stand ie Wikidata, the license we use is CC-0. When a GLAM wants to share data it has to be CC-0. When it is CC-by or CC-by-sa, we cannot use it. We do not retrieve it from their database we will find the same data from elsewhere where there is no such burden. When people use

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-08 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, One reason is that the license of Wikidata is questioned by members of the Wikidata community. Thanks, GerardM On 8 April 2014 11:27, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote: Hoi, From

[Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Tomasz W. Kozlowski
This week's issue of the English Wikipedia Signpost delivers mildly shocking news about the opinion of a prominent female Wikimedian (...) about the meaning of the movement and the role of the chapters as expressed during the Boards training workshop that took place between March 1-2 in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Fred Bauder
Once the money an organization obtain from grants out matches anything they get from anywhere else they become autonomous. Community support just becomes a box to check. Fred This week's issue of the English Wikipedia Signpost delivers mildly shocking news about the opinion of a prominent

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Hello, I think that a single quote by a unnamed female Wikimedian, said in public or in private, is a very small basis for any substantiate criticism... Kind regards Ziko Am Montag, 7. April 2014 schrieb Fred Bauder : Once the money an organization obtain from grants out matches anything

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Chris Keating
As one of the organisers of the workshop, I feel I ought to chime in here. If I remember correctly, those remarks were made as a passing comment in a very emotional session about the role of movement organisations. I don't believe anyone present took them to heart. Indeed, the vast majority of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Johan Jönsson
2014-04-07 11:46 GMT+02:00 Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nl: Hello, I think that a single quote by a unnamed female Wikimedian, said in public or in private, is a very small basis for any substantiate criticism... Hear, hear. The senitment would be extremely problematic if widespread,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Tomasz W. Kozlowski
Ziko van Dijk wrote I think that a single quote by a unnamed female Wikimedian, said in public or in private, is a very small basis for any substantiate criticism... Thanks to Chris e-mail's, we now know that the comment was made during a public session (though I can't find the relevant

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread David Gerard
On 7 April 2014 11:16, Tomasz W. Kozlowski tom...@twkozlowski.net wrote: I'm used to the secrecy, but I find it deeply disturbing that such a comment could have been made during a public workshop in passing; however, it would fit perfectly in the alleged divisions between some chapters and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Tomasz W. Kozlowski
David Gerard wrote: That translates to OK, I have nothing; however, I'll assert I do anyway. Which of the words from the sentence I wrote require translation for you? The idea that there are divisions between chapters and communities is not a new one; I personally have seen people mention

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread
If that is indeed the case, the comment to fuck the community would fit quite well in the divisions that /some/ people are alleging exist. Tomasz Could whoever is being quoted as saying this please come forward publicly and explain what they meant? If this was anything more

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Steffen Prößdorf
Hi Folks, please do not pick out that single point and overestimate it. I have not mentioned this to dupe anyone, but only to illustrate the conflict of alignment or the objective of the chapters. The opposing opinions are represented by several Wikimedians on both sides, please do not harp on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, What is it that you intend to do. Hang them and, hang them high?? You already know that it was in a very emotional moment ... What is your objective? What do you expect as a result and how will that be in everyone's benefit?? Thanks, Gerard On 7 April 2014 12:16, Tomasz W. Kozlowski

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread
Steffen, the Wikimedia movement expects board members on Wikimedia organizations to be fulfilling their role as representatives of our movement. If you misquoted please explain that this is the case. As at a public workshop that cost the movement a significant amount of our donor's money to pay

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Russavia
I don't believe Tomasz said anything about hanging them and hanging them high. But if there are movementarians who hold this point of view, they should be able to speak up publicly and present that point of view. I, for one, don't disagree with paid editing, so long as it is inline with expected

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Chris Keating
I'd certainly hope not. One of the ground rules for the workshop was that individual contributions were made on a confidential and non-attributable basis. This was exactly because we wanted people to speak freely and not worry about a witch-hunt on an email list if a couple of trolls got hold of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Craig Franklin
I agree with Ziko's point entirely here. The two people who have taken part in this discussion so far who were present at the time have not given anything to indicate it was more than a flippant remark made in a stressful situation. Not that I agree with the sentiment of course, but I'm glad

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread
Chris, rather than again[1] using school-boy politics by defaming people you don't like with personal attacks, please read Tomasz' request: the idea that chapters can fuck the community is absolutely unacceptable and should by rejected by all chapters immediately. Now, show some leadership and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Tomasz W. Kozlowski
Chris Keating wrote: This was exactly because we wanted people to speak freely and not worry about a witch-hunt on an email list if a couple of trolls got hold of some out-of-context quotes. I wish you answered the question instead of smearing me on a public mailing list, Chris. I have no

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Christophe Henner
Ok so the quote taken out of context is actually saying the opposite of the original meaning. The discussion was about what are the goals of the Wikimedia Organizations?. Why do they exist? If we look at what Wikimedia Organizations do, mostly, is investing in free knowledge. If that's their

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Tomasz W. Kozlowski tom...@twkozlowski.netwrote: Chris Keating wrote: This was exactly because we wanted people to speak freely and not worry about a witch-hunt on an email list if a couple of trolls got hold of some out-of-context quotes. I wish you

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Jan-Bart de Vreede
Hi All, I was not present at this meeting, but gather that it was a weekend that was valued by all that attended. As Chris has already indicated, he does not agree with the remark and I think that all of us disagree with the remar (and that is discounting the fact that the whole statement is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Russavia
Chris On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 7:10 PM, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.comwrote: I'd certainly hope not. One of the ground rules for the workshop was that individual contributions were made on a confidential and non-attributable basis. Sounds to me like the Wikimedian version of the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Michael Maggs
I am really saddened by the incessant demands that the community needs public investigations, heads to roll, public apologies and so on. I am also saddened by repeated demands that specific community members state publicly whether they do or do not agree with something allegedly said by a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread
Michael, Wikimedia UK is in the fortunate position that due to my original work with Peter on governance, you and all trustees on your board have signed a trustee code committing them to the Nolan principles. This makes it obvious that if any of the UK Trustees that made public statements of this

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Bence Damokos
I am not sure it would qualify as a public statement rather than a sentence taken and quoted out of context from a closed meeting - in other words, it was not made at a public, accessible location, rather at a closed meeting (with limited places, an entrance fee, etc.). While there are published

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread eLib Project
Hey all! As I have been helping out with wikipedias from time to time, here my 5 cent: @Fae: I do not think that it is within the spirit of the Nolan Principles to break a promise given to participants... there is no trade-offpossiblebetween the principles for the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Béria Lima
*@Fae: I do not think that it is within the spirit of the Nolan Principles to break a promise given to participants...* I'm sorry but quote someone on a on-line journal does not break the promise of secrecy? If they speak believing they would never be quoted, put their words on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Steffen Prößdorf
Dear all, I beg your pardon, that I have quoted this statement in my blog. As mentioned before, I had never intended to condemn anyone or even expose. It served me merely to illustrate the various points of view. The fact that this statement was highly exaggerated and was expressed in a moment

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread
No. You may want to look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Standards_in_Public_Life this does not include keeping things secret just because someone said let's keep this secret. The exact opposite is true, if you are in a trusted public position then you must show leadership for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Russavia
On the other other hand, having any sort of Chatham House Rule in an organisation which prides itself as having openness and transparency as one of its core tenets..think about it people.. Hell, we once had Oliver Keyes spouting on IRC how lowly he thinks of Jimmy Wales (in addition

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread George William Herbert
Way to completely miss the point. Sometimes, the rule of nonattribution is necessary to foster open exchange of views. Nothing anyone has said disputes that. If you disagree, disagree before the meeting, not after. -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com Sent from Kangphone On Apr

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Risker
I think this topic has been overblown. It's not as if anyone on this mailing list has any right or opportunity to pressure a chapter to remove a member of their Board - unless those individuals are members of the specific chapter. And really, if you're an active member of that chapter, you

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Chris Keating
Just to clarify that I don't believe Tomasz, the original poster, was trolling. You, Ashley, have been doing so spectacularly :) On 7 Apr 2014 16:50, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote: No. You may want to look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Standards_in_Public_Life this does not

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Carlos M. Colina
I don't find it deeply disturbing. What, now everybody must love absolutely all wiki[mp]edians? Let her air her thoughts. Or has that also become forbidden? M. El 07/04/2014 12:16 p.m., Tomasz W. Kozlowski escribió: Ziko van Dijk wrote I think that a single quote by a unnamed female

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Tomasz W. Kozlowski
Carlos M. Colina wrote: I don't find it deeply disturbing. What, now everybody must love absolutely all wiki[mp]edians? Yes, what's wrong with fucking the community? Let's go do it, we don't need that useless bunch of moaning robots! Tomasz

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Carlos M. Colina
Look, there is too much drama in telenovelas to add another one. You guys are overreacting over it. M. El 07/04/2014 11:36 p.m., Tomasz W. Kozlowski escribió: Carlos M. Colina wrote: I don't find it deeply disturbing. What, now everybody must love absolutely all wiki[mp]edians? Yes,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Michael Peel
I'm not sure I want to be subscribed to this mailing list any more. :-( What happened to the intelligent conversation that used to take place here? Thanks, Mike On 7 Apr 2014, at 22:38, Carlos M. Colina ma...@wikimedia.org.ve wrote: Look, there is too much drama in telenovelas to add another

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread David Gerard
On 7 April 2014 22:40, Michael Peel em...@mikepeel.net wrote: I'm not sure I want to be subscribed to this mailing list any more. :-( What happened to the intelligent conversation that used to take place here? This year, Fae and Russavia. - d.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Liam Wyatt
On Tuesday, 8 April 2014, Michael Peel em...@mikepeel.net wrote: What happened to the intelligent conversation that used to take place here? There used to be intelligent conversation on wikimedia-l? As I remember it foundation-l was always famous for a seemingly endless supply of controversy

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fuck the community, who cares

2014-04-07 Thread Hubert Laska
With all due respect, Gerard, not the bearer ofthe message, Tomas, is the problem, the problem arises where there are people who can make decisions with far-reaching consequences - and be selected for it - but then assume one for me unacceptable position against that group whose services are