Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-08 Thread Russavia
Lisa,

I posted a link to the WMF Board discussion to this list on 6 December,
it's no problem if you missed it, here it is again:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard#Fundraising

I quote from that:

The [UK Fund for Charities channels gifts to validated non-UK based
charities. We were able to use their service this year for large
Wikimania-related donations. They charge 1% for large gifts, making this an
effective way to receive gift aid. However this is not a great solution for
individual donors: for gifts under £100, they charge up to 20%, consuming
most of the gift aid. –SJ talk  00:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Given the nature of fundraising drives by the WMF (e.g banners) most of the
donations from the UK would surely come from the under £100 category, and
many of these donations would likely be made because of the gift aid that
is no longer able to be collected by WMUK or the WMF.

Hopefully you can give us some clear answers to the issues which have been
raised on both the Board noticeboard and this list; myself and others feel
we are still none the wiser as to the reality.

Cheers

Russavia



On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruw...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hi Russavia-

 I haven't seen the specific comment from SJ that you are referencing, but
 I am guessing that he is referring to the Gift Aid percentage match, which
 used to be 20% and is now 25%.  The 1% I mentioned is the processing fee
 WMF pays to the U.K. Fund for Charities for processing our donations.  We
 most often see large donors asking about Gift Aid and that is why we set up
 the account, but it is not exclusively for large donations.  We refer
 anyone who is wishing to add Gift Aid to their donation to our account with
 the U.K. Fund for Charities.

 When I said in country, I meant anyone wishing to give to the chapter,
 instead of WMF.  Those donations stay with the chapter and do not come back
 to WMF.  We should be able to provide some numbers around this when our
 donor services team comes up for air in January.

 Thank you,
 Lisa

 On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Lisa

 On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruw...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
 
  2)  When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
  process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for
 Charities,
  which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF.
 When
  a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.

 Can you please confirm whether you are talking about large donors, or
 the every day type donors who keep Wikipedia free by clicking on the
 banners. The reason this is needed is that it contradicts what Sj has
 stated on the Board noticeboard, where a figure of 20% was mentioned
 for the nickel and dime donors (which come about by way of the
 banners, etc).

 Can you also give some further information on how many of these in
 country donors the WMF has sent WMUK's way? And what $/£ amount would
 we be talking about here? And are funds from these in country donors
 funnelled back to the WMF?

 Apologies if this is covered elsewhere.

 Russavia



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-08 Thread Lisa Gruwell
Hi Russavia-

Thanks for clarification. There is a lot of room for confusion here and I
sure I have not been as clear when talking about this as I needed to be.
Here are the details: The pricing structure is based on cumulative
donations.  We paid 20% on the first £100 in donations (which was covered
with our very first donation), 10% on the next £9899, and 1% on every
donation after that – which is the fee assessed on any donation made during
this December campaign that requests Gift Aid.  We will share the totals
after we receive our quarterly statement toward the end of February.  Sorry
for the confusion.

Thank you,
Lisa

On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Lisa,

 I posted a link to the WMF Board discussion to this list on 6 December,
 it's no problem if you missed it, here it is again:


 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard#Fundraising

 I quote from that:

 The [UK Fund for Charities channels gifts to validated non-UK based
 charities. We were able to use their service this year for large
 Wikimania-related donations. They charge 1% for large gifts, making this an
 effective way to receive gift aid. However this is not a great solution for
 individual donors: for gifts under £100, they charge up to 20%, consuming
 most of the gift aid. –SJ talk  00:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

 Given the nature of fundraising drives by the WMF (e.g banners) most of
 the donations from the UK would surely come from the under £100 category,
 and many of these donations would likely be made because of the gift aid
 that is no longer able to be collected by WMUK or the WMF.

 Hopefully you can give us some clear answers to the issues which have been
 raised on both the Board noticeboard and this list; myself and others feel
 we are still none the wiser as to the reality.

 Cheers

 Russavia



 On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruw...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:

 Hi Russavia-

 I haven't seen the specific comment from SJ that you are referencing, but
 I am guessing that he is referring to the Gift Aid percentage match, which
 used to be 20% and is now 25%.  The 1% I mentioned is the processing fee
 WMF pays to the U.K. Fund for Charities for processing our donations.  We
 most often see large donors asking about Gift Aid and that is why we set up
 the account, but it is not exclusively for large donations.  We refer
 anyone who is wishing to add Gift Aid to their donation to our account with
 the U.K. Fund for Charities.

 When I said in country, I meant anyone wishing to give to the chapter,
 instead of WMF.  Those donations stay with the chapter and do not come back
 to WMF.  We should be able to provide some numbers around this when our
 donor services team comes up for air in January.

 Thank you,
 Lisa

 On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Lisa

 On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruw...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
 
  2)  When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
  process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for
 Charities,
  which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF.
 When
  a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.

 Can you please confirm whether you are talking about large donors, or
 the every day type donors who keep Wikipedia free by clicking on the
 banners. The reason this is needed is that it contradicts what Sj has
 stated on the Board noticeboard, where a figure of 20% was mentioned
 for the nickel and dime donors (which come about by way of the
 banners, etc).

 Can you also give some further information on how many of these in
 country donors the WMF has sent WMUK's way? And what $/£ amount would
 we be talking about here? And are funds from these in country donors
 funnelled back to the WMF?

 Apologies if this is covered elsewhere.

 Russavia




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-08 Thread Russavia
Lisa,

Thanks for your reply and clarification.

When one clicks on the fundraising banner from the UK, they get taken
to this site.[1] As you can see there is no prominent link about gift
aid on that page. There is, however, a link at the bottom under Tax
deductibility information which takes you here.[2]

It will certainly be interesting to see the figures in February which
you said you'd provide, so that we can see for ourselves just how the
figures from the UK compare to previous years when the gift aid was
obviously more prominent (from what I am lead to understand).

Another interesting thing I noticed. When you go the landing page for
Australia,[3] I see the option there to pay via BPay.[4] And sure
enough, the Wikimedia Foundation has a BPay biller code.[5] Most
Australians would be familiar with BPay, so it's a great feature to
have. But, upon looking at their FAQs[6] it states:

Can an overseas business become a BPAY biller?

Unfortunately, if your business is based overseas you can’t become a
BPAY biller. BPAY is only available for businesses in Australia.

How exactly is the WMF utilising BPay here in Australia? It's not
registered in Australia.[7]

More info on that would be awesome. Sorry if it's been answered before.

Cheers,

Russavia

[1] 
https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:FundraiserLandingPagecountry=GBuselang=enutm_medium=sidebarutm_source=donateutm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org
[2] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Tax_Deductibility/en#United_Kingdom
[3] 
https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:FundraiserLandingPagecountry=AUuselang=enutm_medium=sidebarutm_source=donateutm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org
[4] http://www.bpay.com.au/
[5] 
http://www.bpay.com.au/Personal/Find-Biller-Codes-or-Financial-Institutions.aspx?find=373456
[6] 
http://www.bpay.com.au/Business/Small-Medium-Business/Help/BPAY-Services-FAQs.aspx#faq-question-790
[7] http://abr.business.gov.au/SearchByNameAll.aspx?SearchText=wikimedia


On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:08 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruw...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hi Russavia-

 Thanks for clarification. There is a lot of room for confusion here and I 
 sure I have not been as clear when talking about this as I needed to be.  
 Here are the details: The pricing structure is based on cumulative donations. 
  We paid 20% on the first £100 in donations (which was covered with our very 
 first donation), 10% on the next £9899, and 1% on every donation after that – 
 which is the fee assessed on any donation made during this December campaign 
 that requests Gift Aid.  We will share the totals after we receive our 
 quarterly statement toward the end of February.  Sorry for the confusion.

 Thank you,
 Lisa

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-08 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 4 December 2014 at 21:10, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:

 How much money do we expect to raise (or did we last year), from the
 UK? How much of the money raised from the UK will attract Gift
 Aid[*] tax releif?

Unless I've missed it these questions have not yet been answered.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-08 Thread Charles Gregory
Russavia (and everyone),

I've asked about, and from I can find the WMF has contracted out collection
of BPay payments to a third party merchant (an Australian business).  This
has been the case since the first fundraiser that WMAU was not involved in
payment processing (2011 I think).

Regards,

Charles / User:Chuq
Wikimedia Australia


On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Lisa,

 Thanks for your reply and clarification.

 When one clicks on the fundraising banner from the UK, they get taken
 to this site.[1] As you can see there is no prominent link about gift
 aid on that page. There is, however, a link at the bottom under Tax
 deductibility information which takes you here.[2]

 It will certainly be interesting to see the figures in February which
 you said you'd provide, so that we can see for ourselves just how the
 figures from the UK compare to previous years when the gift aid was
 obviously more prominent (from what I am lead to understand).

 Another interesting thing I noticed. When you go the landing page for
 Australia,[3] I see the option there to pay via BPay.[4] And sure
 enough, the Wikimedia Foundation has a BPay biller code.[5] Most
 Australians would be familiar with BPay, so it's a great feature to
 have. But, upon looking at their FAQs[6] it states:

 Can an overseas business become a BPAY biller?

 Unfortunately, if your business is based overseas you can’t become a
 BPAY biller. BPAY is only available for businesses in Australia.

 How exactly is the WMF utilising BPay here in Australia? It's not
 registered in Australia.[7]

 More info on that would be awesome. Sorry if it's been answered before.

 Cheers,

 Russavia

 [1]
 https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:FundraiserLandingPagecountry=GBuselang=enutm_medium=sidebarutm_source=donateutm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org
 [2]
 https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Tax_Deductibility/en#United_Kingdom
 [3]
 https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:FundraiserLandingPagecountry=AUuselang=enutm_medium=sidebarutm_source=donateutm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org
 [4] http://www.bpay.com.au/
 [5]
 http://www.bpay.com.au/Personal/Find-Biller-Codes-or-Financial-Institutions.aspx?find=373456
 [6]
 http://www.bpay.com.au/Business/Small-Medium-Business/Help/BPAY-Services-FAQs.aspx#faq-question-790
 [7] http://abr.business.gov.au/SearchByNameAll.aspx?SearchText=wikimedia


 On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:08 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruw...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
 
  Hi Russavia-
 
  Thanks for clarification. There is a lot of room for confusion here and
 I sure I have not been as clear when talking about this as I needed to be.
 Here are the details: The pricing structure is based on cumulative
 donations.  We paid 20% on the first £100 in donations (which was covered
 with our very first donation), 10% on the next £9899, and 1% on every
 donation after that – which is the fee assessed on any donation made during
 this December campaign that requests Gift Aid.  We will share the totals
 after we receive our quarterly statement toward the end of February.  Sorry
 for the confusion.
 
  Thank you,
  Lisa

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-07 Thread Russavia
Lisa

On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruw...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 2)  When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
 process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for Charities,
 which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF.  When
 a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.

Can you please confirm whether you are talking about large donors, or
the every day type donors who keep Wikipedia free by clicking on the
banners. The reason this is needed is that it contradicts what Sj has
stated on the Board noticeboard, where a figure of 20% was mentioned
for the nickel and dime donors (which come about by way of the
banners, etc).

Can you also give some further information on how many of these in
country donors the WMF has sent WMUK's way? And what $/£ amount would
we be talking about here? And are funds from these in country donors
funnelled back to the WMF?

Apologies if this is covered elsewhere.

Russavia

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-07 Thread Lisa Gruwell
Hi Russavia-

I haven't seen the specific comment from SJ that you are referencing, but I
am guessing that he is referring to the Gift Aid percentage match, which
used to be 20% and is now 25%.  The 1% I mentioned is the processing fee
WMF pays to the U.K. Fund for Charities for processing our donations.  We
most often see large donors asking about Gift Aid and that is why we set up
the account, but it is not exclusively for large donations.  We refer
anyone who is wishing to add Gift Aid to their donation to our account with
the U.K. Fund for Charities.

When I said in country, I meant anyone wishing to give to the chapter,
instead of WMF.  Those donations stay with the chapter and do not come back
to WMF.  We should be able to provide some numbers around this when our
donor services team comes up for air in January.

Thank you,
Lisa

On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Lisa

 On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruw...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
 
  2)  When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
  process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for
 Charities,
  which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF.
 When
  a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.

 Can you please confirm whether you are talking about large donors, or
 the every day type donors who keep Wikipedia free by clicking on the
 banners. The reason this is needed is that it contradicts what Sj has
 stated on the Board noticeboard, where a figure of 20% was mentioned
 for the nickel and dime donors (which come about by way of the
 banners, etc).

 Can you also give some further information on how many of these in
 country donors the WMF has sent WMUK's way? And what $/£ amount would
 we be talking about here? And are funds from these in country donors
 funnelled back to the WMF?

 Apologies if this is covered elsewhere.

 Russavia

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
A similar possibility is in existence in the Netherlands... National
charities can easily get such a status. It is possible for international
organisations but it is more difficult..

In order to optimise fundraisers it is extremely relevant that we optimise
it for our donors. That makes it very much in need of local efforts.

As it is we lose 50% of the giftst of our donors in the Netherlands to the
taxman.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 4 December 2014 at 22:10, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:

 I've split this from a more general thread, for convenience...


 On 3 December 2014 at 01:16, Megan Hernandez mhernan...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:

  Starting today, banners are being shown to 100% of anonymous readers on
  English Wikipedia in the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

 How much money do we expect to raise (or did we last year), from the
 UK? How much of the money raised from the UK will attract Gift
 Aid[*] tax releif?


 [* Gift AId is a UK scheme where the government gives, to a charity,
 tax paid by a  donor. For every £80 such a donor gives, the charty
 would receive £100]

 --
 Andy Mabbett
 @pigsonthewing
 http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Russavia
All

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:10 AM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:

 How much money do we expect to raise (or did we last year), from the
 UK? How much of the money raised from the UK will attract Gift
 Aid[*] tax releif?

I've seen figures of $500,000 being mentioned in relation to lost gift
aid. And also consider that with gift aid being taken out of the
equation this will likely result in a drop in donations.

It's not chump change that has been lost, so there has to be some
serious issues within WMUK that need fixing. Let's hope that chapter
can get its act together in the future.

Russavia

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
It is NOT the chapter that has to change its ways.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 5 December 2014 at 11:27, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com wrote:

 All

 On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:10 AM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk
 wrote:

  How much money do we expect to raise (or did we last year), from the
  UK? How much of the money raised from the UK will attract Gift
  Aid[*] tax releif?

 I've seen figures of $500,000 being mentioned in relation to lost gift
 aid. And also consider that with gift aid being taken out of the
 equation this will likely result in a drop in donations.

 It's not chump change that has been lost, so there has to be some
 serious issues within WMUK that need fixing. Let's hope that chapter
 can get its act together in the future.

 Russavia

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread
On 5 December 2014 at 10:50, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hoi,
 It is NOT the chapter that has to change its ways.
 Thanks,
   GerardM

Actually, under Sue Gardner, the offer was that if the chapter did
change its ways, it would become a payment processor again. As a
trustee at that time, who was sent all the correspondence, this was
exactly what was put in writing.

Presumably the WMF still have serious concerns about WMUK, otherwise
this would have happened in 2014. Perhaps a current trustee could
confirm the situation openly and transparently?

Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread mathias . damour
- Mail original -

De: Fæ fae...@gmail.com 

 Actually, under Sue Gardner, the offer was that if the chapter did 
 change its ways, it would become a payment processor again. As a 
 trustee at that time, who was sent all the correspondence, this was 
 exactly what was put in writing. 

And did you believe her ? 

Mathias 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread
On 5 December 2014 at 14:12,  mathias.dam...@laposte.net wrote:
 - Mail original -

 De: Fæ fae...@gmail.com

 Actually, under Sue Gardner, the offer was that if the chapter did
 change its ways, it would become a payment processor again. As a
 trustee at that time, who was sent all the correspondence, this was
 exactly what was put in writing.

 And did you believe her ?

 Mathias

No, I and another trustee made that exceedingly clear.

Though I was a trustee, I was excluded by the then Chairman from the
vote on how we proceeded. It was a truly nasty way to conduct the
matter. A procedurally and legally recorded vote of the board was
never held, something that I strongly complained about at the time.
This was never corrected nor was there ever a personal apology. I
would hope that the current board behaves differently with trustees
who might oppose the party line, though as that same trustee is
still on the board, I guess meaningful governance reform has yet to
happen. Every indication shows that politics and PR are still
considered more important than public transparency and honesty to the
community.

I have raised this before, but I think it's too non-positive a
non-success to get anywhere with the way the charity that I helped
to create works today. My reward for being concerned about the
organization, is that I am no longer allowed to be a voting member of
the UK charity.

Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Michael Maggs
I regret that Fae has thought it necessary to bring his personal 
grievance against the UK chapter and one specific individual over to the 
Wikimedia-l mailing list now that he is unable to make such comments on 
the Wikimedia-UK list or the WMUK website.   I would hope that the 
moderators will consider whether providing a platform for this type of 
attack is conducive to the health of the Wikimedia movement.


Best regards

Michael


Michael Maggs
Chair, Wikimedia UK

Fæ mailto:fae...@gmail.com
5 December 2014 14:30

No, I and another trustee made that exceedingly clear.

Though I was a trustee, I was excluded by the then Chairman from the
vote on how we proceeded. It was a truly nasty way to conduct the
matter. A procedurally and legally recorded vote of the board was
never held, something that I strongly complained about at the time.
This was never corrected nor was there ever a personal apology. I
would hope that the current board behaves differently with trustees
who might oppose the party line, though as that same trustee is
still on the board, I guess meaningful governance reform has yet to
happen. Every indication shows that politics and PR are still
considered more important than public transparency and honesty to the
community.

I have raised this before, but I think it's too non-positive a
non-success to get anywhere with the way the charity that I helped
to create works today. My reward for being concerned about the
organization, is that I am no longer allowed to be a voting member of
the UK charity.

Fae
Fæ mailto:fae...@gmail.com
5 December 2014 10:56

Actually, under Sue Gardner, the offer was that if the chapter did
change its ways, it would become a payment processor again. As a
trustee at that time, who was sent all the correspondence, this was
exactly what was put in writing.

Presumably the WMF still have serious concerns about WMUK, otherwise
this would have happened in 2014. Perhaps a current trustee could
confirm the situation openly and transparently?

Fae



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Russavia
Michael,

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Michael Maggs mich...@maggs.name wrote:

 I regret that Fae has thought it necessary to bring his personal grievance
 against the UK chapter and one specific individual over to the Wikimedia-l
 mailing list now that he is unable to make such comments on the
 Wikimedia-UK list or the WMUK website.   I would hope that the moderators
 will consider whether providing a platform for this type of attack is
 conducive to the health of the Wikimedia movement.

 Best regards

 Michael


I don't really see any sort of attack in what Fae has written; but is
posting his opinion and information gained from his own time as trustee of
Wikimedia UK. If you want to refute what he has to say, then do so. But
what you are essentially asking for is an echo chamber.

A question has been raised on this list as it relates to WMUK, so all and
sundry should be able to provide information relating to it.

Perhaps, you as Chairman of WMUK, could explain to us all publicly why the
WMF is willing to forego approx $500,000 in gift aid and has pulled WMUK's
ability to accept donations, and therefore still be eligible for that gift
aid. Fae was essentially blamed, at least in the public eye, for all the
failings of WMUK in the past, however the decision by the WMF is only a
recent one, so there are still obvious failings at WMUK, and it can't be
attributed to Fae. It is absolutely right that questions be asked; but your
solution is to ban those who are asking the questions. That is not on.

I'd appreciate some sort of response from you Michael that does include ad
hominem attacks. Refer to
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg
for where we should be (the top) and where we're at.

Regards,

Russavia
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Russavia
Sorry, that of course should have read:

I'd appreciate some sort of response from you Michael that does NOT
include ad hominem attacks.

I guess I've been a Wikimedian so long that ad hominem attacks are often
the norm, rather than the exception. Or it could have just been a
brainfart. I'll let the reader decide.

Russavia

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Michael,

 On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Michael Maggs mich...@maggs.name wrote:

 I regret that Fae has thought it necessary to bring his personal
 grievance against the UK chapter and one specific individual over to the
 Wikimedia-l mailing list now that he is unable to make such comments on the
 Wikimedia-UK list or the WMUK website.   I would hope that the moderators
 will consider whether providing a platform for this type of attack is
 conducive to the health of the Wikimedia movement.

 Best regards

 Michael


 I don't really see any sort of attack in what Fae has written; but is
 posting his opinion and information gained from his own time as trustee of
 Wikimedia UK. If you want to refute what he has to say, then do so. But
 what you are essentially asking for is an echo chamber.

 A question has been raised on this list as it relates to WMUK, so all and
 sundry should be able to provide information relating to it.

 Perhaps, you as Chairman of WMUK, could explain to us all publicly why the
 WMF is willing to forego approx $500,000 in gift aid and has pulled WMUK's
 ability to accept donations, and therefore still be eligible for that gift
 aid. Fae was essentially blamed, at least in the public eye, for all the
 failings of WMUK in the past, however the decision by the WMF is only a
 recent one, so there are still obvious failings at WMUK, and it can't be
 attributed to Fae. It is absolutely right that questions be asked; but your
 solution is to ban those who are asking the questions. That is not on.

 I'd appreciate some sort of response from you Michael that does include ad
 hominem attacks. Refer to
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg
 for where we should be (the top) and where we're at.

 Regards,

 Russavia

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Nick Birse
I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become
embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the
chapter).

I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift Aid is
out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this be
dealt with at Wikimania 2014.

Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new
rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as to be
eligible to collect Gift Aid ?

If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money in the
UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid this
year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK (via
WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000 available
to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.

The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising in the
UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or
have a local office (see
http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/
). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does this
through the UK based Greenpeace Environmental Trust which is a registered
charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are then
passed to Greenpeace International in Amsterdam, and that funds things
like the Rainbow Warrior.

I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of Gift
Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting
Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely
unforgivable.

Kind Regards,
Nick
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Michael Maggs

Hi Nick

Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from 
allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, 
preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available 
local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters, 
including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, 
but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be 
permitted.  WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here: 
https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.


We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's 
remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as 
recommended by the Foundation and the FDC -  to seek charitable funds 
directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.


Best regards

Michael


Michael Maggs
Chair, Wikimedia UK


Nick Birse mailto:w...@nbir.se
5 December 2014 17:28
I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become
embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the
chapter).

I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift 
Aid is

out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this be
dealt with at Wikimania 2014.

Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new
rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as 
to be

eligible to collect Gift Aid ?

If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money 
in the

UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid this
year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK (via
WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000 available
to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.

The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising 
in the

UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or
have a local office (see
http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/
). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does this
through the UK based Greenpeace Environmental Trust which is a 
registered

charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are then
passed to Greenpeace International in Amsterdam, and that funds things
like the Rainbow Warrior.

I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of 
Gift

Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting
Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely
unforgivable.

Kind Regards,
Nick
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Russavia
Michael

On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Michael Maggs mich...@maggs.name wrote:

 Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
 allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, preferring
 to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax
 reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters, including the UK,
 would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous ED,
 Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted.  WMUK regretted
 that decision, and we responded to it here:
 https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.

The question was raised by Nick over at the WMF Board noticeboard.[1]
There Sj states:

The [UK Fund for Charities channels gifts to validated non-UK based
charities. We were able to use their service this year for large
Wikimania-related donations. They charge 1% for large gifts, making
this an effective way to receive gift aid. However this is not a great
solution for individual donors: for gifts under £100, they charge up
to 20%, consuming most of the gift aid.

$500,000 is quite a lot of coin to be missing out on; and the WMF is
obviously looking at ways to get this gift aid (whilst bypassing
WMUK), just without registering themselves in the UK, which would see
it having to comply with European directives on numerous issues.

There's more to this story me thinks ;)

Russavia

[1] 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard#Fundraising

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Chris Keating
Also, if anyone's interested in the latest news on Wikimedia UK's
governance, do have a look at our most recent governance audit - further
info here:

https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/11/final-report-on-wikimedia-uk-governance-released/

Some quotes include;

*“The charity has very largely addressed the 50 recommendations found
within the original review. WMUK has developed very quickly, and the
charity has clearly put a lot of effort into ensuring that its governance
now meets best practice expectations. It has a cohesive, skilled and
experienced board in place. They have a clear understanding of the
charity’s vision and mission”.*

*“For the stage that Wikimedia is in its life cycle it compares well with
similar UK charities. Its transparency about its procedures is a beacon of
best practice, and its conflicts of interest procedures are robust and
well-tested”.*

Regards,

Chris


On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Michael Maggs mich...@maggs.name wrote:

 Hi Nick

 Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
 allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser,
 preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available
 local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters, including
 the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the
 previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted.
 WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here:
 https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.

 We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's
 remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as
 recommended by the Foundation and the FDC -  to seek charitable funds
 directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.

 Best regards

 Michael

 
 Michael Maggs
 Chair, Wikimedia UK

  Nick Birse mailto:w...@nbir.se
 5 December 2014 17:28

 I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become
 embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the
 chapter).

 I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift Aid
 is
 out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this be
 dealt with at Wikimania 2014.

 Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new
 rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as to
 be
 eligible to collect Gift Aid ?

 If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money in
 the
 UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid this
 year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK (via
 WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000 available
 to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.

 The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising in
 the
 UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or
 have a local office (see
 http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/
 about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/
 ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does this
 through the UK based Greenpeace Environmental Trust which is a
 registered
 charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are then
 passed to Greenpeace International in Amsterdam, and that funds things
 like the Rainbow Warrior.

 I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of
 Gift
 Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting
 Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely
 unforgivable.

 Kind Regards,
 Nick
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Nathan
Wasn't there also an issue with WMUK processing payments, in that they
couldn't pass 100% of the donations on to the WMF but had to retain some or
most of the funds in order to remain independent under British law? That
seems like a good reason why the WMF might not want WMUK to process
payments, and the byzantine ruleset they'd have to abide by to have a
regime of chapter-based processing is a very good reason to avoid that
model in general.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Lisa Gruwell
You can find information on the tax deductibility of donations to WMF here:

https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Tax_Deductibility/en#.C2.A0Netherlands

Quickly, to address a few points that have been raised:

1) Yes, donations to WMF are tax deductible in the Netherlands

2)  When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for Charities,
which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF.  When
a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.

Thank you,
Lisa Gruwell

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Also, if anyone's interested in the latest news on Wikimedia UK's
 governance, do have a look at our most recent governance audit - further
 info here:


 https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/11/final-report-on-wikimedia-uk-governance-released/

 Some quotes include;

 *“The charity has very largely addressed the 50 recommendations found
 within the original review. WMUK has developed very quickly, and the
 charity has clearly put a lot of effort into ensuring that its governance
 now meets best practice expectations. It has a cohesive, skilled and
 experienced board in place. They have a clear understanding of the
 charity’s vision and mission”.*

 *“For the stage that Wikimedia is in its life cycle it compares well with
 similar UK charities. Its transparency about its procedures is a beacon of
 best practice, and its conflicts of interest procedures are robust and
 well-tested”.*

 Regards,

 Chris


 On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Michael Maggs mich...@maggs.name wrote:

  Hi Nick
 
  Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
  allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser,
  preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available
  local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters, including
  the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the
  previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted.
  WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here:
  https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
 
  We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's
  remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as
  recommended by the Foundation and the FDC -  to seek charitable funds
  directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.
 
  Best regards
 
  Michael
 
  
  Michael Maggs
  Chair, Wikimedia UK
 
   Nick Birse mailto:w...@nbir.se
  5 December 2014 17:28
 
  I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become
  embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the
  chapter).
 
  I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift Aid
  is
  out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this
 be
  dealt with at Wikimania 2014.
 
  Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new
  rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as to
  be
  eligible to collect Gift Aid ?
 
  If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money in
  the
  UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid
 this
  year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK
 (via
  WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000
 available
  to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.
 
  The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising in
  the
  UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or
  have a local office (see
  http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/
  about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/
  ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does
 this
  through the UK based Greenpeace Environmental Trust which is a
  registered
  charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are
 then
  passed to Greenpeace International in Amsterdam, and that funds things
  like the Rainbow Warrior.
 
  I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of
  Gift
  Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting
  Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely
  unforgivable.
 
  Kind Regards,
  Nick
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Risker
On 5 December 2014 at 13:25, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Michael

 On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Michael Maggs mich...@maggs.name wrote:

  Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
  allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser,
 preferring
  to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax
  reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters, including the UK,
  would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous
 ED,
  Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted.  WMUK regretted
  that decision, and we responded to it here:
  https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.

 The question was raised by Nick over at the WMF Board noticeboard.[1]
 There Sj states:

 The [UK Fund for Charities channels gifts to validated non-UK based
 charities. We were able to use their service this year for large
 Wikimania-related donations. They charge 1% for large gifts, making
 this an effective way to receive gift aid. However this is not a great
 solution for individual donors: for gifts under £100, they charge up
 to 20%, consuming most of the gift aid.

 $500,000 is quite a lot of coin to be missing out on; and the WMF is
 obviously looking at ways to get this gift aid (whilst bypassing
 WMUK), just without registering themselves in the UK, which would see
 it having to comply with European directives on numerous issues.

 There's more to this story me thinks ;)

 Russavia



Before getting all excited about losing $500,000first we need to
consider some facts.

Fact #1 - in every country that I'm aware of (and I've been asking around a
bit recently), donors have the *option* of adding Gift Aid or whatever
local equivalent is available, but it is not an automatic option.
Therefore, there might be the *potential* to raise significant dollars
through this process, but it is not a guaranteed amount of money or a
guaranteed percentage.

Offsetting this is the cost of actually collecting the donations.  This
is a very significant factor, and for many chapters the cost of operating
the fundraiser locally with a remittance to the WMF is prohibitively
expensive.  They have to worry about hosting costs, staffing, banking,
lawyers, accountants, issuance of receipts, auditors, legislated
requirements as to how the donations are usedand that's just what I'm
aware of off the top of my head.

Unless there is excellent evidence that the additional donation outweighs
the cost of collecting it *for the movement as a whole, not just the
chapter* - and there was significant work done on this when the opportunity
for chapters to do this before was withdrawn - then it is not in the best
interests of the movement to operate this way.

We also have to keep in mind that there are many chapters that simply have
no opportunity to participate in this kind of fundraising (e.g., those in
countries with no similar government scheme) and there is absolutely no
opportunity for thematic organizations or user groups to participate in
this type of fundraising.

So yes, it is worth investigating, and Lisa Gruwell has already answered
some locally-specific issues. But there were a lot of reasons why this
option was heavily restricted in the past, and it wasn't just because
certain chapters were having governance issues.


Risker/Anne
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Chris Keating
Hi Nathan,

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wasn't there also an issue with WMUK processing payments, in that they
 couldn't pass 100% of the donations on to the WMF but had to retain some or
 most of the funds in order to remain independent under British law?


We looked at this in some detail in 2011 when the original big discussion
about fundraising happened.

The short answer is no; Wikimedia UK would be able to send 99%+ of its
revenue to the Wikimedia Foundation as an unrestricted grant with no
regulatory problems.

The answer to this question does of course differ for different chapters.

Chris
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
For what it is worth ...
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_CJE-09-5_en.htm
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 5 December 2014 at 19:56, Lisa Gruwell lgruw...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 You can find information on the tax deductibility of donations to WMF here:

 https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Tax_Deductibility/en#.C2.A0Netherlands

 Quickly, to address a few points that have been raised:

 1) Yes, donations to WMF are tax deductible in the Netherlands

 2)  When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
 process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for Charities,
 which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF.  When
 a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.

 Thank you,
 Lisa Gruwell

 On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com
 
 wrote:

  Also, if anyone's interested in the latest news on Wikimedia UK's
  governance, do have a look at our most recent governance audit - further
  info here:
 
 
 
 https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/11/final-report-on-wikimedia-uk-governance-released/
 
  Some quotes include;
 
  *“The charity has very largely addressed the 50 recommendations found
  within the original review. WMUK has developed very quickly, and the
  charity has clearly put a lot of effort into ensuring that its governance
  now meets best practice expectations. It has a cohesive, skilled and
  experienced board in place. They have a clear understanding of the
  charity’s vision and mission”.*
 
  *“For the stage that Wikimedia is in its life cycle it compares well with
  similar UK charities. Its transparency about its procedures is a beacon
 of
  best practice, and its conflicts of interest procedures are robust and
  well-tested”.*
 
  Regards,
 
  Chris
 
 
  On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Michael Maggs mich...@maggs.name
 wrote:
 
   Hi Nick
  
   Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from
   allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser,
   preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available
   local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK).  Many chapters,
 including
   the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the
   previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted.
   WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here:
   https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
  
   We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's
   remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as
   recommended by the Foundation and the FDC -  to seek charitable funds
   directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.
  
   Best regards
  
   Michael
  
   
   Michael Maggs
   Chair, Wikimedia UK
  
Nick Birse mailto:w...@nbir.se
   5 December 2014 17:28
  
   I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become
   embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined
 the
   chapter).
  
   I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift
 Aid
   is
   out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking
 this
  be
   dealt with at Wikimania 2014.
  
   Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new
   rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as
 to
   be
   eligible to collect Gift Aid ?
  
   If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money
 in
   the
   UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid
  this
   year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK
  (via
   WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000
  available
   to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.
  
   The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising
 in
   the
   UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner,
 or
   have a local office (see
   http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/
   about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/
   ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does
  this
   through the UK based Greenpeace Environmental Trust which is a
   registered
   charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are
  then
   passed to Greenpeace International in Amsterdam, and that funds
 things
   like the Rainbow Warrior.
  
   I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of
   Gift
   Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not
 collecting
   Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely
   unforgivable.
  
   Kind Regards,
   Nick
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Mathias Damour

Le 05/12/2014 19:22, Michael Maggs a écrit :

Hi Nick

Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from 
allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, 
preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the 
available local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK). Many 
chapters, including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the 
fundraiser, but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that 
would not be permitted.  WMUK regretted that decision, and we 
responded to it here: 
https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.


I wonder if Sue Gardner has worked more on anything than centralizing 
the Wikimedia movement by various means and curtailing chapter growth 
and capacity.
I also wonder if she was mandated to do that by the board or if she just 
implemented her own views.

From this message of Ting Chen, it seems that it was her own will :-(

https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2014-June/072405.html
As some of you may remember that the years 2010 to 2012 [when he was 
chair of the Wikimedia Foundation] were especially difficult years in 
relationship between the Foundation and the chapters. The Foundation 
experimented a few approaches and changed again and again its direction. 
And the discussion about how to distribute the funds raised on our 
projects had repeatedly kindled, sometimes very violent confrontations. 
On one of the board meetings earlier of 2011 Sue said to the board that 
she never considered this confrontation as a question of who wins. She 
wanted a good and sound solution for the problems that are out there. 
After the Haifa Wikimania the discussion became even hotter and 
sometimes it really felt insulting. I always considered myself as a 
person who is very ballanced and who can keep his tempel, but at that 
point I must say that I was very unnerved by the dispute. We had our 
board meeting in San Francisco and after that Sue asked me to stay for a 
few days to give a speech on the All Hands Meeting of the staff. So one 
evening we went out for a dinner together and naturally, the discussion 
came back to the fund raising and fund dissemination topic. And I asked 
Sue with a sigh:Do you still think that it is not about who wins? And 
she said:Yes, of cause not. 


Ting Chen seems to have believed her :-(

--
Mathias Damour
F-74000 Annecy

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-05 Thread Nathan
On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hoi,
 For what it is worth ...
 http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_CJE-09-5_en.htm
 Thanks,
   GerardM


For the benefit of others... The press release, from 2009, describes a
preliminary ruling that states of the European Union cannot restrict tax
benefits for donations to beneficiaries (recipients) located in that state
alone, and must also permit the benefits for beneficiaries located in other
states of the EU.
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[Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK

2014-12-04 Thread Andy Mabbett
I've split this from a more general thread, for convenience...


On 3 December 2014 at 01:16, Megan Hernandez mhernan...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Starting today, banners are being shown to 100% of anonymous readers on
 English Wikipedia in the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

How much money do we expect to raise (or did we last year), from the
UK? How much of the money raised from the UK will attract Gift
Aid[*] tax releif?


[* Gift AId is a UK scheme where the government gives, to a charity,
tax paid by a  donor. For every £80 such a donor gives, the charty
would receive £100]

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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