Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-04-17 Thread Anna Stillwell
Hello Rogol, I said I would get back to you on three questions (below). Plus, I’d like to return to a point you made about "upstream" collaboration and add an update on Maps and Interactive. - What do we philosophically believe: to roadmap or not to roadmap? - What do we currently have in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-03-24 Thread Anna Stillwell
Rogol, Hello. I am close to having some clarity to share. Might I extend to mid April? /a On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Anna Stillwell wrote: > > > On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Rogol Domedonfors > wrote: > >> Anna, >> >> >> > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-12 Thread Anna Stillwell
On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Rogol Domedonfors wrote: > Anna, > > > > > > Generally, I am thinking about community service training across the > > > > > organization. I would love your help with that. I can do little about > > the > > > > past. I can address the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-12 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Anna, > > > Generally, I am thinking about community service training across the > > > organization. I would love your help with that. I can do little about > the > > > past. I can address the future. To properly address the future, ad hoc > > and > > > particular solution sets won't suffice.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-12 Thread Anna Stillwell
Hello Rogol, On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 2:04 AM, Rogol Domedonfors wrote: > Anna, > > > > Sometimes I wonder if hope isn’t at the base of it all. Perhaps hope is > > necessary but certainly not sufficient for it all to transpire. Hope is > not > > a strategy. But maybe it's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-11 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > > Sent: Saturday, 11 February 2017 2:55 PM > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work > > on pause > &

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-11 Thread James Salsman
; Sent: Saturday, 11 February 2017 2:55 PM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work > on pause > > Hoi, > Rogol... the past... whose past? When you argue that we have to learn from > the past, it is go

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-11 Thread Peter Southwood
...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: Saturday, 11 February 2017 2:55 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause Hoi, Rogol... the past... whose past? When you argue that we have to learn from the past, it is good

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-11 Thread Peter Southwood
Good answer. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Anna Stillwell Sent: Saturday, 11 February 2017 3:34 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-11 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Rogol... the past... whose past? When you argue that we have to learn from the past, it is good to accept current polities of a project as an argument but such an argument has to convince us all. I have experience and I dispair. I find that policies that are external to me should be accepted

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-11 Thread Jane Darnell
To understand Hoi you first need to get yourself some stroopwafels to go with your coffee On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Anna Stillwell wrote: > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 11:52 PM, Gerard Meijssen < > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com > > wrote: > > > Hoi, > > Anna I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-11 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Anna, > Sometimes I wonder if hope isn’t at the base of it all. Perhaps hope is > necessary but certainly not sufficient for it all to transpire. Hope is not > a strategy. But maybe it's a foundation. > Certainly, but there is an old saying about "the triumph of hope over experience". The

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-11 Thread Anna Stillwell
On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 11:52 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > Anna I absolutely loved what you write. Gerard, I'm feeling the love, dude. (A fellow co-worker and I were talking the other day and she said that she even calls inanimate objects dude. I deeply

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-10 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Anna I absolutely loved what you write. It is very much uplifting to see that you want to move forward and want to do this based on the facts on the ground and not so much on our convoluted history that is spread out so much that even someone like me who has been involved for the longest time

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-10 Thread Anna Stillwell
On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Rogol Domedonfors wrote: > Anna, > > > > As you may have noticed, threaded discussions become difficult for me to > > visually navigate after a while. Thus, the color. > > > > Sorry, colour doesn't come through on the mailing list. > Thank

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-05 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Anna, > As you may have noticed, threaded discussions become difficult for me to > visually navigate after a while. Thus, the color. > Sorry, colour doesn't come through on the mailing list. > Call me naive, but I’m excited by the prospect of the movement strategy >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-02-04 Thread Anna Stillwell
"Rogol", As you may have noticed, threaded discussions become difficult for me to visually navigate after a while. Thus, the color. On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Rogol Domedonfors wrote: > Anna > > > > To be clear, I’m engaged in understanding your perspective. I’m >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-28 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Gerard, > What I explicitly say is that when the whole of the community is seen as > the community of en.wp then I truly think there is something fundamentally > wrong with the notions pandered. I agree, and the more readily since I do not think, and have not said, that the English-language

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-28 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, What I explicitly say is that when the whole of the community is seen as the community of en.wp then I truly think there is something fundamentally wrong with the notions pandered. Thanks, GerardM On 28 January 2017 at 18:54, Rogol Domedonfors wrote: > Gerard, >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-28 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Gerard, If you think it is particularly bad for the WMF to be asked to engage with the community, perhaps you could tell us how, in your view, the way the WMF plans its activities and spends the donors' money, and supports the people who write the contents of the projects the WMF hosts, could be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-28 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, When an argument has it that something will not workshop because of en wp, I am disgusted. Yet another argument on less of 50% of our traffic. It is particulariteit bad when the wmf is asked to engage the community. What community? Thanks, GerardM Op za 28 jan. 2017 om 18:27 schreef

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-28 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Anna > To be clear, I’m engaged in understanding your perspective. I’m > not promising to do any specific thing at this time. I like understanding > problems and wondering how we might solve seemingly complicated ones in > simple ways. It’s kind of a sickness. > Got it, thanks for asking. > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-27 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Anna Thank you for that. In general an engagement works well when both, or all, parties have something to bring to the table and something to gain from the engagement (and certain other factors are in . So for example, in the field of software planning one might expect that an engagement

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-27 Thread Sam Klein
The sincerity and quality of communication in this thread, and is deep-linked citations, made me grin in an outrageous week. You are all wonderful. On the original subject: Interactives are increasingly satisfying to use; hats off to those involved. No surprise they inspired this shaded

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-27 Thread Anna Stillwell
Hey Pine, Thanks for all of the good ideas. I'll reach out to you. As for the other suggestions, I appreciate them. I do a lot better and understand a lot more in 1:1 communication, so I'd prefer to interview people. /a On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 5:19 PM, Pine W wrote: > Hi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-26 Thread Pine W
Speaking of communications, it would help if I would practice what I preach. Let me reword one problematic sentence: "Perhaps this could be the start of a "Community-WMF Communications office hour that could happen on a quarterly basis." Sorry for the extra email to fix that. I'm not sure that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-26 Thread Pine W
Hi Anna, Outside of the scope of this thread, I'd be glad to have a conversation about WMF-community communication in general. May I suggest making that a subject for an office hour at some future time? We'll likely need more than a single office hour to untangle all of the threads and make sure

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-26 Thread Anna Stillwell
Rogol, Good to hear from you. "I am surprised by the notion that WMF middle management is in some way answerable to the Community. I would have thought that was the least productive form of engagement between the two sides." Rogol, I'd like to hear more about what you mean here, specifically in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-26 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
I am surprised by the notion that WMF middle management is in some way answerable to the Community. I would have thought that was the least productive form of engagement between the two sides. The issue is what, if anything, will happen to the tools that the contributors want and need to carry

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-26 Thread James Heilman
I guess the question is was this a request for input on what the community thinks of the Interactive Team or the strategy of the discovery team? Or was it simply a "for your information", we have decided to do X, Y, and Z. The first is much more preferable to the second, but it appears the second

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread Pete Forsyth
On 01/25/2017 09:52 PM, Anna Stillwell wrote: Got it. (I add color so I can see. I think I need better glasses. Sad!). :) I was just asking whether you thought it was reasonable to give them the time that they asked for. It wasn't a governance question, or a discussion about authority. I was

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread Anna Stillwell
On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 9:14 PM, Pete Forsyth wrote: > Anna, > > I've now read what you quoted for a third time, and can confirm I did > understand, and agree with, what you said. I'm sorry my summary was > inadequate, and may have made it seem otherwise. > > As for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread Pete Forsyth
Anna, I've now read what you quoted for a third time, and can confirm I did understand, and agree with, what you said. I'm sorry my summary was inadequate, and may have made it seem otherwise. As for planning, I am not making assumptions, but perhaps interpreting differently from you. I'm

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread Anna Stillwell
On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Pete Forsyth wrote: > Anna, > Pete, > > Your points are valid and well taken. If I may summarize what I think I > heard, it's basically: "Getting things right can be hard, and if full > preparations weren't made ahead of time, thorough

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread Chris Koerner
Today marks my 1 year anniversary with the WMF. What a ride it's been! A little clarification, or a timeline if you will. Work on Interactive was led by very energetic and talented technical folks for a good chunk of time with out a lot structure around the work. Then, about a quarter ago, the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread Pete Forsyth
Anna, Your points are valid and well taken. If I may summarize what I think I heard, it's basically: "Getting things right can be hard, and if full preparations weren't made ahead of time, thorough answers may not be readily available. Be compassionate/patient." Is that about right? If so, I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread James Heilman
Agree with Tim, one would image that a fair bit of thought would have gone into a decision such as this. That it would have occurred over multiple meetings with substantial input from various parts of the organization. I think it is reasonable to give the WMF some time to comment on this further.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread Anna Stillwell
You make substantive points, Tim. Thank you. "An employee should not experience their time off as a period where his [her/they] work load is just temporarily buffered until his [her/they] return, but where colleagues will step in and take care of business." I take this point seriously and don't

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread Tim Landscheidt
Anna Stillwell wrote: > […] > I also hear that the pause on the interactive work is temporary. I’ve heard > them request time. I am comfortable granting that request, but no one is > required to agree with me. They’ve also said that the person with the most >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread Lane Rasberry
Hello, I have just been informed that Yuri is no longer with the WMF. I was not aware. I think he might have left within the past 10 days, or perhaps I am just way out of touch. Whatever the case - that is all the more reason to seize the moment! Brilliant people come and go in the wiki

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread Lane Rasberry
Hello, I do not know the situation with the Interactive Team but among other things, there is a wiki community request for better communication about projects. I would like to share something positive that already happens, and which is an opportunity for better communication going forward. I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-25 Thread Anna Stillwell
Hey DJ These seem like reasonable concerns and I am glad you and others are raising them. I hope you continue to do so. We’re all getting better at working together and it is clear that the foundation has made mistakes in the past, so it is right and good to hold us accountable. I mean that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-24 Thread Wes Moran
Hello everyone, We introduced this upcoming change last week[1] on the Discovery list. At the time, we didn’t have the full details to share, but wanted to let people directly engaging with that team know that some changes were being planned. We were originally going to share more details once

[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [discovery] Interactive Team putting work on pause

2017-01-24 Thread Derk-Jan Hartman
> Hi all, > The Interactive Team in Discovery is in the process of putting its work on > pause. The team's aim during this period is to get its work to a stable and > maintainable state. > Currently, work on new features is on hold. It is not yet known what the > timeline is for this transition to