Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-14 Thread
Lots of good suggestions. Thanks for the feedback. Calculating the amount of travel by flight and train for a conference is not a lot of extra bureaucracy if the estimated distance made part of documenting the grants and expense claims. Playing around with some calculations of my own, it makes

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-14 Thread Bence Damokos
The price really depends on the project selected and can vary from less than a dollar to close to $20 per tonne, and the cheaper projects do not necessarily have less of an impact (more likely they have fewer levels of independent verification). Do note that apart from the company recommended on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-14 Thread Osmar Valdebenito
Maybe it's cheap... for European participants in a conference. People coming from developing nations tend to live further and require longer trips to participate in events and conference, mostly hosted in Europe or the US. So, not only you are asking us to spend larger hours on flights but also

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-12 Thread Andrea Zanni
I agree with Bence. Right now, offsetting is cheap, likely 1-2 percentage points of the cost of travel. Those money could be asked directly in the grant to the WMF, for example, because offsetting several tonnes in bulk is probably cheaper than doing it person by person. But carbon offsetting is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-12 Thread Henry Wood
Mike > Paying for carbon offsets does not further Wikimedia’s goals. Not directly, any more than paying for petrol or aviation fuel does. If you regard it as part of the cost of travel, and that travel does indeed further the Foundation's goals, then it seems reasonable to pay for it. Henry

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-11 Thread Bence Damokos
Even at the scale of the WMF, the costs of offset would not be high. At the scale of individual travellers where a typical trip would cause less than 1 tonne of emissions, and offsets available already at the 1$/tonne price range and below - I would argue that if you or your organisation has the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-11 Thread Pete Forsyth
+1 to Mike's approach. An *option* for carbon offsets seems worthwhile. A *requirement* seems potentially at odds with our desire to be inclusive and accessible. And I agree that something specifically tailored to a community built around making information accessible would be a much better fit.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-11 Thread Mike Peel
I would suggest taking a different approach. Paying for carbon offsets does not further Wikimedia’s goals. It is, at best, a shortcut to brownie points as measured by other organisations. Requiring volunteers to pay extra for carbon offsets is doubly worse as they can’t then spend that money on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-11 Thread Bence Damokos
In case it is interesting, for the tenders at my workplace that require offsetting, we include this requirement: " Carbon offsetting will be achieved by means of projects of the following type: CDM (Clean Development Mechanism), JI (Joint Implementation) or VER (Voluntary Emissions Reduction),

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-11 Thread Chris Keating
> > This has nothing to do with how green WMF operations might be. It has > to do with the greener choices /we/ as volunteers can make for /our/ > conferences. > Since a fortnight ago you were haranguing* the WMF for using too much air travel and lacking "any actual measurable commitment to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-11 Thread
To clarify, the topic was "planning a conference for next year, we could ask or require participants to factor in payments for carbon offset" This has nothing to do with how green WMF operations might be. It has to do with the greener choices /we/ as volunteers can make for /our/ conferences.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-11 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, When the WMF wants to "green" itself, the most effective way is to make its software and operations greener. The software will reduce the need for energy, the operations ensure that green energy is used. Reducing the need for energy is an investment that will reduce the overall cost and has

[Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-11 Thread
In the discussion about the report from the WMF relating to sustainability, mention was made of the potential use of carbon offset. As part of planning a conference for next year, we could ask or require participants to factor in payments for carbon offset. With no experience in examining carbon