Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-06-01 Thread Risker
On 1 June 2014 01:39, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote: ... ... selects strongly against women. Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding wikitext than men? (Probably drifting to Increase participation by

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-06-01 Thread edward
On 01/06/2014 10:53, Ting Chen wrote: Nowaday Wikipedia articles (across all major languages) are highly biased in style and in content to academic thesis. There is good reason for this: 'anyone can edit'. In an encyclopedia produced using the 'one best way' approach, there is sparse use of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-06-01 Thread Peter Southwood
-Original Message- From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of James Salsman Sent: 01 June 2014 05:26 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks] (non-CS

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-06-01 Thread edward
On 01/06/2014 12:00, Peter Southwood wrote: Phototypesetters were typically professionals, therefore not strictly comparable. There is a significant difference to learning a complex system because you are going to earn a living from it, and learning the same system so you can spend your

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-06-01 Thread Thyge
I agree with Ting's remarks about the importance of the social aspect. Maybe we need a taskforce against rudeness. But looking into the social aspect does not exclude improvements on the tech side. I think that maybe instead of VE we should have an 'invisible editor', meaning that if someone hits

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-06-01 Thread Mark
On 6/1/14, 11:53 AM, Ting Chen wrote: And I think it is essential to tell the beginner to do the same: Don't bother with things that are too complicated, it is the content that counts. Yes, I think we need to publicize this more widely. People are usually surprised when I tell them that as a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-06-01 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 06/01/2014 07:13 AM, edward wrote: Which explains the gender bias, yes? At least in large part; Risker explained it more eloquently than I. There is a bias against women because the skillsets currently useful to be able to edit wikitext (programming, heavy markup languages) are more common in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-06-01 Thread Peter Southwood
I have seen little evidence either way. -Original Message- From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of edward Sent: 01 June 2014 01:14 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-31 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 05/31/2014 08:27 PM, James Salsman wrote: Individual editors' skill with wikitext should be independent of almost all of the systemic biases from which we suffer [...] Seriously? I have (non-CS) engineer friends that, upon hitting that edit button, basically went Gak! No way! Wikitext

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-31 Thread James Salsman
(non-CS) engineer friends ... upon hitting that edit button, basically went Gak! No way! Wikitext is simpler than what phototypesetter operators in the 1960s-1990s had to deal with, and they had a much better gender balance. Wikitext resitricts editing to pretty much only computer science

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-30 Thread Rui Correia
even finding the glaring typo you saw in a reference is nearly impossible after you hit the edit button. -- Marc Yes, it was, as references were getting longer and longer (almost to the point of including the author's likesa and deslikes and what he or she had for breakfast. That was 'solved' by

[Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread Rui Correia
[Chaging subject line as (1) topic has moved on (2) need to ensure visibility by rising above the Lila/ Wil never ending story frenzy.] Hi James Do we have any figures on retention of new editors? How long does the average new editor stay? What percentage of new editors stays on for 6 months;

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Rui Correia, 29/05/2014 15:01: Do we have any figures on retention of new editors? https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearchprofile=advancedsearch=retentionfulltext=Searchns202=1profile=advanced How long does the average new editor stay? What percentage of new editors

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread
On 29/05/2014, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: ... In the end what retention matters for is http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediansEditsGt5.htm That is an incredibly useful report. If like me, most people find this a hard table to remember how to locate, a link to a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Fæ, 29/05/2014 16:07: Perhaps we should have some more memorable on-wiki short-cuts to link and find these reports? I suggested Erik Zachte that we could override the default [[MediaWiki:statistics-footer]] (which is empty) on all Wikimedia wikis to link relevant WikiStats reports, but he's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread Rui Correia
Hi Frederico Neither of those answers my question. I doesn't tell me whether we are bleeding new or old members. The reason for an editor of either group to leave are different. All that that graph shows is that there has been a frightful drop since 2007. Rui 2014-05-29 15:28 GMT+02:00

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread rupert THURNER
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Fæ, 29/05/2014 16:07: Perhaps we should have some more memorable on-wiki short-cuts to link and find these reports? I suggested Erik Zachte that we could override the default [[MediaWiki:statistics-footer]]

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread Lila Tretikov
We have deeper graphs. I want to be sensitive to our product team's time, but I am sure they will share when they can. The short answer -- I believe -- the the community tends to gravitate towards its current state and loose new editors at a higher rate. This is not unusual in general of course

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread
On 29 May 2014 15:31, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote: Neither of those answers my question. I doesn't tell me whether we are bleeding new or old members. The reason for an editor of either group to leave are different. All that that graph shows is that there has been a frightful drop

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread
n 29 May 2014 15:43, Lila Tretikov l...@wikimedia.org wrote: We have deeper graphs. I want to be sensitive to our product team's time, but I am sure they will share when they can. Hi Lila, As well as WMF teams, there are quite a few volunteers about who pull reports from the database or

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread James Salsman
Rui Correia wrote: ... tell me whether we are bleeding new or old members. http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Editor_Trends_Study/Results http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Editor_lifecycle and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Editor_classes agree: we lose experienced editors at

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks]

2014-05-29 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 05/29/2014 08:57 PM, James Salsman wrote: but it was misplaced because being able to figure out wikitext is an excellent attribute in new editors I think that statement fails on two aspects: for one, saying that the enthusiasm 'was misplaced' is rather premature as VE itself is rather