Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
Hei, I kind of sympathize with Jens' points. Mr. Zuckerberg, and especially Facebook as a business, are not necessary in a perfect synchrony with the mission and vision of the Wikimedia / Wikipedia movement. Even if this is the case we may ask does it still make sense for us to collaborate with their initiative? Would it advantage our very own mission and vision? I also think that we are all people, also Mr. Zuckerberg, and people have different sides. I interpret that in the internet.org a group of *people*, working for big corporations, have seen a possibility to do something *good* that is same time in the interests of their businesses. I think we often forget that also in big corporation there are people, individuals who do choices. I do not see in here any hidden agendas or wrong doing. I see people trying to do something good. Like GerardM pointed out, the internet.org may help us to get knowledge for people who otherwise would not have access to the Wikipedia. I do not see that this would move us somehow to the dark side, especially when the *people* in the internet.org are not necessary evil. With the fact that the Wikimedia foundation is financially sustainable, we also have a great position to negotiate with the internet.org people. I actually think that they need more Wikimedia / Wikipedia than we need them. Still, I think collaboration with them could advance our mission. Best regards, - Teemu On 27.8.2013, at 9.32, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, Jens, I am sorry there is nothing in what you say that has a bearing on what the aim is of the Wikimedia Foundation. Our aim is to get information/knowledge to every person in the world. The people that may be reached by this initiative are the ones we do not reach. When we can reach them through something like a Wikipedia ZERO approach, this would be awesome never mind if Facebook et al make money out of it. The NSA et al have a reach that includes us all. Nothing is likely to change at that. It is however beside the point. The point is that we may reach more people and consequently do a better job at what our aim is. Thanks, GerardM On 26 August 2013 23:58, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote: The internet Mr. Zuggerberg wants was nothing to do with the ideas of free knowledge, online collaboration and open source as it is provided and promoted by Wikimedia. Don't believe the Hype. Even and especially if it is Hype 2.0. Just because the Silicon Valley billionaires got caught with sleeping with the NSA suddenly they push an open internet for the world-Idea to distract everybody from the dark roots. Wikimedia should stay far away from this crowd and its initiatives. Maybe in the future we should even get more distance between them (Facebook, Google, etc.) and us. Jens 2013/8/26 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com Hoi, For your information ... an interview with Mr Zuggerberg... In my opinion there is an opportunity as he is looking for dense information.. we are really good at that :) Thanks, Gerard http://www.wired.com/business/2013/08/mark-zuckerberg-internet-org/ On 23 August 2013 14:38, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada emi...@gmail.com wrote: Looks like NSA has bought some new hard drives and needs moar data. 2013/8/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com Hoi, But when they provide the infrastructure that allows our content to be seen by many more people, they do us a service. In the end it is what we are about. Last thing I heard we were first of all about getting the knowledge out there. Thanks, GerardM On 23 August 2013 12:14, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote: Nothing good comes with people like Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel, they don't share our vision of a *really* free and open internet. So, actually, Emmanuel, I couldn't care less which direction they gonna make their next moves. It will all be a disguise of what they really attempt and with whom they really cooperate. It's time to realize that there isn't a shared vision of the web between Silicon Valley and Wikimedia. Their words are empty. When they speak of freedom, they speak of the freedom of money and control. Just because they use the word internet they don't speak of the same thing we do. Jens 2013/8/23 Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit : I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now. Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be involved? If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our movement joins such a dishonest project. If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and adapt their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a dilemma. A dilemna between our
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
Wikimedia should stay far away from this crowd and its initiatives. Maybe in the future we should even get more distance between them (Facebook, Google, etc.) and us. And how that would bring us closer to our vision to have all humans have access to knowledge? JP Béland ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
Hoi, For your information ... an interview with Mr Zuggerberg... In my opinion there is an opportunity as he is looking for dense information.. we are really good at that :) Thanks, Gerard http://www.wired.com/business/2013/08/mark-zuckerberg-internet-org/ On 23 August 2013 14:38, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada emi...@gmail.comwrote: Looks like NSA has bought some new hard drives and needs moar data. 2013/8/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com Hoi, But when they provide the infrastructure that allows our content to be seen by many more people, they do us a service. In the end it is what we are about. Last thing I heard we were first of all about getting the knowledge out there. Thanks, GerardM On 23 August 2013 12:14, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote: Nothing good comes with people like Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel, they don't share our vision of a *really* free and open internet. So, actually, Emmanuel, I couldn't care less which direction they gonna make their next moves. It will all be a disguise of what they really attempt and with whom they really cooperate. It's time to realize that there isn't a shared vision of the web between Silicon Valley and Wikimedia. Their words are empty. When they speak of freedom, they speak of the freedom of money and control. Just because they use the word internet they don't speak of the same thing we do. Jens 2013/8/23 Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit : I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now. Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be involved? If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our movement joins such a dishonest project. If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and adapt their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a dilemma. A dilemna between our wish to give access to our content (tactical move) and the one of having a free, neutral and un-clustered Internet (strategical view)... Big discussions in view, but we already have done it with Wikipedia zero and I know the WMF tends to be pragmatic in such situations ;) If they really want to help to give a neutral access to internet... then this is really a dream we should be part of! But, this is all about speculations... I just wanted to explain why this launch doesn't sound well to my hears. But I know nothing about their real intentions and concrete projects. That's why, it's IMO urgent to wait... and see in which direction they will make the next moves. Emmanuel -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- -- Jens Best Präsidium Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. web: http://www.wikimedia.de mail: jens.best http://goog_17221883@wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
Hear, hear. Ziko 2013/8/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com Hoi, But when they provide the infrastructure that allows our content to be seen by many more people, they do us a service. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
Hi, Have you noticed the new internet.org initiative by Facebook, Samsung, Nokia, Qualcomm, Ericsson and MediaTek? Internet.org is a global partnership between technology leaders, nonprofits, local communities and experts who are working together to bring the internet to the two thirds of the world’s population that doesn’t have it.[1, 2] Would it make sense for the WMF's Wikipedia Zero program to collaborate with this? Any comments? Best regards, - Teemu [1] http://www.internet.org [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/technology/facebook-leads-an-effort-to-lower-barriers-to-internet-access.html -- Teemu Leinonen http://www2.uiah.fi/~tleinone/ +358 50 351 6796 Media Lab http://mlab.uiah.fi Aalto University School of Arts, Design and Architecture -- ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
I'm maybe too pessimistic, but I would be really surprised if this project, at any time, really helps to provide an access (neutral) to the Internet. More probable: They will try to give a free/cheap access to a set of their online services and so one do the same like AOL or MSN have tried to do 15 years ago. ... or like we do with Wikipedia zero... but, to the contrary to this alliance, Wikimedia has never claimed that they wanted to give access to the Internet. So, IMO, this whole story about internet.org stinks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oFXCXQpJXI Emmanuel Le 23/08/2013 10:25, Leinonen Teemu a écrit : Hi, Have you noticed the new internet.org initiative by Facebook, Samsung, Nokia, Qualcomm, Ericsson and MediaTek? Internet.org is a global partnership between technology leaders, nonprofits, local communities and experts who are working together to bring the internet to the two thirds of the world’s population that doesn’t have it.[1, 2] Would it make sense for the WMF's Wikipedia Zero program to collaborate with this? Any comments? Best regards, - Teemu [1] http://www.internet.org [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/technology/facebook-leads-an-effort-to-lower-barriers-to-internet-access.html -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
Emmanuel, I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now. Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be involved? --Kul On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.orgwrote: I'm maybe too pessimistic, but I would be really surprised if this project, at any time, really helps to provide an access (neutral) to the Internet. More probable: They will try to give a free/cheap access to a set of their online services and so one do the same like AOL or MSN have tried to do 15 years ago. ... or like we do with Wikipedia zero... but, to the contrary to this alliance, Wikimedia has never claimed that they wanted to give access to the Internet. So, IMO, this whole story about internet.org stinks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oFXCXQpJXI Emmanuel Le 23/08/2013 10:25, Leinonen Teemu a écrit : Hi, Have you noticed the new internet.org initiative by Facebook, Samsung, Nokia, Qualcomm, Ericsson and MediaTek? Internet.org is a global partnership between technology leaders, nonprofits, local communities and experts who are working together to bring the internet to the two thirds of the world’s population that doesn’t have it.[1, 2] Would it make sense for the WMF's Wikipedia Zero program to collaborate with this? Any comments? Best regards, - Teemu [1] http://www.internet.org [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/technology/facebook-leads-an-effort-to-lower-barriers-to-internet-access.html -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Kul Wadhwa Head of Mobile Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
Hoi, All we need to do is what we already do: make our content available for free. When we are really in their face that we bring neutral information to everyone, everywhere how and why will they deny us? Thanks, GerardM On 23 August 2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa kwad...@wikimedia.org wrote: Emmanuel, I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now. Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be involved? --Kul On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org wrote: I'm maybe too pessimistic, but I would be really surprised if this project, at any time, really helps to provide an access (neutral) to the Internet. More probable: They will try to give a free/cheap access to a set of their online services and so one do the same like AOL or MSN have tried to do 15 years ago. ... or like we do with Wikipedia zero... but, to the contrary to this alliance, Wikimedia has never claimed that they wanted to give access to the Internet. So, IMO, this whole story about internet.org stinks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oFXCXQpJXI Emmanuel Le 23/08/2013 10:25, Leinonen Teemu a écrit : Hi, Have you noticed the new internet.org initiative by Facebook, Samsung, Nokia, Qualcomm, Ericsson and MediaTek? Internet.org is a global partnership between technology leaders, nonprofits, local communities and experts who are working together to bring the internet to the two thirds of the world’s population that doesn’t have it.[1, 2] Would it make sense for the WMF's Wikipedia Zero program to collaborate with this? Any comments? Best regards, - Teemu [1] http://www.internet.org [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/technology/facebook-leads-an-effort-to-lower-barriers-to-internet-access.html -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Kul Wadhwa Head of Mobile Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
I would suggest to keep distance to this wannabe-NGO which more or less only exists to serve the interests of commercial players which mostly do * not* stand for a free and open web. internet.org is nothing what will serve the ideas and ideals of an internet as it is represented also by Wikimedia. Don't believe the hype. Best regards Jens Best 2013/8/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com Hoi, All we need to do is what we already do: make our content available for free. When we are really in their face that we bring neutral information to everyone, everywhere how and why will they deny us? Thanks, GerardM On 23 August 2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa kwad...@wikimedia.org wrote: Emmanuel, I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now. Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be involved? --Kul On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org wrote: I'm maybe too pessimistic, but I would be really surprised if this project, at any time, really helps to provide an access (neutral) to the Internet. More probable: They will try to give a free/cheap access to a set of their online services and so one do the same like AOL or MSN have tried to do 15 years ago. ... or like we do with Wikipedia zero... but, to the contrary to this alliance, Wikimedia has never claimed that they wanted to give access to the Internet. So, IMO, this whole story about internet.org stinks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oFXCXQpJXI Emmanuel Le 23/08/2013 10:25, Leinonen Teemu a écrit : Hi, Have you noticed the new internet.org initiative by Facebook, Samsung, Nokia, Qualcomm, Ericsson and MediaTek? Internet.org is a global partnership between technology leaders, nonprofits, local communities and experts who are working together to bring the internet to the two thirds of the world’s population that doesn’t have it.[1, 2] Would it make sense for the WMF's Wikipedia Zero program to collaborate with this? Any comments? Best regards, - Teemu [1] http://www.internet.org [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/technology/facebook-leads-an-effort-to-lower-barriers-to-internet-access.html -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Kul Wadhwa Head of Mobile Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- -- Jens Best Präsidium Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. web: http://www.wikimedia.de mail: jens.best http://goog_17221883@wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
On 23 August 2013 10:28, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote: I would suggest to keep distance to this wannabe-NGO which more or less only exists to serve the interests of commercial players which mostly do * not* stand for a free and open web. internet.org is nothing what will serve the ideas and ideals of an internet as it is represented also by Wikimedia. Don't believe the hype. I concur. Dig this: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/13/08/what-internetorgs-stirring-video-cut-from-the-kennedy-speech-it-quotes/278896/ Whatever these people are doing doesn't actually appear to be much to do with what we're doing. - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit : I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now. Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be involved? If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our movement joins such a dishonest project. If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and adapt their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a dilemma. A dilemna between our wish to give access to our content (tactical move) and the one of having a free, neutral and un-clustered Internet (strategical view)... Big discussions in view, but we already have done it with Wikipedia zero and I know the WMF tends to be pragmatic in such situations ;) If they really want to help to give a neutral access to internet... then this is really a dream we should be part of! But, this is all about speculations... I just wanted to explain why this launch doesn't sound well to my hears. But I know nothing about their real intentions and concrete projects. That's why, it's IMO urgent to wait... and see in which direction they will make the next moves. Emmanuel -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
Nothing good comes with people like Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel, they don't share our vision of a *really* free and open internet. So, actually, Emmanuel, I couldn't care less which direction they gonna make their next moves. It will all be a disguise of what they really attempt and with whom they really cooperate. It's time to realize that there isn't a shared vision of the web between Silicon Valley and Wikimedia. Their words are empty. When they speak of freedom, they speak of the freedom of money and control. Just because they use the word internet they don't speak of the same thing we do. Jens 2013/8/23 Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit : I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now. Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be involved? If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our movement joins such a dishonest project. If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and adapt their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a dilemma. A dilemna between our wish to give access to our content (tactical move) and the one of having a free, neutral and un-clustered Internet (strategical view)... Big discussions in view, but we already have done it with Wikipedia zero and I know the WMF tends to be pragmatic in such situations ;) If they really want to help to give a neutral access to internet... then this is really a dream we should be part of! But, this is all about speculations... I just wanted to explain why this launch doesn't sound well to my hears. But I know nothing about their real intentions and concrete projects. That's why, it's IMO urgent to wait... and see in which direction they will make the next moves. Emmanuel -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- -- Jens Best Präsidium Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. web: http://www.wikimedia.de mail: jens.best http://goog_17221883@wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
Hoi, But when they provide the infrastructure that allows our content to be seen by many more people, they do us a service. In the end it is what we are about. Last thing I heard we were first of all about getting the knowledge out there. Thanks, GerardM On 23 August 2013 12:14, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote: Nothing good comes with people like Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel, they don't share our vision of a *really* free and open internet. So, actually, Emmanuel, I couldn't care less which direction they gonna make their next moves. It will all be a disguise of what they really attempt and with whom they really cooperate. It's time to realize that there isn't a shared vision of the web between Silicon Valley and Wikimedia. Their words are empty. When they speak of freedom, they speak of the freedom of money and control. Just because they use the word internet they don't speak of the same thing we do. Jens 2013/8/23 Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit : I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now. Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be involved? If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our movement joins such a dishonest project. If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and adapt their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a dilemma. A dilemna between our wish to give access to our content (tactical move) and the one of having a free, neutral and un-clustered Internet (strategical view)... Big discussions in view, but we already have done it with Wikipedia zero and I know the WMF tends to be pragmatic in such situations ;) If they really want to help to give a neutral access to internet... then this is really a dream we should be part of! But, this is all about speculations... I just wanted to explain why this launch doesn't sound well to my hears. But I know nothing about their real intentions and concrete projects. That's why, it's IMO urgent to wait... and see in which direction they will make the next moves. Emmanuel -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- -- Jens Best Präsidium Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. web: http://www.wikimedia.de mail: jens.best http://goog_17221883@wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Internet.org and Wikipedia Zero ?
Looks like NSA has bought some new hard drives and needs moar data. 2013/8/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com Hoi, But when they provide the infrastructure that allows our content to be seen by many more people, they do us a service. In the end it is what we are about. Last thing I heard we were first of all about getting the knowledge out there. Thanks, GerardM On 23 August 2013 12:14, Jens Best jens.b...@wikimedia.de wrote: Nothing good comes with people like Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel, they don't share our vision of a *really* free and open internet. So, actually, Emmanuel, I couldn't care less which direction they gonna make their next moves. It will all be a disguise of what they really attempt and with whom they really cooperate. It's time to realize that there isn't a shared vision of the web between Silicon Valley and Wikimedia. Their words are empty. When they speak of freedom, they speak of the freedom of money and control. Just because they use the word internet they don't speak of the same thing we do. Jens 2013/8/23 Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org Le 23/08/2013 10:59, Kul Wadhwa a écrit : I have my concerns as well so we're watching how things unfold for now. Perhaps to add to Teemu's question (If I could be so bold) how would internet.org need to evolve to make it worth our time and effort to be involved? If what I fear becomes real, then I would be sad that our movement joins such a dishonest project. If they want to give access to a subset of Internet services and adapt their communication (honesty about the product), then we face a dilemma. A dilemna between our wish to give access to our content (tactical move) and the one of having a free, neutral and un-clustered Internet (strategical view)... Big discussions in view, but we already have done it with Wikipedia zero and I know the WMF tends to be pragmatic in such situations ;) If they really want to help to give a neutral access to internet... then this is really a dream we should be part of! But, this is all about speculations... I just wanted to explain why this launch doesn't sound well to my hears. But I know nothing about their real intentions and concrete projects. That's why, it's IMO urgent to wait... and see in which direction they will make the next moves. Emmanuel -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- -- Jens Best Präsidium Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. web: http://www.wikimedia.de mail: jens.best http://goog_17221883@wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
