Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-04 Thread FRED BAUDER
An executive summary is common at the head of many reports and articles. Only sections in the body of the article would be cited. Somewhat like a lede but more detailed. The main body of the article would still have a lede. Fred Bauder ___

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-04 Thread quiddity
This is a long thread, with a somewhat confusing first post. One of the core ideas I can pull out of it, is along the lines of: "we should have more dynamically variable content for different audiences/needs". I.e. For any given topic: Some people want the 10 word version, Some people want the 2

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-04 Thread Leinonen Teemu
Hi, Please, remember the Wikipedia / Wikimedia mission and vision. Our aim is to be a global movement of free, global, multi-lingual knowledge. Globally smartphones are already the main and primary device to access the Internet for the majority of people. Therefore: (1) We should do

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-04 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
As someone already mentioned earlier in this thread, I believe there is a concrete structural obstacle in mobile editing, which has to do with the ability of searching resources, quickly reading books, papers, PDF articles, a plethora of websites, news, etc, and using them in Wikipedia articles in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-04 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Jonathan Cardy escreveu no dia terça, 1/01/2019 à(s) 09:54: > Yes the greying of the pedia is a real phenomena, and I am sure that an > editor survey would confirm that on average we are getting older. > At least in the Lusophone world, evidence does not seem to support that idea of the greying

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-04 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Samuel Klein escreveu no dia terça, 1/01/2019 à(s) 00:51: > Dear Kiril, I assume you mean these lovely experiments by Shared Knowledge: > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Videos_from_the_Republic_of_Macedonia > > They are lovely, and look like they are now in use. I like specific >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-04 Thread Jane Darnell
rs, > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Amir E. Aharoni > Sent: 31 December 2018 21:56 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-02 Thread Peter Southwood
To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent? ‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 31 בדצמ׳ 2018 ב-10:14 מאת ‪Peter Southwood‬‏ <‪ peter.southw...@telkomsa.net‬‏>:‬ Does the technology exist? Is it available? How does this splitting make maintenance easier? Cheers,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-01 Thread Yethrosh
I believe much depends on Wikipedia Mobile app. Users are mostly on mobile now and they feel it natural to do any thing from mobile. If only, creating articles and adding citations could be done easily through mobile app, can make a big difference. On Mon, 31 Dec 2018, 2:22 a.m. David Cuenca

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-01 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, I spend some time formulating my thoughts on the subject. Arguably I am not a Wikipedian but apart from the necessary changes we must go through, I see a great future for our work. What I have to say is on my blog [1]. The most important change is that we need to become less US-American to be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-01 Thread Jane Darnell
Thanks to Yaroslav who started this interesting conversation, and thanks for all the comments. I agree with lots of them, but especially this: Happy Public Domain Day! On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 7:15 AM Amir E. Aharoni wrote: > בתאריך יום א׳, 30 בדצמ׳ 2018, 15:55, מאת Yaroslav Blanter < >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2019-01-01 Thread Jonathan Cardy
radar as a risk. Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 22:34:27 +0100 From: Yaroslav Blanter To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
בתאריך יום ג׳, 1 בינו׳ 2019, 07:37, מאת Paulo Santos Perneta < paulospern...@gmail.com>: > Ahh, it would really be a fantastic improvement if we could get rid of all > that template & category clutter from the articles. [...] Let me tell a little > story: Some months ago I was in a workshop

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
בתאריך יום א׳, 30 בדצמ׳ 2018, 15:55, מאת Yaroslav Blanter : > > > Re main point: People, let us be serious. We missed mobile editing (well, > at least this has been identified as a problem, and something is being done > about it). We missed voice interfaces. We are now missing neural networks. >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
living in pieces, > I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > Behalf Of Jane Darnell > > Sent: 30 December 2018 15:42 > > To: Wikimedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Kiril Simeonovski
Hi Sj, The project documentation can be found on Meta and the story was also featured in the GLAM newsletter twice. The idea about dedicated environment either as a separate wiki or as part of the incubator for testing novelties is sound, and it would be interesting to see how that will work in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread James Heilman
With respect to complexity of language, we have some data in publication, looking at the the leads of English medical articles over time. Good news is that they have improved over the last 10 years from a reading level of close to "grade 16" to just under "grade 13". This has been a concerted

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Samuel Klein
Dear Kiril, I assume you mean these lovely experiments by Shared Knowledge: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Videos_from_the_Republic_of_Macedonia They are lovely, and look like they are now in use. I like specific examples like these; was there any description of the project

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
iling List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent? > > Well it is not difficult to imagine when you consider for example line > items in the case of list articles. Many lists could be split into such > line items and kept in a static assembled form by s

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Kiril Simeonovski
P.S. I can give you a very nice example of this happening in practice from my personal experience. Few years ago, we produced high-quality videos documenting physics and chemistry experiments that had to be added to related articles. The project was welcomed by some chapters, mostly despised by

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Kiril Simeonovski
Hi Paulo, I agree that more or less we know what activities are intended for new and what for experienced users. The challenging part is to make a sensible decision on whether to reach out to new users using the visual editor and the translation tool or to continue with the old-fashioned code

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Kiril Simeonovski escreveu no dia segunda, 31/12/2018 à(s) 10:05: > some innovations. The problem with expanding an unchanged and obsolete > infrastructure to underrepresented groups might result to no avail and > further incentivise a major shift, thus doubling the cost invested in >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
> > Peter > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > Behalf Of Jane Darnell > > Sent: 30 December 2018 15:42 > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of W

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Yaroslav Blanter escreveu no dia domingo, 30/12/2018 à(s) 13:55: > Re milennials: this is clearly not a red herring. Just ask Facebook what > their demographics is and why the 18- generation is not using it. > Stats show that Galinha Pintadinha was one of the most viewed articles in 2018 at

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Peter Southwood
-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jane Darnell Sent: 31 December 2018 13:09 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent? Well of course it is impossible for me to peek in the kitchens of all other Wikipedia article creators, but speaking

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Jane Darnell
Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Jane Darnell > Sent: 31 December 2018 10:41 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent? > > 1) Not that I know of, 2) not that I know of, 3) fewer it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Kiril Simeonovski
Dec 31, 2018 at 9:57 AM Peter Southwood < peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > I would see more items to watchlist, as in place of one large item you > would have all the components to worry about. > I don't follow the easier to de-orphanise aspect. > Also don’t see how having to hav

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Kiril Simeonovski
-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Jane Darnell > Sent: 30 December 2018 15:42 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent? > > Well it is not difficult to imagine when you consider for example line > item

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Peter Southwood
Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jane Darnell Sent: 31 December 2018 10:41 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent? 1) Not that I know of, 2) not that I know of, 3) fewer items to watchlist

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Jane Darnell
ne Darnell > Sent: 30 December 2018 15:42 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent? > > Well it is not difficult to imagine when you consider for example line > items in the case of list articles. Many lists could be split into

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Peter Southwood
gt;> Several recent developments relate to this situation which I think you >>>>> have described reasonably well. >>>>> Short descriptions help a bit. But they are too short to help much >>>>> Simple Wikipedia tries to keep things simple and easily underst

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-31 Thread Peter Southwood
: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent? Well it is not difficult to imagine when you consider for example line items in the case of list articles. Many lists could be split into such line items and kept in a static assembled form by some sort of "assembly template". Many of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread David Cuenca Tudela
Answering the initial question: It depends on how you understand "death". Wikipedia is the manifestation of a collection of algorithms running in the minds of thousands of people. With time it could become less popular to run that algorithm in your life, or you would like to try a different one.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread Lane Rasberry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_of_the_end_of_Wikipedia ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
Thanks for the reactions so far, they have been very useful. Let me answer some of the points. Re subject line: Obviously it is deliberately provocative to generate more response and reach out to more people. Whereas what I write I do seriously, if it stays a discussion of a dozen of people with

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread Zubin JAIN
>That's exactly the point here! Maybe not everyone is like that, but the pattern is supported by studies. The question is: how do we support (or, how do we make Wikipedia relevant for) this category? But it's not supported by rigorous evidence, a few studies and a bunch of clickbait headlines

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread Jane Darnell
Well it is not difficult to imagine when you consider for example line items in the case of list articles. Many lists could be split into such line items and kept in a static assembled form by some sort of "assembly template". Many of these line items are either articles or parts of articles. Such

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread Strainu
În dum., 30 dec. 2018 la 12:40, Zubin JAIN a scris: > These are gross generalizations That's exactly the point here! Maybe not everyone is like that, but the pattern is supported by studies. The question is: how do we support (or, how do we make Wikipedia relevant for) this category? > The idea

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread Anders Wennersten
e top of a desktop view, and possibly the primary target in mobile. This would not be needed for all articles. Cheers, Peter Southwood -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter Sent: 29 December 2018 23:34 To: Wi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 at 21:35, Yaroslav Blanter wrote: > I have written a long text today (posted in my FB) Facebook, is that still a thing? Gah, whatever is being posted there, many of us Wikipedians are never going to see it. It would be nice to see more people writing decent essays as blog

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread Peter Southwood
] On Behalf Of Jane Darnell Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 11:20 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent? I still believe we need to "explode Wikipedia", by which I mean split curation templates, categories, lists and all othe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread David Gerard
ut > >>> perhaps concentrates too much on a small vocabulary. > >>> I do see a real need and a use for a "Readers Digest" or "executive > >>> summary" version of long and complex articles for people who don’t have a > >>> need for the f

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread Anders Wennersten
riginal Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter Sent: 29 December 2018 23:34 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent? I have written a long text today (posted in my FB) which the rea

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread Zubin JAIN
> > > > -Original Message----- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter > > Sent: 29 December 2018 23:34 > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wiki

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread Jane Darnell
and possibly the primary target in mobile. > This would not be needed for all articles. > Cheers, > Peter Southwood > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter > Sent: 29 December 2018 23:3

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-30 Thread Peter Southwood
y the primary target in mobile. This would not be needed for all articles. Cheers, Peter Southwood -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter Sent: 29 December 2018 23:34 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikim

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-29 Thread MZMcBride
Yaroslav Blanter wrote in part: >This is a paradigm shift. Currently, the editors generally consider that >it is good to have long Wikipedia articles - because long means more >complete. Sometimes there are even proposals (fortunately isolated and >without followup) to delete all short articles

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-29 Thread Benjamin Lees
You paint the problem as being about us adapting to changing demographics. I'm not so sure--if only because the notion of attention-impaired millennials appears to be one of those self-propagating ideas whose supposed statistical support turns out to be fabricated.[1][2] If the concern is about

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-29 Thread Joseph Seddon
A it's always nice to quote someone other than Mike Godwin and it seems Betteridge's law of headlines is alive and well. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 10:26 PM Yaroslav Blanter wrote: > Hi Frederick. > > sure, I know. I am

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-29 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
Hi Frederick. sure, I know. I am mostly writing about Russia, and I know there are a lot of topics which are not covered. I am usually the first one who says that there are many topics to even start an article on, and way more to improve. But let us face it - if an English-speaking person looks

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-29 Thread Frederick Noronha
> However, as a general guideline, it is not so > much incorrect to state that all important things in Wikipedia have been > already written. Indeed, if someone looks for information in Wikipedia - > or, more precisely, uses search engines and gets Wikipedia as the first hit > they are likely to

[Wikimedia-l] Is the death of Wikipedia imminent?

2018-12-29 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
I have written a long text today (posted in my FB) which the readers of this mailing list might find interesting. I copy it below. I understand that it is very easy to critisize me for side issues, but if you want to comment/reply I would appreciate if you address the main issue. The target