Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-13 Thread Peter Southwood
: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice Hi All, I just wanted to give my opinion on how to make things more civil and gentle in general, and also to add clarity to the threads. As a non-English native speaker, there are many things I consider do not help at all in written discussions in general in any given

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-13 Thread Asaf Bartov
On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 7:46 AM Kunal Mehta wrote: > > > That is indeed unfortunate! It *used* to list explicit email addresses of > > the admins. I'll see if there's any setting that can be changed. > > This change was intentional, see > (presumably

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-12 Thread Kunal Mehta
Hi, On 2020-09-10 04:34, Asaf Bartov wrote: > On Thu, 10 Sep 2020, 14:05 Fæ wrote: >> Who are the list mods? > > The current list admins are John Vandenberg, Shani Evenstein, and I. > >> Unfortunately, this is not made clear at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-12 Thread Eduardo Testart
Hi All, I just wanted to give my opinion on how to make things more civil and gentle in general, and also to add clarity to the threads. As a non-English native speaker, there are many things I consider do not help at all in written discussions in general in any given list, most of the time when

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-11 Thread Asaf Bartov
On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 6:50 PM Dan Szymborski wrote: > As long as people are going to continue to talk about me and imply that I'm > actually *harassing* people, then I feel I have a right to defend myself. > Nobody ever denied you that right. I brought up that the UCoC standard is a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-11 Thread David Gerard
If we didn't want serious discussions to come to this mailing list, or have discussions on it taken seriously, this thread would so far be a great example for not doing so. Thankfully, it won't actually succeed in derailing the discussions. - d. ___

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-11 Thread Dan Szymborski
As long as people are going to continue to talk about me and imply that I'm actually *harassing* people, then I feel I have a right to defend myself. No, clear warnings weren't given. I compared the action of a *non-profit board* tangentially to *flatulence* and I was immediately talked down to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-11 Thread Robert Fernandez
This is all so predictably tiresome. Any attempt to center a discussion forum on its intended purpose is hijacked by people outraged that they are deprived of their own personal soapboxes. I see this matter is spilling over into multiple threads. I propose that objectors start a new thread to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-11 Thread Quim Gil
Hi, On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 4:08 AM effe iets anders wrote: > I would love us to be more gentle, but at the same time it is also > important to recognize diversity in character, expression and opinion. Well, precisely? :) "To recognize diversity in character, expression and opinion" is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-11 Thread Peter Southwood
, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Lukas Mezger Sent: 10 September 2020 20:30 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice Hello, As one of the list subscribers who contacted the list

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread effe iets anders
et>: > > > Is the objection to the words he used or to the way he used them? > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > Behalf > > Of Asaf Bartov > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Aron Manning
I'd like to thank the list administrators for: * their transparency in handling this moderation request * the clarity in describing how to and how not to criticize * for not banning Dan but patiently giving clear guidelines While I don't find Dan's language as offensive as to be banworthy, it is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Lukas Mezger
dia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf > Of Asaf Bartov > Sent: 09 September 2020 21:57 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice > > Dear Wikimedians, > > List subscriber Dan Szymborski has been placed under moderation

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
Is the objection to the words he used or to the way he used them? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Asaf Bartov Sent: 09 September 2020 21:57 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
You read my mind... P -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gnangarra Sent: 10 September 2020 13:50 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice one measure of good judgement would those decline

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Gnangarra
, > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf > Of Asaf Bartov > Sent: 10 September 2020 12:55 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice > > I would say firs

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice I would say first and foremost, good judgment. As measured by the person's track record on-wiki and on this list. Preferring to err on the side of caution, people under community sanctions, or who have themselves been moderated for on-list

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Asaf Bartov
> > What are the criteria for eligibility as moderator for this list? > > > Cheers, > > > Peter > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > > Behalf > > > Of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread
Peter > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > Behalf > > Of Asaf Bartov > > Sent: 10 September 2020 11:07 > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mod

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Asaf Bartov
Sent: 10 September 2020 11:07 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice > > Indeed, there is a potential conflict of interest here. This is why I > strongly tend to leniency, *especially* when unacceptable discourse > coincides with criticism of the Foundation

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
Asaf, What are the criteria for eligibility as moderator for this list? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Asaf Bartov Sent: 10 September 2020 11:07 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread
I'd be happy to help out. I have set up and managed several lists related to our Wikimedia LGBT+ community. As a well-known commentator about the WMF and safe spaces, including running a global RFC that held to account a WMF board member, it might add a useful perceived balance to moderation

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Isaac Olatunde
Hello Asaf I am a list administrator in at least 5 Wikimedia mailing lists and I believe I have the relevant experience in this area. I'd be happy to help out if you need more hands. Regards Isaac On Thu, 10 Sep 2020, 10:08 Asaf Bartov, wrote: > Indeed, there is a potential conflict of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Asaf Bartov
Indeed, there is a potential conflict of interest here. This is why I strongly tend to leniency, *especially* when unacceptable discourse coincides with criticism of the Foundation. In this case, we received requests from two list subscribers to moderate Dan. We did so, while underscoring that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice Dear Wikimedians, List subscriber Dan Szymborski has been placed under moderation, due to posts with unacceptable language. I remind everyone that criticism is appropriate and welcome on this list, so long as it remains civil

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-09 Thread Isaac Olatunde
Hello Todd, The notice was sent by Asaf on behalf of the list administrators. That is, he only communicated the decision of the list administrators and may not have directly participated in the discussion that resulted in the decision to moderate Dan. I am not sure this mailing list

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-09 Thread Todd Allen
Erm, wait. He said what, "fart"? It's not a particularly good look for a WMF employee to be moderating someone critiquing the WMF, especially when, while their statement may have been strongly worded, it used pretty mild language. This should either be undone, or at least decided upon by someone

[Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-09 Thread Asaf Bartov
Dear Wikimedians, List subscriber Dan Szymborski has been placed under moderation, due to posts with unacceptable language. I remind everyone that criticism is appropriate and welcome on this list, so long as it remains civil and respectful of the people involved. Asaf (volunteer capacity)

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice: Gerard Meijssen

2020-06-29 Thread Nathan
Asaf, Thank you for notifying the list. I have read Gerard's posts to this list since 2007, and it's a safe bet that his thousands of messages make him the single most prolific contributor to this list since it was created. I appreciate that the moderators felt compelled to act, but I find the

[Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice: Gerard Meijssen

2020-06-29 Thread Asaf Bartov
Dear list subscribers, In my volunteer capacity as list-admin, I write to let you know that subscriber Gerard Meijssen has been placed on indefinite moderation after making toxic comments to another subscriber, and failing to apologize for them after it was pointed out to him. Gerard had been

[Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-07-23 Thread Asaf Bartov
For transparency, note that Gerard Meijssen has been placed on moderation through Aug 31st, 2017, for repeated thread hijacking. As with all moderated users, respectful and on-topic messages by him would be let through to the list. A. ___

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-03-06 Thread Trillium Corsage
FYI, and to finish this matter off for the list: "Not on my watch. I have no access to past conversations so cannot comment on the conversation you say you have had with list admins in the past..." says Asaf. I furnished Asaf with verbatim copies of the relevant emails that he may be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-03-06 Thread Asaf Bartov
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:20 AM Trillium Corsage wrote: > >> As always, he is (and other > >> moderated users are) welcome to submit posts to the list before then, > and > >> if the posts are respectful and on-topic, they would be let through. > > That has not been my

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-03-01 Thread Asaf Bartov
As promised, Gerard has been unmoderated, FYI. A. On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:56 AM Asaf Bartov wrote: > It's okay that some people disagree with this moderation action (others > agree, even if they do not say so on-list). This list is not moderated by >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-13 Thread Asaf Bartov
It's okay that some people disagree with this moderation action (others agree, even if they do not say so on-list). This list is not moderated by whole-list-consensus. I have provided the reason for moderation, without going into details. To do so would be to invite drama, which moderation

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-13 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
There are words in other languages that have a rude, upleasant, disrespectful or pejorative meaning in British English. For an amusing list of examples, see the Oxford Dictionary blog at http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2016/02/words-that-sound-rude/ I presume that I'm entitled to be complain

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-13 Thread Florence Devouard
Same in French... Le 13/02/2017 à 12:35, John Erling Blad a écrit : It is common to refer to those that cooperated with the Nazis during WWII as "kollaboratører" (kollaborators) in Norwegian too. https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kollaborat%C3%B8r Translating between languages are fun! =) John

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-13 Thread John Erling Blad
It is common to refer to those that cooperated with the Nazis during WWII as "kollaboratører" (kollaborators) in Norwegian too. https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kollaborat%C3%B8r Translating between languages are fun! =) John 13. feb. 2017 09.08 skrev "Jane Darnell" : … The

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-13 Thread Jane Darnell
Believe me, I hear you! On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Austin Hair wrote: > On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Jane Darnell wrote: > > When I first read this I didn't think twice about it, because Gerard has > > often gone over the 30 message limit, so

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-13 Thread Romaine Wiki
Calling that anyone who does not want a banner = someone who does not care for our colleagues, is very very disrespectful. That is way beyond the line of what can be accepted. Romaine Op maandag 13 februari 2017 heeft Jane Darnell het volgende geschreven: > When I first

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-13 Thread Austin Hair
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Jane Darnell wrote: > When I first read this I didn't think twice about it, because Gerard has > often gone over the 30 message limit, so nothing new. But after reading > later comments I see that he was disrespectful? I don't think so. I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-13 Thread Jane Darnell
When I first read this I didn't think twice about it, because Gerard has often gone over the 30 message limit, so nothing new. But after reading later comments I see that he was disrespectful? I don't think so. I checked and indeed he didn't go over his limit in January. The only disrespectful

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-11 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 11 February 2017 at 21:18, Michael Peel wrote: >> asaf, you are one of the most respected dinosaurs in this universe, > Which species of dinosaur? Wikisourus, of course. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-11 Thread Michael Peel
> On 11 Feb 2017, at 19:08, rupert THURNER wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Asaf Bartov wrote: >> Hello, everyone. >> >> I share the opinion that moderation actions should be transparent. So: >> >> I have now placed Gerard Meijssen

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-11 Thread rupert THURNER
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Asaf Bartov wrote: > Hello, everyone. > > I share the opinion that moderation actions should be transparent. So: > > I have now placed Gerard Meijssen on moderation. He has been posting very > frequently to the list, far exceeding the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-11 Thread Peter Southwood
[mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Asaf Bartov Sent: Saturday, 11 February 2017 8:49 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice Hello, everyone. I share the opinion that moderation actions should be transparent. So: I have now placed Gerard

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-11 Thread John Erling Blad
Gerard, ... he has good points too, even if he is stubborn like a mule - like the rest og us! ;) 11. feb. 2017 19.49 skrev "Asaf Bartov" : > Hello, everyone. > > I share the opinion that moderation actions should be transparent. So: > > I have now placed Gerard Meijssen on

[Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2017-02-11 Thread Asaf Bartov
Hello, everyone. I share the opinion that moderation actions should be transparent. So: I have now placed Gerard Meijssen on moderation. He has been posting very frequently to the list, far exceeding the requested "soft limit" of 30 posts per month, and has exhibited disrespectful discourse. I