Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-08 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
The UNWTO report you link to refers to 1186M "torist arrivals". That is not the same as 1186M diffeent people. Did your correspondant explicitly address that difference, or are you assuming that every tourist makes just one trip abroad in a year, and if so, why, since it is patently not correct?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-08 Thread Zachary McCune
Hi all - Wanted to follow up on my message from last Thursday, March 2nd.[1] As detailed, we are making changes to the Annual Report site that should be reflected today.[2] Per suggestions we are exploring randomization of the facts displayed in the index page carousel. The ordering on the

[Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-08 Thread Stephen Philbrick
Three points: When I first saw the document, I was exceedingly unhappy, but fortuitously, I was unable to respond at the time due to RL travel. Fortuitous, because my writeup would have been a pale version of Risker's excellent response, so if anyone hasn't managed to read all the posts on this

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread James Salsman
Rogol Domedonfors wrote: > > Do you believe truth and accuracy are to be found only > at one ppint on the spectrum of political belief? There is a very strong correlation which has, since November, become much stronger. Compare for example: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread Peter Southwood
] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" We are not taking a stand in different positions each party is taking on economical matters. No one here wearing a donkey hat. Problem begins when a party takes inhumane stance, fighting against it should not be considered a political move. Trust

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread Peter Southwood
-Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Rogol Domedonfors Sent: Wednesday, 08 March 2017 9:20 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" James On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 7:10 AM,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread Amir Ladsgroup
We are not taking a stand in different positions each party is taking on economical matters. No one here wearing a donkey hat. Problem begins when a party takes inhumane stance, fighting against it should not be considered a political move. Trust me, that's exactly what happened in Iran. Best On

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
James On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 7:10 AM, you wrote: > > Do you think remaining politically neutral is compatible with > remaining accurate? > I would say yes. Let me put two converse questions to you. Do you believe truth and accuracy are to be found only at one ppint on the spectrum of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread James Salsman
Pine, Which facts do you think the "facts matter" theme should have emphasized? Do you think remaining politically neutral is compatible with remaining accurate? To what extent does staying focused on mission involve pointing out issues with freedom and accuracy in society, in your view? On

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread Pine W
Hi Heather, Thanks for commenting. The theme of "facts matter" seems good to me, and I generally like Victor's video. However, the way that this report comes across to me is that it advocates for certain points of view on issues which, however important they may be (I happen to think global

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread Leigh Thelmadatter
ent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 6:17:19 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Leigh Thelmadatter <osama...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Equally James, how is this advocacy "extremely hel

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread James Salsman
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Leigh Thelmadatter wrote: > > Equally James, how is this advocacy "extremely helpful"? How does it help the > building and maintainence of Wikimedia projects? How does it help the many > volunteers who work on these projects? Taking a stand

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread Heather Walls
Hello, This has become an interesting and important conversation. First, many thanks to everyone as they bring their intellect, experience, and thoughtfulness to this topic. And thanks to Zack for many months of work organizing a complex project, with a theme that became increasingly sensitive

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread Leigh Thelmadatter
rg> on behalf of James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 4:53:29 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" Yair, Would you please explain what you mean by damaging? > To have a huge banner place

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread James Salsman
Yair, Would you please explain what you mean by damaging? > To have a huge banner placed over every article on > the whole project linking to 43px-font blatant political > advocacy which can't be reverted, is really damaging. My opinion remains that 43pt blatant advocacy in support of both

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-07 Thread Yair Rand
Risker has outlined many of the issues with the report much better than I would have been able to. While I'm happy to hear there will be some reordering and that one of the images will be replaced, the report still has many very serious problems. How can we fix this? I can think of a few options:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-05 Thread Pine W
Andrew, I somewhat agree. This is a discussion list. The people who are here tend to be especially well-informed, and discussions can be very informative and useful. RfCs and surveys have their own limitations, so getting a "representative slice of community sentiment" is a bit of a challenge,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-05 Thread Andrew Lih
On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 3:46 AM, George William Herbert < george.herb...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think that the idea of taking the weekend off from the topic is > excellent. We may not have reached universal consensus yet but everything > we needed to have said was, and it's been acknowledged as

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-04 Thread Anna Stillwell
You're welcome, Rogol. Smiley face, /a On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Rogol Domedonfors wrote: > Anna > > Thanks. > > "Rogol" > > On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Anna Stillwell > wrote: > > > Hey Rogol, > > I think Zach's email (above / March

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-04 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Anna Thanks. "Rogol" On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Anna Stillwell wrote: > Hey Rogol, > I think Zach's email (above / March 2nd) describes the changes. > /a > > On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Rogol Domedonfors > wrote: > > > Anna > > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-04 Thread Anna Stillwell
Hey Rogol, I think Zach's email (above / March 2nd) describes the changes. /a On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Rogol Domedonfors wrote: > Anna > > I'm glad to hear that everything is all right and that you don't need our > help after all. When you return from your break,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-04 Thread David Gerard
Herbert >> Sent: Saturday, 04 March 2017 10:47 AM >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" >> >> I think that the idea of taking the weekend off from the topic is >> excellent. We may not have reached

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-04 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Pine We were asked for help. I posted a message asking how we could help in this process. We got a reply saying the process "already took place". I interpret that as meaning that our help is not needed after all. Perhaps you read it differently. I don't think that makes my response, or yours

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-04 Thread Ido ivri
- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of George William Herbert > Sent: Saturday, 04 March 2017 10:47 AM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" > > I thin

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-04 Thread Peter Southwood
-Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of George William Herbert Sent: Saturday, 04 March 2017 10:47 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" I think that the idea

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-04 Thread George William Herbert
I think that the idea of taking the weekend off from the topic is excellent. We may not have reached universal consensus yet but everything we needed to have said was, and it's been acknowledged as received and under consideration. Have a good weekend everyone. -george Sent from my iPhone

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-04 Thread Craig Franklin
On 4 March 2017 at 18:38, Pine W wrote: > It seems to me that Anna is interested in improving the situation rather > than having a battle with the community. I'd like to let the improvement > process happen. Please have some patience, and let's be grateful that WMF > is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-04 Thread Pine W
Rogol, I don't get the impression that Anna's position is that "everything is all right and that (WMF doesn't) need our help after all". That comment comes across to me as inflammatory and unhelpful. It seems to me that Anna is interested in improving the situation rather than having a battle

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-03 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Anna I'm glad to hear that everything is all right and that you don't need our help after all. When you return from your break, it would be of value to the community for you to let them know what those "actual changes" were. That way we can help you even better next time. "Rogol" On Sat, Mar

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-03 Thread Anna Stillwell
Hello Rogol, I think the process on this particular count already took place. We wrote a report in good faith. We responded to critique in good faith. We're making actual changes in good faith. Have a lovely weekend. I really need a break. Warmly, /a On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Rogol

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-03 Thread Dan Andreescu
I want to express respect for this discussion and re-iterate two favorite points: Erik says: "I haven't done an extensive survey, but I suspect all the major Wikipedia languages largely agree in their presentation on climate change. If so, that is itself a notable fact, given the amount of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-03 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Anna, On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:46 AM, you wrote: > [...] > And I'm struggling with a process problem (not one of substance) that I > don't know how to solve. I truly don't. And it's kind of killing me. > > We (people who work and volunteer at the WMF) need a way to get feedback. > We need a way

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-03 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
inion or advocacy” [1], why not show it off? > > > > > > > > In any case, it helps to reiterate that “Articles must not take > sides, > > > but > > > > should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This > > appli

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-03 Thread Chris Keating
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 4:49 AM, Peter Southwood < peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > If the format was compiled before Trump was elected, then this argument is > either irrelevant or becomes that the foundation must avoid offending > politicians in power by changing public statements to be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Gerard Meijssen
[1] https://annual.wikimedia.org/2016/jimmy-wales-letter.html > > > [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view > (“this > > > page in a nutshell”) > > > > > > > On Mar 2, 2017, at 8:30 AM, Peter Southwood < > > > peter.so

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Peter Southwood
2017 8:22 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" Please Peter. If the WMF was based in either of those places, it would be a very different organization. And in neither case would it be focusing its annual report on some other

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Risker
Well, Erik...I really don't think my personal beliefs have a role in this discussion, except as they very narrowly apply to the Wikimedia mission, vision and "values". That's actually one of my issues with this report - it reads as though it's been written by a bunch of well-paid, talented people

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Risker
g > Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 7:47 AM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" > > On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Peter Southwood < > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > If the format was com

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Peter Southwood
To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Peter Southwood <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > If the format was compiled before Trump was elected, then this argument is > either irrelevant or becomes th

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread John Mark Vandenberg
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Peter Southwood wrote: > If the format was compiled before Trump was elected, then this argument is > either irrelevant or becomes that the foundation must avoid offending > politicians in power by changing public statements to be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Peter Southwood
Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 2:46 AM, Anna Stillwell <astillw...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I want to thank everyone for offering their considered thoughts. I > mean that genuinely. The

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Peter Southwood
: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris Keating Sent: Friday, March 3, 2017 12:34 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" So my 2p: The issue for me is the selection of topics more than the pr

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread George William Herbert
I agree with Pine's comments. Lots of good things happening and great content, and that should not be minimized in all this. If I left that impression then my apologies to the content creators and annual report staff on those points. -george Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 2, 2017, at 5:10

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Nathan
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 2:46 AM, Anna Stillwell wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I want to thank everyone for offering their considered thoughts. I mean > that genuinely. There are many legitimate views expressed in this thread, > many by generous, constructive, wise, and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Samuel Klein
or advocacy” [1], why not show it off? > > > > > > > > In any case, it helps to reiterate that “Articles must not take > sides, > > > but > > > > should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This > > applies > > > > to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Pine W
Hi Eric, Speaking generally, I think that telling stories about Wikimedia content and platforms, and how content is created, delivered, or used, are all likely to be compatible with WMF's mission when the stories are written in an NPOV way. I must have missed the link to Andreas' arctic

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Erik Moeller
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Stuart Prior wrote: > As an example, anthropogenic climate change is a politically sensitive > issue, but how can a consensus-driven movement not take into account that > 97% of climate scientists acknowledge its existence > ? > [1]

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Jytdog at Wikipedia
e that is "there when you need factual > > > > information, not opinion or advocacy” [1], why not show it off? > > > > > > > > In any case, it helps to reiterate that “Articles must not take > sides, > > > but > > > > should explain the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Zachary McCune
al_point_of_view > (“this > > > page in a nutshell”) > > > > > > > On Mar 2, 2017, at 8:30 AM, Peter Southwood < > > > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > It is not possible to get away from politics while remaining i

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Leila Zia
wrote: > > > > > > It is not possible to get away from politics while remaining in contact > > with civilisation. Politics follows you around. It is possible to ignore > > politics only until they affect you directly. > > > Cheers, > > > Peter > > > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Chris Keating
So my 2p: The issue for me is the selection of topics more than the presentation of each topic. I'm not concerned that the document's written differently and with different standards of sourcing to a Wikipedia article. That's fairly natural. But selecting 2x refugees and climate change in a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Tilman Bayer
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 4:33 AM, WereSpielChequers < werespielchequ...@gmail.com> wrote: > Otherwise, I haven't fact checked the whole thing, but one problem with the > second sentence: > > > *Across the world, mobile pageviews to our free knowledge websites > increased by 170 million

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Peter Southwood
: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" On Mar 2, 2017, at 11:13 AM, James Salsman <jsals...@gmail.com> wrote: >> politics damages our brand in real and serious ways. > > Such as how? This assertion keeps being made without any evidence supporting > it. > &g

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Gerard Meijssen
; > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of WereSpielChequers > > Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 2:33 PM > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread James Salsman
>>> It's more ammunition for everyone else's distrust and fear of our community >>> and organizational motives. >> >> Are there any actual reasons to believe that such distrust and fear >> exists apart from those upset about being on the losing end of some >> Wikipedia content dispute? > > Surely

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Stuart Prior
​My 2¢​ The avoidance of politically sensitive issues is not the same as being politically neutral. Political neutrality isn’t about shifting your politics to wherever your local Overton window currently sits. It involves a longer, broader, global view of what accepted political norms are.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread George William Herbert
On Mar 2, 2017, at 11:13 AM, James Salsman wrote: >> politics damages our brand in real and serious ways. > > Such as how? This assertion keeps being made without any evidence supporting > it. > >> It's more ammunition for everyone else's distrust and fear of our

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Perhaps we could refer this question to the Advancement department. Does appealing for money for one thing and spending it on another damage the Foundation's ability to raise funds in the future? On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:13 PM, James Salsman wrote: > > politics damages our

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread James Salsman
> politics damages our brand in real and serious ways. Such as how? This assertion keeps being made without any evidence supporting it. > It's more ammunition for everyone else's distrust and fear of our community > and organizational motives. Are there any actual reasons to believe that such

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread George William Herbert
> On Mar 2, 2017, at 9:22 AM, David Gerard wrote: > > I note this discussion is leaning "I totally am not offended myself, > but unspecified others might be." I think some posters need to own > their own discomfort more. > > The trouble with liberality is a tendency to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread David Gerard
On 2 March 2017 at 12:07, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote: > This WMF Annual Report has imho a obvious political connotation. Wikimedia > should remain politically neutral in any regard. WP:POV; In 2017, literally the concept of factual information is an active matter of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Florence Devouard
l From: Florence Devouard <fdevou...@gmail.com> Date: Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 1:08 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Le 02/03/2017 à 01:15, Erik Moeller a écrit : On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Florence Devouard &

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Mz7 Wikipedia
affect you directly. > Cheers, > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf > Of WereSpielChequers > Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 2:33 PM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Gordon Joly
On 02/03/17 13:55, David Gerard wrote: > There is no such thing as "no politics", there is only "I am not > personally reminded of the discomfort of others". > > > - d. Channelling Margaret Thatcher, David? :-) Gordo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Gordon Joly
On 02/03/17 13:30, Peter Southwood wrote: > It is not possible to get away from politics while remaining in contact with > civilisation. >Politics follows you around. It is possible to ignore politics only until they affect you directly. > Cheers, > Peter The real world (laws and customs) has

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Vi to
In short, wiki projects existence itself is a political act. Furthermore, it's a "liberal" (in wide sense) political act: you may attribute values as free and universal access to knowledge to various political factions, but these values are the founding principle of this virtual place. Also, even

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread David Gerard
On 2 March 2017 at 13:30, Peter Southwood wrote: > It is not possible to get away from politics while remaining in contact with > civilisation. Politics follows you around. It is possible to ignore politics > only until they affect you directly. Well, yes. Who

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Peter Southwood
...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of WereSpielChequers Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 2:33 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" Like SJ I love the imagery and and style. As for the rest, I come here to get away from politics, so it is a little unsettl

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread WereSpielChequers
write the next version of this. WereSpielChequers > > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 00:51:04 -0500 > From: Risker <risker...@gmail.com> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More pol

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Steinsplitter Wiki
gt; Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. März 2017 21:15 An: Wikimedia Mailing List Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" I didn't see the banner, but the page definitely looks... 'funny'. I'm especially confused on what the purpose of the campaign/page is, even after reading

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Steinsplitter Wiki
orence Devouard <fdevou...@gmail.com> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. März 2017 00:44 An: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" I must say I also find the political message behind this a bit too heavy. It lets me a bit unconfortable. T

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread George William Herbert
> On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:14 AM, James Salsman wrote: > > On the contrary, the left-wing is the only source of credible, > trustworthy, and bias-free information on a wide variety of topics > such as climate change. Equating neutrality with credibility and > trustworthiness

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Craig Franklin
I just wanted to add one last thing; thanks to Zachary McCune as well for coming and engaging with the community on this. I imagine that it may have felt like marching into the jaws of the beast to come and deal with the criticism, so I have to give him much respect for coming and engaging. I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread James Salsman
> Refugees ... don't have anything to do with the WMF Someone forgot to tell that to the Foundation volunteers working on https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/12/24/refugee-phrasebook/ which is directly linked from that section of the Annual Report. > messages like this "empower" only those who

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Craig Franklin
Hi Anna, Thanks for offering your thoughts on this (and I mean that sincerely). Lord knows that sometimes the temperature on this list and in other venues rises to a point where no communication of substance can occur, and all that is achieved is that everyone walks away with bruised egos and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread George William Herbert
My two cents. I agree with the sentiments in the statement/report. I don't feel comfortable seeing them from the WMF. I would not be comfortable seeing them from a PBS mission statement or report, a Humane Society report, the Red Cross, ... ok, the ACLU has about said as much. But I feel

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-02 Thread Anna Stillwell
Pine, You and I have a call scheduled and we can begin to think together on this issue. Thank you. /a On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 11:58 PM, Pine W wrote: > Hi Anna, > > Thanks for chiming in. > > As someone who is personally feeling a lot of strain between myself and WMF > --

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Pine W
Hi Anna, Thanks for chiming in. As someone who is personally feeling a lot of strain between myself and WMF -- and I think I'm not the only one -- I would like to figure out how to do something so that all of us can get on with mission-aligned work instead of having conversations about what's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Anna Stillwell
Hello everybody, I want to thank everyone for offering their considered thoughts. I mean that genuinely. There are many legitimate views expressed in this thread, many by generous, constructive, wise, and delightful members of our communities. That's good. And I'm struggling with a process

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Pine W
Hi Rogol, While the values changed, my understanding is that the mission statement did not. I think that the entirety of the values statement is educational read ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Values/2016_discussion/Synthesis), and I mean that mostly in a positive way. I am OK with the new

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Peter Southwood
: Thursday, 02 March 2017 9:23 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" Pine, Recall that the Foundation have rewritten their values to include "we seek to continually improve ourselves, our projects, our communities, our worl

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
Pine, Recall that the Foundation have rewritten their values to include "we seek to continually improve ourselves, our projects, our communities, our world.", see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Values/2016_discussion/Synthesis The previous version

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Pine W
I've written several drafts today in response to this thread, all of which came out as as rather energetic. There are some reputable organizations for which I like and for which the tone of the "main page" of this report would be appropriate. WMF is not one of them. I would ask the people who

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Peter Southwood
Agree that citations are needed. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Risker Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2017 7:51 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report&q

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Visiting the United States is no longer an option for many people. The current situation is absolutely not only about immigration it is also about visiting. When a nationalised person of Iranian ancestry has family in Iran. Can he or she still visit his family and come back? Can his family

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Risker
Okay, so I'll say what Sam said, except in stronger language, and with some additional emphasis. This is a very obviously liberally biased document -- and I say that as someone who lives in a country so liberal that it makes Californians look like they're still back in the early 1960s. Maybe it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Please explain.. To me it is not politica but Common sense. Thanks, GerardM Op wo 1 mrt. 2017 om 22:18 schreef Rogol Domedonfors It seems to be in line with the new Values statement: "we seek to continually improve ourselves, our projects, our communities,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Samuel Klein
Dear reporters, I really like the streamlined layout, the background video and the non-linear presentation online. Lovely work; you are wonderful. > If the photo remains, I recommend changing this caption to use either > "travel ban" or "entry ban"; both phrases are used in the Wikipedia >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Craig Franklin
Indeed, I have to agree too. I don't disagree with the notion that the themes covered (providing educational materials to vulnerable young people, providing our information in many languages, and are important, but the way they come across is pretty preachy and overtly political. We're not here

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Zachary McCune
article/2017/02/28/lutte-contre-les-fausses-informations-le-monde-partenaire-du-projet-crosscheck_5086731_4355770.html > From: Florence Devouard <fdevou...@gmail.com> > Date: Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 1:08 AM > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report" >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Florence Devouard
Le 02/03/2017 à 01:15, Erik Moeller a écrit : On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Florence Devouard wrote: For example... the message "one in six people visited another country in 2016"... illustrated by "SeaTac Airport protest against immigration ban. Sit-in blocking arrival

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Michael Peel
Why should that feature in the WMF's annual report, though? I also agree that this has been over-politicised, whether intentionally or not. :-( Thanks, Mike > On 1 Mar 2017, at 21:13, Dan Rosenthal wrote: > > Florence -- Trump's executive orders also involved the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Erik Moeller
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Florence Devouard wrote: > For example... the message "one in six people visited another country in > 2016"... illustrated by "SeaTac Airport protest against immigration ban. > Sit-in blocking arrival gates until 12 detainees at Sea-Tac are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Dan Rosenthal
Florence -- Trump's executive orders also involved the revocation of non-immigrant visas. I don't think the choice of picture is inappropriate at all. In fact, I think it highlights just how poorly planned and executed the executive order was in the first place. Whether the sitenotice is a good

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Leigh Thelmadatter
Yair is right because messages like this "empower" only those who agree with them. Taking sides in the name of the Foundation, which has the money and therefore power, is not inclusive. Sent from my iPhone > On 01/03/2017, at 12:58 p.m., Yair Rand wrote: > > An

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Nathan
It's an unambiguously political statement. Not political in the sense of "everything we do is political" - but in the sense of opposing the policies of a single national government as promulgated by a head of state and supported by one political party in a deeply polarized and contentious

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Florence Devouard
I must say I also find the political message behind this a bit too heavy. It lets me a bit unconfortable. That most of the themes reported here are not Mr Trump cup of tea is quite obvious. That the whole page is a message against the president, I get it. But in some cases, I think it is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Rogol Domedonfors
It seems to be in line with the new Values statement: "we seek to continually improve ourselves, our projects, our communities, our world". Of course that's political. "Rogol" On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 8:15 PM, Lodewijk wrote: > I didn't see the banner, but the page

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Lodewijk
I didn't see the banner, but the page definitely looks... 'funny'. I'm especially confused on what the purpose of the campaign/page is, even after reading the different sections. It mostly feels either like a political statement about refugees (which takes very clearly center stage) or an

Re: [Wikimedia-l] More politics: "WMF Annual Report"

2017-03-01 Thread Joseph Seddon
Hi James. You can find out more about the Endowment here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Endowment Seddon On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 7:54 PM, James Salsman wrote: > The statements Yair quoted are appropriate unless you believe > "empower" in the Foundation's Mission

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