Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-09-24 Thread Richard Farmbrough
Free speech in the US is, I believe, generally considered to exclude both fighting words and shouting fire in a crowded theatre. On 20/09/2012 04:56, Fred Bauder wrote: I think any laws should be couched in terms of damaging foreign relations or inciting to riot. I'm not sure they would be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-09-20 Thread geni
On 20 September 2012 04:56, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: I have never understood anyone who thinks that showing contempt for the Prophet was a smart thing to do. Only great evil comes from it. Not great spiritual trouble or lightning bolts from God; I'm not superstitious, but

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-09-19 Thread Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: But that is not all. The most important issue is extremism. According to the bill, the materials, that are banned for distribution in Russia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-09-19 Thread Fred Bauder
Well, the new law is now being considered for application to block YouTube in Russia. Make of that, what you will. http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19648808 Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]] I have never understood anyone who thinks that showing contempt for the Prophet

[Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-18 Thread abi yoyo
Tim Starling wrote: According to ru.wp Arbcom member DR, the danger to Wikipedia was overstated, and the text of the proposed law was misrepresented. I think that the interpretation to the bill given by DR is incorrect. In fact the proposed bill was not only about child pornography and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-18 Thread Milos Rancic
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: But that is not all. The most important issue is extremism. According to the bill, the materials, that are banned for distribution in Russia should be included to the register of banned information on the ground of the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-18 Thread Fred Bauder
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: But that is not all. The most important issue is extremism. According to the bill, the materials, that are banned for distribution in Russia should be included to the register of banned information on the ground of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-17 Thread MZMcBride
Fred Bauder wrote: It remains possible, due to the nature of the Russian government and the pressures of the opposition on it, that reading between the lines and coming to the conclusion they did was justified. What the Russian government might consider extremist and necessary to suppress is

[Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-13 Thread abi yoyo
Greetings to all and thanks for the support of our initiative. I am one of the three ru-wikipedia users, who signed the decision under the poll to blackout ru-wiki. We have a really nasty bill, that is already passed by the Russian parliament. The bill contains a real and an unequivocal

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Mike Godwin
Anthony writes: I wonder if the WMF will shut down in protest should one of the proposals to amend the constitution to overturn Citizens United gain traction in Congress. I'm not speaking for WMF, but I don't see the connection here. Wikimedia Foundation, as a corporation, is profoundly

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Thomas Morton
On 12 July 2012 10:27, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 July 2012 08:47, Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com wrote: At the heart of the Wikipedia/Wikimedia projects' success is democratic action, driven by those who are engaged in the process of promoting, supporting, and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:47 AM, Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com wrote: Anthony writes: I wonder if the WMF will shut down in protest should one of the proposals to amend the constitution to overturn Citizens United gain traction in Congress. I'm not speaking for WMF, but I don't see the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Mike Godwin
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: I'm not speaking for WMF, but I don't see the connection here. The connection is free speech. Analytically, however, the issue raised by Citizens United is not simply an issue of free speech. It centers on the precise question

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:16 AM, Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: I'm not speaking for WMF, but I don't see the connection here. The connection is free speech. Analytically, however, the issue raised by Citizens United

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Mike Godwin
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: Analytically, however, the issue raised by Citizens United is not simply an issue of free speech. It centers on the precise question of what role corporate expenditures can play in elections. The law in question was with

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Mike Godwin
I wrote: 'I'm entirely comfortable with The New York Times Company (a corporation) and its efforts to influence the outcome of elections (e.g., through candidate endorsements; I wouldn't want to prohibit The New York Times Company from political speech.' That paragraph got truncated through an

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:34:46 -0400, Nathan wrote: Is there a service provider exemption for entities like Wikimedia in Russia? Not that I know of. Is it possible that making the Russian Wikipedia inaccessible for a period in order to protest a Russian law might be considered political

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Andreas Kolbe
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 12:35 AM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.orgwrote: On 11/07/12 00:32, David Gerard wrote: On 10 July 2012 15:29, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote: SOPA didn't threaten the existence of Wikipedia, Geoff Brigham opined otherwise, IIRC. Yes, on the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Mike Godwin
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: You specifically contrasted regulations as a corporation with regulations by virtue of its being a nonprofit corporation. I responded to both. You then quoted my response to the first, with information with respect to the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Milos Rancic
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Is there a service provider exemption for entities like Wikimedia in Russia? Is it possible that making the Russian Wikipedia inaccessible for a period in order to protest a Russian law might be considered political activism in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Anthony
As for WMF's tax status, I'm not going to talk about that -- I simply pointed out that 501(c) organizations are regulated. 501(c) *is a tax status*. 501(c)(3) is a subset of that tax status. So? I gave you pointers to regs for 501(c)(3), (c)(4), etc. Well, no, you didn't. But I know where

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Mike Godwin
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: So? I gave you pointers to regs for 501(c)(3), (c)(4), etc. Well, no, you didn't. I think most people will agree that I did give you pointers to the regs. I agree that I did not give you direct links to the regs. Perhaps you

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-12 Thread Mike Godwin
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: Okay. Is there something in those regs which regulates what WMF can and cannot do politically? All I see is regulations stating that WMF may be taxed based on what is does. I'm afraid I don't understand the distinction

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:07:48 +0200, Milos Rancic wrote: On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 5:41 AM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, very encouraging. We should suggest to the various language Wikipedias that they monitor laws in their home country, and each time one is considered (or even proposed!)

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread David Gerard
On 11 July 2012 08:07, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 5:41 AM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, very encouraging. We should suggest to the various language Wikipedias that they monitor laws in their home country, and each time one is considered (or even

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Milos Rancic
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:20 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: No, no, you don't understand: *my* politics are the neutral baseline, *your* politics are weird and radical. Yep, I forgot it. BTW, note the comments below RIA Novosti news on Russian Wikipedia strike [1]. That baseline

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Nikola Smolenski
On 11/07/12 09:40, Milos Rancic wrote: Yep, I forgot it. BTW, note the comments below RIA Novosti news on Russian Wikipedia strike [1]. That baseline fluctuates a lot :) [1] http://en.ria.ru/society/20120710/174509543.html By the way, Western media are spinning this to be an anti-Putin

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:47:25 +0200, Nikola Smolenski wrote: On 11/07/12 09:40, Milos Rancic wrote: Yep, I forgot it. BTW, note the comments below RIA Novosti news on Russian Wikipedia strike [1]. That baseline fluctuates a lot :) [1] http://en.ria.ru/society/20120710/174509543.html By the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Fred Bauder
Try http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/10/russian-wikipedia-shut-down-protest?INTCMP=SRCH It is quite possible, as in China, political censorship is the actual purpose, and pornography, and whatever, is just the excuse. Fred On 11/07/12 09:40, Milos Rancic wrote: Yep, I forgot it. BTW,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Yann Forget
2012/7/11 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: On 11 July 2012 08:57, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: It is quite possible, as in China, political censorship is the actual purpose, and pornography, and whatever, is just the excuse. Censoring porn is *always* a stalking horse for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Milos Rancic
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: Milos, do you have any evidence that what you have written is correct? Just a single fact? So far the law was accepted in the second reading basically unchanged, and is currently undergoing the third reading (which is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:21:26 +0200, Milos Rancic wrote: On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: Milos, do you have any evidence that what you have written is correct? Just a single fact? So far the law was accepted in the second reading basically

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Виктория
Milos, BTW, 292:22 doesn't look like a lack of participation nor as a lack of consensus. And the actions which affect the real world have their right time, unlike building the knowledge. Did you count how many of thsee 292 votes, especially among the last couple of hundred, have a right for RFA

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Nikola Smolenski
On 11/07/12 09:57, Fred Bauder wrote: Try http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/10/russian-wikipedia-shut-down-protest?INTCMP=SRCH It is quite possible, as in China, political censorship is the actual purpose, and pornography, and whatever, is just the excuse. Yes, but this has nothing to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:02 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 10 July 2012 09:22, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.com wrote: On 9 July 2012 20:41, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: In less than half an hour Russian Wikipedia will go on one-day strike against

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 13:23:22 +0200, Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote: Ok, let me may be provide a bit of a background. 1) The law is formally directed against child pornography, drug trafficking, hate between religions etc. The idea is that every website (whatever it means) where information

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: The law just passed the third reading without any changes. It has to be now signed by the president and will be enforced in the present form on November 1, 2012. So is this going to shut down Russian Wikipedia? I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-11 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:14:48 -0400, Anthony wrote: On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: The law just passed the third reading without any changes. It has to be now signed by the president and will be enforced in the present form on November 1, 2012.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Milos Rancic
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:58 AM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, I'll bite. This is just my opinion and based on SOPA in the United States and what our government represents. Thanks! I am responding as a non-cognitivist moral skeptic nihilist. We have freedoms and we have

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Keegan Peterzell
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.comwrote: Neither Anonymous, neither Arab Spring would happen without Wikipedia. I think you meant without the technology and concept that we can be connected as humans all the time. We can trace these happenings back to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Milos Rancic
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.comwrote: Neither Anonymous, neither Arab Spring would happen without Wikipedia. I think you meant without the technology and concept that we

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Keegan Peterzell
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 1:16 AM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks! I am responding as a non-cognitivist moral skeptic nihilist. CAUTION: HUMOR! Nice marmot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L2qP-xQ_7o -- ~Keegan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Milos Rancic
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 1:16 AM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks! I am responding as a non-cognitivist moral skeptic nihilist. CAUTION: HUMOR! Nice marmot.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Keegan Peterzell
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 1:18 AM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.comwrote: Neither Anonymous, neither Arab Spring would happen

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Przykuta
Neither Anonymous, neither Arab Spring would happen without Wikipedia. I think you meant without the technology and concept that we can be connected as humans all the time. We can trace these happenings back to the telegraph and radio, or even the bold idea of the ink and paper.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Nikola Smolenski
On 10/07/12 08:16, Milos Rancic wrote: On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:58 AM, Keegan Peterzellkeegan.w...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, I'll bite. This is just my opinion and based on SOPA in the United States and what our government represents. Thanks! I am responding as a non-cognitivist moral skeptic

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Thomas Morton
On 9 July 2012 20:41, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: In less than half an hour Russian Wikipedia will go on one-day strike against SOPA/PIPA-like law in Russia [1] (in Russian). Unless I am missing something key; whilst this is a crappy law, it is not much like SOPA/PIPA in that it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread David Gerard
On 10 July 2012 09:22, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.com wrote: On 9 July 2012 20:41, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: In less than half an hour Russian Wikipedia will go on one-day strike against SOPA/PIPA-like law in Russia [1] (in Russian). Unless I am missing something key;

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 09:22:12 +0100, Thomas Morton wrote: On 9 July 2012 20:41, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: In less than half an hour Russian Wikipedia will go on one-day strike against SOPA/PIPA-like law in Russia [1] (in Russian). Unless I am missing something key; whilst this

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Keegan Peterzell
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 3:30 AM, Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs wrote: I have to say, your comment reads like empty philosophizing. You are like a person who doesn't have children because he is worried about overpopulation - when it is exactly the people who are intelligent and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Nikola Smolenski
On 10/07/12 15:45, Keegan Peterzell wrote: They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~ Benjamin Franklin The blackout was exactly the opposite. A little temporary (one day) safety (all the content was still available at

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread David Gerard
On 10 July 2012 15:29, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote: SOPA didn't threaten the existence of Wikipedia, Geoff Brigham opined otherwise, IIRC. - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Milos Rancic
It looks like we won again. Communication Minister Nikolai Nikiforov was also negative about the current version of the bill, but was more relaxed about the possible outcomes. “I don’t support Wiki’s contention that it would be closed down. But this step is an important reaction by society, a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-10 Thread Tim Starling
On 11/07/12 00:32, David Gerard wrote: On 10 July 2012 15:29, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote: SOPA didn't threaten the existence of Wikipedia, Geoff Brigham opined otherwise, IIRC. Yes, on the basis that Wikipedia arguably falls under the definition of an 'Internet search

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-09 Thread Lucas Teles
is that. [1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Romka3003 Regards, Teles From: salvadore...@hotmail.com To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:17:37 +0300 Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike I've left a note on pt.wikipedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-09 Thread MZMcBride
Milos Rancic wrote: In less than half an hour Russian Wikipedia will go on one-day strike against SOPA/PIPA-like law in Russia. As in previous cases with Italian and English Wikipedia, it would be good if the wider community would be activated in support of our fellow Wikimedians. They need

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-09 Thread Keegan Peterzell
On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 11:47 PM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:44 AM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.com wrote: When the government wants your library records, do you protest by closing the library? No. You still let people in so that they can learn.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-09 Thread Milos Rancic
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:51 AM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.com wrote: I'll explain my perspective on Saturday at the SOPA panel for Wikimania. It's very tl;dr. I'm sure it will be put online :) Come on, I won't listen it for sure. But if you write it here, I could read it :)

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-09 Thread Milos Rancic
Just a couple of words for those who don't understand... Writing encyclopedia produces responsibility. Neither Anonymous, neither Arab Spring would happen without Wikipedia. A person has to be very miserable not to understand that; and not to take its own responsibility.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia goes on strike

2012-07-09 Thread Keegan Peterzell
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 12:22 AM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: Just a couple of words for those who don't understand... Writing encyclopedia produces responsibility. Neither Anonymous, neither Arab Spring would happen without Wikipedia. A person has to be very miserable not to