Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-31 Thread mathieu stumpf guntz
Hi James, I fail to see the relation between Erik message and you answer. I have huge doubt that Mandarin will eclipse English anytime soon. Despite the Confucius institutes growing everywhere in the world, as far as my narrow knowledge of the world goes, PRC doesn't seem to aim exporting

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-27 Thread James Salsman
Hi Erik, I get the feeling you would question my identity if I didn't follow up by asking you whether they asked you to endorse the possibility that Mandarin could eclipse English? Best regards, James On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 1:47 AM, Erik Moeller wrote: > On Fri, Oct 20,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-25 Thread Samuel Klein
> > (Oddly enough, I am more likely to read a Wikipedia article > from beginning to end if I'm looking something up on the Kindle, while I'm > reading a book.) > There's definitely some appetite for [WP-branded and -supported!] reading and research devices tuned for this sort of work: hyperlinked

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-25 Thread Toby Negrin
Hi everybody -- I just wanted to follow up quickly that this report has been published and is available here: > I know that some folks were wondering about all the consultation comments > about features, interfaces, and product improvements that didn't get > incorporated into the strategy. We

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-22 Thread Erik Moeller
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > I think it would be good to do some legal work to gain that clarity. The > Amazon Echo issue, with the Echo potentially using millions of words from > Wikipedia without any kind of attribution and indication of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-22 Thread James Salsman
On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 4:11 AM, Erik Moeller wrote: > On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 12:51 AM, James Salsman wrote: >> Should interactive web, internet of things, or offline services >> relying on Foundation encyclopedia CC-BY-SA content be required to >>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-20 Thread Erik Moeller
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 12:51 AM, James Salsman wrote: > Erik, > > Should interactive web, internet of things, or offline services > relying on Foundation encyclopedia CC-BY-SA content be required to > attribute authorship by specifying the revision date from which the >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-20 Thread Andreas Kolbe
Hi Katherine, On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Katherine Maher wrote: > 2017-10-09 17:44 GMT-07:00 Erik Moeller : > > > > With an eye to 2030 and WMF's long-term direction, I do think it's > > worth thinking about Wikidata's centrality, and I would

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-20 Thread Andreas Kolbe
Hi Erik, More good points here. On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Erik Moeller wrote: > > With regard to the issue of citations, it's worth noting that it's > already possible to _conditionally_ load data from Wikidata, excluding > information that is unsourced or only

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-20 Thread Peter Southwood
Of Lodewijk Sent: Friday, 20 October 2017 7:51 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25) Thanks for the response, Katherine. I'm a little concerned that we can have such "v

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-20 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
Hello Lodewijk, no, you are certainly not alone in your concerns. It looks like at this stage there is little we can do, and the only option left is to not endorse the document. Cheers Yaroslav On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 7:51 PM, Lodewijk wrote: > Thanks for the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-20 Thread Lodewijk
Thanks for the response, Katherine. I'm a little concerned that we can have such "vastly different" interpretations of the same text. I tried to get some Wikimedians to give me their take-away, and have not gotten a consistent direction from those. What I mostly remember after reading your

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-20 Thread Katherine Maher
Hi all, Sorry for the delay in chiming in. It's been a busy few weeks, and while I haven't made a public update about strategy in a while, work has been continuing! We've now closed Phase 1, and we're heading into Phase 2, in which our objective is to start thinking about how we make the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-20 Thread James Salsman
Erik, Should interactive web, internet of things, or offline services relying on Foundation encyclopedia CC-BY-SA content be required to attribute authorship by specifying the revision date from which the transluded content is derived? On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Erik Moeller

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-12 Thread Erik Moeller
On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 7:31 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > Wikidata has its own problems in that regard that have triggered ongoing > discussions and concerns on the English Wikipedia.[1] Tensions between different communities with overlapping but non-identical objectives are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-10 Thread Andreas Kolbe
Hi Erik, Really meaty post. Great stuff. Comments below. On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:44 AM, Erik Moeller wrote: > On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > > > ... and it will all become one free mush everyone copies to make a buck. > We >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-10 Thread Andreas Kolbe
On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 9:43 AM, James Salsman wrote: > On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Leinonen Teemu > wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > This is super interesting and important discussion. One idea. > > > >> On 10 Oct 2017, at 3.44, Erik Moeller

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-10 Thread Chris Keating
On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:44 AM, Erik Moeller wrote: > > I wouldn't call information from Wikimedia projects a "mush", but I > think it's a good term for the proprietary amalgamation of information > and data from many sources, often without any regard for the > reliability

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-10 Thread James Salsman
On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Leinonen Teemu wrote: > Hi all, > > This is super interesting and important discussion. One idea. > >> On 10 Oct 2017, at 3.44, Erik Moeller wrote: >> And for most of the sources amalgamated in this manner, if

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-10 Thread Leinonen Teemu
Hi all, This is super interesting and important discussion. One idea. > On 10 Oct 2017, at 3.44, Erik Moeller wrote: > And for most of the sources amalgamated in this manner, if provenance > is indicated at all, we don't find any of the safeguards we have for > Wikimedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-09 Thread Erik Moeller
On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > ... and it will all become one free mush everyone copies to make a buck. We > are already in a situation today where anyone asking Siri, the Amazon Echo, > Google or Bing about a topic is likely to get the same answer

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-07 Thread Andreas Kolbe
Hi Erik, Nice to hear from you. On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:48 PM, Erik Moeller wrote: > > The power of an open, nonprofit approach to "knowledge as a service" > is precisely to democratize access to knowledge graph information: to > make it available to nonprofits, public

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-03 Thread Erik Moeller
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 4:10 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > Reading between the lines of statements like "Knowledge as a service", > "essential infrastructure", "tools for allies and partners to organize and > exchange free knowledge beyond Wikimedia", etc., my sense is that the >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-03 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Hello Guillaume, Thank you for sharing your point of view. But I cannot agree with you that this is a case of „negativity bias“ or „tunnel visions“ or „begrudging fashion“. I have fundamental concerns about the redefinition of the community and the widening of the movement‘s purpose, and I fully

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-03 Thread Chris Koerner
Hey Yuri, IMHO, this section is the closest thing (thus far) to an 'elevator pitch' for the direction of the movement: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Direction#Our_strategic_direction:_Service_and_Equity You could probably even knock it down to "The Wikimedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-03 Thread Andreas Kolbe
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Ziko van Dijk wrote: > Hello Joseph, > > We must distinguish between the community, the movement and partners of the > movement. > > The Wikimedia movement is not a community, it consists of several > communities. Such as the community of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-02 Thread Yuri Astrakhan
For a while I have had a strong sensation, possibly unjustly so, of a highly over-complicated result. There are many good words, but I keep not seeing a simple, concise, intuitively understood statement. I feel we are still missing an understandable elevator pitch. If asked, I seriously doubt I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-02 Thread Guillaume Paumier
Hello, If you feel a strong urge to reject the text, there is obviously nothing preventing anyone from creating a Meta-Wiki page to that purpose. However, I would first ask to reflect on the process, its outcome, and where it's going. Strategy is complicated. Building a movement strategy even

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-02 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
As I mentioned earlier on a different occasion, at the very first step we at the Russian Wikivoyage have taken the strategy discussion seriously and compiled this document (Russian + translation to English),

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-02 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Hello Joseph, We must distinguish between the community, the movement and partners of the movement. The Wikimedia movement is not a community, it consists of several communities. Such as the community of Wikipedia in French, of Wikidata or of Mediawiki.org. Staffers of the WMF are part of the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-02 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
I don't read Ziko's concern as one that suggests to exclude developers or teachers. I read it as a suggestion that "... and beyond" is too inclusive, and thus it doesn't mean much. This is a concern that I share myself. I'm all for being inclusive, but the whole point of defining something is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-02 Thread
All possible stakeholders and participants in our 'value chain' should be consulted and be part of developing strategy. That does not make them all the same as the community that create our projects or sustain our content long term. It's a mime that has been pushed and stretched until the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-02 Thread Joseph Seddon
Based on your definition of community does that mean that mediawiki developers are not part of the Wikimedia community? Are people who volunteer in the real world or teachers who incorporate Wikipedia into their classes not part of the Wikimedia community? Members of staff of GLAM institutions

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-02 Thread
Ziko's point may not fit the rigid Americanocentric ideal of everything must be positive, fantastic, yeehaw-we-are-number-one, but he's spot on with how the foundations remain flawed. Only ever hearing congratulations and thanks can get you to a win, but will never keep you there. Return to the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-02 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Hello Katherine, This is actually sad news. In my opinion, the draft is far away from being a useful and appropriate document for our future. The serious issues from the talk page are only partially addressed in the rewrite. So I contest your claim: "The version on Meta-Wiki is based on the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-10-01 Thread Isaac Olatunde
Thanks for the update, Katherine. Regards, Isaac On Sep 30, 2017 9:29 PM, "Katherine Maher" wrote: Hi all, Since my update last month, we have been collecting, processing, and including your most recent input into the lastest version of the movement strategic direction.

[Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

2017-09-30 Thread Katherine Maher
Hi all, Since my update last month, we have been collecting, processing, and including your most recent input into the lastest version of the movement strategic direction. This version is available on Meta-Wiki.[1] We're so close! The direction will be finalized tomorrow, October 1. Starting