Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-26 Thread GoEthe.wiki
>We expect, however, to at least be told that you're planning to ignore our >request. To simply thank us for clarifying it, as you did, while secretly >having no intention of complying with it in the first place is hardly >something one does when negotiating in good faith. Just to clarify this

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-25 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Dear Kirill, Thank you, that was very informative indeed. I forgot to mention in my previous message, those three false statements about WMPT conduct were presented as part of the justification for the WMPT suspension in the original notification, sent 15 July. Despite receiving all

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-25 Thread Kirill Lokshin
Paulo, You were provided ample details regarding these concerns, both in the original suspension letter and in response to the specific questions raised during the subsequent email discussion. If Wikimedia Portugal wants to publish the full text of the suspension letter and have a public

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-25 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Kirill, Correction: The message sent to you stating we were not going to head those specific requests due to its illegality was sent in 17 July, not 15. While we are at it, can you please explain why the AffCom has, in a message dated 15 July, falsely accused WMPT of: - "*Not advising the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-25 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Kirill, I requested a clarification regarding WMPT activities, and Gonçalo asked a general clarification, also mentioning activities. In no way it implies that we have understood your request as applying only to activities - In fact, my understanding is everyone at WMPT understood it as a general

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-25 Thread Kirill Lokshin
Paulo, The request for clarification to which you refer was -- as I'm sure you recall -- in reference to carrying out planned activities, and had nothing to do with any legal matters, tax filings, or the like; the same was true of the committee's response: Olá Gonçalo, > > Yes, you can count

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-25 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Hello Kirill, On the message the AffCom has sent on 20 May, addressed to the chair of the WMPT board, answering to a request for clarification, you stated: "*we would like you not to introduce themselves as WMPT board members, but as members of WMPT*". It seems quite obvious to me that, had the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-25 Thread Kirill Lokshin
Paulo, The email that the Affiliations Committee sent to you -- among various others -- on May 18 read as follows: Dear members of Wikimedia Portugal, > > The recent developments in your chapter have been brought to our attention > by a number of members of the chapter, as well as members of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-25 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
It does not surprises me in the least the AffCom had forced other affiliates to "negotiate" with reported harassers. On the message sent to the associates of WMPT in 18 May, the AffCom demanded "*all members of the chapter to cease from taking part in this conflict and to work to resolve

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-25 Thread Chico Venancio
While I cannot speak to the legality of these actions, Affcom's demand that we (Brazilian affiliates) meet with reported harassers was very troubling to me. The fact that despite our agreement with that baffling condition no actual mediation took place, Affcom refused to engage with

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-25 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Two illegal requests, to be more precise. Last 18 May, the AffCom demanded (by mail) that the recently elected (15 April) WMPT board stopped acting as such. However, under the Portuguese law, that board, which had been elected in a validated General Assembly, was the only valid board of the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-25 Thread Pine W
I don't want affiliates to get a free pass to create problems or neglect their responsibilities such as by failing to produce reports, misusing trademarks, misappropriating funds, etc., and I am glad to see that AffCom is taking action when it thinks that there are problems. However, I am

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-21 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
I concur with Teles that a conflict resolution body would be very helpful to assist in the situations the AffCom has to deal. Though in the case of Wikimedia Portugal the conflict was limited to a unique individual harassing, stalking and sending legal and personal threats to several members of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-20 Thread Lucas Teles
The way AffCom deals with certain situations is clearly not transparent enough for the Wikimedia environment. We have a situation in Brazil that remains unsolved and Affcom wouldn’t even follow their own ways of dealing with it. Here is a clearer example:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-20 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Anyway, getting back to the more abstract case. I do not agree with total transparency to the "outside world" on communications between AffCom and the affiliate. As Lodewijk mentioned, and we felt on our skins over here, sometimes (most of the time?) it does more harm than good, at least in an

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-19 Thread Michael Peel
Hi all, As a daft question, why doesn’t affcom say to the affiliates something like "we won’t publish this, but if you want to, then please go ahead and do so yourself”? That way, it’s up to the affiliate to work out what works best in their culture/country/community and to go with that,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-19 Thread Isarra Yos
Also apt to be useful information for other affiliates - oh, they did or didn't do blah and it added up to serious problems; we've been heading in that sort of direction too and should probably stop, or similar - often it's things we can all learn from, so if presented as such and handled

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-18 Thread Pine W
I have several thoughts regarding this and related issues, but my main feeling is that we should not hide news that would be in the public interest to communicate, such as the suspension of an affiliate or an investigation into an affiliate's use of trademarks, simply because it is bad news or

[Wikimedia-l] Suspensions of affiliates

2018-09-17 Thread effe iets anders
Hi Kirill, (changing the topic to reflect better the more abstract case: this is no longer about WMPT, as I don't know enough about that specific instance) I appreciate your concerns for embarrassing situations. This may be the least painful approach in many of the cases. I also appreciate that