Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Hubertl, 18/06/2013 07:00:

Hi Johan, Anders Wennersten says:

And as shown earlier we have learned that this actually helps recruting
and keeping editors

???

It is difficult to draw conclusions about user behavior. The more
difficult it is to say something about the behavior of persons, which
are not yet detectable part of the community.

Because it's probably the most difficulty to make predictions about
facts that take place in the future.


Well, sv.wiki has just volunteered to be your guinea pig as the first 
botpedia after Volapuk. :) I think it will be possible to make at least 
some simple stats like how many new editors we got with first edit on 
one of these articles, what's their retention etc.
If the experiment fails, we may see mass-deletion of a million bot 
articles in a few years: it wouldn't be the first time, deleting is very 
easy.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Anders Wennersten
I am happy to see that you, as well as Hubertl, is happy to go on as you 
always have done. I do not have the ambition to change your view on 
life, but to reach out to others open to the new opportunities that 
automation gives us in better reahing our aim free knowledge for all


The base fact figures for sv:wp is
Increase of views +23% on yearly basis, WM:DE +3, WMF:Fr +8 (all mature 
wikipediauser communities), nl with +14 and wm:it with +16 also very 
good figures (Spain Russia, and Portugal still in a built up phase have 
higher numbers) 
http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesPageViewsMonthlyCombined.htm


Editor 1 and 5 somewhat up or stable, new editor up in Jan, Feb, 
March, but down in April (eastertime) 
http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaSV.htm


For my statement though I base it on that I 24/7 monitor ALL edits 
(there is around 50 in 15 min, 500 on 2,5 h, longer during night). And I 
have observed the effect of introducing our lakearticles (these are  
made up from three sources containing more then 100 different items of 
data, see for example 
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_%C3%B6ver_insj%C3%B6ar_i_Ljungby_kommun 
where you can pick any or from the googlemap can find any from its 
place). And here I find after these are created a flur of new edits in 
old articles (as well as these) many from earlier more passive 
contributers users, and even some new. And there are photo safaris now 
being discussed to take photos of some of all these lakes (we find that 
to work with articles close to your home seems to be very simulating)


Anders

Federico Leva (Nemo) skrev 2013-06-18 08:05:

Hubertl, 18/06/2013 07:00:

Hi Johan, Anders Wennersten says:

And as shown earlier we have learned that this actually helps recruting
and keeping editors

???

It is difficult to draw conclusions about user behavior. The more
difficult it is to say something about the behavior of persons, which
are not yet detectable part of the community.

Because it's probably the most difficulty to make predictions about
facts that take place in the future.


Well, sv.wiki has just volunteered to be your guinea pig as the first 
botpedia after Volapuk. :) I think it will be possible to make at 
least some simple stats like how many new editors we got with first 
edit on one of these articles, what's their retention etc.
If the experiment fails, we may see mass-deletion of a million bot 
articles in a few years: it wouldn't be the first time, deleting is 
very easy.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Anders Wennersten, 18/06/2013 09:00:

I am happy to see that you, as well as Hubertl, is happy to go on as you
always have done. I do not have the ambition to change your view on
life, [...]


To clarify, my view on life didn't include any item about bot article 
creation last time I checked.
There's also nothing I always have done on this topic, as far as I 
remember: I'm just observing global patterns in our wikis. I really 
don't care about single instances of the patterns, especially when I 
can't do anything about them.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Per A.J. Andersson
I am a bit suprised about the lack of trying to understand and 
develop mindsets here. I joined this mailing list the other day 
in the belief that it was directed at discussing current topics 
in the Wikimedia community in a constructive manner. So far I 
have not found overwhelming proof of this.


Hopefully I can be proved wrong.

Best of wishes,
Per
Wikipedia user Paracel63

2013-06-18, 09:32, skrev Federico Leva (Nemo):


Anders Wennersten, 18/06/2013 09:00:

I am happy to see that you, as well as Hubertl, is happy to go on as you
always have done. I do not have the ambition to change your view on
life, [...]


To clarify, my view on life didn't include any item about bot 
article creation last time I checked.
There's also nothing I always have done on this topic, as far 
as I remember: I'm just observing global patterns in our wikis. 
I really don't care about single instances of the patterns, 
especially when I can't do anything about them.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Nathan
Hi Per,

The discussions on this list can be heated, and not everyone is always
on their best behavior. All the caveats of debate on the Internet
apply, and any personality problems you might encounter on Wikimedia
projects occur on the lists as well. This is particularly so when, as
in this case, the topic has been debated for many years without real
resolution.

~Nathan

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-18 Thread David Cuenca
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 3:00 AM, Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se
 wrote:

 The base fact figures for sv:wp is
 Increase of views +23% on yearly basis, WM:DE +3, WMF:Fr +8 (all mature
 wikipediauser communities), nl with +14 and wm:it with +16 also very good
 figures (Spain Russia, and Portugal still in a built up phase have higher
 numbers) http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/**TablesPageViewsMonthlyCombined**
 .htm http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesPageViewsMonthlyCombined.htm

 Editor 1 and 5 somewhat up or stable, new editor up in Jan, Feb, March,
 but down in April (eastertime)
 http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaSV.htm


Instead of just discussing this topic as always has been done, it would be
great to take advantage of the opportunity to monitor changes in the sv-wp
community as a result of this massive automated article creation.

For me it would be interesting to know:
1) current perception in the community about automated articles correlated
with the number of contributions by the person answering.
2) impact of the newly created articles: views, human edits done to those
articles (specially nr of bytes added), correlation with nr of previous
edits
3) changes in the community after 1 year, survey of new members, of those,
how many registered after seeing a bot article vs how many after seeing a
human-created article?
4) some metrics about the article quality (maybe with AFT)

Otherwise the same arguments are going to be repeated over and over again,
year after year, without ever reaching a conclusion, or without ever
learning which impact those articles might have.

Cheers,
Micru
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Per A.J. Andersson

2013-06-18, 06:34, skrev Hubertl:

Loosing our original idea for which this project is donated by 
thousands of donaters! From which you are paid for. As an 
unpaid, long term Wikipedian in Residence I do know what I´m 
talking about.


Hello!

I'm interested in knowing more of your experience (as a WiR) in 
relation to our current topics. Do you have a link to relevant 
data och texts/reports?


Many thanks in advance,
/Per
Wikipedia user Paracel63


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-18 Thread David Gerard
On 18 June 2013 16:53, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote:

 great to take advantage of the opportunity to monitor changes in the sv-wp
 community as a result of this massive automated article creation.
 For me it would be interesting to know:

[suggestions for metrics]

 Otherwise the same arguments are going to be repeated over and over again,
 year after year, without ever reaching a conclusion, or without ever
 learning which impact those articles might have.


+1


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Per A.J. Andersson
Many thanks for the resumé. I thought it would be like this, as 
I've followed the development of the different wikipedias 
(content and key factors) since 2008. BTW, is there a 
(searchable) list archive?


Best of wishes,
/Per

2013-06-18, 17:29, skrev Nathan:


Hi Per,

The discussions on this list can be heated, and not everyone is always
on their best behavior. All the caveats of debate on the Internet
apply, and any personality problems you might encounter on Wikimedia
projects occur on the lists as well. This is particularly so when, as
in this case, the topic has been debated for many years without real
resolution.

~Nathan

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Per A.J. Andersson, 18/06/2013 18:05:

Many thanks for the resumé. I thought it would be like this, as I've
followed the development of the different wikipedias (content and key
factors) since 2008. BTW, is there a (searchable) list archive?


http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation/
More info at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
There is a summary at 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Manual_for_small_and_new_Wikipedias#Content_questions, 
where I added some links a few days ago including 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal_for_Policy_on_overuse_of_bots_in_Wikipedias


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Nikola Smolenski

On 16/06/13 15:24, Johan Jönsson wrote:

2013/6/16 Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com

I think that Anders is saying that the result of Wikimedia Swedish is due
to a work of bots and to a work of people.

It means that this result is contrary to the WMF strategy which would have
more people and more contributors.

The next millions of articles will be reached by Polish Wikipedia but also
by cebuan Wikipedia and by Warai-Warai Wikipedia.

May be it's the time to have only bots to write in Wikipedia? I hope that
in future the number of articles will be counted considering at least a
small content ad not only a template in a page, because the use like this
will discourage the communities of editors.


I would say our experience is that it doesn't affect the number of human
editors at all in any way. A couple of people run bots that create very
short articles about taxons or other stuff that, to be honest, probably
wouldn't have been created otherwise. These articles have very few readers.
Why on Earth would this discourage us?

Our main problem is that browsing Swedish Wikipedia using the random
article button isn't as fun as it used to be. That's probably fixable.


I am again using the opportunity to remind that all of this will soon be 
completely unnecessary since it should be possible to generate the 
articles on the fly from Wikidata data.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Anders Wennersten
In the beginning there were a mass of article created manually that was 
substandard and which today would not be accepted as proper articles


A little later (several year ago now) a mass of articles were 
botgenerated that were substandard and could not be seen as proper 
wp:articles


We have since long learned how to write good articles created by our 
editors.


We are just now, on a few wikiepdiaverisons, learning how to create good 
articles by bots, that give both facts, content, context and knowledge 
(also using the new new valuable tool Wikidata  which is a good 
component but not all that is needed)


I am proud to be active in one of these versions mastering this new 
intellectual challenge, of huge value in providing free knowledge for all.


And as shown earlier we have learned that this actually helps recruting 
and keeping editors


Anders


Hubertl skrev 2013-06-17 12:09:

Payin´ peanuts, gettin´ monkeys

Servin´ facts, gettin´ idiots.

An unmanageable, not maintainable mass of articles is the best way to 
breed idiots. Because facts do not create knowledge.


If that is our goal, then automatically created Wikipedias ar the best 
way to solve one of our biggest problems, namely the permanent loss of 
authors.


Maybe it is completely sufficient if you know that somewhere facts are 
stored in a most possible stupid form.


I started more than fifty years ago learning about facts, facts 
without understanding. But nine years ago I startet to learn something 
about knowledge, understanding and correlations.


Why do not you need people like me? If we have bots now?

Do we want to make ourselves more important with impressive numbers?

Hubertl!

The german language Wikipedia has no single article that was generated 
by a bot. I'm proud of it. If this would take place in de:WP, many 
people will leave this project. With certainty.


Anyway, that does not matter, a bot is probably much better for monkeys!

Am 16.06.2013 14:51, schrieb Nurunnaby Chowdhury:

Congratulations swedish wikipedians

*Nurunnaby Chowdhury Hasive*
Bangladesh Ambassador | Open Knowledge Network Foundation
(OKFN)http://www.okfn.org
Auto-confirmed, Reviewer  Roll backer Editor | Bangla
Wikipediahttp://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:nhasive
Treasurer  Coordinator (PR) | Bangladesh Open Source Network
(BdOSN)http://www.bdosn.org
Coordinator (PR) | Society for the Popularization of Science, Bangladesh
(SPSB) http://www.spsb.org*
*Central Team MOVers | Bangladesh Mathematical Olympiad Committee
(BdMO)http://www.matholympiad.org.bd
Facebook: fb.com/nhasive | Twitter:
@nhasivehttp://www.twitter.com/nhasive| Skype: nhasive |
www.nhasive.com


On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote:


grattis mina kompisar!
*Jag känner en bott, hon heter Lsjbot, Lsjbot heter hon...*

It looks like Polish will be the next to hit the symbolic number:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias#100_000.2B_articles

wittylama.com
Peace, love  metadata


On 16 June 2013 22:39, Tonmoy Khan tonmoy...@gmail.com wrote:


Congratulations!!!

Tonmoy
On Jun 16, 2013 6:30 PM, Patricio Lorente 
patricio.lore...@gmail.com

wrote:


Congratulations to the swedish wikipedians!

2013/6/16 Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se:

Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing

was a

bot

generated article of a butterfly
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichton_elaborata.

The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the

database

Catalogue of Life
http://www.catalogueoflife.org/services/res/2011AC_26July.zip which
(complemented by other databases) which holds data of around 1.5

million

species. The bot genrates about 5000 new articles per day and has

generated

just under 400 000 of the sv:wps million and continues...

The guy who runs he bot is a member of the Swedish chapters board
http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kandidater_2013/Sverker_Johansson and

is

in his

civil life a University teacher. In this capacity he is also a guest
lecturer at the university of the Phillipines where he stayed the

last

couple of months (and the bot was on hold). He is there active in
Cebuano-Wikipedia http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unang_Panid and

supporting

their local community, and he is now running his bot on their

wikipedia

as

well as on the Warai-Warai Wikipedia
http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syahan_nga_Pakli. So perhaps at the

end

of the

year these two language versions will also pass the 1 million mark!

Anders
PS out other major botgenerating effort of all lakes in Sweden is

also

making very nice progress, done 25% of all DS

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--
Patricio Lorente
Blog: http://www.patriciolorente.com.ar
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Dimce Grozdanoski

On 17.06.2013 12:36, Nikola Smolenski wrote:

On 16/06/13 15:24, Johan Jönsson wrote:

2013/6/16 Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com
I think that Anders is saying that the result of Wikimedia Swedish 
is due

to a work of bots and to a work of people.

It means that this result is contrary to the WMF strategy which 
would have

more people and more contributors.

The next millions of articles will be reached by Polish Wikipedia 
but also

by cebuan Wikipedia and by Warai-Warai Wikipedia.

May be it's the time to have only bots to write in Wikipedia? I hope 
that

in future the number of articles will be counted considering at least a
small content ad not only a template in a page, because the use like 
this

will discourage the communities of editors.


I would say our experience is that it doesn't affect the number of human
editors at all in any way. A couple of people run bots that create very
short articles about taxons or other stuff that, to be honest, probably
wouldn't have been created otherwise. These articles have very few 
readers.

Why on Earth would this discourage us?

Our main problem is that browsing Swedish Wikipedia using the random
article button isn't as fun as it used to be. That's probably fixable.


I am again using the opportunity to remind that all of this will soon 
be completely unnecessary since it should be possible to generate the 
articles on the fly from Wikidata data.



you mean to generate on the fly only articles of this kind, not any article.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Ilario Valdelli
The use of wikidata instead of a bot is a good practice to provude good
contant to all wikipedias because larger communities can control and fix
errors instead of providing content by a bot and keep it outdated.
Il giorno 17/giu/2013 15:53, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
ha scritto:

 Hoi,

 Please consider  there are over 280 Wikipedias in as many languages. In
 many languages we have few articles. Providing information is our mission.
 We aim to provide well written articles. The argument is that we do not
 succeed at that. Actually it is not an argument, it is a fact. When the
 Germans feel they do not need bot generated articles, more power to them,
 when they assume that their example is to be copied I truly wonder if they
 understand the lack of resources in so many languages.

 It is fairly easy to find articles that are considered relevant to a
 sizable group of the German populace that are missing.. I am working
 towards providing this information by using Wikidata. The best part (for
 the Germans) is that I urge them to make sure that these articles exist and
 are well written .. in German.
 Thanks,
  GerardM

 PS I blogged about how this can be done several times in the past


 On 17 June 2013 15:43, Dimce Grozdanoski dimce.grozdano...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  On 17.06.2013 12:36, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
 
  On 16/06/13 15:24, Johan Jönsson wrote:
 
  2013/6/16 Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com
 
  I think that Anders is saying that the result of Wikimedia Swedish is
  due
  to a work of bots and to a work of people.
 
  It means that this result is contrary to the WMF strategy which would
  have
  more people and more contributors.
 
  The next millions of articles will be reached by Polish Wikipedia but
  also
  by cebuan Wikipedia and by Warai-Warai Wikipedia.
 
  May be it's the time to have only bots to write in Wikipedia? I hope
  that
  in future the number of articles will be counted considering at least
 a
  small content ad not only a template in a page, because the use like
  this
  will discourage the communities of editors.
 
 
  I would say our experience is that it doesn't affect the number of
 human
  editors at all in any way. A couple of people run bots that create very
  short articles about taxons or other stuff that, to be honest, probably
  wouldn't have been created otherwise. These articles have very few
  readers.
  Why on Earth would this discourage us?
 
  Our main problem is that browsing Swedish Wikipedia using the random
  article button isn't as fun as it used to be. That's probably fixable.
 
 
  I am again using the opportunity to remind that all of this will soon be
  completely unnecessary since it should be possible to generate the
 articles
  on the fly from Wikidata data.
 
   you mean to generate on the fly only articles of this kind, not any
  article.
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Matthew Roth
We just published a blog post from Lennart Guldbransson on the Wikimedia
blog about this milestone:
http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/17/swedish-wikipedia-1-million-articles/


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote:

 The use of wikidata instead of a bot is a good practice to provude good
 contant to all wikipedias because larger communities can control and fix
 errors instead of providing content by a bot and keep it outdated.
 Il giorno 17/giu/2013 15:53, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
 ha scritto:

  Hoi,
 
  Please consider  there are over 280 Wikipedias in as many languages.
 In
  many languages we have few articles. Providing information is our
 mission.
  We aim to provide well written articles. The argument is that we do not
  succeed at that. Actually it is not an argument, it is a fact. When the
  Germans feel they do not need bot generated articles, more power to them,
  when they assume that their example is to be copied I truly wonder if
 they
  understand the lack of resources in so many languages.
 
  It is fairly easy to find articles that are considered relevant to a
  sizable group of the German populace that are missing.. I am working
  towards providing this information by using Wikidata. The best part (for
  the Germans) is that I urge them to make sure that these articles exist
 and
  are well written .. in German.
  Thanks,
   GerardM
 
  PS I blogged about how this can be done several times in the past
 
 
  On 17 June 2013 15:43, Dimce Grozdanoski dimce.grozdano...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
   On 17.06.2013 12:36, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
  
   On 16/06/13 15:24, Johan Jönsson wrote:
  
   2013/6/16 Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com
  
   I think that Anders is saying that the result of Wikimedia Swedish
 is
   due
   to a work of bots and to a work of people.
  
   It means that this result is contrary to the WMF strategy which
 would
   have
   more people and more contributors.
  
   The next millions of articles will be reached by Polish Wikipedia
 but
   also
   by cebuan Wikipedia and by Warai-Warai Wikipedia.
  
   May be it's the time to have only bots to write in Wikipedia? I hope
   that
   in future the number of articles will be counted considering at
 least
  a
   small content ad not only a template in a page, because the use like
   this
   will discourage the communities of editors.
  
  
   I would say our experience is that it doesn't affect the number of
  human
   editors at all in any way. A couple of people run bots that create
 very
   short articles about taxons or other stuff that, to be honest,
 probably
   wouldn't have been created otherwise. These articles have very few
   readers.
   Why on Earth would this discourage us?
  
   Our main problem is that browsing Swedish Wikipedia using the random
   article button isn't as fun as it used to be. That's probably
 fixable.
  
  
   I am again using the opportunity to remind that all of this will soon
 be
   completely unnecessary since it should be possible to generate the
  articles
   on the fly from Wikidata data.
  
you mean to generate on the fly only articles of this kind, not any
   article.
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Asaf Bartov
Hubertl, your e-mail was rude, even if you did not mean it to be.  Please
remember hundreds of people read every e-mail sent to this list, and
civility is expected.

Thanks,

   Asaf


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Per A.J. Andersson p...@telia.com wrote:

 Hi!

 Nice to know German language Wikipedia is full of sane people. Good for
 you.

 But maybe you don't need bots, so that's your decision. (You do not need
 infoboxes either, as I see it, and that's also your decision. Lsjbot makes
 infoboxes, among other things.)

 Yes, a larger database is more of a burden to support than a smaller one.
 Our experience at svwp is that automated help does not take away from the
 human part of the user community. Personally I think a larger database of
 comparable quality (built by any method) makes for a larger footprint = a
 greater chance of catching new editors. Wikipedia did that for me.

 My view on it is that larger communities can sustain and maintain a
 certain database easier than smaller communities. Wikipedia communities to
 a large extent depend on the language size surrounding it. We already have
 automation around us at several levels, and there are editing tools that
 make for faster editing – by humans. The use of these are seldom questioned.


 Best of wishes,
 /Per A.J. Andersson
 user Paracel63 at svwp
 (carbon-based lifeform from Sweden)

 2013-06-17, 12:09, skrev Hubertl:


  Payin´ peanuts, gettin´ monkeys

 Servin´ facts, gettin´ idiots.

 An unmanageable, not maintainable mass of articles is the best way to
 breed idiots. Because facts do not create knowledge.

 If that is our goal, then automatically created Wikipedias ar the best
 way to solve one of our biggest problems, namely the permanent loss of
 authors.

 Maybe it is completely sufficient if you know that somewhere facts are
 stored in a most possible stupid form.

 I started more than fifty years ago learning about facts, facts without
 understanding. But nine years ago I startet to learn something about
 knowledge, understanding and correlations.

 Why do not you need people like me? If we have bots now?

 Do we want to make ourselves more important with impressive numbers?

 Hubertl!

 The german language Wikipedia has no single article that was generated by
 a bot. I'm proud of it. If this would take place in de:WP, many people will
 leave this project. With certainty.

 Anyway, that does not matter, a bot is probably much better for monkeys!




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Hubertl
Hi Asaf, did you read my mail or is this an automated answer because of 
using the word monkey? Or is this a just a try like an official muzzle?


Really rude for me is, when some Wikipedians think, they have to start 
a professional service company for transporting simple facts without 
efforts to transport and support knowlede to and from people. Especially 
if it turns out that these facts in not so few cases are wrong, as Kurt 
Kulac has already been demonstrated.


Loosing our original idea for which this project is donated by thousands 
of donaters! From which you are paid for. As an unpaid, long term 
Wikipedian in Residence I do know what I´m talking about.


With actions like this, we destroy our sources! All these facts are 
available right now openly. Why do we need these facts as a simple copy 
in Wikipedia? With no additional benefit? Except a dubious rise of so 
named articles.


Wikipedia also has the charm of imperfection, which I certainly 
appreciate. The same imperfection, which is inherent to the people who 
will accomplish this tasks together with us.


Unfortunately there are some people who think that everything imperfect 
must be destroyed. But we will never ever reach this perfection. Just as 
we can never be perfect by ourselves. In a world that is constantly 
changing.


On your personal page on the foundation site, you cite Epictetus:

I will reply with Epictetus too:

No thing great is created suddenly, any more than a bunch of grapes or a 
fig. If you tell me that you desire a fig, I answer you that there must 
be time. Let it first blossom, then bear fruit, then ripen.



h.

Am 17.06.2013 22:27, schrieb Asaf Bartov:

Hubertl, your e-mail was rude, even if you did not mean it to be.  Please
remember hundreds of people read every e-mail sent to this list, and
civility is expected.

Thanks,

Asaf


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Per A.J. Andersson p...@telia.com wrote:


Hi!

Nice to know German language Wikipedia is full of sane people. Good for
you.

But maybe you don't need bots, so that's your decision. (You do not need
infoboxes either, as I see it, and that's also your decision. Lsjbot makes
infoboxes, among other things.)

Yes, a larger database is more of a burden to support than a smaller one.
Our experience at svwp is that automated help does not take away from the
human part of the user community. Personally I think a larger database of
comparable quality (built by any method) makes for a larger footprint = a
greater chance of catching new editors. Wikipedia did that for me.

My view on it is that larger communities can sustain and maintain a
certain database easier than smaller communities. Wikipedia communities to
a large extent depend on the language size surrounding it. We already have
automation around us at several levels, and there are editing tools that
make for faster editing – by humans. The use of these are seldom questioned.


Best of wishes,
/Per A.J. Andersson
user Paracel63 at svwp
(carbon-based lifeform from Sweden)

2013-06-17, 12:09, skrev Hubertl:


  Payin´ peanuts, gettin´ monkeys


Servin´ facts, gettin´ idiots.

An unmanageable, not maintainable mass of articles is the best way to
breed idiots. Because facts do not create knowledge.

If that is our goal, then automatically created Wikipedias ar the best
way to solve one of our biggest problems, namely the permanent loss of
authors.

Maybe it is completely sufficient if you know that somewhere facts are
stored in a most possible stupid form.

I started more than fifty years ago learning about facts, facts without
understanding. But nine years ago I startet to learn something about
knowledge, understanding and correlations.

Why do not you need people like me? If we have bots now?

Do we want to make ourselves more important with impressive numbers?

Hubertl!

The german language Wikipedia has no single article that was generated by
a bot. I'm proud of it. If this would take place in de:WP, many people will
leave this project. With certainty.

Anyway, that does not matter, a bot is probably much better for monkeys!





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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Hubertl

Hi Anders, you wrote:

 And as shown earlier we have learned that this actually
 helps recruting and keeping editors

Do you have any prove for that or is this just a speculation or your 
personal wishes? Does this mean that the Swedish community precisely 
because this botwork has - against the general trend - no loss of authors?


I know very well what it means to attract new authors and to retain 
them. But I also know that it is not because of automated welcome bots, 
but mostly with personal contact.


By this logic, any other Wikipedias, which even have a higher proportion 
of automated generated articles will get even more new authors.


If this is all true, I would change my mind immediately!

hu

Am 17.06.2013 12:43, schrieb Anders Wennersten:

In the beginning there were a mass of article created manually that was
substandard and which today would not be accepted as proper articles

A little later (several year ago now) a mass of articles were
botgenerated that were substandard and could not be seen as proper
wp:articles

We have since long learned how to write good articles created by our
editors.

We are just now, on a few wikiepdiaverisons, learning how to create good
articles by bots, that give both facts, content, context and knowledge
(also using the new new valuable tool Wikidata  which is a good
component but not all that is needed)

I am proud to be active in one of these versions mastering this new
intellectual challenge, of huge value in providing free knowledge for all.

And as shown earlier we have learned that this actually helps recruting
and keeping editors

Anders


Hubertl skrev 2013-06-17 12:09:

Payin´ peanuts, gettin´ monkeys

Servin´ facts, gettin´ idiots.

An unmanageable, not maintainable mass of articles is the best way to
breed idiots. Because facts do not create knowledge.

If that is our goal, then automatically created Wikipedias ar the best
way to solve one of our biggest problems, namely the permanent loss of
authors.

Maybe it is completely sufficient if you know that somewhere facts are
stored in a most possible stupid form.

I started more than fifty years ago learning about facts, facts
without understanding. But nine years ago I startet to learn something
about knowledge, understanding and correlations.

Why do not you need people like me? If we have bots now?

Do we want to make ourselves more important with impressive numbers?

Hubertl!

The german language Wikipedia has no single article that was generated
by a bot. I'm proud of it. If this would take place in de:WP, many
people will leave this project. With certainty.

Anyway, that does not matter, a bot is probably much better for monkeys!

Am 16.06.2013 14:51, schrieb Nurunnaby Chowdhury:

Congratulations swedish wikipedians

*Nurunnaby Chowdhury Hasive*
Bangladesh Ambassador | Open Knowledge Network Foundation
(OKFN)http://www.okfn.org
Auto-confirmed, Reviewer  Roll backer Editor | Bangla
Wikipediahttp://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:nhasive
Treasurer  Coordinator (PR) | Bangladesh Open Source Network
(BdOSN)http://www.bdosn.org
Coordinator (PR) | Society for the Popularization of Science, Bangladesh
(SPSB) http://www.spsb.org*
*Central Team MOVers | Bangladesh Mathematical Olympiad Committee
(BdMO)http://www.matholympiad.org.bd
Facebook: fb.com/nhasive | Twitter:
@nhasivehttp://www.twitter.com/nhasive| Skype: nhasive |
www.nhasive.com


On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote:


grattis mina kompisar!
*Jag känner en bott, hon heter Lsjbot, Lsjbot heter hon...*

It looks like Polish will be the next to hit the symbolic number:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias#100_000.2B_articles

wittylama.com
Peace, love  metadata


On 16 June 2013 22:39, Tonmoy Khan tonmoy...@gmail.com wrote:


Congratulations!!!

Tonmoy
On Jun 16, 2013 6:30 PM, Patricio Lorente
patricio.lore...@gmail.com
wrote:


Congratulations to the swedish wikipedians!

2013/6/16 Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se:

Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing

was a

bot

generated article of a butterfly
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichton_elaborata.

The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the

database

Catalogue of Life
http://www.catalogueoflife.org/services/res/2011AC_26July.zip which
(complemented by other databases) which holds data of around 1.5

million

species. The bot genrates about 5000 new articles per day and has

generated

just under 400 000 of the sv:wps million and continues...

The guy who runs he bot is a member of the Swedish chapters board
http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kandidater_2013/Sverker_Johansson and

is

in his

civil life a University teacher. In this capacity he is also a guest
lecturer at the university of the Phillipines where he stayed the

last

couple of months (and the bot was on hold). He is there active in
Cebuano-Wikipedia http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unang_Panid and

supporting

their local 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Hubertl



Am 16.06.2013 15:24, schrieb Johan Jönsson:


I would say our experience is that it doesn't affect the number of human
editors at all in any way.


Hi Johan, Anders Wennersten says:

And as shown earlier we have learned that this actually helps recruting 
and keeping editors


???

It is difficult to draw conclusions about user behavior. The more 
difficult it is to say something about the behavior of persons, which 
are not yet detectable part of the community.


Because it's probably the most difficulty to make predictions about 
facts that take place in the future.


h



A couple of people run bots that create very

short articles about taxons or other stuff that, to be honest, probably
wouldn't have been created otherwise. These articles have very few readers.
Why on Earth would this discourage us?

Our main problem is that browsing Swedish Wikipedia using the random
article button isn't as fun as it used to be. That's probably fixable.

//Johan Jönsson
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[Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Anders Wennersten
Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing was a 
bot generated article of a butterfly 
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichton_elaborata.


The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the 
database  Catalogue of Life 
http://www.catalogueoflife.org/services/res/2011AC_26July.zip which  
(complemented by other databases) which holds data of around 1.5 million 
species. The bot genrates about 5000 new articles per day and has 
generated just under 400 000 of the sv:wps million and continues...


The guy who runs he bot is a member of the Swedish chapters board 
http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kandidater_2013/Sverker_Johansson and is in 
his civil life a University teacher. In this capacity he is also a guest 
lecturer at the university of the Phillipines where he stayed the last 
couple of months (and the bot was on hold). He is there active in 
Cebuano-Wikipedia http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unang_Panid and 
supporting their local community, and he is now running his bot on their 
wikipedia as well as on the Warai-Warai Wikipedia 
http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syahan_nga_Pakli. So perhaps at the end of 
the year these two language versions will also pass the 1 million mark!


Anders
PS out other major botgenerating effort of all lakes in Sweden is also 
making very nice progress, done 25% of all DS


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Patricio Lorente
Congratulations to the swedish wikipedians!

2013/6/16 Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se:
 Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing was a bot
 generated article of a butterfly
 http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichton_elaborata.

 The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the database
 Catalogue of Life
 http://www.catalogueoflife.org/services/res/2011AC_26July.zip which
 (complemented by other databases) which holds data of around 1.5 million
 species. The bot genrates about 5000 new articles per day and has generated
 just under 400 000 of the sv:wps million and continues...

 The guy who runs he bot is a member of the Swedish chapters board
 http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kandidater_2013/Sverker_Johansson and is in his
 civil life a University teacher. In this capacity he is also a guest
 lecturer at the university of the Phillipines where he stayed the last
 couple of months (and the bot was on hold). He is there active in
 Cebuano-Wikipedia http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unang_Panid and supporting
 their local community, and he is now running his bot on their wikipedia as
 well as on the Warai-Warai Wikipedia
 http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syahan_nga_Pakli. So perhaps at the end of the
 year these two language versions will also pass the 1 million mark!

 Anders
 PS out other major botgenerating effort of all lakes in Sweden is also
 making very nice progress, done 25% of all DS

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Tonmoy Khan
Congratulations!!!

Tonmoy
On Jun 16, 2013 6:30 PM, Patricio Lorente patricio.lore...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Congratulations to the swedish wikipedians!

 2013/6/16 Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se:
  Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing was a
 bot
  generated article of a butterfly
  http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichton_elaborata.
 
  The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the
 database
  Catalogue of Life
  http://www.catalogueoflife.org/services/res/2011AC_26July.zip which
  (complemented by other databases) which holds data of around 1.5 million
  species. The bot genrates about 5000 new articles per day and has
 generated
  just under 400 000 of the sv:wps million and continues...
 
  The guy who runs he bot is a member of the Swedish chapters board
  http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kandidater_2013/Sverker_Johansson and is
 in his
  civil life a University teacher. In this capacity he is also a guest
  lecturer at the university of the Phillipines where he stayed the last
  couple of months (and the bot was on hold). He is there active in
  Cebuano-Wikipedia http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unang_Panid and
 supporting
  their local community, and he is now running his bot on their wikipedia
 as
  well as on the Warai-Warai Wikipedia
  http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syahan_nga_Pakli. So perhaps at the end
 of the
  year these two language versions will also pass the 1 million mark!
 
  Anders
  PS out other major botgenerating effort of all lakes in Sweden is also
  making very nice progress, done 25% of all DS
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Martin Rulsch
Well, precisely to the bots. But we can congratulate the Swedish
Wikipedians on more than 500k manually created articles:
http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/BotActivityMatrixCreates.htm

Best regards
Martin


2013/6/16 Patricio Lorente patricio.lore...@gmail.com

 Congratulations to the swedish wikipedians!

 2013/6/16 Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se:
  Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing was a
 bot
  generated article of a butterfly
  http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichton_elaborata.
 
  The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the
 database
  Catalogue of Life
  http://www.catalogueoflife.org/services/res/2011AC_26July.zip which
  (complemented by other databases) which holds data of around 1.5 million
  species. The bot genrates about 5000 new articles per day and has
 generated
  just under 400 000 of the sv:wps million and continues...
 
  The guy who runs he bot is a member of the Swedish chapters board
  http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kandidater_2013/Sverker_Johansson and is
 in his
  civil life a University teacher. In this capacity he is also a guest
  lecturer at the university of the Phillipines where he stayed the last
  couple of months (and the bot was on hold). He is there active in
  Cebuano-Wikipedia http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unang_Panid and
 supporting
  their local community, and he is now running his bot on their wikipedia
 as
  well as on the Warai-Warai Wikipedia
  http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syahan_nga_Pakli. So perhaps at the end
 of the
  year these two language versions will also pass the 1 million mark!
 
  Anders
  PS out other major botgenerating effort of all lakes in Sweden is also
  making very nice progress, done 25% of all DS
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Liam Wyatt
grattis mina kompisar!
*Jag känner en bott, hon heter Lsjbot, Lsjbot heter hon...*

It looks like Polish will be the next to hit the symbolic number:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias#100_000.2B_articles

wittylama.com
Peace, love  metadata


On 16 June 2013 22:39, Tonmoy Khan tonmoy...@gmail.com wrote:

 Congratulations!!!

 Tonmoy
 On Jun 16, 2013 6:30 PM, Patricio Lorente patricio.lore...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Congratulations to the swedish wikipedians!
 
  2013/6/16 Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se:
   Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing was a
  bot
   generated article of a butterfly
   http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichton_elaborata.
  
   The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the
  database
   Catalogue of Life
   http://www.catalogueoflife.org/services/res/2011AC_26July.zip which
   (complemented by other databases) which holds data of around 1.5
 million
   species. The bot genrates about 5000 new articles per day and has
  generated
   just under 400 000 of the sv:wps million and continues...
  
   The guy who runs he bot is a member of the Swedish chapters board
   http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kandidater_2013/Sverker_Johansson and is
  in his
   civil life a University teacher. In this capacity he is also a guest
   lecturer at the university of the Phillipines where he stayed the last
   couple of months (and the bot was on hold). He is there active in
   Cebuano-Wikipedia http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unang_Panid and
  supporting
   their local community, and he is now running his bot on their wikipedia
  as
   well as on the Warai-Warai Wikipedia
   http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syahan_nga_Pakli. So perhaps at the end
  of the
   year these two language versions will also pass the 1 million mark!
  
   Anders
   PS out other major botgenerating effort of all lakes in Sweden is also
   making very nice progress, done 25% of all DS
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Nurunnaby Chowdhury
Congratulations swedish wikipedians

*Nurunnaby Chowdhury Hasive*
Bangladesh Ambassador | Open Knowledge Network Foundation
(OKFN)http://www.okfn.org
Auto-confirmed, Reviewer  Roll backer Editor | Bangla
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On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote:

 grattis mina kompisar!
 *Jag känner en bott, hon heter Lsjbot, Lsjbot heter hon...*

 It looks like Polish will be the next to hit the symbolic number:
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias#100_000.2B_articles

 wittylama.com
 Peace, love  metadata


 On 16 June 2013 22:39, Tonmoy Khan tonmoy...@gmail.com wrote:

  Congratulations!!!
 
  Tonmoy
  On Jun 16, 2013 6:30 PM, Patricio Lorente patricio.lore...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
   Congratulations to the swedish wikipedians!
  
   2013/6/16 Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se:
Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing
 was a
   bot
generated article of a butterfly
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichton_elaborata.
   
The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the
   database
Catalogue of Life
http://www.catalogueoflife.org/services/res/2011AC_26July.zip which
(complemented by other databases) which holds data of around 1.5
  million
species. The bot genrates about 5000 new articles per day and has
   generated
just under 400 000 of the sv:wps million and continues...
   
The guy who runs he bot is a member of the Swedish chapters board
http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kandidater_2013/Sverker_Johansson and
 is
   in his
civil life a University teacher. In this capacity he is also a guest
lecturer at the university of the Phillipines where he stayed the
 last
couple of months (and the bot was on hold). He is there active in
Cebuano-Wikipedia http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unang_Panid and
   supporting
their local community, and he is now running his bot on their
 wikipedia
   as
well as on the Warai-Warai Wikipedia
http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syahan_nga_Pakli. So perhaps at the
 end
   of the
year these two language versions will also pass the 1 million mark!
   
Anders
PS out other major botgenerating effort of all lakes in Sweden is
 also
making very nice progress, done 25% of all DS
   
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   --
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   Blog: http://www.patriciolorente.com.ar
   Identi.ca // Twitter: @patriciolorente
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Ilario Valdelli
I think that Anders is saying that the result of Wikimedia Swedish is 
due to a work of bots and to a work of people.


It means that this result is contrary to the WMF strategy which would 
have more people and more contributors.


The next millions of articles will be reached by Polish Wikipedia but 
also by cebuan Wikipedia and by Warai-Warai Wikipedia.


May be it's the time to have only bots to write in Wikipedia? I hope 
that in future the number of articles will be counted considering at 
least a small content ad not only a template in a page, because the use 
like this will discourage the communities of editors.


Regards

On 16.06.2013 13:30, Anders Wennersten wrote:
Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing was 
a bot generated article of a butterfly 
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichton_elaborata.


The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the 
database  Catalogue of Life 
http://www.catalogueoflife.org/services/res/2011AC_26July.zip which  
(complemented by other databases) which holds data of around 1.5 
million species. The bot genrates about 5000 new articles per day and 
has generated just under 400 000 of the sv:wps million and continues...


The guy who runs he bot is a member of the Swedish chapters board 
http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kandidater_2013/Sverker_Johansson and is 
in his civil life a University teacher. In this capacity he is also a 
guest lecturer at the university of the Phillipines where he stayed 
the last couple of months (and the bot was on hold). He is there 
active in Cebuano-Wikipedia http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unang_Panid 
and supporting their local community, and he is now running his bot on 
their wikipedia as well as on the Warai-Warai Wikipedia 
http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syahan_nga_Pakli. So perhaps at the end 
of the year these two language versions will also pass the 1 million 
mark!


Anders
PS out other major botgenerating effort of all lakes in Sweden is also 
making very nice progress, done 25% of all DS


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--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Emilio J . Rodríguez-Posada
Impressive numbers. Congrats.

Can we have those species stubs and lakes in English Wikipedia?


2013/6/16 Anders Wennersten m...@anderswennersten.se

 Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing was a
 bot generated article of a butterfly http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/**
 Erysichton_elaborata http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichton_elaborata.

 The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the
 database  Catalogue of Life http://www.catalogueoflife.**
 org/services/res/2011AC_**26July.ziphttp://www.catalogueoflife.org/services/res/2011AC_26July.zipwhich
   (complemented by other databases) which holds data of around 1.5
 million species. The bot genrates about 5000 new articles per day and has
 generated just under 400 000 of the sv:wps million and continues...

 The guy who runs he bot is a member of the Swedish chapters board
 http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/**Kandidater_2013/Sverker_**Johanssonhttp://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kandidater_2013/Sverker_Johanssonand
  is in his civil life a University teacher. In this capacity he is also
 a guest lecturer at the university of the Phillipines where he stayed the
 last couple of months (and the bot was on hold). He is there active in
 Cebuano-Wikipedia 
 http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Unang_Panidhttp://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unang_Panidand
  supporting their local community, and he is now running his bot on
 their wikipedia as well as on the Warai-Warai Wikipedia
 http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Syahan_nga_Paklihttp://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syahan_nga_Pakli.
 So perhaps at the end of the year these two language versions will also
 pass the 1 million mark!

 Anders
 PS out other major botgenerating effort of all lakes in Sweden is also
 making very nice progress, done 25% of all DS

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Johan Jönsson
2013/6/16 Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com

 I think that Anders is saying that the result of Wikimedia Swedish is due
 to a work of bots and to a work of people.

 It means that this result is contrary to the WMF strategy which would have
 more people and more contributors.

 The next millions of articles will be reached by Polish Wikipedia but also
 by cebuan Wikipedia and by Warai-Warai Wikipedia.

 May be it's the time to have only bots to write in Wikipedia? I hope that
 in future the number of articles will be counted considering at least a
 small content ad not only a template in a page, because the use like this
 will discourage the communities of editors.


I would say our experience is that it doesn't affect the number of human
editors at all in any way. A couple of people run bots that create very
short articles about taxons or other stuff that, to be honest, probably
wouldn't have been created otherwise. These articles have very few readers.
Why on Earth would this discourage us?

Our main problem is that browsing Swedish Wikipedia using the random
article button isn't as fun as it used to be. That's probably fixable.

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Anders Wennersten
I meant we should give credit to the extremely clever PEOPLE behind the 
bots. And stop handling proper bot generated article as second class. 
Their data is actually better verified then most of the others


And what we find is that the bots cannot  build knowledge (which is our 
aim) without the existence of very sound ground articles. What is the 
value of a botgenereted lake article if the adm area it lies in is missing?


And in Swedish Wikipedia the botgenerated articles has meant a boom to 
the community morale. To work with an article of  a place or  adm area 
feels much better when it is used by and using the botgerneted lake article


Is it a coincidence that we now see the growth of these competent 
botgenerated article in nl:wp, sv.wp and it:wp? Not the top five but 
very alert and half big communities.  (next one seems to be Catalan and 
norweigian)


There exist a world outside the big ones, where we are eager to learn 
from each other and make good progress in our common goal, free 
knowledge to all!


Anders

Ilario Valdelli skrev 2013-06-16 15:12:
I think that Anders is saying that the result of Wikimedia Swedish is 
due to a work of bots and to a work of people.


It means that this result is contrary to the WMF strategy which would 
have more people and more contributors.


The next millions of articles will be reached by Polish Wikipedia but 
also by cebuan Wikipedia and by Warai-Warai Wikipedia.


May be it's the time to have only bots to write in Wikipedia? I hope 
that in future the number of articles will be counted considering at 
least a small content ad not only a template in a page, because the 
use like this will discourage the communities of editors.


Regards

On 16.06.2013 13:30, Anders Wennersten wrote:
Yesterday sv:wp reached 1 M articles. The one who did the passing was 
a bot generated article of a butterfly 
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysichton_elaborata.


The bot behind this article is Lsjbot who creates articles from the 
database  Catalogue of Life 
http://www.catalogueoflife.org/services/res/2011AC_26July.zip which  
(complemented by other databases) which holds data of around 1.5 
million species. The bot genrates about 5000 new articles per day and 
has generated just under 400 000 of the sv:wps million and continues...


The guy who runs he bot is a member of the Swedish chapters board 
http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kandidater_2013/Sverker_Johansson and is 
in his civil life a University teacher. In this capacity he is also a 
guest lecturer at the university of the Phillipines where he stayed 
the last couple of months (and the bot was on hold). He is there 
active in Cebuano-Wikipedia http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unang_Panid 
and supporting their local community, and he is now running his bot 
on their wikipedia as well as on the Warai-Warai Wikipedia 
http://war.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syahan_nga_Pakli. So perhaps at the end 
of the year these two language versions will also pass the 1 million 
mark!


Anders
PS out other major botgenerating effort of all lakes in Sweden is 
also making very nice progress, done 25% of all DS


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Article count milestones are nice!
However, I remind those who were distracted in 2008 that article count 
is a largely irrelevant piece of our statistics since 2008; both 
stats.wikimedia.org and www.wikipedia.org (plus the other project 
portals) don't use it at all to rank projects, etc.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Wikipedias


Anders Wennersten, 16/06/2013 15:32:

Is it a coincidence that we now see the growth of these competent
botgenerated article in nl:wp, sv.wp and it:wp?


{{citation needed}}
To me it seems the other wikis are rather stable. There is no wiki in 
top ten with 50 % bot created articles and after sv.wiki (13th) you have 
to reach positions 20th (vi) and 24th (vi) to find similar amounts.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with support of bots)

2013-06-16 Thread Per A.J. Andersson
Milestones are nice. They're one big reason for celebrating, 
once in a while. There are lots of others, but not all are this 
definable and publicly palatable. Quality projects of various 
kinds are ongoing all the time, and we need different kinds of 
carrots to keep up the community interest at svwp. We need to 
communicate our efforts in different dimensions, and this was 
also the idea in our press release statement some hours ago. 
Quantity and quality are no born enemies to each other, IMHO.


Personally I enjoy making small articles (in various subjects) 
larger and better. I think this is a common motivator to many of 
us, where the article creation can be a hassle with all the 
multidimensional stuff involved. Lsjbot makes my enlarging a bit 
easier. And the fact that Lsjbot now creates a fully sourced and 
categorised Swedish-language wikispecies inside of Wikipedia 
is a bonus.


Best of wishes,
/Per A.J. Andersson
(user: Paracel63)

2013-06-16, 16:03, skrev Federico Leva (Nemo):


Article count milestones are nice!
However, I remind those who were distracted in 2008 that 
article count is a largely irrelevant piece of our statistics 
since 2008; both stats.wikimedia.org and www.wikipedia.org 
(plus the other project portals) don't use it at all to rank 
projects, etc.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Wikipedias


Anders Wennersten, 16/06/2013 15:32:

Is it a coincidence that we now see the growth of these competent
botgenerated article in nl:wp, sv.wp and it:wp?


{{citation needed}}
To me it seems the other wikis are rather stable. There is no 
wiki in top ten with 50 % bot created articles and after 
sv.wiki (13th) you have to reach positions 20th (vi) and 24th 
(vi) to find similar amounts.


Nemo

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