Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-20 Thread WereSpielChequers
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users Message-ID: 52d9a98c.8070...@hackish.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 1/17/14, 3:55 AM, Erik Zachte wrote: Here are some charts which breakdown edits into several categories, reverts

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-17 Thread Mark
On 1/17/14, 3:55 AM, Erik Zachte wrote: Here are some charts which breakdown edits into several categories, reverts are counted separately. Of course edits is not editors, but it could be indicative of changed behavior patterns/policies. In the ongoing reassesment of metric definitions one

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-16 Thread Mark
On 1/14/14, 5:56 AM, Tim Starling wrote: On 14/01/14 15:38, Marc A. Pelletier wrote: On 01/13/2014 11:20 PM, Tim Starling wrote: The English Wikipedia edit rate has been declining since about January 2007, and is now only 67% of the rate at that time. A linear regression on the edit rate from

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-16 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 01/16/2014 05:02 PM, Mark wrote: These confounds might, in the end, not account for much after all. But I have been looking and haven't found even an attempt to *really* substantiate claims that the number of actual encyclopedia editors has declined, versus just superficial quantitative

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-16 Thread Erik Zachte
[mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 23:03 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users On 1/14/14, 5:56 AM, Tim Starling wrote: On 14/01/14 15:38, Marc A. Pelletier wrote: On 01/13/2014 11:20 PM, Tim Starling

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 13.01.2014 23:57, Risker wrote: I dunno, guys. I certainly would take a talk page message over a mechanical thank any day of the week. More particularly, I notice a significant trend in using thank notifications to express agreement with people without having to actually say yeah, I agree

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread David Gerard
On 14 January 2014 14:42, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: What does indeed make a difference and creates a sense of human interaction is custom messaging over templated messaging. It's the human interaction bit. I was *delighted* when I got a thank you for an edit, and really

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 14.01.2014 15:53, David Gerard wrote: On 14 January 2014 14:42, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: What does indeed make a difference and creates a sense of human interaction is custom messaging over templated messaging. It's the human interaction bit. I was *delighted* when I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Oliver Keyes
On 13 January 2014 20:32, Philippe Beaudette pbeaude...@wikimedia.orgwrote: On Jan 13, 2014, at 4:18 PM, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: we're getting almost 3,000 thanks actions a day, every day It would be interesting to know if that impacted the number of barnstars

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Philippe Beaudette
Barnstars mostly use a set of templates, right? (At least, the 80% case). We could ballpark it fairly effectively by checking for that set, no? pb *Philippe Beaudette * \\ Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 | phili...@wikimedia.org | :

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Oliver Keyes
Yes, but what you'd then have to do is either go through the database dumps or hit the API and check individual diffs. Database-stored information on templates is where are those templates linked from, not and when were those links added (unless something has changed relatively recently) On 14

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 01/14/2014 02:18 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote: Database-stored information on templates is where are those templates linked from, not and when were those links added (unless something has changed relatively recently) And even then that'd give dubious results. Some talk page get archived

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Oliver Keyes
There is inherent humour in being unable to test the comparative efficacy of a technological whizbang due to the lack of sufficiently standardised technological whizbangs ;p. On 14 January 2014 11:32, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: On 01/14/2014 02:18 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Philippe Beaudette
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.orgwrote: Add to this the complexity that several barnstars are subst:ed rather than transcluded -- but not all -- and you end up with a completely intractable problem. Bah humbug. *Philippe Beaudette * \\ Director,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Oliver Keyes, 14/01/2014 20:36: There is inherent humour in being unable to test the comparative efficacy of a technological whizbang due to the lack of sufficiently standardised technological whizbangs ;p. I'd rather call is a systemic bias which makes us favor standardised technological

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Tilman Bayer
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.orgwrote: Add to this the complexity that several barnstars are subst:ed rather than transcluded -- but not all -- and you end up with a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Oliver Keyes
So you'd rather measure effectiveness through...the feeling in your water? On 14 January 2014 12:29, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Oliver Keyes, 14/01/2014 20:36: There is inherent humour in being unable to test the comparative efficacy of a technological whizbang due to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread David Gerard
On 14 January 2014 21:20, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: On 14 January 2014 12:29, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: I'd rather call is a systemic bias which makes us favor standardised technological whizbangs just because we can measure them rather than for an actual

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Oliver Keyes
Aha. I totally agree with that, then, but I don't think it's the motivation for this feature. On 14 January 2014 13:28, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 14 January 2014 21:20, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: On 14 January 2014 12:29, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-14 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 01/14/2014 04:07 PM, Tilman Bayer wrote: but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that they still achieved a good approximation. I'd wager that what they have gotten might be a poor sample; there is certainly a correlation between being a power/advanced user and more intricate talk page

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Andrew Gray
I don't know if we can confidently assume non-registered users know that they're using a shared IP - one of the most frequent complaints from readers, historically, was some variant on why the am I getting all these messages, I never edited anything with varying degrees of alarm/distress. A.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 01/13/2014 12:19 AM, Tim Starling wrote: Not as fast as revisions, and we seem to cope with those. Fair enough. So you'd implicitly create the user, track it by cookie? With some well designed UX this'd work well and hide IPs entirely (and allow users that do create an account to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread James Forrester
On 13 January 2014 05:18, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: On 01/13/2014 12:19 AM, Tim Starling wrote: Not as fast as revisions, and we seem to cope with those. Fair enough. So you'd implicitly create the user, track it by cookie? With some well designed UX this'd work well and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Thyge
I'm not into the technicalities, but to hide ip's entirely on the sites would be the biggest advance in improving privacy I can think of... regards, Thyge - Sir49 2014/1/13 Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org On 01/13/2014 12:19 AM, Tim Starling wrote: Not as fast as revisions, and we seem

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Isarra Yos
On 13/01/14 20:37, Risker wrote: m...@uberbox.orgOf course there already exists a way to thank IP editors. It is to go to their talk page and leave them a message that says Thanks for your edit here [link to diff]. It is far more personal, far more likely to encourage the user to edit further

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Steven Walling
On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not entirely certain it's a good idea to technologize such very basic user interactions. It takes as much work to thank someone using notifications as it does to leave them a talk page message. That's empirically not

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Oliver Keyes
Indeed. I see a user's awesome edit, via a diff. I hit thank. I hit okay. I see a user's awesome edit, via a diff. I hit the talk link, I hit the new section button, I fill in my message, I save my message. Ultimately, though, this compares apples to oranges; nobody is technologizing this kind

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Risker
I dunno, guys. I certainly would take a talk page message over a mechanical thank any day of the week. More particularly, I notice a significant trend in using thank notifications to express agreement with people without having to actually say yeah, I agree somewhere. That the loss of human

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Steven Walling, 13/01/2014 23:24: On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not entirely certain it's a good idea to technologize such very basic user interactions. It takes as much work to thank someone using notifications as it does to leave them a talk page

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Steven Walling
On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: I dunno, guys. I certainly would take a talk page message over a mechanical thank any day of the week. More particularly, I notice a significant trend in using thank notifications to express agreement with people without

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Tim Starling
On 14/01/14 00:18, Marc A. Pelletier wrote: On 01/13/2014 12:19 AM, Tim Starling wrote: Not as fast as revisions, and we seem to cope with those. Fair enough. So you'd implicitly create the user, track it by cookie? With some well designed UX this'd work well and hide IPs entirely (and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Oliver Keyes
On 13 January 2014 15:03, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: I dunno, guys. I certainly would take a talk page message over a mechanical thank any day of the week. More particularly, I notice a significant

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Matthew Flaschen
On 01/13/2014 01:25 AM, MZMcBride wrote: I don't follow what you're saying about a bot account being the only alternative. You can use the exact same user interface exposure (i.e., little (thanks) links) and simply post to the IP's talk page rather than creating an Echo (logged-in user)

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Philippe Beaudette
On Jan 13, 2014, at 4:18 PM, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: we're getting almost 3,000 thanks actions a day, every day It would be interesting to know if that impacted the number of barnstars — Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 01/13/2014 10:14 PM, Matthew Flaschen wrote: Without publically displayed IPs for anonymous edits, people couldn't do that. That has, traditionally, been very much useless in practice. It's extraordinarily rare that abuse teams will even speak to checkusers, and they have some veil of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 01/13/2014 11:20 PM, Tim Starling wrote: The English Wikipedia edit rate has been declining since about January 2007, and is now only 67% of the rate at that time. A linear regression on the edit rate from that time predicts death of the project at around 2030. That's... come /on/ Tim!

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Tim Starling
On 14/01/14 15:38, Marc A. Pelletier wrote: On 01/13/2014 11:20 PM, Tim Starling wrote: The English Wikipedia edit rate has been declining since about January 2007, and is now only 67% of the rate at that time. A linear regression on the edit rate from that time predicts death of the project

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Erik Moeller
On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 8:56 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote: Reversing the decline in editor population has been a major strategic priority of WMF for many years. You are saying you have never heard of it before? Well, here is some reading material for you:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 01/13/2014 11:56 PM, Tim Starling wrote: Reversing the decline in editor population has been a major strategic priority of WMF for many years. My own opinion about how that decline isn't nearly as bad as some claim is well known. But also entirely besides the point: I was referring to that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-13 Thread Tim Starling
On 14/01/14 16:08, Marc A. Pelletier wrote: On 01/13/2014 11:56 PM, Tim Starling wrote: Reversing the decline in editor population has been a major strategic priority of WMF for many years. My own opinion about how that decline isn't nearly as bad as some claim is well known. But also

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-12 Thread Tim Starling
On 11/01/14 06:21, Ryan Kaldari wrote: These are two reason we don't have Thanks for anonymous editors: 1. Anonymous editors don't get notifications 2. Multiple editors often share the same IP address Problem #2 isn't as prominent as it use to be, but there are still many large companies and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-12 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 01/12/2014 10:57 PM, Tim Starling wrote: We could even allocate a row in the user table for them, which would be beneficial for various features that currently exclude anons due to the need to link to a user ID. What you're discussing is an unnamed user account that's implicitly created and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-12 Thread Tim Starling
On 13/01/14 15:35, Marc A. Pelletier wrote: What you're discussing is an unnamed user account that's implicitly created and lasts as long as the cookie does. Those are going to pile up *really* fast, especially from browsers that do not keep cookies for any reason. Not as fast as revisions,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-12 Thread Steven Walling
I really really wish we could thanks IPs too. It sucks to treat them like second class citizens. On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 6:32 AM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Something like the new message orange bar :) I guess that designers and Growth people may know an answer, but

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-12 Thread MZMcBride
Steven Walling wrote: With my product manager for Growth hat on... Like Kaldari said we can't give people who aren't logged in Echo notifications at the moment. The only alternative is to post to the IP talk page. This would require us to basically build a user account, i.e. a bot, in to Thanks to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-12 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Jan 13, 2014 7:25 AM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Steven Walling wrote: With my product manager for Growth hat on... Like Kaldari said we can't give people who aren't logged in Echo notifications at the moment. The only alternative is to post to the IP talk page. This would require

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Ryan Kaldari
These are two reason we don't have Thanks for anonymous editors: 1. Anonymous editors don't get notifications 2. Multiple editors often share the same IP address Problem #2 isn't as prominent as it use to be, but there are still many large companies and schools that connect to the internet through

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Isarra Yos
On 10/01/14 19:21, Ryan Kaldari wrote: These are two reason we don't have Thanks for anonymous editors: 1. Anonymous editors don't get notifications 2. Multiple editors often share the same IP address Problem #2 isn't as prominent as it use to be, but there are still many large companies and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Oliver Keyes
For 1: because it'd be impossible to accurately associate notifications with the person, I assume. On 10 January 2014 12:11, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/01/14 19:21, Ryan Kaldari wrote: These are two reason we don't have Thanks for anonymous editors: 1. Anonymous editors

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Jasper Deng
I imagine that once IPv6 is widely in use, this problem will go away and we'll be able to turn on all notifications (including Thanks) for anonymous editors. Not completely correct when it comes to public computers and mobile IPs. On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Oliver Keyes

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread MF-Warburg
On that occasion, do IPs still receive information about messages on their talk page? (Since the orange bar was abolished and they now go through echo notifications all well) Am 10.01.2014 21:29 schrieb Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org: For 1: because it'd be impossible to accurately associate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Sam Klein
I would very much enjoy notifications as an IP for IPs. We can make a few carve-outs: - major hubs (schools, businesses, wifi providers with thousands of users) can be excluded. The message/framing to IPs would be slightly different than that for logged-in users: since we can't be sure it's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Nathan
I think we should just thank everyone, on at least a yearly basis, with a thank you drive similar to what we do for fundraising. It doesn't need to be for a specific edit or tied to any one IP. After the fundraiser hits the goal we usually run it a little with a thank you banner, and if we did

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread David Gerard
On 10 January 2014 20:28, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: For 1: because it'd be impossible to accurately associate notifications with the person, I assume. Apparently that's the reason. However, being able to thank IP contributors for their contribution would be FANTASTIC. Saying

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Kevin Rutherford
The downside of this is when we inevitably start thanking vandals by accident. Kevin Rutherford Sent from my iPhone On Jan 10, 2014, at 4:03 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 10 January 2014 20:28, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: For 1: because it'd be impossible to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread David Gerard
Yeah. It shouldn't be like welcome messages, it should be specifically for thanking for good edits. But this is a cultural issue, not a software issue. On 10 January 2014 21:30, Kevin Rutherford ktr...@hotmail.com wrote: The downside of this is when we inevitably start thanking vandals by

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
David Gerard, 10/01/2014 22:02: However, being able to thank IP contributors for their contribution would be FANTASTIC. Saying thank you to casual drive-by contributors would give them quite a buzz, I'd think. You already can, even on the unwelcoming ;) en.wiki and de.wiki: talk pages have

[Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-08 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Hi, Is there any plan to allow using the Thanks feature to thank anonymous Wikimedia users? A Hebrew Wikipedia user asked me about this, saying that it may be even more useful to thank anons than logged-in users. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-08 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 08.01.2014 15:22, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: Hi, Is there any plan to allow using the Thanks feature to thank anonymous Wikimedia users? A Hebrew Wikipedia user asked me about this, saying that it may be even more useful to thank anons than logged-in users. How would they know someone

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-08 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Something like the new message orange bar :) I guess that designers and Growth people may know an answer, but all thoughts are welcome. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com ‪“We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ 2014/1/8

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-08 Thread Nathan
We should thank them for editing using a major banner, a la the fundraiser. I don't know why we do huge fundraising drives but seem to neglect editing drives, even though editing is really the core way for people to donate to Wikimedia. ___ Wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-08 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Amir E. Aharoni, 08/01/2014 15:32: Something like the new message orange bar :) Yeah, orange bar be blessed. I guess that designers and Growth people may know an answer, but all thoughts are welcome. As long as the orange bar works (it doesn't on mobile, beware), you can just use a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-08 Thread Bjoern Hoehrmann
* Nathan wrote: We should thank them for editing using a major banner, a la the fundraiser. I don't know why we do huge fundraising drives but seem to neglect editing drives, even though editing is really the core way for people to donate to Wikimedia. That would make many editors very annoyed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-08 Thread Nathan
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Bjoern Hoehrmann derhoe...@gmx.net wrote: * Nathan wrote: We should thank them for editing using a major banner, a la the fundraiser. I don't know why we do huge fundraising drives but seem to neglect editing drives, even though editing is really the core way

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-08 Thread Andrea Zanni
Agreed. It's nice to feel the community behind Wikipedia (well, when it doesn't bite you) and the feeling that somebody noticed you fixed a typo is even nicer. Aubrey On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 6:20 PM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Nathan