Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-25 Thread Pine W
I postponed responding to this thread partly because I was busy and partly because I was mentally bracing myself for a rough ride. I thank Risker, Nathan, Philippe, SJ, and James for their calm comments here. I wish that I had been calmer myself. I have not discussed this thread with Fae off

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread James Heilman
Agree that a further collaboration with internet archives on this could be an excellent solution as I imagine they already do much of it. On Tue, May 14, 2019, 21:13 Samuel Klein wrote: > Dearests. > > The archival question is a good one. The wikiverse could use a more > archival gloss, and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Samuel Klein
Dearests. The archival question is a good one. The wikiverse could use a more archival gloss, and currently regularly breaks links where a slight commitment to longer term reliably would preserve them intact. Nathan: long term preservation is not yet part of the projects' raison d'etre. Perhaps

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Joseph Seddon
Lethargy, indecision, internal strife, and an abiding commitment to self-enrichment and constant bureaucratic growth? Isn't that what every maturing community with more than a handful of participants grows up to be? :P The strategy process is certainly not except from these flaws. Why would it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Nathan
I think questioning the strategy for sustaining the movement's projects is worthwhile, particularly as part of the strategy discussion. I'm not sure if sniping on this list is as fruitful. I considered Fae's question as well; not just the mechanical "do we need an archive site" that seemed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Joseph Seddon
Philippe you are absolutely correct. Whilst I never commented on the importance of any individual on this list nor the questioned the record of anyone I admit that my tone was not what this list deserves. I also concur there are merits to Fae's point. However the intention behind my point is one

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Philippe Beaudette
This. What Risker said. Fae raises a fair point. And while the Foundation certainly does not make policy based off of small discussions on mailing list, it should (and used to) listen to those lists, and use them to aid in decisions about what policy to make. I like you a lot Joseph, but I’m

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Risker
Well, I think perhaps Fae's question may be considered more generally. Fae is knowledgeable about the structure of the Wikimedia movement as well as the WMF, and I think it might be best to work from the assumption that their core question is probably more along the lines of whether (and how) the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Nathan
The Internet Archive, incidentally, already seems to maintain copies of Wikimedia projects. I don't know to what degree of fidelity. Additionally, the WMF's core deliverable is already to provide and sustain access to its projects. It has an endowment for that purpose already. Other websites and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread
Thanks for the reply! Especially from an official WMF Community and Audience Engagement Associate. Can we take it from your defensive email it is a fact that the WMF has no known long term archive strategy? By the way, in your apparent opinion we may be unimportant people on an email list, but

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Joseph Seddon
Because the Wikimedia Foundation doesn't make long term strategic decisions based off of a 4 person discussion on a mailing list. I really don't know why people keep being surprised by this. Seddon On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 6:11 PM Fæ wrote: > I saw a recent size estimate of Wikimedia Commons

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread
I saw a recent size estimate of Wikimedia Commons of just over 200 TB. That's large but not astronomical. With a bit of guesstimation, the hardware only cost of creating a Wikimedia projects digital tape archive might be around $2,000 per archive set, a cost that probably would only be once a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Pine W
I think that raising the question here is fine. I also think that it is more WMF's responsibility to be responsive than community members' responsibility to guess where and how to ask questions. In general (this is not intended as a criticism of you, Dan) my view is that WMF has a very mixed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-07 Thread Dan Garry (Deskana)
On Tue 7 May 2019 at 11:04, Fæ wrote: > I am sure this Wikimedia wide community run list is a perfectly good place > to check whether the WMF has any commitment to long term public archives, > or not. > > Thanks for your advice as to where to go, but the strategy process groups > are undoubtedly

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-07 Thread Peter Southwood
] On Behalf Of Fæ Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 12:04 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive I am sure this Wikimedia wide community run list is a perfectly good place to check whether the WMF has any commitment to long term public archives

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-07 Thread
I am sure this Wikimedia wide community run list is a perfectly good place to check whether the WMF has any commitment to long term public archives, or not. Thanks for your advice as to where to go, but the strategy process groups are undoubtedly a worse place to ask this question and expect a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-07 Thread Dan Garry (Deskana)
I think the correct venue to ask for such a large, cross-cutting, strategic commitment would be with the strategy process working groups, and not this mailing list. Did you try engaging with them? Dan On Tue, 7 May 2019 at 09:35, Fæ wrote: > With all of the strategy discussions still on-going,

[Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-07 Thread
With all of the strategy discussions still on-going, it would be good to know where the long term public archive of our Wikimedia projects sits within it. As has been mentioned on this list previously, when volunteers donate to the Internet Archive, there is some comfort that their efforts in