Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-03 Thread James Salsman
>... board meetings are confidential so board members under duress can > always claim they tried to do whatever they were told to but got voted down? Board votes are published. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-03 Thread Gergo Tisza
On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 10:02 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > So I would like to hear from Susanna how easy it would be for her to > disobey direct instructions from her superiors related to her Wikimedia > volunteer work, because *they* are clearly taking a keen interest in the >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-03 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
-- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Andreas Kolbe > Sent: Thursday, 03 March 2016 2:37 AM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board > > Asaf, > > I hear you. My apo

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Peter Southwood
But is it avoidable? Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Kolbe Sent: Thursday, 03 March 2016 2:37 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board Asaf, I hear

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread geni
On 3 March 2016 at 06:02, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > So I would like to hear from Susanna how easy it would be for her to > disobey direct instructions from her superiors related to her Wikimedia > volunteer work, because *they* are clearly taking a keen interest in the >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Pine W
Andreas, While I understand your interest in asking these questions, I feel that Meta would be the best venue for this discussion, preferably on a page that is designed for Q with the Board candidates. This way, the vast majority of the questions for Board candidates can be located in the same

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Andreas Kolbe
Fae, Thanks. I've also had a conversation off-list about this with another Wikimedian whom I greatly respect, and they have shared similar impressions of Susanna with me. I truly appreciate the input. For the record, I do sincerely regret writing "But she is clearly part of a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread
On 2 March 2016 at 23:15, Andreas Kolbe wrote: ... > I don't know Susanna, and in fact until yesterday had never heard of her. > She may well be a delightful and charming person with a genuine enthusiasm > for open knowledge. There are after all many encyclopedic topics that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Pine W
Speaking in general terms, I like the idea of requiring early and public disclosures of conflicts of interests that seem reasonably likely. Also speaking in general terms, I'm aware of a number of Wikimedians in the United States and Canada who are directly employed by government organizations,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Pete Forsyth
Cristian, when I said I heartily endorse what Asaf said, I meant exactly that. I agree with him, and with you, that accusatory email threads without evidence are toxic, and should be avoided. But questions about Conflict of Interest are appropriate. In a Board selection process, we do not merely

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Cristian Consonni
2016-03-03 2:06 GMT+01:00 Pete Forsyth : > I heartily endorse what Asaf has said here, but I'd add one thing: > > When someone runs for the board, that introduces a standard that goes > beyond Assume Good Faith. Yes, but please also note the difference between "assume good

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Pete Forsyth
I heartily endorse what Asaf has said here, but I'd add one thing: When someone runs for the board, that introduces a standard that goes beyond Assume Good Faith. Ultimately, if appointed, a Trustee will need to disclose any Conflicts of Interest. But those disclosures, as I understand it, are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Asaf Bartov
On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > Asaf, > > I hear you. My apologies to Susanna and the list for anything I have said > that cast aspersions on Susanna's character. > Thank you. > Nevertheless, I remain concerned. She is part of a state committee under

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Andreas Kolbe
Asaf, I hear you. My apologies to Susanna and the list for anything I have said that cast aspersions on Susanna's character. Nevertheless, I remain concerned. She is part of a state committee under the authority of the Armenian Minister of Education and Science, who along with other senior

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Gnangarra
so much for "Assume good faith" On 3 March 2016 at 08:31, Cristian Consonni wrote: > 2016-03-03 1:20 GMT+01:00 Andreas Kolbe : > > I think that top-level government interference in Wikipedia harms people > in > > the movement and its mission,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Cristian Consonni
2016-03-03 1:20 GMT+01:00 Andreas Kolbe : > I think that top-level government interference in Wikipedia harms people in > the movement and its mission, especially if the government in question has > a less than stellar press freedom record. Yes, of course, but until you have

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Asaf Bartov
I would like to add that I have been following Susanna's work in Armenia since 2011, and have had occasion to evaluate it as a grants officer. During these five years, Susanna has been an exemplary Wikimedian, building community around her, empowering other volunteers to do their best work, and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Andreas Kolbe
Cristian, I think that top-level government interference in Wikipedia harms people in the movement and its mission, especially if the government in question has a less than stellar press freedom record. Andreas On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 12:10 AM, Cristian Consonni wrote:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Cristian Consonni
2016-03-03 0:15 GMT+01:00 Andreas Kolbe : > I don't know Susanna, and in fact until yesterday had never heard of her. > She may well be a delightful and charming person with a genuine enthusiasm > for open knowledge. There are after all many encyclopedic topics that have > no

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Craig Franklin
Andreas, Unless you have specific evidence that Susanna has been specifically involved with anything untoward, you are smearing with guilt by association and creating your own chilling effect, and you would owe Susanna a retraction and apology. Cheers, Craig Franklin On 3 March 2016 at 09:15,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Nathan
Is there any actual connection between Susanna and the high-level government interest or effort around the Armenian Wikipedia? What I'm asking is if there is anything here, other than supposition that because she is Armenian and the Armenian government is interested in Wikipedia that Susanna must

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Risker
Wow, Andreas. That's taking several major leaps of logic. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Any reason why you brought these rather extraordinary assumptions to this mailing list before Susanna had even had a chance to respond to your question at her nomination page? Risker/Anne On 2 March

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Andreas Kolbe
On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote: > Susanna is (or was) a researcher, and every researcher in Armenia is a > state employee. There are just no non-governmental organizations who employ > researchers. > > I do think there is a problem with a potential

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Keegan Peterzell
On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 3:35 PM, geni wrote: > On 2 March 2016 at 19:58, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > > Western countries don't really have a tradition of state-published > > encyclopedias, > > Wales is not a western country? > > https://en.wikipedia >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Mardetanha
so now we are judging a candidate because his/her country or government ? Susana and her team are doing really really great job, I wonder how unfair a person could judge a respected wikimedian. Mardetanha On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 11:59 PM, Ziko van Dijk wrote: > Hello, > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread geni
On 2 March 2016 at 19:58, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > Western countries don't really have a tradition of state-published > encyclopedias, Wales is not a western country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopaedia_of_Wales > If we had the US Secretary of Defense > writing

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Hello, I cannot say much about the specific case, but in general: in small countries it is not unusual that there is only one national encyclopedia, and that it is directly or indirectly published or supported by the government or an institution close to the government. A good example is the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 2016-03-02 20:58, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Now, why are we bestowing Wikipedian of the Year honours on government employees of repressive regimes? If we had the US Secretary of Defense writing Wikipedia articles about the US Army, or had employees of the German government running Wikimedia

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Armenia candidate for the board

2016-03-02 Thread Andreas Kolbe
A number of nominations have now come in for the affiliate-selected board seats.[1] One of the people who have put their names forward to date is Susanna Mkrtchyan of Wikimedia Armenia. In her nomination statement[2] Susanna refers to the 2014 "One Armenian, one Article" Wikipedia campaign. The