Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-26 Thread Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: the wiki syntax must go away, {{citation needed}} and will go away. {{citation needed}} ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

[Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Kim Bruning
I spotted this article linked from news.ycombinator.com, arguing -well- what it says on the tin. ;-) Apologies if someone else already posted a link. https://medium.com/@MrJamesFisher/wikipedia-needs-an-ide-not-a-wysiwyg-editor-7acd85b582c8 I'm not sure scratches head. Well, if we

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Thank goodness this wasn't written five years ago, otherwise somebody could get the awful idea to implement it. בתאריך 25 באוק 2014 18:26, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl כתב: I spotted this article linked from news.ycombinator.com, arguing -well- what it says on the tin. ;-) Apologies if

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Oct 25, 2014 6:17 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Thank goodness this wasn't written five years ago, otherwise somebody could get the awful idea to implement it. Having a side by side really time wikitext - display doesn't sound like an aweful idea at all to me. I'm

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 25 October 2014 15:09, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote: I spotted this article linked from news.ycombinator.com, arguing -well- what it says on the tin. ;-) Apologies if someone else already posted a link.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Because, even though I'm well aware of the fact that lots of experienced wikipedians love wiki syntax, the wiki syntax must go away, and will go away. Maybe in five years, maybe ten, maybe twenty. But it will go away. Investing effort in an IDE for it is pointless. Templates are, indeed,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Vira Motorko
I'm not very confident to say the author is completely right/wrong but the words the IDE would update display the source and the HTML together, and update the HTML inrealtime. Source on the left, HTML on the right. ​made me feel interested. If wikitext editor could display and update the result

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Oct 25, 2014 7:20 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Because, even though I'm well aware of the fact that lots of experienced wikipedians love wiki syntax, the wiki syntax must go away, and will go away. Maybe in five years, maybe ten, maybe twenty. But it will go away.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Perpetuating it with a dedicated IDE wouldn't help it go away. בתאריך 25 באוק 2014 20:51, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com כתב: On Oct 25, 2014 7:20 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Because, even though I'm well aware of the fact that lots of experienced

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Oct 25, 2014 8:03 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Perpetuating it with a dedicated IDE wouldn't help it go away. I doubt that. Side by side wikitext and result, making you see the result of either in the other in real time could help adoption of wysiwyg techniques,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread quiddity
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 25 October 2014 15:09, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote: [...] https://medium.com/@MrJamesFisher/wikipedia-needs-an-ide-not-a-wysiwyg-editor-7acd85b582c8 Quite apart from other issues, the author

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Mark
On 10/25/14, 7:20 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: Because, even though I'm well aware of the fact that lots of experienced wikipedians love wiki syntax, the wiki syntax must go away, and will go away. Maybe in five years, maybe ten, maybe twenty. But it will go away. Investing effort in an IDE for it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Lila Tretikov
Keep in mind that the projects on Y are brainstorms/seeds -- so it is important to keep that in perspective. By the time they've evolved they often look radically different. That said I think there is kernel of truth there. Our components solve often every problem with one solution. We do need a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Oh, it will remain, just internally. Maybe some day it will be replaced with pure XML, but that day is far away, and by the time it happens editors aren't supposed to care. (That's just me fantasizing; Parsoid people may have a different idea.) -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
People Who Are Able to Edit Articles But Not to Code dismiss wiki syntax much more than I do. Most of them don't even bother to begin to understand it. The few who do are a rare exception. A wiki syntax IDE will not go a long way, as the article says, in helping them edit. They will still be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Mark
I haven't had that experience with lightweight markup around here. The humanities, journalism, and creative-writing academics are the ones who seem to be the most enthusiastic adopters of Markdown in particular. It's taking off quite a bit as part of a simplify/concentrate movement, where

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 10/25/2014 03:38 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: (That's just me fantasizing; Parsoid people may have a different idea.) Parsoid, AFAIK, represents marked up articles as very strict HTML with Mediawiki-specific attributes - exactly what is needed to maintain a sane and consistent machine readable

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
quiddity, 25/10/2014 20:26: We don't have HTML preview, which might be interesting. Surely it's possible to whip up a userscript for it, if anyone would actually find it massively useful. (Or, we can just leave the browser's own Web Developer bar open to see the HTML. ctrl-f is our friend.)

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia needs an IDE, not a WYSIWYG editor

2014-10-25 Thread quiddity
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: quiddity, 25/10/2014 20:26: We don't have HTML preview, which might be interesting. Surely it's possible to whip up a userscript for it, if anyone would actually find it massively useful. (Or, we can just leave