Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-03 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
My idea was that adding an extra button to press brings the probability of the whole process down. If someone is determine to systemically add bad machine translations to the main namespace I guess only blocks could help. On the other hand, and extra button gives at leat an opportunity to read the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-03 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
2017-05-03 14:06 GMT+03:00 David Cuenca Tudela : > Perhaps it would be a good idea to compare the translated text to the text > that the user wants to save. > > If they are more than 95% the same, that means that the user didn't take > the effort to correct the text. > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-03 Thread Ziko van Dijk
Hello, This seems to me like a social problem, rather than a technical one. Shutting down the tool would be a disadvantage for those people who benefit from the tool and do good things with it. What is the general opinion among the Norwegians about this issue? Is there consent about how to deal

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-03 Thread John Erling Blad
Agree! I also wonder if translators adapt to specific errors if they are repeated to often. I wonder if it works like priming the brain to a specific pattern. On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Lodewijk wrote: > Reading this, I get a strong impression the problem may

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-03 Thread John Erling Blad
Note that some language pairs could easily be 100% correct. On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:06 PM, David Cuenca Tudela wrote: > Perhaps it would be a good idea to compare the translated text to the text > that the user wants to save. > > If they are more than 95% the same, that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-03 Thread Lodewijk
Reading this, I get a strong impression the problem may very well be in setting expectations for the users of this translation tool. If they expect the automated translation to be rather good, they may get fed up more easily than when they consider it primarily a glorified dictionary. Lodewijk

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-03 Thread David Cuenca Tudela
Perhaps it would be a good idea to compare the translated text to the text that the user wants to save. If they are more than 95% the same, that means that the user didn't take the effort to correct the text. Cheers, Micru On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Wojciech Pędzich

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-03 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
[ Meta-comment: We usually call it "CX" and not "CT".[1] ] 2017-05-03 13:37 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad : > > > > More seriously, it's quite possible that they already used some of the > > translations made by the Norwegian Wikipedia community. In addition to > > being published

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-03 Thread John Erling Blad
> > More seriously, it's quite possible that they already used some of the > translations made by the Norwegian Wikipedia community. In addition to > being published as an article, each translated paragraph is saved into > parallel corpora, and machine translation developers read the edited text >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-03 Thread Wojciech Pędzich
It does depend a lot on the engagement level of the human behind the keyboard. When I deal with machine-translated text, I simply wonder whether the someone behind the keyboard took efforts to actually read the piece. Now whether this would work if limited to namespaces outside "main" - I do

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-03 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
Creating machine translations only in the draft space (or in the user space in the projects which do not have draft) could help. Cheers Yaroslav On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:16 PM, Pharos wrote: > I think it all depends on the level of engagement of the human

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-02 Thread Pharos
I think it all depends on the level of engagement of the human translator. When the tool is used in the right way, it is a fantastic tool. Maybe we can find better methods to nudge people toward taking their time and really doing work on their translations. Thanks, Pharos On Tue, May 2, 2017

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-02 Thread Bodhisattwa Mandal
Content translation with Yandex is also a problem in Bengali Wikipedia. Some users have grown a tendency to create machine translated meaningless articles with this extension to increase edit count and article count. This has increased the workloads of admins to find and delete those articles.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-02 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
2017-05-02 21:47 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad : > Yandex as a general translation engine to be able to read some alien > language is quite good, but as an engine to produce written text it is not > very good at all. ... Nor is it supposed to be. A translator is a person.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-02 Thread John Erling Blad
Actually this _is_ about turning ContentTranslation off, that is what several users in the community want. They block people using the extension and delete the translated articles. Use of ContentTranslation has become a rather contentious case. Yandex as a general translation engine to be able

[Wikimedia-l] machine translation

2017-05-02 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
2017-05-02 18:20 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad : > Brute force solution; turn the ContentTranslation off. Really stupid > solution. ... Then I guess you don't mind that I'm changing the thread name :) > The next solution; turn the Yandex engine off. That would solve a > part of