Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-26 Thread Katie Chan
On 25/04/2012 23:50, Casey Brown wrote: I'm not advocating for anything in particular -- I could care less if the ombudsman commission made an OTRS queue. It's entirely up to them. :-) I knew this was going to happen LOL. When I said you, I wasn't aiming it at anyone in particular but making

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-25 Thread Huib Laurens
Phillipe, We are now to day's futher. Still no responds from you on or off list, or any responds at all from the foundation. best, Huib On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 03:52, Pedro Sanchez pdsanc...@gmail.com wrote: It really

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-25 Thread Casey Brown
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 9:06 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Is there an auditable log of these actions?  i.e. one that OTRS admins cant doctor? As Rjd said, there isn't. Nothing will ever be perfect though. For example, the mailman mailing list that they currently use can easily

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-25 Thread Katie Chan
On 25/04/2012 03:52, Pedro Sanchez wrote: It really amazes me how much we distrust the people who have been doing a great work (otrs admins, ombudsmen, etc). And all upon contrived hypothetical scenarios. And how about one of the root-access devs is secretly working for the goverment of... is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-25 Thread John Vandenberg
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Pedro Sanchez pdsanc...@gmail.com wrote: .. It really amazes me how much we distrust the people who have been doing a great work (otrs admins, ombudsmen, etc). And all upon contrived hypothetical scenarios.  And how about one of the root-access devs is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-24 Thread Thehelpfulone
On 24 April 2012 01:00, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: Queues are normally setup so that the OTRS admins can see all tickets. This makes things easier when checking for errors, making sure there are no backlogs, cleaning up cross-queue spam, etc. However, there are definitely some

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-24 Thread John Vandenberg
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com wrote: You would be able to easily keep track of what tickets have been answered, but as far as I am aware the OTRS admins are technically able

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-24 Thread Rjd0060
There is no such log within the OTRS software. Admin actions are logged by the OTRS admins on the OTRS wiki. Yes, these are manual edits. There has never (that I know of) been an issue with the OTRS admins accessing queues they shouldn't. While of course it is possible for them to, as others

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-24 Thread Pedro Sanchez
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 8:06 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: Is there an auditable log of these actions?  i.e. one that OTRS admins cant doctor? -- John Vandenberg

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Thomas Goldammer
* How many cases were brought to your attention? around 30, give or take * How many of those did you consider serious enough to warrant investigation beyond direct dismissal? around 10, I'd say * How many cases did you take on *proactively* (without a solid complaint)? none that I would

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Philippe Beaudette
That's not a formal complaint. That's an email to wikimedia-l. For a formal complaint, I'd request documentation of the dates presented, etc. pb ___ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643 phili...@wikimedia.org On Mon,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Philippe Beaudette
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 3:49 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: On my behalve a letter has been send to the foundation and the same letter has ben send by fax. How formal do you wish to get it? Nor I or the person that sended this communication on my behalf got a responds about the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Thomas Goldammer
2012/4/23 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com: Transparency and privacy are not mutually exclusive. Obviously, the actual content of complaints is usually going to be confidential, but that doesn't preclude the process being transparent. That's why I answered to Lodewijk's questions. I guess

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Craig Franklin
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:02:29 +0200 From: Thomas Goldammer tho...@googlemail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission Message-ID: CAL0e-KVCetcaaKNQuiSwX5ckBnxqw=9_6vhkdj988ypz3wd...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Thehelpfulone
On 23 Apr 2012, at 13:02, Thomas Goldammer tho...@googlemail.com wrote: You can clearly document the process that you follow. You can publish metrics like those Lodewijk suggested (and actual numbers, not just guesses). It would be nice to have a page on meta that says how many cases are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Thomas Goldammer
It was not meant passive-aggressive. ;) I know that his suggestion is a good one and I wanted to push him to just do it on Meta. Sorry if you misunderstood that. ^^ Th. I thought Thomas's requests and suggestions in this case were quite valid and reasonable, and they did not deserve such a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Thomas Goldammer
2012/4/23 Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com: Touché. I believe that if the process is going to be put on Meta we do need actual numbers as opposed to your guesstimations. Hopefully this shouldn't be too difficult to sort out, if you do some searches on Gmail for all the emails that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Mike Christie
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Craig Franklin cr...@halo-17.net wrote: I thought Thomas's requests and suggestions in this case were quite valid and reasonable, and they did not deserve such a condescending and passive-aggressive response. I'm sure you're all very busy but that's no excuse

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Thomas Goldammer
Ok, for the number fans, I did a filter search on my email archive and I found 660 emails archived that were sent to the OC email address since we were appointed (I don't think I deleted any, so this should probably be it). This includes emails sent from within the committee as well as those sent

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Thomas Goldammer
2012/4/23 Mike Christie coldchr...@gmail.com: This might be a digression, but I'm fairly new to this list and would like a clarification.  What's the decision-making process within the WMF on issues such as this (a request from the community to document a WMF process)?  I understand how

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Thomas Goldammer
Please have a look at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission#Processing.2FReporting I hope this is sort of satisfying for now? I will not do that for the 2011 term. Already this one cost me more than two hours and it is only from 1st of February to now. :) If you do the maths you end

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Risker
On 23 April 2012 12:41, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/4/23 Delphine Ménard notafi...@gmail.com: Top posting. This is getting a bit ridiculous. Frankly, while I see the need for *some* statistics, I don't see how the number of emails exchanged is in any kind of way

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-23 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Risker, 23/04/2012 18:50: I don't think your correlation is correct. Simply because they have not maintained a list of case dispositions (not required or expected to this point, and more particularly very difficult to do when there's no confidential place for them to retain it) does not mean

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-22 Thread Etienne Beaule
Still, a vote for new members should of been done. Ebe123 On 12-04-22 4:29 PM, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: I suspect it's because they're doing a good job in the WMFs opinion, at least, that's how I read it in Philippe's email... Richard On Apr 22, 2012 4:11

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-22 Thread Risker
Without commenting on the quality of the work of the Ombudsmen, I'll just point out that there has never been a vote for this position. Risker/Anne On 22 April 2012 15:43, Etienne Beaule betie...@bellaliant.net wrote: Still, a vote for new members should of been done. Ebe123 On 12-04-22

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ombudsmen commission

2012-04-22 Thread Lodewijk
Hi Anne, it was however common procedure to ask publicly for applications before making a decision on who are the best candidates. Maybe they are the best there are - maybe not, we'll never know. As an unrelated sidenote, I still hope the committee will public an annual report of her activities