Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread
Thanks for the reply! Especially from an official WMF Community and Audience Engagement Associate. Can we take it from your defensive email it is a fact that the WMF has no known long term archive strategy? By the way, in your apparent opinion we may be unimportant people on an email list, but

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reunião de Direcção sábado

2019-05-14 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Sorry, second message in 2 weeks or so that wrongly makes it to this list, due to a similar address name. Fixed now, hopefully... :\ Paulo Paulo Santos Perneta escreveu no dia terça, 14/05/2019 à(s) 20:51: > Olá, > > É essencial que façamos uma reunião de direcção o mais brevemente >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Vi to
Il giorno mar 14 mag 2019 alle ore 15:46 Yann Forget ha scritto: > Le mar. 14 mai 2019 à 15:32, Andy Mabbett a > écrit : > > > On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 04:50, Yann Forget wrote: > > > > > Currently, we require a confirmation via OTRS if an image was > previously > > > published elsewhere before

[Wikimedia-l] Qu'est-ce qui te rend heureuse cette semaine? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 12 May 2019)

2019-05-14 Thread Pine W
I think that the mobile Suggested Edits feature and the related analysis are interesting. I am forwarding text from that discussion. Also, I was happy to see the recognition of two new user groups. They are the WikiClassics User Group and the Wikimédiens du Bénin User Group. What's making you

[Wikimedia-l] Reunião de Direcção sábado

2019-05-14 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Olá, É essencial que façamos uma reunião de direcção o mais brevemente possível, para tratar destes assuntos: - Votação para o conselho de administração da WMF (escolha dos candidatos q apoiamos) - Aplicação aos Strategy Salons para discussão da Estratégia 2030 ao nível de afiliado

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Joseph Seddon
Because the Wikimedia Foundation doesn't make long term strategic decisions based off of a 4 person discussion on a mailing list. I really don't know why people keep being surprised by this. Seddon On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 6:11 PM Fæ wrote: > I saw a recent size estimate of Wikimedia Commons

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread
I saw a recent size estimate of Wikimedia Commons of just over 200 TB. That's large but not astronomical. With a bit of guesstimation, the hardware only cost of creating a Wikimedia projects digital tape archive might be around $2,000 per archive set, a cost that probably would only be once a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread
Any image recognition system has the potential to be misused. What we imagined was flagging images for the later attention of volunteers to look at. A simple image hash might just be the basis for identifying potential close matches to previously deleted files or derivatives of existing Commons

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
In this case none of the images and videos were published outside Commons. But there were claims that this were Derivative Works. We are again in the same point: we are asking for uploaders to fulfill something beyond the usual uploading duties. From:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Joseph Seddon
Philippe you are absolutely correct. Whilst I never commented on the importance of any individual on this list nor the questioned the record of anyone I admit that my tone was not what this list deserves. I also concur there are merits to Fae's point. However the intention behind my point is one

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Joseph Seddon
Lethargy, indecision, internal strife, and an abiding commitment to self-enrichment and constant bureaucratic growth? Isn't that what every maturing community with more than a handful of participants grows up to be? :P The strategy process is certainly not except from these flaws. Why would it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Samuel Klein
Dearests. The archival question is a good one. The wikiverse could use a more archival gloss, and currently regularly breaks links where a slight commitment to longer term reliably would preserve them intact. Nathan: long term preservation is not yet part of the projects' raison d'etre. Perhaps

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread James Heilman
Agree that a further collaboration with internet archives on this could be an excellent solution as I imagine they already do much of it. On Tue, May 14, 2019, 21:13 Samuel Klein wrote: > Dearests. > > The archival question is a good one. The wikiverse could use a more > archival gloss, and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Philippe Beaudette
This. What Risker said. Fae raises a fair point. And while the Foundation certainly does not make policy based off of small discussions on mailing list, it should (and used to) listen to those lists, and use them to aid in decisions about what policy to make. I like you a lot Joseph, but I’m

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of the Wikimédiens du Bénin User Group

2019-05-14 Thread Aboubacar Keïta
Félicitations et bien venue a la grande maison de connaissance libre Le lun. 13 mai 2019 à 10:59, Bobby Shabangu a écrit : > Congratulations to the new UG. > > Regards, > Bobby Shabangu > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 19:18, Shlomi Fish wrote: > > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 11:41:53 -0400 > > Kirill

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Nathan
I think questioning the strategy for sustaining the movement's projects is worthwhile, particularly as part of the strategy discussion. I'm not sure if sniping on this list is as fruitful. I considered Fae's question as well; not just the mechanical "do we need an archive site" that seemed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Nathan
The Internet Archive, incidentally, already seems to maintain copies of Wikimedia projects. I don't know to what degree of fidelity. Additionally, the WMF's core deliverable is already to provide and sustain access to its projects. It has an endowment for that purpose already. Other websites and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Risker
Well, I think perhaps Fae's question may be considered more generally. Fae is knowledgeable about the structure of the Wikimedia movement as well as the WMF, and I think it might be best to work from the assumption that their core question is probably more along the lines of whether (and how) the

[Wikimedia-l] Be the change you want to see (was: WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive)

2019-05-14 Thread Asaf Bartov
Speaking as a (very) longtime member of this mailing list, and one who is carefully observing it for a few years now as a volunteer list co-administrator: On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 3:56 AM Joseph Seddon wrote: > I, like many others, wish to see this list become a crucible of good > suggestions,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Andy Mabbett
On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 04:50, Yann Forget wrote: > Currently, we require a confirmation via OTRS if an image was previously > published elsewhere before being uploaded to Commons. Really? can you provide a link to a policy age proving that assertion? Your claim rather makes a mockery of the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Philip Kopetzky
I really think that the main problem here is not automation but the problem Asaf pointed out: A small circle of people dictating the rules and who's allowed to participate and who isn't. Automation just perpetuates the cycle of those same people being in control of those processes. On Mon, 13 May

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Andy Mabbett
> On Mon, 13 May 2019 at 05:10, Yann Forget wrote: > > > > This was reverted. It is a dishonest edit with a misleading summary On Mon, 13 May 2019 at 17:46, David Gerard wrote: > Yann, you SERIOUSLY need to back up this claim of "dishonesty" on the > part of a Wikmedian of long experience.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
You are right, Asaf. It seems that getting the sysop bit is much harder now than it used to be in the past, possibly due to many situations of inexperienced sysops causing havoc in Commons. OTOH, any destructive/untrustworthy account, such as "Daphne Lantier"/INC, can easily get the flag by being

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Nah, of course they do. We are using filters at the Portuguese Wikipedia since 2009, and I can say, without blinking, that if it was not for filters, IPs would have ceased to be allowed to edit at all there for good now, so much it is the amount of IP vandalism that they automatically catch and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive

2019-05-14 Thread Pine W
I think that raising the question here is fine. I also think that it is more WMF's responsibility to be responsive than community members' responsibility to guess where and how to ask questions. In general (this is not intended as a criticism of you, Dan) my view is that WMF has a very mixed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Yann Forget
Le mar. 14 mai 2019 à 15:32, Andy Mabbett a écrit : > On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 04:50, Yann Forget wrote: > > > Currently, we require a confirmation via OTRS if an image was previously > > published elsewhere before being uploaded to Commons. > > Really? can you provide a link to a policy age

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread John Erling Blad
To quote what you said > > I think professional photographers should have their account confirmed by > > OTRS. This is not about previous publishing, this is about the person publishing a photo. Problems with previous publishing is not special in any way for professional photographers vs

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
Sorry Lane... which " wiki publishing norm" did we fail? Thanks From: Wikimedia-l on behalf of Lane Rasberry Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2019 4:01 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach I see the problem as lack

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Lane Rasberry
wiki norms which seem to have been transgressed - - recognition that the program and submitted content was unusual and extraordinary - lack of on-wiki documentation of program - lack of links between submitted content and on-wiki documentation - lack of small pilot before

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
Thanks Lane for the clarification. I disagree on some points, but it is useful to read the points. Galder From: Wikimedia-l on behalf of Lane Rasberry Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2019 4:34 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

2019-05-14 Thread Lane Rasberry
I see the problem as lack of access to basic training information. It appears that the team doing the uploads failed to comply to wiki publishing norms. I do not see this as a problem between editors and moderators, but rather as being between who editors versus our rules. Wikimedia projects