Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Pine W]

Hello,

I believe that unofficial groups are fairly common. There were unofficial
meetups for years in the City of Seattle.

Similar to how computer games, movies, and television shows may have
unofficial fan clubs and meetup groups, I believe that the same should be
true for Wikimedia.

I can understand how problems would arise if unofficial groups tried to use
Wikimedia trademarks, such as the name "Wikipedia", to sell merchandise, to
do political advocacy, or to request donations. For those types of
situations there are affiliation agreements, trademark agreements, and
other legal processes that happen between local organizations and WMF.

So long as a group is not misusing the trademarks, I think that people who
would like to meet or communicate with others who are interested in
Wikimedia should be free to do so.

Besides the benefits from allowing people to make informal connections,
another reason for being somewhat generous with allowing use of the
trademarks is that I think that most of us would not want the WMF Board to
use the trademarks to try to suppress dissent with WMF decisions from
Wikimedia affiliate organizations, online communities, and individuals.
Some of us have memories of WMF's use of Superprotect against the German
Wikipedia community

.

If you are interested in discussing this topic further or have concerns
about a specific group's use of trademarks, then I suggest that you contact
WMF Legal and/or the Affiliations Committee.

I hope that this information is helpful. Thank you for wanting to protect
the Wikipedia brand.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:55 AM, Dung Nguyen  wrote:

> The issue at hand here is that the linked-to Facebook page is not directly
> affiliated with the Wikipedia project.  It might share some members, but
> Wikipedia has no control over its content.  For a Wikipedia project that
> has had its share of misconceptions about its affiliations, I think it's
> inadvisable to link to a non-official page.  Preferably, the page should
> meet some minimum requirements to become an official page of the project
> and be "anointed" as such before it's linked to from the project front
> page.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Dung Nguyen]

The issue at hand here is that the linked-to Facebook page is not directly
affiliated with the Wikipedia project.  It might share some members, but
Wikipedia has no control over its content.  For a Wikipedia project that
has had its share of misconceptions about its affiliations, I think it's
inadvisable to link to a non-official page.  Preferably, the page should
meet some minimum requirements to become an official page of the project
and be "anointed" as such before it's linked to from the project front page.

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018, 7:53 AM Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy 
wrote:

> Sorry, but can I understand this as a promotion link to Facebook pages
> (managed by community) is recommended for outreach Wikipedia, even if it
> isn't an "official Facebook page" managed by WMF or chapters/usergroups?
>
>
> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> Supporter, Wikimedian
>
> 2018-03-01 4:43 GMT+09:00 Asaf Bartov :
>
> > Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
> of
> > Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
> kind
> > of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing
> visitors
> > to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
> > i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.
> It
> > is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
> > explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
> > general.
> >
> > As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
> > Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
> > be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
> > group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach,
> awareness,
> > and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >Asaf
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> > > any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> > > should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> > > especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> > > take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> > > > I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> > > > consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not?
> Because
> > > it
> > > > same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> > > > website.
> > > >
> > > > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > > >
> > > > 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
> > > >
> > > >> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> > > policy.
> > > >>
> > > >> James
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
> > > minatahats...@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> > > communities
> > > >>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
> > > Page
> > > >> or
> > > >>> Sitenotice?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia
> Wikipedia,
> > > >> Arabic
> > > >>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> > > >> Facebook
> > > >>> as verified.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a
> > link
> > > as
> > > >>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook
> > and
> > > >>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other
> projects
> > > can
> > > >> do
> > > >>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> > > >>> promotion to Facebook at <
> > > >>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> > > >>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> > > >>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> > >  . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thank you!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > >>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > > >>> ___
> > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > >>>  ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> James Heilman
> > > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > >> ___
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy]

Sorry, but can I understand this as a promotion link to Facebook pages
(managed by community) is recommended for outreach Wikipedia, even if it
isn't an "official Facebook page" managed by WMF or chapters/usergroups?


Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Supporter, Wikimedian

2018-03-01 4:43 GMT+09:00 Asaf Bartov :

> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority of
> Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some kind
> of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
> to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
> i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
> is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
> explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
> general.
>
> As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
> Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
> be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
> group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
> and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
>
> Cheers,
>
>Asaf
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
> wrote:
>
> > Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> > any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> > should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> > especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> > take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> > > I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> > > consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because
> > it
> > > same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> > > website.
> > >
> > > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > >
> > > 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
> > >
> > >> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> > policy.
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
> > minatahats...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> > communities
> > >>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
> > Page
> > >> or
> > >>> Sitenotice?
> > >>>
> > >>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
> > >> Arabic
> > >>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> > >> Facebook
> > >>> as verified.
> > >>>
> > >>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a
> link
> > as
> > >>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook
> and
> > >>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
> > can
> > >> do
> > >>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> > >>> promotion to Facebook at <
> > >>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> > >>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> > >>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> >  . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you!
> > >>>
> > >>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > >>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > >>> ___
> > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > >>> 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> James Heilman
> > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > >> ___
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> 
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> > >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Dung Nguyen]

The issue at hand here is that the linked-to Facebook page is not directly
affiliated with the Wikipedia project.  It might share some members, but
Wikipedia has no control over its content.  For a Wikipedia project that
has had its share of misconceptions about its affiliations, I think it's
inadvisable to link to a non-official page.  Preferably, the page should
meet some minimum requirements to become an official page of the project
and be "anointed" as such before it's linked to from the project front page.


On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 10:06 AM Minata Hatsune 
wrote:

>  I resent this for another people from Vietnamese community need to join
> discussion, but subscribe the wikimedia-l just now.
>
>
> 2018-03-01 4:43 GMT+09:00 Asaf Bartov :
>
> > Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
> of
> > Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
> kind
> > of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing
> visitors
> > to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
> > i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.
> It
> > is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
> > explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
> > general.
> >
> > As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
> > Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
> > be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
> > group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach,
> awareness,
> > and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >Asaf
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> > > any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> > > should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> > > especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> > > take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> > > > I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> > > > consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not?
> Because
> > > it
> > > > same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> > > > website.
> > > >
> > > > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > > >
> > > > 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
> > > >
> > > >> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> > > policy.
> > > >>
> > > >> James
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
> > > minatahats...@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> > > communities
> > > >>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
> > > Page
> > > >> or
> > > >>> Sitenotice?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia
> Wikipedia,
> > > >> Arabic
> > > >>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> > > >> Facebook
> > > >>> as verified.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a
> > link
> > > as
> > > >>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook
> > and
> > > >>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other
> projects
> > > can
> > > >> do
> > > >>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> > > >>> promotion to Facebook at <
> > > >>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> > > >>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> > > >>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> > >  . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thank you!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > >>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > > >>> ___
> > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > >>>  ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> James Heilman
> > > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > >> ___
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Erik Moeller]

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Strainu  wrote:

>> Personally, I'd love to see WMF or a chapter set up a public Mastodon
>> instance; the project has matured significantly since its first
>> release and is at least a viable free/open alternative to the
>> Twitter-ish forms of social networking. FB still has event management
>> functions that are difficult to substitute, however.

> Even if there would be an open-source alternative with all the
> Facebook functionality, installing, maintaining and promoting it would
> be a huge waste of money.

I would agree if we compared centralized service to centralized
service (e.g. Ello vs. Facebook), but the premise of services like
Mastodon is federation between servers (instances) using open
protocols like ActivityPub. This means that even small organizations
can credibly host "instances" of a social network like Mastodon while
participating in the larger federation of users (you can follow users
from other instances, reply to their statuses, etc.). Mastodon is the
first IMO fairly successful implementation of this approach; it has
more than 1M accounts of which about 10% show recent activity, and it
already is reaching subcultures beyond the usual suspects.

To give you an idea of the cost, you can run a mid-size instance with
a few thousand users, automated backups and monitoring for tens of
dollars a month (the main cost is in person-time, but most instances
like this are run by volunteers and supported by donations). So I do
think it would be very possible even for an interested volunteer to
set up an instance with reasonable uptime, backup and monitoring
characteristics for exploratory use. Certainly it would be possible at
reasonable cost for WMF or a chapter to do so, possibly with some
"active contributor on Wikimedia projects" requirement for creating an
account.

Once again, the crucial point here is that instances communicate with
each other, so even though your own instance may only have a few
thousand users, you are part of the larger "fediverse" which includes
software with completely different UIs implementing the same protocol.

A nice intro for the unfamiliar:
https://blog.rowan.website/2018/01/08/yet-another-explanation-of-mastodon/

Incidentally, the protocol used by Mastodon, ActivityPub, recently
became a W3C recommendation:
https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/

Of course, I'm not opposed to people using FB for organizing -- I
think it's a totally reasonable choice, for the reasons you say -- but
I do think it's worth keeping an eye on federated social networks in
general, and Mastodon in particular, as a potential alternative space
for Wikimedia to engage in, _including_ for outreach. The numbers are
obviously still a drop in the bucket compared with the mega-networks,
so pragmatic considerations may reasonably prevail in many
circumstances.

Erik

___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Strainu]

2018-03-01 4:01 GMT+02:00 Erik Moeller :
>
> Personally, I'd love to see WMF or a chapter set up a public Mastodon
> instance; the project has matured significantly since its first
> release and is at least a viable free/open alternative to the
> Twitter-ish forms of social networking. FB still has event management
> functions that are difficult to substitute, however.

Even if there would be an open-source alternative with all the
Facebook functionality, installing, maintaining and promoting it would
be a huge waste of money. The Facebook pages are an *outreach* tool,
which implies getting out of our walled garden, not extending the
garden. Choosing Facebook is simply the smart thing to do ATM, since
all alternatives are smaller in size and engagement.

The more interesting thing is what you do once you have the page and
you have convinced your community to put it in a banner or sidebar. I
have experimented with small tasks that could be done by newcomers,
such as identifying images or correcting diacritics, with somewhat
mixed results (the more I go towards text editing, the lower the
impact). I am curious if other people have done similar experiments
and would be willing to share their experience.

Strainu



>
> Erik
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Minata Hatsune]

 I resent this for another people from Vietnamese community need to join
discussion, but subscribe the wikimedia-l just now.


2018-03-01 4:43 GMT+09:00 Asaf Bartov :

> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority of
> Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some kind
> of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
> to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
> i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
> is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
> explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
> general.
>
> As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
> Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
> be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
> group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
> and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
>
> Cheers,
>
>Asaf
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
> wrote:
>
> > Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> > any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> > should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> > especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> > take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> > > I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> > > consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because
> > it
> > > same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> > > website.
> > >
> > > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > >
> > > 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
> > >
> > >> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> > policy.
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
> > minatahats...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> > communities
> > >>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
> > Page
> > >> or
> > >>> Sitenotice?
> > >>>
> > >>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
> > >> Arabic
> > >>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> > >> Facebook
> > >>> as verified.
> > >>>
> > >>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a
> link
> > as
> > >>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook
> and
> > >>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
> > can
> > >> do
> > >>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> > >>> promotion to Facebook at <
> > >>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> > >>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> > >>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> >  . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you!
> > >>>
> > >>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > >>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > >>> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Vi to]

The two cases some referred to
https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Sitenotice and
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bản_mẫu:AdvancedSiteNotices

I don't like facebook at all but it's a de facto standard for
communication/outreaching. If "official" groups meet a series of
requisites. For example being managed by a sufficient number of trusted
users, respecting "something recalling" friendly space expectations, etc.

Vito

2018-03-01 3:01 GMT+01:00 Erik Moeller :

> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:31 PM, James Heilman  wrote:
> > I am not seeing any link to Facebook here?
> >
> > https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetm%C9%99_(roman)
>
> It's part of a banner, not sure the banner is set to 100%. It says:
>
> "Azərbaycanca Vikipediya ilə daim əlaqədə olmaq üçün bizi "Facebook"da
> izləyin!"
>
> in small font at the top, with a link to:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/azvikipediya
>
> Personally, I'd love to see WMF or a chapter set up a public Mastodon
> instance; the project has matured significantly since its first
> release and is at least a viable free/open alternative to the
> Twitter-ish forms of social networking. FB still has event management
> functions that are difficult to substitute, however.
>
> Erik
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Erik Moeller]

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:31 PM, James Heilman  wrote:
> I am not seeing any link to Facebook here?
>
> https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetm%C9%99_(roman)

It's part of a banner, not sure the banner is set to 100%. It says:

"Azərbaycanca Vikipediya ilə daim əlaqədə olmaq üçün bizi "Facebook"da izləyin!"

in small font at the top, with a link to:

https://www.facebook.com/azvikipediya

Personally, I'd love to see WMF or a chapter set up a public Mastodon
instance; the project has matured significantly since its first
release and is at least a viable free/open alternative to the
Twitter-ish forms of social networking. FB still has event management
functions that are difficult to substitute, however.

Erik

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[James Heilman]

I am not seeing any link to Facebook here?

https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetm%C9%99_(roman)

James

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 2:14 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> Ok, thank you. To my mind the main problem with that kind of practice
> pertain to the lake of Free-Libre-Archivable-Infrastructure-Rack (FLAIR)
> alternative along the proprietary platform. One problem with this platform,
> is that – as far as I know – we don't have comprehensive archives, let
> alone an archive policy. If tomorrow a proprietary platform decide to erase
> all data related to a group, as far as I know they can do so¹.
>
> Also, as I usually don't employ this services, so I don't know to which
> extend this groups can enforce a free license policy for everything
> published there. This plus terms of service, I have no idea how legal a
> problem it would be to dump this group discussions into a public archive.
>
> Anyway, would a FLAIR alternative be proposed, I would see no point in
> promoting the closed garden within Wikimedia projects, although bridges
> which automatically synchronize data flow on popular closed platforms would
> be still obviously important to maintain.
>
> Actually, even here I think that we should make a policy that submitting
> to our mailling list is conditioned by agreement that the posted material
> will be published under a free license.
>
> Cheers
>
> ¹ Let alone duty to keep a record of everything enforced by this or that
> law, the thing is that it can become offline instantly.
>
>
>
> Le 28/02/2018 à 21:32, Yaroslav Blanter a écrit :
>
>> At your service
>>
>> https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetmə_(roman)
>>
>> Cheers
>> Yaroslav
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:26 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
>> psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:
>>
>> Saluton,
>>>
>>> Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can
>>> judge this factually?
>>>
>>> Vikiame
>>>
>>> Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :
>>>
>>> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
 of
 Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
 kind
 of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing
 visitors
 to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
 i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.
 It
 is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
 explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
 general.

 As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
 Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement
 can
 be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
 group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach,
 awareness,
 and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.

 Cheers,

  Asaf

 On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
 wrote:

 Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of

> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>
>
>
> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
>
> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
>> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not?
>> Because
>>
>> it
>
> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
>> website.
>>
>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>
>> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
>>
>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
>> policy.
>> James
>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
>>>
>>> minatahats...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
>>> communities
>>>
>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
>>
>>> Page
>>>
>> or
>>
>>> Sitenotice?

 I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,

 Arabic
>>>
>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of

 Facebook
>>>
>>> as verified.

 All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a
 link

 as
>>>
>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook
>> and
>>
>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects

Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[mathieu stumpf guntz]

Ok, thank you. To my mind the main problem with that kind of practice 
pertain to the lake of Free-Libre-Archivable-Infrastructure-Rack (FLAIR) 
alternative along the proprietary platform. One problem with this 
platform, is that – as far as I know – we don't have comprehensive 
archives, let alone an archive policy. If tomorrow a proprietary 
platform decide to erase all data related to a group, as far as I know 
they can do so¹.


Also, as I usually don't employ this services, so I don't know to which 
extend this groups can enforce a free license policy for everything 
published there. This plus terms of service, I have no idea how legal a 
problem it would be to dump this group discussions into a public archive.


Anyway, would a FLAIR alternative be proposed, I would see no point in 
promoting the closed garden within Wikimedia projects, although bridges 
which automatically synchronize data flow on popular closed platforms 
would be still obviously important to maintain.


Actually, even here I think that we should make a policy that submitting 
to our mailling list is conditioned by agreement that the posted 
material will be published under a free license.


Cheers

¹ Let alone duty to keep a record of everything enforced by this or that 
law, the thing is that it can become offline instantly.



Le 28/02/2018 à 21:32, Yaroslav Blanter a écrit :

At your service

https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetmə_(roman)

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:26 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:


Saluton,

Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can
judge this factually?

Vikiame

Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :


Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
of
Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
kind
of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
general.

As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.

Cheers,

 Asaf

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
wrote:

Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of

any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:


I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because


it


same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
website.

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian

2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :

IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
policy.
James

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <


minatahats...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
communities

put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main

Page

or

Sitenotice?

I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,


Arabic


Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of


Facebook


as verified.

All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link


as

"official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and

violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects


can

do

that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
promotion to Facebook at <
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22


. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.


Thank you!

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Yaroslav Blanter]

At your service

https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeniyetmə_(roman)

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:26 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> Saluton,
>
> Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can
> judge this factually?
>
> Vikiame
>
> Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :
>
>> Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority
>> of
>> Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some
>> kind
>> of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
>> to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
>> i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
>> is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
>> explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
>> general.
>>
>> As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
>> Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
>> be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
>> group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
>> and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Asaf
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
>>> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
>>> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
>>> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
>>> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
>>>
 I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
 consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because

>>> it
>>>
 same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
 website.

 Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
 Vietnamese Wikimedian

 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :

 IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
>
 policy.
>>>
 James
>
> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
>
 minatahats...@gmail.com>
>>>
 wrote:
>
> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
>>
> communities
>>>
 put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
>>
> Page
>>>
 or
>
>> Sitenotice?
>>
>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>>
> Arabic
>
>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>>
> Facebook
>
>> as verified.
>>
>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
>>
> as
>>>
 "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
>>
> can
>>>
 do
>
>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>> promotion to Facebook at <
>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>>
>>> . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> ,
>> 
>>
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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> 
>
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

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>>>
 New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

>>> 
>>>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[mathieu stumpf guntz]

Le 28/02/2018 à 20:44, Dariusz Jemielniak a écrit :

My personal preference is to NOT link to Facebook. I think they use the
energy of people enough already.

However, I also think it is up to local communities to decide what works
for them best, there is no "one size fits all" here, IMHO
Sure, it's good to let them decide, and it's also good to give feed back 
of what see as possible issue or not especially when asked for such an 
opinion. :)




best,

DJ "pundit"

On Feb 28, 2018 20:06, "Jimmy Wales"  wrote:

Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:

I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
website.

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian

2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :


IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global

policy.

James

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune 
wrote:


Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia

communities

put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page

or

Sitenotice?

I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,

Arabic

Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of

Facebook

as verified.

All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link

as

"official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can

do

that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
promotion to Facebook at <
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22

. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.

Thank you!

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[mathieu stumpf guntz]

Saluton,

Can we actually have a link to a page with a concrete example so we can 
judge this factually?


Vikiame

Le 28/02/2018 à 20:43, Asaf Bartov a écrit :

Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority of
Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some kind
of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
general.

As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.

Cheers,

Asaf

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
wrote:


Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:

I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because

it

same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
website.

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian

2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :


IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global

policy.

James

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <

minatahats...@gmail.com>

wrote:


Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia

communities

put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main

Page

or

Sitenotice?

I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,

Arabic

Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of

Facebook

as verified.

All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link

as

"official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects

can

do

that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
promotion to Facebook at <
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22

. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.

Thank you!

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Dariusz Jemielniak]

My personal preference is to NOT link to Facebook. I think they use the
energy of people enough already.

However, I also think it is up to local communities to decide what works
for them best, there is no "one size fits all" here, IMHO

best,

DJ "pundit"

On Feb 28, 2018 20:06, "Jimmy Wales"  wrote:

Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> website.
>
> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>
> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
>
>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
policy.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
communities
>>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page
>> or
>>> Sitenotice?
>>>
>>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>> Arabic
>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>> Facebook
>>> as verified.
>>>
>>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
as
>>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can
>> do
>>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>>> promotion to Facebook at <
>>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
 . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Heilman
>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Asaf Bartov]

Facebook is a de-facto major venue of communication for a great majority of
Internet users.  Many communities, user groups, and chapters have some kind
of formal presence on Facebook -- "groups" or "pages".  Directing visitors
to your wiki to *your own wiki's* presence on this other major platform,
i.e. a direct link to your group/page on Facebook, is absolutely fine.  It
is *quite* different from, say, just linking to www.facebook.com or
explicitly endorsing it as a platform ("Join Facebook! It's great!") in
general.

As you note, a number of communities have done or are doing this.
Especially for smaller communities, the impact of such link placement can
be a significant driver of traffic (i.e. readers!) to your community
group/page on Facebook, which itself is important for outreach, awareness,
and volunteer recruitment, and therefore is mission-aligned.

Cheers,

   Asaf

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:06 AM Jimmy Wales 
wrote:

> Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
> any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
> should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
> especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
> take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.
>
>
>
> On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> > I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> > consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because
> it
> > same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> > website.
> >
> > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> >
> > 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
> >
> >> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global
> policy.
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune <
> minatahats...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia
> communities
> >>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main
> Page
> >> or
> >>> Sitenotice?
> >>>
> >>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
> >> Arabic
> >>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> >> Facebook
> >>> as verified.
> >>>
> >>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link
> as
> >>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
> >>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects
> can
> >> do
> >>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> >>> promotion to Facebook at <
> >>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> >>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> >>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
>  . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you!
> >>>
> >>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> >>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> >>> ___
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>> 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> James Heilman
> >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >> ___
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> >> 
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> 
> >
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Jimmy Wales]

Speaking only for myself, not as a member of the board, I don't know of
any legal or other reason why this should not be done.  I think we
should be very careful about links or appearance of endorsement
especially on article pages, but outreach to people in the world should
take place wherever we find a willing and useful audience.



On 2/28/18 6:29 AM, Minata Hatsune wrote:
> I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
> consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
> same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
> website.
> 
> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> 
> 2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :
> 
>> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global policy.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia communities
>>> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page
>> or
>>> Sitenotice?
>>>
>>> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
>> Arabic
>>> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
>> Facebook
>>> as verified.
>>>
>>> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link as
>>> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
>>> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can
>> do
>>> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
>>> promotion to Facebook at <
>>> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
>>> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
>>> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
 . If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
>>> Vietnamese Wikimedian
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Heilman
>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[Minata Hatsune]

I know it based on local consensus, but what I mean here is: those
consensus valid for WMF Term of Use and others policies or not? Because it
same with Wikipedia have linked with 3rd party, which is a commerical
website.

Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
Vietnamese Wikimedian

2018-02-28 18:52 GMT+09:00 James Heilman :

> IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global policy.
>
> James
>
> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia communities
> > put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page
> or
> > Sitenotice?
> >
> > I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia,
> Arabic
> > Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of
> Facebook
> > as verified.
> >
> > All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link as
> > "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
> > violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can
> do
> > that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> > promotion to Facebook at <
> > https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> > BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> > ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> > >. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> > Vietnamese Wikimedian
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About Facebook Linked in some of Wikimedia projects

[James Heilman]

IMO this is based on local community consensus. It is not a global policy.

James

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:14 AM, Minata Hatsune 
wrote:

> Hello, I have a question: is it legal and valid for Wikipedia communities
> put promotion links to their Facebook pages on public space as Main Page or
> Sitenotice?
>
> I see many of Wikimedia projects doing this, as Indonesia Wikipedia, Arabic
> Wikipedia, etc... Their Facebooks page also have blue checkmark of Facebook
> as verified.
>
> All what I concern is: Facebook is a commerical website, we put a link as
> "official" to them, will it same with Wikipedia biased for Facebook and
> violated the NPOV policy? And in finally: is it OK if other projects can do
> that? Vietnamese Wikipedia also have a discussion about sitenotice
> promotion to Facebook at <
> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%
> BA%ADn/Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_b%C3%A1_trang_Facebook_%22Wikipedia_
> ti%E1%BA%BFng_Vi%E1%BB%87t%22
> >. If this is OK, I think we have no reason to reject it.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Trần Nguyễn Minh Huy
> Vietnamese Wikimedian
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 




-- 
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MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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