Re: [Wikimedia-l] Innovation
Hoi, Collecting hundred ideas is indeed easy. I am sure that when I look back in my 3000+ blog posts[1] I will find hundreds of ideas easily. It is not the numbers that important, it is about the relevance of the ideas, some of mine are more relevant and others less so. Arguments that are relevant are: - technical difficulty - impact on our community - impact on the amount of work it generates - impact on the ability to write new articles - impact on the ability to involve new editors - ability to generate meaningful statistics The idea I proposed in this thread is likely to score really high except on the first argument. Would you for argument's sake walk through this idea with me and see your process in action. The purpose would be to shine some light in the black box. A fringe benefit could be to get a ball rolling. Thanks, GerardM [1] http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/ On 14 July 2015 at 21:44, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 2:52 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, Luis I like what I read. What you can do to make it even more pleasing is establish better how this will benefit projects other than Wikipedia. For instance I blogged abut red link functionality that will easily enhance the quality of links and red links in most project including Wikipedia because it allows for providing information where there is none yet to bothnot readers and editors AND maintains the functionality as if nothing has changed. I have no idea if the WMF would consider such an idea. My impression is that the WMF and its agenda is very much a black box. When you explain how an idea like this might get attention, it is less theoretical and it explains me and others if innovation in the WMF has a place and what that place is. Hi, Gerard- Thanks for asking. I think calling us a black box on code/ideas from outside WMF is pretty fair, though we're working on it. *tl;dr:* this is and will always be hard; I'd love to hear thoughts or examples on how we can do it better. Note that I have not formally shared this thinking with product/engineering, so none of this is a promise to do any specific thing mentioned below. I share it to show, in good faith, that we're thinking hard about the problem and what to do about it, and to make clear why it isn't easy to solve. *Ideas* We can easily collect thousands of ideas. (For example, just one person already had a list of 200+ sorted/filed bugs ready when we announced community tech.) Sorting, prioritizing, and implementing them takes work (which non-programmers sometimes underestimate ;) http://xkcd.com/1425/. Some things we'd need in order to handle incoming ideas well: - *Overall process/timeline* for product development, so that people know who to talk to when and through what channels. CE is working with product/engineering on this, but it will always be ongoing - there won't be one final process, since we'll learn and adjust as we go. - *Clear priorities* - if you have 1,000 ideas, you have to have priorities so that you can sort through them, and decide we'll do this one first because... This is hard - there are still some people who respond to VE by disagreeing that we should be trying to get more new editors! - *A friendly space https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Friendly_space understanding* - people often get emotional/angry when you tell them their idea is not a high priority, or hard to understand, etc. Dealing with that once is easy; dealing with it repeatedly over months or years is literally threatening to mental health. - *Bodies:* Reading and processing incoming ideas can take a *ton* of time from the people involved. Andre helps with this somewhat in his role as bugmaster, but we're asking a lot from product and engineering already, so there is tension between fix core platform issues and innovate within WMF and listen carefully to community innovation - there are just a limited number of hours in the day. We've always done parts of this informally (ideas come in through phabricator; I read your blog post when it was first posted via planet; etc.) but we need to make it more formal if we want to seriously scale it. We're in the *extremely* initial brainstorming phases of some of this right now, which Lila referred to in her email. *Code* Innovative *code *should be easier to deal with than ideas, because writing code is hard so there is less code than ideas. But you still have to be able to deal with: - *Usability:* the innovative idea might be generally great, but has it had evaluative design research https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Research/Design_Research? A/B testing of key concepts/language? Etc
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Innovation
Hoi, Luis I like what I read. What you can do to make it even more pleasing is establish better how this will benefit projects other than Wikipedia. For instance I blogged abut red link functionality that will easily enhance the quality of links and red links in most project including Wikipedia because it allows for providing information where there is none yet to bothnot readers and editors AND maintains the functionality as if nothing has changed. I have no idea if the WMF would consider such an idea. My impression is that the WMF and its agenda is very much a black box. When you explain how an idea like this might get attention, it is less theoretical and it explains me and others if innovation in the WMF has a place and what that place is. Thanks, GerardM http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2015/07/wikipedia-is-it-about-articles-or-about_10.html On 12 July 2015 at 05:03, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Rogol Domedonfors domedonf...@gmail.com wrote: The 2015 Call to Action identified the need to Support innovation new knowledge * Integrate, consolidate, and pause or stop stalled initiatives. * Create spaces for future community-led innovations and new knowledge creation. * Facilitate and support new models and structures for knowledge curation. * Strengthen partnerships with organizations that use or contribute free content, or are aligned with the WMF in the free-knowledge movement. Yet no-one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation in the community. I have started a Meta page for Innovation at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Innovation to stimulate discussions. I'm going to respond more on-wiki, but tl;dr: I disagree strongly that no one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation. https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Innovationtype=revisiondiff=12668489oldid=12623768 Constructive suggestions welcome - no one wants to see innovation more than me, trust me :) Luis -- Luis Villa Sr. Director of Community Engagement Wikimedia Foundation *Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Innovation
Gerard, Thanks for bringing this up. That is exactly what we are attempting to resolve with changes to product process and program strategies. We've made improvements with the public VE triage where anyone could submit a critical blocker, and discuss with the team on a weekly call. And we tested some ideas for prioritizing new features together early this year. This quarter we aim to propose and test a strawman approach that would be used by our newly forming community tech team to do some of what you are looking for. It is critical that it is not a black box decision-making process, because the work is meant to benefit our editors. Luis can tell you more how we are thinking to ensure that. The Engineering leaders are coming together to discuss this in depth in August, including ideas that came from our strategy and working together community consultations. Lila sent from mobile. please excuse typos. On Jul 12, 2015 2:53 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, Luis I like what I read. What you can do to make it even more pleasing is establish better how this will benefit projects other than Wikipedia. For instance I blogged abut red link functionality that will easily enhance the quality of links and red links in most project including Wikipedia because it allows for providing information where there is none yet to bothnot readers and editors AND maintains the functionality as if nothing has changed. I have no idea if the WMF would consider such an idea. My impression is that the WMF and its agenda is very much a black box. When you explain how an idea like this might get attention, it is less theoretical and it explains me and others if innovation in the WMF has a place and what that place is. Thanks, GerardM http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2015/07/wikipedia-is-it-about-articles-or-about_10.html On 12 July 2015 at 05:03, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Rogol Domedonfors domedonf...@gmail.com wrote: The 2015 Call to Action identified the need to Support innovation new knowledge * Integrate, consolidate, and pause or stop stalled initiatives. * Create spaces for future community-led innovations and new knowledge creation. * Facilitate and support new models and structures for knowledge curation. * Strengthen partnerships with organizations that use or contribute free content, or are aligned with the WMF in the free-knowledge movement. Yet no-one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation in the community. I have started a Meta page for Innovation at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Innovation to stimulate discussions. I'm going to respond more on-wiki, but tl;dr: I disagree strongly that no one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation. https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Innovationtype=revisiondiff=12668489oldid=12623768 Constructive suggestions welcome - no one wants to see innovation more than me, trust me :) Luis -- Luis Villa Sr. Director of Community Engagement Wikimedia Foundation *Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Innovation
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Rogol Domedonfors domedonf...@gmail.com wrote: The 2015 Call to Action identified the need to Support innovation new knowledge * Integrate, consolidate, and pause or stop stalled initiatives. * Create spaces for future community-led innovations and new knowledge creation. * Facilitate and support new models and structures for knowledge curation. * Strengthen partnerships with organizations that use or contribute free content, or are aligned with the WMF in the free-knowledge movement. Yet no-one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation in the community. I have started a Meta page for Innovation at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Innovation to stimulate discussions. I'm going to respond more on-wiki, but tl;dr: I disagree strongly that no one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation. https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Innovationtype=revisiondiff=12668489oldid=12623768 Constructive suggestions welcome - no one wants to see innovation more than me, trust me :) Luis -- Luis Villa Sr. Director of Community Engagement Wikimedia Foundation *Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Innovation
On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Rogol Domedonfors domedonf...@gmail.com wrote: The 2015 Call to Action identified the need to Support innovation new knowledge * Integrate, consolidate, and pause or stop stalled initiatives. * Create spaces for future community-led innovations and new knowledge creation. * Facilitate and support new models and structures for knowledge curation. * Strengthen partnerships with organizations that use or contribute free content, or are aligned with the WMF in the free-knowledge movement. Yet no-one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation in the community. I have started a Meta page for Innovation at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Innovation to stimulate discussions. I'm going to respond more on-wiki, but tl;dr: I disagree strongly that no one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation. Several groups are tasked with supporting community innovation: - For individual innovation, we've assessed hundreds of projects and funded dozens through the IEG grants https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG, and are hiring an additional organizer to help turbocharge this process even more. - For more established and successful innovations, we help with evaluation through L+E, further funding (through PEG), and mature programs support (both through programs we've brought in-house like Education and Wikipedia Library, and through FDC grants). As part of maturing my department, we're still discussing what a formal innovation pipeline might look like (should there be someone who owns this in its entirety, for example?) but it's completely wrong to say we're not already doing this. [I do think it's true that we're not particularly focused on creating new forms of things from scratch, as Rogol's talk page suggests, but my experience is that innovation is more effective when it comes from the community and is then supported by WMF, rather than the other way around.] Luis -- Luis Villa Sr. Director of Community Engagement Wikimedia Foundation *Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Innovation
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Rogol Domedonfors domedonf...@gmail.com wrote: The 2015 Call to Action identified the need to Support innovation new knowledge * Integrate, consolidate, and pause or stop stalled initiatives. * Create spaces for future community-led innovations and new knowledge creation. * Facilitate and support new models and structures for knowledge curation. * Strengthen partnerships with organizations that use or contribute free content, or are aligned with the WMF in the free-knowledge movement. Yet no-one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation in the community. I have started a Meta page for Innovation at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Innovation to stimulate discussions. I'm going to respond more on-wiki, but tl;dr: I disagree strongly that no one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation. Several groups are tasked with supporting community innovation: - For individual innovation, we've assessed hundreds of projects and funded dozens through the IEG grants https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG, and are hiring an additional organizer to help turbocharge this process even more. - For more established and successful innovations, we help with evaluation through L+E, further funding (through PEG), and mature programs support (both through programs we've brought in-house like Education and Wikipedia Library, and through FDC grants). As part of maturing my department, we're still discussing what a formal innovation pipeline might look like (should there be someone who owns this in its entirety, for example?) but it's completely wrong to say we're not already doing this. [I do think it's true that we're not particularly focused on creating new forms of things from scratch, as Rogol's talk page Sorry, Rogol's comments on his meta Innovation page. suggests, but my experience is that innovation is more effective when it comes from the community and is then supported by WMF, rather than the other way around.] I should also add that Advancement/Partnerships and Engineering also do innovation-related work - no one in either department has a title like Director of Innovation but both of them are working on things like partnerships with third-party data sources. Luis -- Luis Villa Sr. Director of Community Engagement Wikimedia Foundation *Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Innovation
I am glad to hear that Luis Villa's department has been thinking about Innovation. Rather than debate it here, perhaps the team would like to expose some of their work on Meta. However I might just note that it would probably have helped the community to help them if the team had exposed their work earlier. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Innovation
The 2015 Call to Action identified the need to Support innovation new knowledge * Integrate, consolidate, and pause or stop stalled initiatives. * Create spaces for future community-led innovations and new knowledge creation. * Facilitate and support new models and structures for knowledge curation. * Strengthen partnerships with organizations that use or contribute free content, or are aligned with the WMF in the free-knowledge movement. Yet no-one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation in the community. I have started a Meta page for Innovation at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Innovation to stimulate discussions. Rogol ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Innovation
That's a great start - thank you Rogol. Innovation often starts with making connections and learning from friends - perhaps this can be a collaborative page to share with partner groups like the OA, OSM, Mozilla and ArchiveTeam communities. On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Rogol Domedonfors domedonf...@gmail.com wrote: The 2015 Call to Action identified the need to Support innovation new knowledge * Integrate, consolidate, and pause or stop stalled initiatives. * Create spaces for future community-led innovations and new knowledge creation. * Facilitate and support new models and structures for knowledge curation. * Strengthen partnerships with organizations that use or contribute free content, or are aligned with the WMF in the free-knowledge movement. Yet no-one at WMF seems tasked with driving innovation in the community. I have started a Meta page for Innovation at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Innovation to stimulate discussions. Rogol ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
