Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Charles Andrès]

After carefully reading the WMF Board of Trustees letter and evaluating the 
first months of existence of the WCA, Wikimedia CH wants to make the following 
statement:
Wikimedia CH has been supporting the idea of a Chapters Council since its 
beginning. Our support is even stronger in these troubled times.
Since the Wikimedia Conference in Berlin, a lot of work has been accomplished 
to make the WCA a successful and helpful organization for the Wikimedia 
Chapters and the whole movement. It has to be said though that along with this 
hard work some aspects have been lost, like what our real priorities are.
For almost a year, Wikimedia Chapters have worked to build a strong 
organization, trying to prevent all possible problems from an administrative 
point of view. We believe it was important to think about all the 
organizational problems the WCA would have to face in order to reach its goals 
but by doing this we first lost the enthusiasm of lots of chapter 
representatives and then the dynamics to actually create a helpful structure 
for the movement.
Considering this, we, Wikimedia CH, encourage the Wikimedia Chapters to go back 
to the blue print and develop the list of tasks and goals the WCA should 
achieve: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Tasks.
It is important to build an association where all chapters are equal, to start 
over designing an association without focusing on needed staff, focusing 
instead on the expected outcomes. We realize that in order for an international 
organization like the WCA to exist in the long term, we will need paid 
employees to do the routine work, and to prevent volunteer burnout. We feel 
that the necessity of staff will arise by activities. Let's cross that bridge 
when we come to it.
To assure the equality of all chapters, we believe in a system where the 
chairman or president is a coordinator, not a decision-making power. Only this 
way we will ensure every chapter stays engaged with the Chapters Association.
We also believe the first task of the Chapters Association should be to produce 
a manifesto which defines the goals of the Chapters Association and how we 
think we will carry out our duties. This manifesto should also respect the 
expectations of movement actors like the project communities and the WMF Board 
of Trustees. Their expectations are important and require actions from the 
chapters. We are ready to face them.
For WMCH, --Charles Andrès (WMCH) 09:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Chapters_Association#Wikimedia_CH_statement

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"Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
www.wikimedia.ch
Skype: charles.andres.wmch
IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch

Le 5 févr. 2013 à 06:29, Kat Walsh  a écrit :

> Those of you who have been following the discussion of the Chapters
> Association may wish to read the statement written by the WMF board at our
> recent meeting, which is now posted on the Meta talk page for the
> Association; we encourage comments and discussion to take place on the wiki.
> 
> Link:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Chapters_Association#WMF_Board_letter_regarding_the_Chapters_Association
> 
> For the Wikimedia board,
> Kat Walsh
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> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Katie Chan]

On 05/02/2013 15:50, Nathan wrote:

I misspoke slightly; WCA fees were submitted in budget requests, but the
amounts were removed from the allocations themselves[1]. Sorry for the
inaccuracy there.


[1](
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/FDC_recommendations/2012-2013_round1#The_WCA_and_the_role_of_the_FDC
).


On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Nathan  wrote:


Presumably Round 1 disbursements have already been made, which means that
the chapters in receipt of funds can choose to spend them how they see fit.
But I don't recall seeing plans to donate money to the WCA in funding
requests to the FDC, and I suspect that since the WMF has chosen not to
recognize the WCA any chapter that donates a portion of their FDC funding
to the WCA will find it difficult to receive funds again in the current or
subsequent rounds. Nemo seems to be saying that is self-evident, but it
doesn't seem so clear cut to me.


FDC / WMF Grants is not the only source of chapter's funding for all 
chapters. (Not that I'm saying asking for 2 or 3 chapters who does have 
such alternative funding to pay for WCA is realistic.)


KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Deryck Chan]

On 5 February 2013 15:30, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> On 05.02.2013 16:18, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote:
>
>> there's nothing to pick up so far. The FDC has not held any meetings since
>> (obviously), and it generally operates within the mandate given by the
>> Board (which makes all decisions, FDC is only making recommendations). I
>>
>
> Strange world that of Wikimedia where everyone makes recommendations to
> someone and for something.
>
> Sorry, is it possible to identify in this "strange world" the key decision
> makers?
>
> Ilario
>
>
> Sue. [/me shuts up and hides]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Nathan]

I misspoke slightly; WCA fees were submitted in budget requests, but the
amounts were removed from the allocations themselves[1]. Sorry for the
inaccuracy there.


[1](
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/FDC_recommendations/2012-2013_round1#The_WCA_and_the_role_of_the_FDC
).


On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Nathan  wrote:

> Presumably Round 1 disbursements have already been made, which means that
> the chapters in receipt of funds can choose to spend them how they see fit.
> But I don't recall seeing plans to donate money to the WCA in funding
> requests to the FDC, and I suspect that since the WMF has chosen not to
> recognize the WCA any chapter that donates a portion of their FDC funding
> to the WCA will find it difficult to receive funds again in the current or
> subsequent rounds. Nemo seems to be saying that is self-evident, but it
> doesn't seem so clear cut to me.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Nathan]

Presumably Round 1 disbursements have already been made, which means that
the chapters in receipt of funds can choose to spend them how they see fit.
But I don't recall seeing plans to donate money to the WCA in funding
requests to the FDC, and I suspect that since the WMF has chosen not to
recognize the WCA any chapter that donates a portion of their FDC funding
to the WCA will find it difficult to receive funds again in the current or
subsequent rounds. Nemo seems to be saying that is self-evident, but it
doesn't seem so clear cut to me.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Dariusz Jemielniak, 05/02/2013 16:18:

... Is it fair to assume that the WMF will take a dim view of

FDC-allocated funds being transferred to the WCA? I'm sure no chapters
anticipating an FDC allocation would like to put that at risk.


Would someone sitting on the FDC like to pick this one up?



there's nothing to pick up so far. The FDC has not held any meetings since
(obviously), and it generally operates within the mandate given by the
Board (which makes all decisions, FDC is only making recommendations). I
myself can reveal that I personally believe that for the WCA, or any other
entity basing on similar principles, FDC-based funding model is much better
(in terms of accountability, transparency, and also sensible strategy
creation) than membership fees.


The WMF board decision prevents the FDC from even making such a 
suggestion. 

This is not what Nathan asked, though; Nathan, of course the FDC may 
change their mind, but as for the past the answer to your question is in 
their last recommendations to the board (as far as I can see).


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Dariusz Jemielniak]

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> Sorry, is it possible to identify in this "strange world" the key decision
> makers?
>
>
I don't understand what you mean. The Board is responsible for all
financial decisions of this sort also in terms of legal duty, it cannot
cede it to any other body. FDC is responsible for reviewing all proposals
and making recommendations to the Board, which makes the final decision - I
am unaware how it could be constructed otherwise, honestly.

best,

pundit
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Ilario Valdelli]

On 05.02.2013 16:18, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote:

there's nothing to pick up so far. The FDC has not held any meetings since
(obviously), and it generally operates within the mandate given by the
Board (which makes all decisions, FDC is only making recommendations). I


Strange world that of Wikimedia where everyone makes recommendations to 
someone and for something.


Sorry, is it possible to identify in this "strange world" the key 
decision makers?


Ilario

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Dariusz Jemielniak]

hi Fae,


> ... Is it fair to assume that the WMF will take a dim view of
> > FDC-allocated funds being transferred to the WCA? I'm sure no chapters
> > anticipating an FDC allocation would like to put that at risk.
>
> Would someone sitting on the FDC like to pick this one up?
>

there's nothing to pick up so far. The FDC has not held any meetings since
(obviously), and it generally operates within the mandate given by the
Board (which makes all decisions, FDC is only making recommendations). I
myself can reveal that I personally believe that for the WCA, or any other
entity basing on similar principles, FDC-based funding model is much better
(in terms of accountability, transparency, and also sensible strategy
creation) than membership fees.

best,

pundit
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Fae]

On 5 February 2013 15:05, Nathan  wrote:
> ... Is it fair to assume that the WMF will take a dim view of
> FDC-allocated funds being transferred to the WCA? I'm sure no chapters
> anticipating an FDC allocation would like to put that at risk.

Would someone sitting on the FDC like to pick this one up?

Thanks,
Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com http://j.mp/faewm
Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Nathan]

There are good and simple reasons for the WMF not "endorsing" the WCA. The
WCA is conceived as essentially an adversarial organization, meant to
compete with the WMF for resources - yet it's also apparently designed to
be dependent on the WMF for funding. So now the WCA can incorporate and
pursue its mission without that particular conflict of interest and with
clarity from all sides on the nature of its relationship with the WMF. All
in all, that might work out better for the WCA given its aims. Now it just
needs to find a way to raise money to fund its anticipated costs, including
hiring. Is it fair to assume that the WMF will take a dim view of
FDC-allocated funds being transferred to the WCA? I'm sure no chapters
anticipating an FDC allocation would like to put that at risk.

Nathan
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Fae]

The figures that James was going from here were rejected, this was
stated on the meta page in question, but I have made it a lot clearer
by repeating the word 'rejected' several times in upper-case.

There was a lengthy discussion about covering basic wind-up costs for
the SG recruitment rather than attempting yet again to produce a full
budget for the Association. This is mentioned in the resolutions on
meta, however I need to think about a diplomatic reply to the WMF
board letter rather than going on a tangent. I am sure someone can put
the right links against your question and you can see if our previous
discussion was sufficient, or not, in your view.

Cheers,
Fae
-- 
Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com
Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA
Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Thomas Dalton]

What budget are you looking at? I don't think one has been agreed yet...

On 5 February 2013 12:49, James Heilman  wrote:
> I am glad to see the WMF taking a slow and careful look at this. My
> primary question is why does this costing so much? More than half a
> million is a huge sum. And what exactly do we as a movement get from
> this? IMO we do not need more bureaucracy but less. A $100,000 for the
> secretary general, to run an organization that does not even exist
> yet? What we need is more tech people. While I know all those involved
> in this are good people why are they not doing this was volunteers? I
> donate around $250,000 worth of my time a year to the movement and
> still throw in some cash.
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[James Heilman]

I am glad to see the WMF taking a slow and careful look at this. My
primary question is why does this costing so much? More than half a
million is a huge sum. And what exactly do we as a movement get from
this? IMO we do not need more bureaucracy but less. A $100,000 for the
secretary general, to run an organization that does not even exist
yet? What we need is more tech people. While I know all those involved
in this are good people why are they not doing this was volunteers? I
donate around $250,000 worth of my time a year to the movement and
still throw in some cash.

-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Kat Walsh, 05/02/2013 06:29:

[...]we encourage comments and discussion to take place on the wiki.


In this spirit, the Meta page 
 
is still waiting for an update with a summary of the discussion/outcome 
so far.



Nemo

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[Wikimedia-l] Outcome of Wikimedia board discussion on the Chapters Association

[Kat Walsh]

Those of you who have been following the discussion of the Chapters
Association may wish to read the statement written by the WMF board at our
recent meeting, which is now posted on the Meta talk page for the
Association; we encourage comments and discussion to take place on the wiki.

Link:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Chapters_Association#WMF_Board_letter_regarding_the_Chapters_Association

For the Wikimedia board,
Kat Walsh
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