Re: [Wikimedia-l] guidance from Foundation leadership as to where to draw the line on policy requests?

2017-02-02 Thread MZMcBride 
James Salsman wrote:
>I can not in good conscience refrain from asking the Foundation management
>and Board to please take an exceptional, public, very visible stand in
>response to these extraordinarily exceptional circumstances.
>
>[...]
>
>If those of you who find my requests uncomfortable do not know how to
>program your email clients to hide them from you, I will gladly help you
>off-list.

Since you seem to need one, as a general rule, if neither the URL you're
sharing nor the contents it leads to contain the word "wiki", it's very
likely inappropriate for this mailing list. Your recent medium.com,
cnbc.com, and aol.com links all fail this test.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] guidance from Foundation leadership as to where to draw the line on policy requests?

2017-02-02 Thread Todd Allen 
So now I'm put into the awkward position of having to agree with
essentially everything the post said, and still have to disagree with it
having been made.

The WMF should not be taking political stances without input and consensus
from the community. Period. If it thought it needed to in this case, it
should have made that case, not just plowed ahead.

I think, since the post was made under the name of ED Katherine Maher, we
should see a response to these concerns from her.

Todd

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:48 PM, Bill Takatoshi 
wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Michael Peel  wrote:
> > Have you seen Katherine's statement at:
> > https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/01/30/knowledge-knows-no-boundaries/
>
> That statement is well worth reading. It says,
>
> "we believe in a world that encourages and protects the open exchange
> of ideas and information, community and culture; where people of every
> country, language, and culture can freely collaborate without
> restriction"
>
> "we will continue to stand up for our values of open discourse"
>
> +1
>
> The charter of this mailing list says "potential new Wikimedia
> projects and initiatives" are on topic here. There are no exceptions
> given.
>
> If some participants want to restrict what other participants can say
> because their ideas are political, or don't conform closely enough to
> what Wikimedia is already doing, or are repetitive, or annoying, or
> opposed to somebody else's politics, then a new mailing list should be
> created, Wikimedia-l-restricted, where the forbidden topics can be
> specified clearly and without ambiguity, and all of the people who
> want to restrict what other people can say can enjoy restricting each
> other.
>
> Good luck with that.
>
> The complaints about messages complaining about recent political
> events FAR MORE ANNOYING AND FAR MORE INAPPROPRIATE than the
> complaints about recent political events.
>
> -Will
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] guidance from Foundation leadership as to where to draw the line on policy requests?

2017-02-02 Thread Natacha Rault 
 I really want to thank the Wikimedia foundation and Katherine Maher for taking 
such a clear position on this matter. 

Kind ragards, 

Natacha Rault / Nattes à chat
> Le 2 févr. 2017 à 07:48, Bill Takatoshi  a écrit :
> 
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Michael Peel  wrote:
>> Have you seen Katherine's statement at:
>> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/01/30/knowledge-knows-no-boundaries/
> 
> That statement is well worth reading. It says,
> 
> "we believe in a world that encourages and protects the open exchange
> of ideas and information, community and culture; where people of every
> country, language, and culture can freely collaborate without
> restriction"
> 
> "we will continue to stand up for our values of open discourse"
> 
> +1
> 
> The charter of this mailing list says "potential new Wikimedia
> projects and initiatives" are on topic here. There are no exceptions
> given.
> 
> If some participants want to restrict what other participants can say
> because their ideas are political, or don't conform closely enough to
> what Wikimedia is already doing, or are repetitive, or annoying, or
> opposed to somebody else's politics, then a new mailing list should be
> created, Wikimedia-l-restricted, where the forbidden topics can be
> specified clearly and without ambiguity, and all of the people who
> want to restrict what other people can say can enjoy restricting each
> other.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> The complaints about messages complaining about recent political
> events FAR MORE ANNOYING AND FAR MORE INAPPROPRIATE than the
> complaints about recent political events.
> 
> -Will
> 
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] guidance from Foundation leadership as to where to draw the line on policy requests?

2017-02-02 Thread Bill Takatoshi 
On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Michael Peel  wrote:
> Have you seen Katherine's statement at:
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/01/30/knowledge-knows-no-boundaries/

That statement is well worth reading. It says,

"we believe in a world that encourages and protects the open exchange
of ideas and information, community and culture; where people of every
country, language, and culture can freely collaborate without
restriction"

"we will continue to stand up for our values of open discourse"

+1

The charter of this mailing list says "potential new Wikimedia
projects and initiatives" are on topic here. There are no exceptions
given.

If some participants want to restrict what other participants can say
because their ideas are political, or don't conform closely enough to
what Wikimedia is already doing, or are repetitive, or annoying, or
opposed to somebody else's politics, then a new mailing list should be
created, Wikimedia-l-restricted, where the forbidden topics can be
specified clearly and without ambiguity, and all of the people who
want to restrict what other people can say can enjoy restricting each
other.

Good luck with that.

The complaints about messages complaining about recent political
events FAR MORE ANNOYING AND FAR MORE INAPPROPRIATE than the
complaints about recent political events.

-Will

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] guidance from Foundation leadership as to where to draw the line on policy requests?

2017-02-01 Thread Pete Forsyth 
I strongly support keeping messages without a clear connection to
Wikimedia's purpose off this list -- especially when multiple people have
already objected to a certain topic.

I am as worried about world politics and the future as anybody on this
list, but Wikimedia has a fairly clear mission and purpose, and I do not
see how this topic fits here.

The best way IMO to work on these issues is to improve Wikimedia *content*
relating to, e.g., U.S./China relations. But one factor which may strongly
contribute to what's going on here, and which may be unknown to many on the
list: the originator of this thread (and I'm deliberately avoiding names)
has been banned from English Wikipedia for many years. Perhaps that's why
we keep getting messages here that might be more appropriate for article
talk pages.

But, in short, I concur with what's been said. We've heard enough about
this topic on this list. The passion is admirable; please direct it toward
a more effective venue.

-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] guidance from Foundation leadership as to where to draw the line on policy requests?

2017-02-01 Thread Michael Peel 
Have you seen Katherine's statement at:
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/01/30/knowledge-knows-no-boundaries/ 

?

I know gmail has an option to hide email threads, but it's not a standard email 
application feature, and it's not a good excuse for sending these repeated 
emails.

Thanks,
Mike

> On 1 Feb 2017, at 22:56, James Salsman  wrote:
> 
> I can not in good conscience refrain from asking the Foundation management
> and Board to please take an exceptional, public, very visible stand in
> response to these extraordinarily exceptional circumstances.
> 
> 
> Top officials from the US and China say war between the nations is "no
> doubt" a "reality."
> 
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/29/us-china-war-increasingly-a-reality-chinese-army-official-says.html
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/02/01/trumps-chief-strategist-steve-bannon-no-doubt-the-us-will-be/21704928/
> 
> 
> If those of you who find my requests uncomfortable do not know how to
> program your email clients to hide them from you, I will gladly help you
> off-list.
> ___
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 

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[Wikimedia-l] guidance from Foundation leadership as to where to draw the line on policy requests?

2017-02-01 Thread James Salsman 
I can not in good conscience refrain from asking the Foundation management
and Board to please take an exceptional, public, very visible stand in
response to these extraordinarily exceptional circumstances.


Top officials from the US and China say war between the nations is "no
doubt" a "reality."


http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/29/us-china-war-increasingly-a-reality-chinese-army-official-says.html



https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/02/01/trumps-chief-strategist-steve-bannon-no-doubt-the-us-will-be/21704928/


If those of you who find my requests uncomfortable do not know how to
program your email clients to hide them from you, I will gladly help you
off-list.
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