Re: [Wikimedia-l] edited mercilessly
... Oh, actually now I see at the top of the English Wikipedia source editing page: Work submitted to Wikipedia can be edited, used, and redistributed—by anyone—subject to certain terms and conditions. As far I recall, however, it was near the Save button, and it definitely said something more hard-core, like it will be edited mercilessly. And I can't find anything like that in the Visual Editor. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2014-12-03 15:08 GMT+02:00 Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il: Hi, I have a vague recollection that when I started editing the English Wikipedia ten years ago, there was a notice near the Save button, which said something like this: Your changes will be edited mercilessly. I remember similar notices in other languages as well, though even more vaguely. I don't see it now. I checked English, Hebrew and Russian. Does anybody know why was it removed? Did the editors communities just decide independently to remove it for whatever reason? If it was, I'd love to see links to discussions if anybody has them. Or was it a design decision by the Foundation? Thanks! -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] edited mercilessly
I remember edited mercilessly as well... The current message is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Editpage-head-copy-warn and dates from 2012. I wonder if this was changed when the ToU came in? An unscientific hint is that posters to the Wikimedia mailing lists more or less stopped using mercilessly in 2009 ;-) Andrew. On 3 December 2014 at 13:11, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: ... Oh, actually now I see at the top of the English Wikipedia source editing page: Work submitted to Wikipedia can be edited, used, and redistributed—by anyone—subject to certain terms and conditions. As far I recall, however, it was near the Save button, and it definitely said something more hard-core, like it will be edited mercilessly. And I can't find anything like that in the Visual Editor. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2014-12-03 15:08 GMT+02:00 Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il: Hi, I have a vague recollection that when I started editing the English Wikipedia ten years ago, there was a notice near the Save button, which said something like this: Your changes will be edited mercilessly. I remember similar notices in other languages as well, though even more vaguely. I don't see it now. I checked English, Hebrew and Russian. Does anybody know why was it removed? Did the editors communities just decide independently to remove it for whatever reason? If it was, I'd love to see links to discussions if anybody has them. Or was it a design decision by the Foundation? Thanks! -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] edited mercilessly
Hello, This text has been a part of the five pillars for a long time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars Wikipedia is free content that anyone can use, edit, and distribute: Since all editors freely license their work to the public, no editor owns an article and any contributions can and will be mercilessly edited and redistributed. Respect copyright laws, and never plagiarize from sources. Borrowing non-free media is sometimes allowed as fair use, but strive to find free alternatives first. yours, On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 8:15 AM, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: I remember edited mercilessly as well... The current message is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Editpage-head-copy-warn and dates from 2012. I wonder if this was changed when the ToU came in? An unscientific hint is that posters to the Wikimedia mailing lists more or less stopped using mercilessly in 2009 ;-) Andrew. On 3 December 2014 at 13:11, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: ... Oh, actually now I see at the top of the English Wikipedia source editing page: Work submitted to Wikipedia can be edited, used, and redistributed—by anyone—subject to certain terms and conditions. As far I recall, however, it was near the Save button, and it definitely said something more hard-core, like it will be edited mercilessly. And I can't find anything like that in the Visual Editor. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2014-12-03 15:08 GMT+02:00 Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il : Hi, I have a vague recollection that when I started editing the English Wikipedia ten years ago, there was a notice near the Save button, which said something like this: Your changes will be edited mercilessly. I remember similar notices in other languages as well, though even more vaguely. I don't see it now. I checked English, Hebrew and Russian. Does anybody know why was it removed? Did the editors communities just decide independently to remove it for whatever reason? If it was, I'd love to see links to discussions if anybody has them. Or was it a design decision by the Foundation? Thanks! -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Lane Rasberry user:bluerasberry on Wikipedia 206.801.0814 l...@bluerasberry.com ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] edited mercilessly
The merciless was used in the standardised messages decided by referendum in 2009: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Licensing_update#Proposed_terms_of_use It got lost in the implementation in 2009: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Licensing_update/Implementation#Terms_for_edit_screen And then the message was removed without many ceremonies in 2012: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T44491 That said, many wikis (and sometimes even the WMF) edit or replace the global messaging (wikimedia-copyrightwarning and formerly also wikimedia-editpage-tos-summary) in ways which don't comply with global consensus. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] edited mercilessly
On 3 December 2014 at 05:08, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Hi, I have a vague recollection that when I started editing the English Wikipedia ten years ago, there was a notice near the Save button, which said something like this: Your changes will be edited mercilessly. I remember similar notices in other languages as well, though even more vaguely. I don't see it now. I checked English, Hebrew and Russian. Does anybody know why was it removed? Did the editors communities just decide independently to remove it for whatever reason? If it was, I'd love to see links to discussions if anybody has them. Or was it a design decision by the Foundation? The messages in question are copyrightwarning https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/MW/browse/master/languages/i18n/en.json;2e2958d6d9107fcc479183eaf2dc86247f87072e$650 and copyrightwarning2 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/MW/browse/master/languages/i18n/en.json;2e2958d6d9107fcc479183eaf2dc86247f87072e$651 in MediaWiki core, which still use this term. However, as Nemo says, Wikimedia cluster wikis use a different message provided by the WikimediaMessages extension that doesn't currently include the term. I imagine it fell foul of the work to make the language simple and easy to understand when those were written. J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, Editing Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] edited mercilessly
It's still on the WIkimedia UK wiki, but only visible when you are in the edit window (as below). I always thought it was really harsh and unwelcoming. Please note that all contributions to Wikimedia UK are considered to be released under the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike (see Wikimedia:Copyrights https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Wikimedia:Copyrights for details). If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here. You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource. *Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!* On 3 December 2014 at 16:42, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: The merciless was used in the standardised messages decided by referendum in 2009: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Licensing_update# Proposed_terms_of_use It got lost in the implementation in 2009: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Licensing_update/Implementation#Terms_for_edit_screen And then the message was removed without many ceremonies in 2012: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T44491 That said, many wikis (and sometimes even the WMF) edit or replace the global messaging (wikimedia-copyrightwarning and formerly also wikimedia-editpage-tos-summary) in ways which don't comply with global consensus. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Stevie Benton Head of External Relations Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] edited mercilessly
Thanks Nemo and James. In case you haven't guessed already, I am wondering whether having this message is a good idea or a bad idea. I don't really know and I can only make some guesses. I knew what a wiki was when I first encountered Wikipedia in 2004. Because of this, the edited mercilessly part made sense to me, but I was still happy to see that message - it helped me know that I indeed understand what wiki means. I presume that a lot of other people didn't know what a wiki is back then, because Wikipedia was the first wiki that became so popular, and that's probably why the message was put there. In 2014, Wikipedia is still more popular than any other wiki, by far. I (further) presume that lot of people today don't know what a wiki actually is, and just think that it's the shorter name of that website that keeps popping up when they google for stuff. If this is true, then when new users try to join, they are likely not to fully understand that their contributions will be edited mercilessly. So what I'm wondering about is: Should that message be put back there to set the right expectations? Should it be put back only on article creation, to make sure that people don't think that they own the articles they are creating? Should it not be put back there because people just need to be smart enough to figure out for themselves that if they can edit an article, everybody else can, too? Should it not be put back there because it would create clutter? Should it not be put back there because the word mercilessly is quite unpleasant? Should any other message be put instead? I honestly don't know; I'm just throwing ideas around, and your input is welcome. As always, I'd be especially happy to hear opinions not just from the English Wikipedia. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2014-12-03 19:01 GMT+02:00 James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org: On 3 December 2014 at 05:08, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Hi, I have a vague recollection that when I started editing the English Wikipedia ten years ago, there was a notice near the Save button, which said something like this: Your changes will be edited mercilessly. I remember similar notices in other languages as well, though even more vaguely. I don't see it now. I checked English, Hebrew and Russian. Does anybody know why was it removed? Did the editors communities just decide independently to remove it for whatever reason? If it was, I'd love to see links to discussions if anybody has them. Or was it a design decision by the Foundation? The messages in question are copyrightwarning https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/MW/browse/master/languages/i18n/en.json;2e2958d6d9107fcc479183eaf2dc86247f87072e$650 and copyrightwarning2 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/MW/browse/master/languages/i18n/en.json;2e2958d6d9107fcc479183eaf2dc86247f87072e$651 in MediaWiki core, which still use this term. However, as Nemo says, Wikimedia cluster wikis use a different message provided by the WikimediaMessages extension that doesn't currently include the term. I imagine it fell foul of the work to make the language simple and easy to understand when those were written. J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, Editing Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] edited mercilessly
Lane Rasberry wrote: This text has been a part of the five pillars for a long time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars Nice find. For the curious, the phrase was added to the Five pillars page in May 2005, seemingly copied from the user interface: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=14525251oldid=14496130. The phrase was introduced to the user interface of the (later to be known as MediaWiki) software in July 2002, it seems: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/618. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
