Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Commons-l] TPP - copyright

[Ivan Martínez]

Hi folks, following this conversation, Creative Commons published this post
yesterday.

https://creativecommons.org/campaigns/trans-pacific-partnership-would-harm-user-rights-and-the-commons

2015-11-07 2:15 GMT-06:00 Ivan Martínez :

> Hi, there's a lot of review and analyze about TPP because not only in the
> States we will have potential strong legal modifications. In Wikimedia
> Mexico we are aware since one year ago at least following the analysis of
> other NGOs devoted to internet freedom and copyright which can be a
> potential risk to Wikimedia mission.
>
> The main issue in the next days is that the extension of the revealed text
> needs to have much analysis to have clear points that can be potential
> risks to our mission.
>
> Thanks,
>
> 2015-11-07 1:16 GMT-06:00 Gergő Tisza :
>
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Ryan Kaldari 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I don't see anything in the TPP requiring retroactive application of
>> > copyright terms. We'll have to wait and see how the various countries
>> > choose to apply the new terms. Applying terms retroactively is uncommon,
>> > but possible. We also have no idea when these countries are actually
>> going
>> > to apply the new terms.
>> >
>>
>> I don't think it's uncommon, the US is the odd one out on this (or almost
>> out, since in the end it did apply Berne  terms retroactively). For
>> example
>> the EU Copyright Directive prescribes a death + 70 copyright term so
>> countries joining the EU restore copyright to all works for which they had
>> shorter protection. International copyright treaties tend to be
>> retroactive
>> by default; "works shall be protected for X years after the death of the
>> author" applies to all works, whether they are in the public domain
>> currently or not.
>>
>> From the regulator's point of view this is reasonable; the point of these
>> treaties is harmonization of the law, and harmonizing the protection term
>> of one group of works but leaving another group protected in some
>> countries
>> and unprotected in others doesn't really make sense. The alternative would
>> be a rule of the shorter term, but the US does not have that, and they are
>> the driving force behind TPP, so...
>> ___
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>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Iván Martínez*
>
>
> *Presidente - Wikimedia México A.C.User:ProtoplasmaKid @protoplasmakid*
>
> Hemos creado la más grande colección de conocimiento compartido. Ayuda a
> proteger a Wikipedia, dona ahora:
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
>



-- 
*Iván Martínez*


*Presidente - Wikimedia México A.C.User:ProtoplasmaKid @protoplasmakid*

Hemos creado la más grande colección de conocimiento compartido. Ayuda a
proteger a Wikipedia, dona ahora:
https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Commons-l] TPP - copyright

[Ivan Martínez]

Hi, there's a lot of review and analyze about TPP because not only in the
States we will have potential strong legal modifications. In Wikimedia
Mexico we are aware since one year ago at least following the analysis of
other NGOs devoted to internet freedom and copyright which can be a
potential risk to Wikimedia mission.

The main issue in the next days is that the extension of the revealed text
needs to have much analysis to have clear points that can be potential
risks to our mission.

Thanks,

2015-11-07 1:16 GMT-06:00 Gergő Tisza :

> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Ryan Kaldari 
> wrote:
>
> > I don't see anything in the TPP requiring retroactive application of
> > copyright terms. We'll have to wait and see how the various countries
> > choose to apply the new terms. Applying terms retroactively is uncommon,
> > but possible. We also have no idea when these countries are actually
> going
> > to apply the new terms.
> >
>
> I don't think it's uncommon, the US is the odd one out on this (or almost
> out, since in the end it did apply Berne  terms retroactively). For example
> the EU Copyright Directive prescribes a death + 70 copyright term so
> countries joining the EU restore copyright to all works for which they had
> shorter protection. International copyright treaties tend to be retroactive
> by default; "works shall be protected for X years after the death of the
> author" applies to all works, whether they are in the public domain
> currently or not.
>
> From the regulator's point of view this is reasonable; the point of these
> treaties is harmonization of the law, and harmonizing the protection term
> of one group of works but leaving another group protected in some countries
> and unprotected in others doesn't really make sense. The alternative would
> be a rule of the shorter term, but the US does not have that, and they are
> the driving force behind TPP, so...
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



-- 
*Iván Martínez*


*Presidente - Wikimedia México A.C.User:ProtoplasmaKid @protoplasmakid*

Hemos creado la más grande colección de conocimiento compartido. Ayuda a
proteger a Wikipedia, dona ahora:
https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Commons-l] TPP - copyright

[Isaac David]

Le ven. 6 nov. 2015 à 11:22, Ryan Kaldari  a 
écrit :

Applying terms retroactively is uncommon, but possible.


Already happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Commons-l] TPP - copyright

[Gergő Tisza]

On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Ryan Kaldari  wrote:

> I don't see anything in the TPP requiring retroactive application of
> copyright terms. We'll have to wait and see how the various countries
> choose to apply the new terms. Applying terms retroactively is uncommon,
> but possible. We also have no idea when these countries are actually going
> to apply the new terms.
>

I don't think it's uncommon, the US is the odd one out on this (or almost
out, since in the end it did apply Berne  terms retroactively). For example
the EU Copyright Directive prescribes a death + 70 copyright term so
countries joining the EU restore copyright to all works for which they had
shorter protection. International copyright treaties tend to be retroactive
by default; "works shall be protected for X years after the death of the
author" applies to all works, whether they are in the public domain
currently or not.

From the regulator's point of view this is reasonable; the point of these
treaties is harmonization of the law, and harmonizing the protection term
of one group of works but leaving another group protected in some countries
and unprotected in others doesn't really make sense. The alternative would
be a rule of the shorter term, but the US does not have that, and they are
the driving force behind TPP, so...
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Commons-l] TPP - copyright

[Ryan Kaldari]

I don't see anything in the TPP requiring retroactive application of
copyright terms. We'll have to wait and see how the various countries
choose to apply the new terms. Applying terms retroactively is uncommon,
but possible. We also have no idea when these countries are actually going
to apply the new terms. It took the UK 100 years to apply the terms of the
Berne Convention after signing it. If a country proposes a retroactive
copyright extension as part of their compliance legislation, it is still
possible to fight the retroactive provision (regardless of what BoingBoing
says). In other words, it's way too early to start talking about deleting
files from Commons. Even the URAA took 18 years from the time it was passed
until Commons had to actually deal with it (due to the *Golan v. Holder*
decision).

On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 5:22 AM, Gnangarra  wrote:

> We have a new problem to face in the coming months assuming countries
> ratify the Trans Pacific Partnership
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership
>
> The text of the agreement has been released in the last 24 hours, early
> commentary is indicating that copyright changes will occur restoring
> copyright to some works that are currently PD.
> http://boingboing.net/2015/11/06/how-tpp-will-clobber-canadas.html
>
> According reports this will affect media sourced in Canada where copyright
> will be extended from 50-70 years meaning that image sin this period may
> need to be deleted both on commons and on en:wp, Australian sourced images
> face a similar issue as will other countries.
>
> Rather than a piece meal commons copyright battle, and a duplicate one on
> en:wp being lead by  unqualified wikilawyers resulting in project
> discrepancies. I'm calling on the community to take  more holistic approach
> and request that the WMF ask for its legal eagles to give an edict we can
> take or communities to explain what will happen in each jurisdiction as the
> TPP is ratified.
>
> This will also give us guidance as to how Affiliates can approach and
> support activities locally  to ensure material that is already freely
> available remains so.
>
>
>
> --
> G
> ​ideon
>
> President Wikimedia Australia
> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>
>
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